Quantcast

Rave this question if you ACTUALLY support FREEDOM OF RELIGION!

iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~ 2012/09/12 14:34:28
Yes...I respect freedom of religion and raved this question and shared it with everyone!
No...freedom of religion means no (Muslims, Mormons or [insert irrational fear of religion here])
You!
Add Photos & Videos
Freedom of religion means that you do NOT attempt to force your religion on others through the law.

It means that you do NOT attempt to legislate other religions...be they Muslim, Mormon, Scientology or Christianity.

It means respecting the strength of our First Amendment and not being scared of "others."

Get it together and respect our Constitution.

That is all.
Add a comment above

Top Opinion

  • Tim Terror 2012/09/12 16:55:22
    Yes...I respect freedom of religion and raved this question and shared it wit...
    Tim Terror
    +31
    I just wish that they'd respect my decision not to believe. Humble

Sort By
  • Most Raves
  • Least Raves
  • Oldest
  • Newest
Opinions

  • Chris- ... Edwin 2012/09/17 20:37:52
    Chris- Demon of the PHAET
    +2
    Well said and exactly right!
  • Edwin Chris- ... 2012/09/17 21:49:40
    Edwin
    +2
    thanks :)
  • rightagain Chris- ... 2012/09/19 02:47:05
    rightagain
    Then see post above
  • Hawk Edwin 2012/09/17 22:03:52
    Hawk
    Do athiests get Religeous Holidays off with Pay? Do you think they should? Just asking.
  • Edwin Hawk 2012/09/18 01:36:11
    Edwin
    +2
    Depends on what you mean. They should get the same number of days off as everyone else, and any day that everyone has off, they should have off.

    For example, Walmart closes on exactly one day in the year: Christmas. I don't particularly like that (because *every* store does -- and the year my daughter was born I really needed a store on Christmas Eve!)... but it is certainly reasonable for them to close for a day. Of course all their employees get the day off, including buddhists, jews, and atheists who don't necessarily celebrate Christmas.

    They should also be able to request any day, just like a religious person. An atheist could reasonably request Easter off, if it is an important family day for them.

    What the atheist shouldn't be able to do, however, is insist on Easter in the same sense as a Christian. Religious freedom is protected in this country, so to every extent possible, an employer must respect religious holidays... so a Christian can pretty much insist on having Easter off, while an atheist can only really ask.

    Problems can arise in certain jobs, like Emergency Room rotations, where *someone* has to be there at all times... so all employees are expected to work on some holidays. Hopefully there are ways to accommodate most religious requests, though I've heard of Catholics being forced to work Christmas Eve before (though I think they agreed to it in return for getting Thanksgiving off...).
  • Hawk Edwin 2012/09/18 03:53:48
    Hawk
    +1
    Thanks - reasonable.
  • Yukari ... Edwin 2012/09/18 10:21:48
    Yukari Sato
    +1
    A few years ago, in TExas, no teacher, no school authority, no govenment authority was involved, but a group of high school pupils gathered at the flag pole to pray and an atheist tried to sue the school and get the action stopped.

    Yes, Atheists, (not all) do step on the rights of others when why wish to make some kind of public out cry! This is the most recent example that I can remember, but we also have 'In God we trust' printed on our money, and they tried to remove that, and they tried to get the Pledge of allegience changed because it states... 'One Nation under God ...'

    Yes, Atheists are trying to change some of the things that our country was founded on. They do so in the name of religious freedom, but having religious freedom does NOT mean freedom from religion, but rather, freedom to practice as you choose.
  • darlene... Yukari ... 2012/09/18 17:56:18
    darlenedoskas1969
    +2
    "in God we trust" has only been on the money since the 1950s, and "under God" was added to the pledge in 1954, so it's hardly "things that our country was founded on"...

    you should study some history before you try to give a history lesson
  • Edwin Yukari ... 2012/09/18 19:27:24
    Edwin
    +3
    Interestingly, the Pledge of Allegiance did not always have "under God" in it -- that was added during the Cold War by Christians who feared the Godless Soviet Union... so they changed something the country was founded on. Atheists merely want it back to before that change.

    As for the atheist who sued the school, there *are* cases of "voluntary" school prayer where the administration (unofficially) pushes all students to comply, or other students pressure everyone to participate. I do not know whether there was any of this going on in the case you mention, but it often happens... if not, I refer back to a previous post were I acknowledged that a few activist atheists are "frenzied and unreasonable." This may be one of those cases; from the way you describe it, it sounds that way.

    Atheists are not more noble than Christians, so just like Christians they have jerks and pushy, obnoxious people. Like Christians, too, most atheists are not this way. They simply want a fair, reasonable world that allows everyone to live without someone else telling them what they can and cannot do.

    In recent times, Christian groups have pushed to define human life as beginning at conception so they can remove the established right to abortion. A Christian judge granted criminals parole on the con...

    Interestingly, the Pledge of Allegiance did not always have "under God" in it -- that was added during the Cold War by Christians who feared the Godless Soviet Union... so they changed something the country was founded on. Atheists merely want it back to before that change.

    As for the atheist who sued the school, there *are* cases of "voluntary" school prayer where the administration (unofficially) pushes all students to comply, or other students pressure everyone to participate. I do not know whether there was any of this going on in the case you mention, but it often happens... if not, I refer back to a previous post were I acknowledged that a few activist atheists are "frenzied and unreasonable." This may be one of those cases; from the way you describe it, it sounds that way.

    Atheists are not more noble than Christians, so just like Christians they have jerks and pushy, obnoxious people. Like Christians, too, most atheists are not this way. They simply want a fair, reasonable world that allows everyone to live without someone else telling them what they can and cannot do.

    In recent times, Christian groups have pushed to define human life as beginning at conception so they can remove the established right to abortion. A Christian judge granted criminals parole on the condition that they attend church -- even if they did were not Christian, they had to go to a Christian church to get parole. Christian groups protested when Atheists bought (with private money) a billboard during Christmas time that said 'you know it's not true... use reason' or something like that -- they complained and threatened so much that the billboard owner was forced to cancel the agreement (he got death threats).

    We can go back and forth all day, each pointing to some bad apples in each others' bunch. I think I can go longer, but maybe not... and it doesn't really matter. A few activists do not define a group -- you know that as well as I do. The guy who sued the school does not represent all atheists -- he represents himself. And the atheists who tried to return the Pledge to pre-Cold War wording are not trying to destroy America. For that matter, the ones who want deific words off our money are not, either -- they are trying to point out that a country which officially refuses to show preference to any religion is showing preference on its currency, which is a contradiction.
    (more)
  • iamthem... Yukari ... 2012/09/20 17:53:52
    iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~
    What case are you talking about?
  • Yukari ... iamthem... 2012/09/24 11:26:53
    Yukari Sato
    Do you not know of the case where the high school kids gathered at the flag in Texas every morning and had a prayer, and then because an Atheist teen felt left out their parents sued the school saying it was condoning the actions and that school, being run by government, had no right to allow the students to pray at the flag pole as a group?

    This was in around 2005 or 6 I want to say.
  • iamthem... Yukari ... 2012/09/24 19:35:46
    iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~
    Citation please.
  • Yukari ... iamthem... 2012/09/25 21:29:29
    Yukari Sato
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/201...

    http://www.theblaze.com/stori...

    It's amazing, but the story isn't anywhere on the web that I'm talking about! What is really interesting, was that it was stated on radio at the time, and so I know it had happened. I wonder if they were forced to hide that incident for some reason, and if that's true, well, it definitely shows how biased and controlling things are getting from the non-religious sector of our news media or government.

    I know you can't just take my word for it, as you want proof, but the above do demonstrate that Atheists are marching against what has been tradition in a couple of schools because it involves prayer, and there are other cases, though those are a bit more on point of crossing the lines.

    The way I see it, if a Jehovah's witness will not salute the flag and it's okay for that to happen, but schools do so anyway during the day, then it should also be okay to have a moment for individual prayer and traditional prayer as long as you are NOT required to join in.
  • iamthem... Yukari ... 2012/09/26 17:03:27
    iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~
    The first example is about a formal prayer at a graduation ceremony. That is an example of religion in an official context, which is problematic. It is not, further, the case that you were discussing.

    The second example in no way discusses students praying at the flagpole - it is about officials at the school organizing and participating in the prayer.

    There is a distinct line at issue - whether the prayer is attributed or attributable to the school or an individual.
  • Yukari ... iamthem... 2012/09/27 06:25:15
    Yukari Sato
    True. As I said, some reason the incident that I'm referring has 'disappeared.' I am wondering if there is censorship in the media about things that they don't want too much attention being spent on. I know for a fact, with my own ears on two different talk radio shows... Ed Shultz and Rush Limbaugh as well as the news, that it had been mentioned because I had commented about it with my students in Japan over it at the time it had happened. At least two people that follow the politics of America, though they are Japanese, had been the ones that brought it up and asked me about it.
  • iamthem... Yukari ... 2012/11/07 17:54:02
    iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~
    That's more than a bit paranoid.
  • Yukari ... Edwin 2012/09/18 10:24:16
    Yukari Sato
    And if a church group got together, asked for a permit to hold their parade, and had an Easter Parade down Central Avenue, you be Atheists would say that streets are public property and therefore the govenment was sponsoring the action even though it was done by a Christian group, right?

    I don't know, but it feels like everytime something remotely close to something like this happens, that Atheists always complain, and Christians are forced to buckle under.
  • Edwin Yukari ... 2012/09/18 19:41:15
    Edwin
    +4
    Odd that you claim to read my mind, yet do so amazingly badly. I would not protest, and I know nobody who would. I can imagine reasons to deny the permit based on impact on traffic or business revenue, but there is no religious reason they should be denied. Where I grew up there are occasionally large events that require traffic control. None tend to be religious, but they could be. One was actually approved (but got cancelled because of logistics). Nobody of consequence objected.

    I understand how you feel, though. It feels to me that Christians complain a lot and pressure governments to change to suit their demands... and expect Atheists to simply accept it without complaint. Same feeling, opposite reason. Basically, pushy groups do things and force others to accept it -- and there are very pushy Christians and very pushy Atheists. Most of us have to simply accept it.

    My current town has Easter celebrations at the main park, but they are non-religious -- because the group that organizes it is non-religious. There is less need for Christians to use the park because they have some magnificent churches (one of the Catholic ones has the best acoustics in the whole area)... in addition to worship areas, many have spacious meeting rooms and picnic areas. Another one (also...



    Odd that you claim to read my mind, yet do so amazingly badly. I would not protest, and I know nobody who would. I can imagine reasons to deny the permit based on impact on traffic or business revenue, but there is no religious reason they should be denied. Where I grew up there are occasionally large events that require traffic control. None tend to be religious, but they could be. One was actually approved (but got cancelled because of logistics). Nobody of consequence objected.

    I understand how you feel, though. It feels to me that Christians complain a lot and pressure governments to change to suit their demands... and expect Atheists to simply accept it without complaint. Same feeling, opposite reason. Basically, pushy groups do things and force others to accept it -- and there are very pushy Christians and very pushy Atheists. Most of us have to simply accept it.

    My current town has Easter celebrations at the main park, but they are non-religious -- because the group that organizes it is non-religious. There is less need for Christians to use the park because they have some magnificent churches (one of the Catholic ones has the best acoustics in the whole area)... in addition to worship areas, many have spacious meeting rooms and picnic areas. Another one (also Catholic) holds a festival every fall that draws 2/3 of the town (most other organizations, public ones included, work around the church's schedule for obvious reasons).

    Try to be proactive. Instead of feeling suppressed by atheists, try organizing a church event that actively welcomes the entire community (with no goal of trying to convert people or anything). Focus on what the church can do to be welcoming to everyone. Try to partner with a non-religious group to hold a joint event. Work to bridge the gap rather than fester over it. In my town religious and non-religious groups work together very well, and everyone benefits.

    If your town doesn't work together well, take that as your challenge. Don't complain about atheists -- work to make them allies instead of enemies. Find common ground and work with it.
    (more)
  • iamthem... Yukari ... 2012/09/20 17:55:17
    iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~
    Such things actually happen all the time.

    There are several religious parades yearly even in places like NYC...and you can't forget the grand celebration that is the lighting of the tree at Rockefeller Center.
  • rightagain Edwin 2012/09/19 02:45:08
    rightagain
    There has never been any attempt to create a government sponsored religion. Never in America. The US Constitution was wrote by christian faith men and the ideas were a result of their belief in God.Deny it all you want but history don't change.
    *****************************...
    --Adams wrote this on June 28, 1813, excerpt from a letter to Thomas Jefferson.
    "The general principles, on which the Fathers achieved independence, were the only Principles in which that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite, and these Principles only could be intended by them in their address, or by me in my answer. And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all these Sects were United: And the general Principles of English and American Liberty, in which all those young Men United, and which had United all Parties in America, in Majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her Independence.
    "Now I will avow, that I then believe, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of Liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System."
    *****************************...
    This country use to be run by mo...



    There has never been any attempt to create a government sponsored religion. Never in America. The US Constitution was wrote by christian faith men and the ideas were a result of their belief in God.Deny it all you want but history don't change.
    *****************************...
    --Adams wrote this on June 28, 1813, excerpt from a letter to Thomas Jefferson.
    "The general principles, on which the Fathers achieved independence, were the only Principles in which that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite, and these Principles only could be intended by them in their address, or by me in my answer. And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all these Sects were United: And the general Principles of English and American Liberty, in which all those young Men United, and which had United all Parties in America, in Majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her Independence.
    "Now I will avow, that I then believe, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of Liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System."
    *****************************...
    This country use to be run by moral, decent people who used ethics and reason to create fair and just laws. But Godless people have taken it over and corrupted our government our banks our capitalist system and our schools.
    I think you listen to too much Godless propaganda spread by Left wing commies.
    In the words of Joe Walsh "you can't argue with a sick mind", I see you for what you are. Now the game plan is seen so clear. Just deny the truth and lie about the facts. When the facts are shown then you call me a name with your twisted sense of humor. I realize you don't have any intention to acknowlage the actuality of the gospel truth. That would be contrary to your Bolsheviks socialist agenda you wish to infect our country with.
    I have no desire to change your mind, I just don't back down against what is wrong.
    Madeline O'Hare won the removal of compulsory Bible reading from the public schools and now after forty years there have been tens of millions of kids with no chance of being around true Christian Values and Clean morals. The first generation had kids and then the next one and the family morals are gone and now the grand kids are here and you want to relive history from some other failed time.
    (more)
  • Edwin rightagain 2012/09/20 01:21:09
    Edwin
    +3
    What wrong did I do against you that you feel you can't back down? I wasn't responding to your posts, and I don't know you.

    History does not change, but apparently interpretations do. I notice you did not quote Jefferson's response. Jefferson and most of the other Founding Fathers were Deists, NOT Christians. Adams was a Christian and disagreed with Jefferson on many things.

    Jefferson actually created a version of the Bible -- he found its guiding principles to be superior, but he meticulously deleted every reference to a miracle or the divinity of Jesus. That does not sound like a christian to me -- does it to you?

    I like your phrase "you can't argue with a sick mind" because I honestly think you are the sick one. I have no interest in Bolsheviks or communism (it is interesting but has serious flaws), but like you I don't like to back down against hostility or truly wrong thinking... and your thinking is very wrong.

    The reason morals are on the decline is not because we've stopped being a God-fearing society. It's because nobody believes in America anymore -- they only believe in themselves. The rich no longer believe it is their responsibility to pay for infrastructure. Two generations ago -- during the American Golden Age -- the highest tax bracket was more than 80% --...





    What wrong did I do against you that you feel you can't back down? I wasn't responding to your posts, and I don't know you.

    History does not change, but apparently interpretations do. I notice you did not quote Jefferson's response. Jefferson and most of the other Founding Fathers were Deists, NOT Christians. Adams was a Christian and disagreed with Jefferson on many things.

    Jefferson actually created a version of the Bible -- he found its guiding principles to be superior, but he meticulously deleted every reference to a miracle or the divinity of Jesus. That does not sound like a christian to me -- does it to you?

    I like your phrase "you can't argue with a sick mind" because I honestly think you are the sick one. I have no interest in Bolsheviks or communism (it is interesting but has serious flaws), but like you I don't like to back down against hostility or truly wrong thinking... and your thinking is very wrong.

    The reason morals are on the decline is not because we've stopped being a God-fearing society. It's because nobody believes in America anymore -- they only believe in themselves. The rich no longer believe it is their responsibility to pay for infrastructure. Two generations ago -- during the American Golden Age -- the highest tax bracket was more than 80% -- and the rich *loved* America. They probably didn't love paying so much, but they didn't complain.

    The poor worked hard and got RESPECT. They got education and a safe place to live, and a promise that if they worked hard their lives would improve. Now the poor face insults and ridicule, failing education, and crime-ridden, drug-ridden housing. No promise anymore of anything better for their children. No wonder gangs are growing.

    I understand that you prefer we all worship your deity, and I do understand that if we all did then there might be fewer problems. But America has NEVER been a country based on a single religion -- even if you somehow think it was once. The original colonists came here to ESCAPE such countries. Almost all of them faced religious persecution before emigrating. They wanted, more than *anything*, a country that would NOT force everyone to believe one thing or one way.

    How is it you don't know that?
    (more)
  • iamthem... Edwin 2012/09/20 17:55:51
    iamthemob ~ the 444th Guru ~
    +1
    I applaud your reasonable/rational reactions here.
  • Edwin iamthem... 2012/09/21 16:41:27
    Edwin
    Thank you
  • motherm... Edwin 2012/09/20 19:49:12
    mothermayhem
    Edwin you are a wise man too. I have seen several, but not that many. What you have stated to the Christian right again is 100% true. He actually has no clue.
  • Edwin motherm... 2012/09/21 16:54:48
    Edwin
    Thank you for the compliment, but be careful: my comment was directed at one person, not the entire "Christian right". When people are lumped together (i.e., Christian right), it is very easy to create an 'us versus them' dynamic. This has led in modern times to extreme polarization, which nobody really thinks is a good thing. I think the only real way out of it is if we all try as individuals to stop thinking of people as simply belonging to groups that we agree or disagree with.

    It's hard, and I do not always succeed -- but I think the more people who try to end the partisanship, the better chance we have of actually bridging the divide.
  • MR. rightagain 2012/09/17 12:17:40
    MR.
    +1
    They want what amounts to, "Hell on Earth!" *(...and we want Heaven!)
  • Cameleon MR. 2012/09/17 19:24:12
    Cameleon
    +2
    You have no idea what other want, you obviously have not listened to any of them.
  • MR. Cameleon 2012/09/17 22:45:16
    MR.
    I hear you loud and clear, I've heard the same thing 1000's of tines! (and your different somehow?)
  • Cameleon MR. 2012/09/20 01:49:55
    Cameleon
    +1
    You assume that you know what others want. My opinion is that what christians want is hell on earth for others.
  • MR. Cameleon 2012/09/20 02:02:13
    MR.
    ASK GOD IF THAT'S WHAT HE THINKS? (HE KNOWS THE TRUTH, HE IS,... TRUTH!)
  • motherm... MR. 2012/09/20 19:50:28
    mothermayhem
    And how in the hell do know we aren't in hell right now?
  • MR. motherm... 2012/09/20 20:26:11 (edited)
    MR.
    HELL'S AGONY, IS SO INTENSE IT INFLICTS "GOD'S WRATH" ON A SINFUL "SPIRIT",... OBAMA'S AMERICA'S, I HAVE TO BE HONEST, IS NOT THERE,... (YET!)
  • Ben rightagain 2012/09/17 14:20:41
    Ben
    +2
    Isn't the US constitution secular? As in very pointedly so.
  • Hermes rightagain 2012/09/17 14:43:31
    Hermes
    +4
    I happen to be religious - but did you REALLY mean to use THAT picture in combination with the intolerant message you posted??? Because, really, those towers would still be standing without religion. It was religion that (through the hands of its followers) drove those planes into those two buildings and killed a lot of people, including Michael Canty - may he rest in peace.
  • rightagain Hermes 2012/09/17 20:21:52
    rightagain
    So what Pagan god do you worship?The god of Homos died in Sodom or Gomorrah. Or did ya'll make up a new one?
    This country was made in Christian views and that's fact. Those buildings were built in a time when America was majority Christian and they came down by Godless people when America had turned it's back on God.
  • motherm... rightagain 2012/09/18 00:48:22
    mothermayhem
    +1
    Oh, you are a snot. Exactly what a true christian would say. It is people like you that give christians a bad name and this from an agnostic.
  • rightagain motherm... 2012/09/18 01:22:47
    rightagain
    I guess, I [being a Christian} should take note when an agnostic speaks about religion?
    Why? you ain't much different than an atheist. Of course you are against Christians. This great country was built by God fearing men and now is dying by the likes of YOU.
    Tell you something a true Christian might just say to you because I don't like what you believe but I want something good for.......I pray that God will bring you down so low that you feel the need to trust in him and pray for him to help you. Then you will see.
  • motherm... rightagain 2012/09/20 19:34:59
    mothermayhem
    I am against Christians who espouse hate. Such as the Westboro Baptist Church. Christians are they not? I grew up Mormon. Another religion that doesn't practice what it preaches. My personal believe is that when I meet MY Higher Power of Being, I will be held accountable for my transgressions by that Being. So you can stuff YOUR CHRISTIAN belief up your nose.
  • nerak611 motherm... 2012/09/18 04:19:16
    nerak611
    +1
    It's these extreme fundamentalists who turn people off from religion. They use shame, guilt, and believe they are Gods themselves by the way they judge everyone else who doesn't believe exactly the way they do. Not every religion shares their views, most don't, yet they aren't telling them they are non Christain! Religion and being a Christian isn't about using only certain parts of the Bible for one's own gain, or saying someone is damned because they believe their God to be a loving, caring, and practice tolerance and unconditional acceptance and love for all human kind. They use violence in the name of God. They quote the Bible, yet don't live by it! Jesus died to save our sins and gave us free choice and Grace. They act like little children who an't get their way and resort to name calling and judging many! They call themselves Christains while they practice un christian like ways!
  • nerak611 nerak611 2012/09/18 04:23:03
    nerak611
    +1
    just look at the name....rightagain! all they want is to antagonize and fight! They are the religious people who call them selves followers of God, yet the start wars just to prove their beliefs are Christain!!!! Just ignore them! They obviously have low membership to their church as they need to resort to such hateful tactics to gain members. If you ever go into their church just make sure they don't lock the front gates!

See Votes by State

The map above displays the winning answer by region.

News & Politics

2014/10/23 02:19:03

Hot Questions on SodaHead
More Hot Questions

More Community More Originals