Role of government: what should it be?
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It’s official: when we choose a President this fall, we will also
choose a theory on the role of government. The putative President and
the Mayor of New York both said it this week. Voters need to hear and
understand exactly what they said and what this means.
What Obama and Bloomberg said
Yesterday, Barack H. Obama traveled to Cleveland, Ohio. He gave a
rambling and almost petulant speech in this historic “battleground”
State. Mostly he said, “It’s all Bush’s fault,” or something amounting
to that. (Maybe he had read this Gallup Poll. Katie Pavlich has some other numbers that should set that record straight.)
But Obama said one thing worth hearing. The New York Times had two reporters on the ground to hear it:
Your vote will finally determine the path that we take as a nation — not just tomorrow, but for years to come.
In other words, Obama said that you will vote for more than a
President (or to be technical, Presidential Electors). You will vote for
a role of government. You will vote whether government will be your
nanny or your monitor and arbiter.
If you doubt that, Mayor Mike Bloomberg should remove that doubt.
Last week he made a rule that no convenience store, movie candy counter,
etc., could sell you a drink larger than 16 ounces. Soft drink bottlers
then took out a full page ad in the Times showing Bloomberg as “The Nanny.” (Or maybe as the title character in the Robin Williams movie Mrs. Doubtfire.)
What’s next? Limits on the width of a pizza slice, size of a hamburger or amount of cream cheese on your bagel?
Actually, popcorn and milkshakes are next. But Bloomberg brazenly said that he was only doing his job!
If [the role of government] isn’t to improve the health and longevity of its citizens, I don’t know what [that role] is.
The mayor then contradicted himself. He told his TV host that he
didn’t mean to tell people what to do. But he and his Board of Health
are doing just that!
Excuse me, Mr. (putative) President. Excuse me, Mr. Mayor. Obama is half right, and Bloomberg is totally wrong.
The proper role of government
The US Constitution. Photo: National Archives of the United States
To “improve the health and [long life] of its citizens” (and lawful residents) is not the role of government. The Framers of the Constitution
never saw it that way. Nor is the role of government to guarantee you
an income, no matter what Richard A. Cloward and Frances Fox Piven said 56 years ago.
The role of government is to manage force. This role derives from a basic social principle: so long as humans live together, no one may start using force against another. But humans will
start using force, unless some other humans stop them, or deal with
them when they do. That is the proper role of government. That is why we
have government.
But the Progressive movement began with a new view of the role of government. They
first said that government must “improve the health and [long life]” of
those who live under it. And they didn’t stay with the Democratic
Party, or even start there. The first Progressive President was Theodore Roosevelt, a Republican.
So what does the role of government break down to? Three things:
Police
Military
Law courts
And that's it.
But what say you? Is Mayor Bloomberg right to say that the role of government is to "improve" your life, whether you think it could stand improving (and in that way) or not? Or do you believe, as I do, that your life is your own, and government's job is not to interfere with it, but instead to stop others from interfering?
Read More: http://www.conservativenewsandviews.com/2012/06/15...
Top Opinion
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Kimmel 2012/06/15 18:21:43To protect your rights from wrongful use of force.
The 0bie care ruling was no mistake. Take from it and realize that you are at best living in the belly of the nanny state or at worst a Marxist system of top down distributive governance. this happened because people wanted more without working for more and now they have it.
The constitution is now basically null and void. You can argue any amendment you want and the govt can counter argue and win because of the size of their, political, legal, and economic reach. Those with deep pockets usually win most if not all legal arguments.
You, the individual, have no argument because your reps have no argument because your reps are part of the system that is the problem and will not, I repeat, will not truly listen to you the individual because you the individual no longer exists as a power broker in their world.
Your only representation is only through statistical poll numbers and that is what drives policy if at all. Also the polls drive money contributions to politicians, not an individuals wishes or desires for a better non intrusive govt.
Good luck comrades.
Provide for defense.
Government has been overreaching for a couple hundred years because folks get lazy.
Not Just War... War Only When Necessary- and no draft dodgers should get to send anyone into to war. (President Obama was 9yo when the Vietnam war was under way )
This is another anti Obama reactionary post designed as with the choose of answers to drive a poll to get the results the poster wants.
-To protect your rights from wrongful use of force.
-Undecided
-To improve your life, by force if necessary. (Really?) why not another option just
-“To improve your life”
Thomas Jefferson, in a 1789 letter to James Madison, once said that every constitution “naturally expires at the end of 19 years” because “the earth belongs always to the living generation.”
Conservatives Cherry pick the Founder like they cherry pick there Big Book of Fairy Tails (Bible) if ether does not fit there narrow close mined views they ignore it, the founder were great men but men and the constitution has flaws and gaping holes for the modern world.
Why do you think they put the ability to amend it ? What made them great was that they knew they did not know every thing!
Our incredible Constitution has run its course…too many people have learned how to game it…it needs to be revised and updated with modern thinking and languag...
&
Not Just War... War Only When Necessary- and no draft dodgers should get to send anyone into to war. (President Obama was 9yo when the Vietnam war was under way )
This is another anti Obama reactionary post designed as with the choose of answers to drive a poll to get the results the poster wants.
-To protect your rights from wrongful use of force.
-Undecided
-To improve your life, by force if necessary. (Really?) why not another option just
-“To improve your life”
Thomas Jefferson, in a 1789 letter to James Madison, once said that every constitution “naturally expires at the end of 19 years” because “the earth belongs always to the living generation.”
Conservatives Cherry pick the Founder like they cherry pick there Big Book of Fairy Tails (Bible) if ether does not fit there narrow close mined views they ignore it, the founder were great men but men and the constitution has flaws and gaping holes for the modern world.
Why do you think they put the ability to amend it ? What made them great was that they knew they did not know every thing!
Our incredible Constitution has run its course…too many people have learned how to game it…it needs to be revised and updated with modern thinking and language. It is time for Version 2.0 to include term limits, balanced budget with emergency provisions, safety net designed to give a helping hand with a real path to self reliance, real freedom for all that includes gay people (Being gay dose not infringe on people who have an imaginary friend [God]) Freedom of Religion is also Freedom from Religion, lets keep Religion in there TAX EXEMPT monuments (Churches, Synagogues, Mosques, Temples and Scientology store fronts) to an imaginary entity.), No Electoral College, Elections without any Privet or Corporate money the way most modern Democracy’s do. and Real and Sane Gun Control. And Never- Ever should a Corporation have more power or influence then “a Government For and By The People”.
I will not argue about the moronic fallacy that a corporation is a person.
Being a 'person' occurs by virtue of being born of two members of the species: Homo sapiens! That is not the case with a corporation, any corporation, a corporation of any type! A corporation is, by definition, a charter, filed with a Secretary of State (most often Delaware where they can pay less taxes and have no responsibility to anyone); the charter outlines the corporate structure, lists the major officers and describes the 'type' of 'incorporation in legal terms. It is a NOT a person but simply a contract listing the major stockholders, summarizing the management and delegating various responsibilities. Certain accounting conventions follow but, certainly, no procedure has the God-like power to create 'persons' with a ledger book! No such combination of debits and credits has ever breathed life into inanimate objects and, by doing so, make 'people' of them! And I never in 22years in the military did I get an order to defend a corporation and if I did receive an order to defend a corporation I would resigned my commission, I an and was willing to give my life for People. But When a corporation is given birth drop me a line.
To address “Sane Gun Control”, I am not anti Gun I am anti unlimited unregulated weapons being sold like buying a loaf of bread. I own hunting riffles and shot guns. I find no need for a Hand Gun, and if I became mentally unfit I should Not be able to own a Weapons. Why does the NRA fight to keep guns in the hands of people who are mental unbalanced and criminals? Why do they fight gun locks? Why do they go ageist background checks? I once was a member of the NRA but they are now just a another scum bag lobby that does not have any concern for the safety of our children.
BTW: If you think having a gun is going to stop a Government with the Most Powerful Military in the World you’re insane!
In our new Constitution States should Never trump the Federal Government. The United States won WW1 & WW2 , Freed the Slaves, gave Woman the right to vote, Civil Rights, First to the Moon, Toppled Communism (It was not only Reagan, every President starting with Truman fought the Communist Fact!) oops sorry Facts, it was not Alabama, New York, California, Idaho or Massachusetts it was the United States that did all that.
A Confederacy has been tried twice in this country and it failed each time. (Confederacy is a system with a week central government) How do we fight war and protect our self’s with out a Federal Government how do we proved a real retirement system without a federal government. (Privet business has no real retirement system any more. a 401K that are tied to the criminals on wall street what a joke, just ask anyone who planed on retiring in 2008 2009 or 2010 but were wiped out and now have to work till hey die. The Koch bros and Apple love that more slaves ) The 401(k) doesn’t work on a large scale because it exposes nearly every participant to market risk that can’t be fully hedged. No one can consistently predict market cycles and less than half of employers offer personal planning services that offer meaningful guidance to protect you from the pitfalls of market investigate. If you retire on a down month your retirement is going to be cat food and collecting can for the rebate.
A generation ago, retirement investing didn’t worry Americans because most had a defined-benefit pension plan that pooled investments by professional outside managers to ensure a fixed payment based on salary and years of service. Now defined-contribution plans like 401(k)s, 403(b)s and 457 plans are the dominant form of employer-sponsored programs. They were never meant to be mainstream pensions. Wall Street is a gamble and is legalized criminality. Wall Street took the entire world to the brink and no one went to jail? If you or I did what they did we would be put under the prison but Republicans just gave them a bailout and gave the finger to the rest of America (Bush was responsible for the bail out of the banks FACT oops there I go again pesky inconvenient facts)
With A Confederacy How do keep states that want to discriminate or commit treason (secession) polluting air and water. A Confederacy sound good on Paper they have never worked.. Ever... just ask any a-hole with a Confederate flag how that whole thing worked out.
I am a proud American that has served my country for 22years and in the First Gulf War and and would do it again. I served under the Good Bush, Not the draft dogging Bush that took this county in to an unpaid for war attacking a country (Iraq) that had nothing to do with 9-11 and had NO weapons of mass destruction (Fact) and he knew it. Oh Ya I forgot No one is allowed to talk about the past, unless it's about His Royal Highness R. Reagan who raised taxes.
I will digress for a minute... As President Reagan, According to a Treasury Department analysis, He raised taxes by close to one percent of GDP, equivalent to $150 billion per year today, and was probably the largest peacetime tax increase in American history and as Governor of California imposed the highest tax increases in California history- $1 billion per year tax increase, equivalent to a $17 billion tax increase today- FACT and yes in 1981 he did Cut Taxes “FOR THE TOP EARNER ONLY” I am still waiting to be tricked on! Total cumulative Tax Increases 132.7 Billion dollars all on the Middle Class and Low-Income earners. ( Reagan did a despicable thing for the fist time he made waiter and waitresses pay tax on there tips. Restaurants pay the lowest wages and tip are how servers survive. But some day a mythical trickle will kick in) Another thing he cut was the GI bill I know this because I was serving in the 80's and he cut our GI bill benefits. I guess Republicans think bumper stickers and yellow ribbons are enough to support the troops. Stick you're yellow ribbons up you're a*s give us what we were promised. ..and Reagan begged to get deferred from combat in to make crappy movies for the war effort (coward)...Oh ya Sorry I forgot Conservatives are Anti-Fact
We live under a Constitution which guarantees our right to express our opinions. I am expressing mine and you need to express yours. When I stop and think about it, why shouldn’t any person on Earth be able to express their opinion? Someone out there, somewhere else on Earth, may have an idea that would be very helpful. In the end, the Citizens of the United States still have the final vote on their destiny. Until “CITIZEN UNITED” allows our election be decided by billionaires-They have a right to there voice also but not the right to buy a politician and an election. I don’t think the founders wanted an aristocracy controlling our destiny as it is becoming under “CITZENS UNITED”.)
At one time country’s when writing there constitutions used the US constitution as a model, but no more. Check out this article:
(http://www.nytimes.com/2012/...
Our constitution has served use well but it was not written by an supreme being but slave holders that saw African Americans woman and ..well anyone but rich white men as property or not worthy of even voting. (in the original constitution only land owners could vote) Now it is just a political pawn used by a radical supremacy court placing presidents in office over the will of the people and deciding to open the flood gates of corporate money and billionaires stealing elections. And I bet they want Nothing for there Billions there just Givers. LMAO
Sorry for long post but the one liners and talking points with no bases in FACT gets old. Everyone entitled to there opinion, but occasionally lets back it up with facts. Now let the insane crazy attacks begin....and that is fine but back it up with facts and references
Mabe our new constitution shhould have FDR's Second Bill of Rights was a list of rights proposed by Franklin D. Roosevelt, during his State of the Union Address on January 11, 1944. In his address Roosevelt suggested that the nation had come to recognize, and should now implement, a second "bill of rights". Roosevelt's argument was that the "political rights" guaranteed by the constitution and the Bill of Rights had "proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness." Roosevelt's remedy was to declare an "economic bill of rights" which would guarantee:
-Employment, with a living wage
-Freedom from unfair competition and monopolies
-Housing
-Medical care/ universal heathcare
-Education
-Social security
Sources:
-newconstitution.info
-The New American Economy “The Real Reagan”}
-Excerpt from:existentialistcowboy.blo...
-reuters.com/reuters-money/wh...
It doesn't say that anywhere in the Constitution DumbA$$.
Why are Right Wingers so Frickin Stupid?
Does anybody know?
The Tenth Amendment (Amendment X) to the United States Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights, was ratified on December 15, 1791.[1] The Tenth Amendment states the Constitution's principle of federalism by providing that powers not granted to the federal government nor prohibited to the States by the Constitution are reserved to the States or the people.
So you don't really have a point do you?
And yes, the Federal government has the right to enforce laws through coercion if necessary.
To think otherwise is just stupid.
Otherwise you're describing EXACTLY the same reason that the Founding Fathers, 236 years ago, went to war with Great Britain over... TYRANNY.
The Federal government does NOT have the right to enforce laws through coercion, even if "necessary". Please don't take this the wrong way... But, to think otherwise IS stupid.
The Federal Government has every right to enforce laws through coercion.
The Federal Government can fine you and throw you in prison if you commit a Federal Crime.
Go rob a bank, and see if the Federal Government cannot coeerce you into giving back the money and then coerce you into spending a few years in the slammer.
Have you ever heard of "Federal Prison?"
Tell me . . . Why are Right Wing Nut Jobs so incredibly DUMB?
The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution each contain a Due Process Clause. The Supreme Court of the United States interprets the Clauses as providing four protections: procedural due process (in civil and criminal proceedings), substantive due process, a prohibition against vague laws, and as the vehicle for the incorporation of the Bill of Rights.
The Federal government CANNOT enforce any law through the use of coercion... THAT is a violation of the Thirteenth Amendment of the Constitution.
Coercion is the practice of forcing another party to behave in an involuntary manner (whether through action or inaction) by use of threats or intimidation or some other form of pressure or force. In law, coercion is codified as the "duress crime".
Tell ME... Why are the left-wing, liberal, progressive whack-jobs so incredibly OBTUSE?
You don't even know the meaning of the words you throw around.
When someone is found guilty of a crime and thrown into prison, that IS government coercion.
People don't go to prison of their own free will Dumb A$$.
They are COERCED into going to prison. People are also sometimes COERCED into obeying the law.
When a cop writes you a speeding ticket, he is COERCING you into not exceeding the speed limit. That too is government COERCION.
Why are Right Wing Nut Jobs so frickin Stupid?
Does anyone know?
And let's see a link to the quote that you took out of context.
Gawd you're a fool.
No, that's called JUSTICE.
"Gawd you're dumb." "Gawd, you're a fool."
Listen kid, do yourself a favor... Grow up.
How is it that Right Wing Nut Jobs are too dumb to know the meanings of so many words?
co·er·cion [koh-ur-shuhn]
noun
1.
the act of coercing; use of force or intimidation to obtain compliance.
2.
force or the power to use force in gaining compliance, as by a government or police force.
http://dictionary.reference.c...
Are you actually proud of being so ignorant?
Are YOU actually so proud of being so obtuse?
Don't reply, okay? You're making a ridiculous spectacle of yourself, for everyone to witness.
I provided you with a dictionary definition.
http://dictionary.reference.c...
Coercion is Coercion.
Enforcing the law is an act of coercion.
Why are Right Wing Nut Jobs so willfully ignorant?
I think I know why.
It's because facts contradict your cherished prejudices.
I DO know that I have had enough of your sad ramblings.
Goodbye.