Quantcast

Question for Libertarians and Libertarian leaning people; Which of the following three approaches do you prefer?

Alien Ramone 2012/08/26 01:10:18
You!
Add Photos & Videos
1) A hard line Constitutional approach where all legislation and programs that you view as unconstitutional are eliminated as soon as possible.

2) A fairly strict Constitutional approach where exceptions are made to allow for fairness and transitions such as Social Security being continued, because people have paid into it and many are dependent on it, but with an opt out being provided for people under a certain age, allowing the program to slowly phase out over many decades.

3) A pragmatic approach where a candidate follows the Constitution fairly strictly on most things, but supports legislation the candidate believes in or believes would work the best. For example, Gary Johnson supporting federal legislation allowing abortion up until viability, supporting the EPA, and wanting to reform, but keep programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security.
Add a comment above

Top Opinion

  • kir 2012/08/26 01:14:31
    1) Hard Line Constitutional Approach
    kir
    +8
    This is the only one that makes sense to me. The constitution is the basis on which our entire government was founded. If we ignore the constitution then we ignore the validity of our government as a whole. If there is an issue with the constitution we can simply amend it.

Sort By
  • Most Raves
  • Least Raves
  • Oldest
  • Newest
Opinions

  • sockpuppet 2012/09/06 18:50:48
    2) Strict Constitutional Approach with exceptions for fairness and a smooth t...
    sockpuppet
    +1
    Had a real tussle with this interesting, well-presented question. Option 1 probably leads to the Supreme Court running the country, which carries implications I don't even want to imagine. Option 3 seems reasonable, but would certainly become the mare's nest we're facing now in short order. >300 million people bring a LOT of issues to the table.

    So I'll go with 2, and hope for the best. I think we passed the demographical 'sweet spot' for democracy back in the 60's, and a 'fair but firm' approach may be what we need with the new (non-assimilating) "melting pot" we face today.
  • Classical Liberal 2012/08/27 23:26:32
    1) Hard Line Constitutional Approach
    Classical Liberal
    +2
    The Constitution is the Constitution. It's not perfect, that's why we can amend it. There is no such thing as an emergency requiring that the Constitution be violated, that is a political fallacy.
  • TuringsChild 2012/08/27 22:35:31
    2) Strict Constitutional Approach with exceptions for fairness and a smooth t...
    TuringsChild
    +2
    We've gone a LONG way in the wrong direction in the last 100 years. It's going to take time to bring us back to an America the Founding Fathers would recognize.
  • Marc Victor 2012/08/27 22:28:06
    3) Pragmatic Approach following the Constitution fairly strictly on most thin...
    Marc Victor
    +2
    None of these would really have been my answer, but I selected the closest one.

    I have where I stand on the issues on my website: www.VictorForSenate.com
  • The Bantam Seditioner 2012/08/27 22:22:04 (edited)
    Non-Libertarian answer
    The Bantam Seditioner
    +2
    I kind of wish there was an "other" option. I'm a libertarian, but the Constitution isn't really my yardstick for freedom. In fact, if anything, I believe the Constitution grants government *too much* power, which is why it is speculated that the Federalists waited until Jefferson was away serving an Ambassadorship in Paris before they drafted it.

    A document can enshrine and enumerate freedoms, but the danger in having such a document is that it leads many people to think they *receive* their rights from said document, instead of enjoying inalienable rights, simply by virtue of their humanity.
  • Classic... The Ban... 2012/08/28 03:11:48 (edited)
    Classical Liberal
    +1
    *cough*theysenthimthereto gethimoutofthecountry sotheycoulddoit*cough*
  • Angelique ~ Pfffft! ;)~ 2012/08/26 17:47:56
    1) Hard Line Constitutional Approach
    Angelique ~ Pfffft!  ;)~
    +1
    Shame we Libertarians have to be the ones fixing the mess the two party system made. Removing the band aid slowly only makes the pain last longer.
  • mk, Smartass Oracle 2012/08/26 13:48:27
  • swim2bgood 2012/08/26 13:39:17
    2) Strict Constitutional Approach with exceptions for fairness and a smooth t...
    swim2bgood
    +2
    I'd like to choose number one but unfortunately those on Social Security now did pay into it and many are dependent upon it. It's not their fault that they were tricked into it.
  • Gregaj7 2012/08/26 06:16:03
    1) Hard Line Constitutional Approach
    Gregaj7
    +2
    While we've already got this going on, most folk do not grasp just how all the stuff we perceive as unconstitutional really in fact is totally legit.
    The bulk of Federal actions are taking place within Article 1-Section 8-last two paragraphs and Article II-Section III-first paragraph. Of Article 1 clauses, please read very carefully and slowly the first sentence of each (up to the fifth comma of the first and the first comma of the second). Of the Article II-Section III, please study after the first (;). Please also not that you are reading legalese as written at the time and pay close attention to the proper nouns (first letter capitalized, but does not lead the sentence).
  • Alien R... Gregaj7 2012/08/26 19:44:29
    Alien Ramone
    +1
    Article 1-Section 8-last two paragraphs:
    To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And

    To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

    Article II-Section III-first paragraph:
    He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers; he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shal...




    Article 1-Section 8-last two paragraphs:
    To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And

    To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

    Article II-Section III-first paragraph:
    He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers; he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States.
    ......................
    I couldn't find the 5 commas you were talking about in Article 1. Maybe quoting those would be the best way to point them out.
    ......................
    I'm not sure how what you were referring to shows "how all the stuff we perceive as unconstitutional really in fact is totally legit." A long time ago someone told me that the following quote from Article IV, Section 3 allows Congress to make pretty much any law it wants respecting the United States and its property:
    "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State."
    (more)
  • Gregaj7 Alien R... 2012/08/27 00:29:58
    Gregaj7
    +1
    "To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever,(1) over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may,(2) by Cession of particular States,(3) and the Acceptance of Congress,(4) become the Seat of the Government of the United States,(5) and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be(stop), for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And"

    I see what the guy you;re referring to is talking about with Article IV-Section III.

    I know how this works, but trying to explain it to most folk is worse than pulling teeth without Novocaine.
    I've got an .iso I wish I could share that does a fantastic job.
    http://freestateforwyoming.co...
    #2 on the above link. 47 min long.
  • WannaBeRSC the Contrarian SOB 2012/08/26 05:43:13
    1) Hard Line Constitutional Approach
    WannaBeRSC the Contrarian SOB
    +3
    The fact that we compromised our Constitution is why we are in this mess in the first place. Let's hit it, hard, and let the chips fall where they may.
  • james.bowman.146 2012/08/26 04:17:58
    3) Pragmatic Approach following the Constitution fairly strictly on most thin...
    james.bowman.146
    +2
    The Constitution will eventually be outdated. "Right to bear arms"
    Well we now have nuclear weapons. We need debate on where the line is to be drawn.
  • swim2bgood james.b... 2012/08/26 13:45:39
    swim2bgood
    +2
    It's not outdated. I don't care if they are nuclear weapons or not. If the government can threaten me with them then I should be able to threaten them with the same weapon!
  • james.b... swim2bgood 2012/08/26 22:38:31
    james.bowman.146
    So you want 400,000,000 people to have access to nuclear weapons?
  • swim2bgood james.b... 2012/08/26 23:41:15
    swim2bgood
    Do I? No and I don't think our government should have them either. But since our government does have them then we should be able to have access to them as well.
  • james.b... swim2bgood 2012/08/27 00:37:37
    james.bowman.146
    Lol. You appear to be as crazy as those who want to ban all weapons. Nuclear weaponry cannot be used for defense purposes.
  • swim2bgood james.b... 2012/08/27 00:52:51
    swim2bgood
    Who said anything about using them? Our government uses them as a scare tactic and so can we.
  • james.b... swim2bgood 2012/08/27 05:16:09
    james.bowman.146
    I don't trust one man having a button to kill everyone on Earth. I certainly don't trust 400,000,000 people to have that button. Especially when we have these guys in our country:

    Westboro Baptist Church

    Santorum

    Timothy McVeigh

    Fort Hood shooter

    and so on.
  • swim2bgood james.b... 2012/08/27 23:43:15
    swim2bgood
    Is it weird that the top two pictures you posted frighten me more than the bottom two?
  • james.b... swim2bgood 2012/08/28 03:37:40
    james.bowman.146
    Yes. It is very weird. Santorum does not really belong on that list, but PRESIDENT Santorum WOULD belong on that list. This man was so sick that he said he "wished" we were involved in Iran's scientists dying. It's one think to be relieved when people who are threats die, but it is another thing to say, "Well I wish I was the one who could have killed them personally."

    Why would anyone ever wish to pull the trigger if it was already going to be pulled? I'm a registered Republican, by the way (although I am a Libertarian).
  • swim2bgood james.b... 2012/08/28 22:29:22
    swim2bgood
    As am I.

    The bottom two are just individuals that have done horrible things whereas the other two result in large groups of individuals doing horrible things.

    I am not for killing people with these guns or nuclear weapons but would I turn a gun on the government should they turn their weapons on me or fellow Americans? In a heartbeat.
  • gary ® 2012/08/26 03:45:29
    1) Hard Line Constitutional Approach
    gary ®
    +3
    Strict Constructionist: One who argues a narrow interpretation of Constitutional provisions, especially those granting powers to the Federal Government. A strict constructionist believes that the government should only exercise those powers that were intended by the Framers of the Constitution of the United States.
  • kyle 2012/08/26 03:40:37 (edited)
    1) Hard Line Constitutional Approach
    kyle
    +2
    Wasn't really sure which to put. I do not believe the Constitution has any authority so...



    I do think the government needs to do less than what the Constitution permits and nothing more though...
  • ManBearPig 2012/08/26 03:24:43
    3) Pragmatic Approach following the Constitution fairly strictly on most thin...
    ManBearPig
    +2
    obviously you have to follow the lines of the constitution... but if you follow it to the point where you do not allow open discussion on translations of the text then you are acting like a die hard christian who lives life by the literal definition of the bible... there are obviously some gray areas in the constitution but this document was made to adjustment to the present culture, laws, etc.

    if no one takes a pragmatic approach to lead this country then you are only just holding the country farther back from successful development and growth
  • goatman112003 2012/08/26 03:12:06
    2) Strict Constitutional Approach with exceptions for fairness and a smooth t...
    goatman112003
    +2
    Simple fact to go hard line is asking for a revolt of some sort. Strict approach allows smooth transition over time. . It took almost a 100 years to get into mess and may need 50 to fully get out of it. Pragmatic sounds nice but this only slows the process down but never eliminates it which is not desirable.
  • Arizona1950 2012/08/26 03:10:22
    2) Strict Constitutional Approach with exceptions for fairness and a smooth t...
    Arizona1950
    +3
    ... and once everyone has transititioned ... then we get real hard-line about it.
  • ★Calliope★ 2012/08/26 03:05:45
    3) Pragmatic Approach following the Constitution fairly strictly on most thin...
    ★Calliope★
    +1
    I am very pragmatic.

    So much so a lot of hard line authoritarian Libertarians seem to hate me.
  • burningsnowman 2012/08/26 03:04:41
    Non-Libertarian answer
    burningsnowman
    +1
    The constitution is totally useless, it means whatever the rich and powerful (redundant) want it to mean.
  • Alien R... burning... 2012/08/26 03:13:07
    Alien Ramone
    +1
    I would agree that wide reaching interpretations of the Constitution have limited it's function, but the Bill of Rights has done a lot to prevent the United States from becoming a police state. Attacks on the Bill of Rights over the last 11 or 12 years have created the framework for a police state, which could come to be at a time of more chaos.
  • burning... Alien R... 2012/08/26 03:19:34 (edited)
    burningsnowman
    +3
    11-12 years? Much longer than that. Look up asset forfeiture, eminent domain, etc. and those are just things that have been used aggressively on a routine basis the last 40 years. Ask the Japanese or Blacks or Native Americans how useful the constitution was for them when they really needed it. Plenty of the american colonialists didn't even support the Constitution because they viewed it as illegitimate and/or a potentially tyrannical imposition on them in the first place.
  • Tennessean 2012/08/26 03:01:04
    1) Hard Line Constitutional Approach
    Tennessean
    +2
    The constitution only gave the federl government power over things that could not be handled on a state by state basis and they would include things today such as the FAA, FCC, and other agencies that could not be controlled on a state by state basis.

    As to SS, thost have paid into it deserve to receive their guaranteed payments, just as if they had bought a private retirement policy although the federal government had no power to establish it to begin with, and those young enough to purchase private retirement policies should be allowed to opt out.

    The federal government has no power to spend tax payers money on objects of benevolence.

    "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison criticizing an attempt to grant public monies for charitable means, 1794

    “It is very certain that [the commerce clause] grew out of the abuse of the power by the importing States in taxing the non-importing, and was intended as a negative and preventive provision against injustice among the States themselves, rather than as a power to be used for the positive purposes of the General Government.” James Madison
  • endthefed.soundmoney 2012/08/26 02:56:08
    1) Hard Line Constitutional Approach
    endthefed.soundmoney
    +2
    I must say if it was not for Ron Paul I would just be one of the sheeple and not caring about our personal liberties or the Constitution. Thank you Dr Ron Paul.
  • BlueRepublican 2012/08/26 02:48:26
    2) Strict Constitutional Approach with exceptions for fairness and a smooth t...
    BlueRepublican
    +4
    Personal responsibility and the right to be left alone :-)
  • ★Calliope★ BlueRep... 2012/08/26 03:06:34
    ★Calliope★
    +2
    agreed
  • Striker 2012/08/26 02:41:32
    Non-Libertarian answer
    Striker
    +3
    Were the Constitution not flawed, I'd say Hard-Line. So I'll throw this out there again:

    http://no-ruler.net/new-const...
    Much easier than writing it all again.
  • Arizona... Striker 2012/08/26 03:13:26
    Arizona1950
    +2
    Other than making English the official language ... not bad, not bad at all. :-)
  • Striker Arizona... 2012/08/26 14:21:10
    Striker
    +1
    Good morning. I'm not sure just what I'm to read within that line! LOL.
  • Arizona... Striker 2012/08/26 14:27:48
    Arizona1950
    +1
    You know we differ very slightly in our ideology and hoped for direction ... :-)

See Votes by State

The map above displays the winning answer by region.

News & Politics

2014/09/30 17:48:08

Hot Questions on SodaHead
More Hot Questions

More Community More Originals