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Q#138: According to the Bible, who was the first king of Israel.

Dave Sawyer ♥ Child of God ♥ 2009/10/19 07:41:30
Moses
Gideon
Abimelech
David
Someone else
I have no idea
You!
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Hint: It was not Saul, son of Kish.
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  • Dave Sawyer ♥ Child of God ♥ 2011/03/28 19:38:15
    Someone else
    Dave Sawyer ♥ Child of God ♥
    Saul, son of Kish. Abimelech was the first King in Israel, but he wasn't king of Israel. He was one of the many sons of Gideon (or Jerubaal), a judge. He was made king over the men of the city of Shechem (Judges 9:18).
  • Dave Sa... Dave Sa... 2011/03/28 19:42:18
    Dave Sawyer ♥ Child of God ♥
    Technically, God was Israel's first king.

    1 Samuel 12:11-12, "And the LORD sent Jerubbaal, and Bedan, and bJephthah, and Samuel, and delivered you out of the hand of your enemies on every side, and ye dwelled safe. And when ye saw that Nahash the king of the children of Ammon came against you, ye said unto me, Nay; but a king shall reign over us: when the LORD your God was your king."
  • Sagar Prashant Bhatt 2011/03/28 18:07:33
    David
    Sagar Prashant Bhatt
    I think its David.
  • Big Jim 2009/10/22 19:58:56
    Someone else
    Big Jim
    +1
    God was the First King the People went to The Prophet Samuel & rejected God & demanded a King They Got Saul.
  • Dave Sa... Big Jim 2009/10/23 03:01:34
    Dave Sawyer ♥ Child of God ♥
    Agreed. I should have specified mortal king.
  • Iamfree 2009/10/22 05:40:05
    Abimelech
    Iamfree
    +1
    Abimelech was the first self-proclaimed king, but Saul was God's annointed first King of Israel.
  • Dave Sa... Iamfree 2009/10/23 03:03:09
    Dave Sawyer ♥ Child of God ♥
    I would say he was the first self-promoted king, but it was the men of Shechem who proclaimed him king.
  • Iamfree Dave Sa... 2009/10/23 19:12:06
    Iamfree
    +1
    I stand corrected.
  • Lucy formerly of Finchley 2009/10/20 02:10:00
    David
    Lucy formerly of Finchley
    +1
    My husband and I just read First and Second Samuel, so I *think* it's David, but I could be wrong.
  • Dave Sa... Lucy fo... 2009/10/20 03:08:49
    Dave Sawyer ♥ Child of God ♥
    Read Judges chapter 9.
  • Lucy fo... Dave Sa... 2009/10/20 03:15:53
    Lucy formerly of Finchley
    +1
    Thanks!
  • Mrs. V 2009/10/20 01:40:19
    Someone else
    Mrs. V
    +1
    Saul. 1 Samuel 12:19- 13:1 Saul was 40 when he became king.
  • Dave Sa... Mrs. V 2009/10/20 03:08:34
    Dave Sawyer ♥ Child of God ♥
    Read Judges chapter 9.
  • Mrs. V Dave Sa... 2009/10/20 03:40:00
    Mrs. V
    +1
    Abimelech was the King of Shechem.
  • Dave Sa... Mrs. V 2009/10/20 17:40:23
    Dave Sawyer ♥ Child of God ♥
    Then why didn't he live in Shechem?
  • Mrs. V Dave Sa... 2009/10/21 02:36:33
    Mrs. V
    +1
    I don't know? I will read it later. Wasn't it sort of a usurping type action. I don't think it was a good situation.
  • seathanaich 2009/10/19 21:52:57 (edited)
    I have no idea
    seathanaich
    +1
    Who cares? Since there's no "mythology" section on Sodahead, please post this sort of thing in the "religion" section.
  • Dave Sa... seathan... 2009/10/20 03:08:23
    Dave Sawyer ♥ Child of God ♥
    +1
    Isn't the World enough?
  • Lucy fo... seathan... 2009/10/20 03:23:15
    Lucy formerly of Finchley
    +1
    Well, you cared enough to answer. As for the category, this isn't mythology; it's world history. Aren't you aware that these people actually lived? Not only did they live, but they lived in a part of the world that is playing a big part on the world stage at the moment. You might learn something. If you'd rather not participate, then just ignore the questions...although it seems that you couldn't resist this one.
  • seathan... Lucy fo... 2009/10/20 03:31:18 (edited)
    seathanaich
    +1
    Legendary characters who may have lived.

    And that "part of the world" holds the rest of us hostage to its endless religious strife. Spare me the condescending "you might just learn something" crap.
  • Lucy fo... seathan... 2009/10/20 04:46:03
    Lucy formerly of Finchley
    +1
    In addition to the archaeological discovery of what is thought to be David's palace, archaeologists recently found the most contemporary written reference to King David ever discovered: ("On July 21, 1993, a team of archaeologists led by Prof. Avraham Biran, excavating Tel Dan in the northern Galilee, found a triangular piece of basalt rock, measuring 23 x 36 cm. inscribed in Aramaic. It was subsequently identified as part of a victory pillar erected by the king of Syria and later smashed by an Israelite ruler. The inscription, which dates to the ninth century bce, that is to say, about a century after David was thought to have ruled Israel, includes the words Beit David ("House" or "Dynasty" of David"). It is the first near-contemporaneous reference to David ever found"). And the more contemporary characters in the Bible, Jesus in particular, have scores of primary sources written about them, detailing their lives. It's a shame that the Middle East is so full of religious strife, but, to be fair, it isn't the Jews holding anyone hostage. And I'm really sorry I seemed condescending to you. That wasn't my intention.
  • seathan... Lucy fo... 2009/10/20 05:23:56
    seathanaich
    +1
    "I'm really sorry I seemed condescending to you. That wasn't my intention."

    No problem. I respect people who apologise. It shows integrity, wisdom, respect, and responsibility which most people sadly lack.

    "Jesus in particular, have scores of primary sources written about them, detailing their lives."

    Jesus has no contemporary primary sources which write about him. The Josephus references were exposed as later forgeries decades ago. So I'll disagree with you on that.

    However, it aounds like the David you refer to was an historical person. I'm more interested in Egypt and Mesopotamia, because those societies accomplished a lot, and the Jews really contributed nothing to humanity, so I don't have much interest in their history, and don't really know all the real historical figures from all the mythical ones in the OT.

    "it isn't the Jews holding anyone hostage"

    I agree. Islam is a horrible thing. It's the worst religion on the planet right now. Even if you disagree with me, have a great day, Lucy.
  • Lucy fo... seathan... 2009/10/20 05:49:52
    Lucy formerly of Finchley
    Thanks, Seathanaich. I hope you have a great day, too. Oh, and I wasn't talking about the Josephus references. Even the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are primary sources written by Jesus' contemporaries, and these are people whom we know existed. Anyway, I didn't mean to get sucked back into the discussion again. Thank you for making me think--keeps me on my toes :) I'm glad we talked.
  • seathan... Lucy fo... 2009/10/20 16:29:52
    seathanaich
    Hi Lucy.
    The Gospels are allegorical. They are not historical. They are Hellenistic (ie Greek) cultural reform responses to the Jewish religious tradition. They are interesting, but they are not eye-witness accounts, nor are they factual. In that time, people didn't really separate "fact" and "story" the way we do today (a separation that really only occurred in the 1700 and 1800s).
    Many people, like Christian Karen Armstrong and Joseph Campbell, have written excellent works on mythology like "A Short History of Mythology" and "The Hero With A Thousand Faces". Both writers are brilliant. And both lament the fact that religion has lost its power because people today think that their religious myths were 'real', instead of reading them as myth, and thereby better learning the messages they are trying to convey. Cheers.
  • Lucy fo... seathan... 2009/10/20 19:33:48
    Lucy formerly of Finchley
    Hello, Seathanaich. If you would, I'd like you to read the following web page, please:

    http://www.jesuscentral.com/j...

    It lists several primary sources regarding the life of Jesus, as well as the criteria used to determine the historical authenticity and accuracy of these primary biographical sources. This isn't something I've really read yet--just something I pulled quickly off the web about primary sources during Biblical times. Do you think you could read it and tell me what you think? I'd really appreciate it.
    Thank you!
    -Lucy
  • seathan... Lucy fo... 2009/10/20 20:08:08
    seathanaich
    Hi Lucy.

    I've had this link sent to me before. Some interesting stuff on there. I hope you get a look at it. Read the bottom. Tacitus and Jospehus. That's it, that's all. Josephus has already been exposed as a fraud - edited in the 4th Century. The Tacitus reference on Jesus consists of 5 lines. That's it, that's all. Someone truly important during his own lifetime would merit more than 5 lines of notice by neutral, unbiased historical sources.

    I have no problem believing that a person named Yeshua (Jesus) was a Jewish religious holy man and reformer. But we know almost nothing about him. And he was one of dozens of similar characters. There is nothing to corraborate all the magic stories about him. And, lacking such evidence, it's pretty obvious that this person wasn't really that important. He was only turned into something important by others, who attributed magic to him - magic which is the same stuff that was claimed by many other such mystical figures, from Greece to Egypt to Persia, over a period of 1000 years.

    One of the big problems with "Biblical scholarship" is that there really isn't much neutral scholarship being done. Jewish, Muslim, Christian, or atheist - there is usually an agenda behind them all! So sifting the bias out is tough to do.

    Did you read th...



    Hi Lucy.

    I've had this link sent to me before. Some interesting stuff on there. I hope you get a look at it. Read the bottom. Tacitus and Jospehus. That's it, that's all. Josephus has already been exposed as a fraud - edited in the 4th Century. The Tacitus reference on Jesus consists of 5 lines. That's it, that's all. Someone truly important during his own lifetime would merit more than 5 lines of notice by neutral, unbiased historical sources.

    I have no problem believing that a person named Yeshua (Jesus) was a Jewish religious holy man and reformer. But we know almost nothing about him. And he was one of dozens of similar characters. There is nothing to corraborate all the magic stories about him. And, lacking such evidence, it's pretty obvious that this person wasn't really that important. He was only turned into something important by others, who attributed magic to him - magic which is the same stuff that was claimed by many other such mystical figures, from Greece to Egypt to Persia, over a period of 1000 years.

    One of the big problems with "Biblical scholarship" is that there really isn't much neutral scholarship being done. Jewish, Muslim, Christian, or atheist - there is usually an agenda behind them all! So sifting the bias out is tough to do.

    Did you read this part?

    "Simon Peter said, "Let Mary leave us, for women are not worthy of life."Jesus said, "I myself shall lead her in order to make her male so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."

    I'm not a woman, but . . . that's kind of creepy. BTW, your avatar photo is beautiful. Cheers.
    (more)
  • Lucy fo... seathan... 2009/10/20 21:56:19
    Lucy formerly of Finchley
    Did you happen to note the Chapter and Verse about Mary? Because I've read the whole Bible more than once, and I've never come across anything like that. It may be in the Apocrypha, which is the stuff the scholars ultimately decided to leave out of the Bible because some of it *was* creepy and thus sounded a bit suspect to the people who were compiling the Bible as we now know it. I actually haven't read a word of the article yet. Thanks so much for reading it and giving me your opinion. I hope we can have some more discussions sometime.As for my avatar, thank you very much!
  • seathan... Lucy fo... 2009/10/20 23:22:40
    seathanaich
    It was cut out from the form the Bible took at Nicea in 325, and the subsequent conferences. I thought is was quite fascinating, that bit. Let me know when you've read that bit. Cheers.
  • Mrs. V seathan... 2009/10/20 03:40:47
    Mrs. V
    You don't have to participate.
  • Fidelito 2009/10/19 19:24:47
    David
    Fidelito
    +1
    David, the Jews wanted a king not a God!
  • Dave Sa... Fidelito 2009/10/20 03:07:52
    Dave Sawyer ♥ Child of God ♥
    Read Judges chapter 9.
  • Fidelito Dave Sa... 2009/10/20 12:48:28
    Fidelito
    Thanx, I shall!
  • Javimendo 2009/10/19 17:48:42
    Someone else
    Javimendo
  • Dave Sa... Javimendo 2009/10/20 03:07:36
    Dave Sawyer ♥ Child of God ♥
    Read Judges chapter 9.
  • words to live by 2009/10/19 15:50:59 (edited)
    Someone else
    words to live by
    +1
    Saul is recognized as Israel’s first King because he was brought before the people and the Prophet Samuel anointed him as King. Years earlier, when the judges ruled in Israel, a man by the name of Abimelech made himself King of Israel.

    Abimelech declared himself King. Brings to mind how Fidel Castro became the leader of Cuba.


    Abimelech was the son of the Judge Gideon and a slave girl, who lived in Shechem. The people of Israel had asked Gideon to be their King, but he declined. Gideon felt God should be their King. Unfortunately Abimelech did not hold this point of view.



    Actually the only city that really recognized Abimelech as their King was Shechem. He ruled the rest of Israel by force. He was able to win Shechem’s confidence with the help of his uncles (Mother’s brothers).


    Once Abimelech had an army he went to Ophrah, where his seventy half brothers lived.


    He had all of them put to death, but Jotham, Gideon’s youngest son, was able to escape. Jotham climbed to the top of Mt.Gerizim and pronounced a curse upon Abimelech.


    In his curse Jotham told a story about some trees who sought a King. First they ask an olive tree, but he declined. And then they approached a fig tree and he also declined.


    The story was the same with the vine. Finally they asked a tho...
















    Saul is recognized as Israel’s first King because he was brought before the people and the Prophet Samuel anointed him as King. Years earlier, when the judges ruled in Israel, a man by the name of Abimelech made himself King of Israel.

    Abimelech declared himself King. Brings to mind how Fidel Castro became the leader of Cuba.


    Abimelech was the son of the Judge Gideon and a slave girl, who lived in Shechem. The people of Israel had asked Gideon to be their King, but he declined. Gideon felt God should be their King. Unfortunately Abimelech did not hold this point of view.



    Actually the only city that really recognized Abimelech as their King was Shechem. He ruled the rest of Israel by force. He was able to win Shechem’s confidence with the help of his uncles (Mother’s brothers).


    Once Abimelech had an army he went to Ophrah, where his seventy half brothers lived.


    He had all of them put to death, but Jotham, Gideon’s youngest son, was able to escape. Jotham climbed to the top of Mt.Gerizim and pronounced a curse upon Abimelech.


    In his curse Jotham told a story about some trees who sought a King. First they ask an olive tree, but he declined. And then they approached a fig tree and he also declined.


    The story was the same with the vine. Finally they asked a thorn bush and he promised to give them shade. But if they ever disobeyed him they would be burned. In this story the thorn bush is Abimelech and the trees are Shechem. Jotham was predicting the wrath of God on both.


    For three year Abimelech ruled Israel with Shechem as his headquaters. By now the people of Shechem was tired of him and there was a rise in the crime rate. Also at this time a man named Gaal and his brothers moved to Shechem. He was able to get the peoples support and held a great feast for them. Zebul, Governor of Shechem, pretended to support him, while sending messages to Abimelech of Gaal’s activities.


    One day Gaal notice that a group of people were appraoching. Zebul tried to convince he was only seeing the shadows of the mountains. But Gaal continued to look, until he recognized Abimelech was approaching with an Army. Gaal realized that Zebul was trying to trick him and rounded up the men of Shechem to face Abimelech. But he failed in his attempt and Gaal, along with his brothers, left Shechem.


    Even though Gaal had been defeated Abimelech sought vegeance on the people of Shechem. The next day as they were working in the fields, Abimelech attack them from three different directions. Afterward he torn down the city and had salt put on the ground.

    Many of the people of Shechem were put to death.


    Once Shechem had been destroyed Abimelech and his army went to Thebez. When the people of that city heard he was coming they sought refuge in the city tower. After Abimelech was inside the city he standing by the tower. Above an old women noticed him and dropped a mill stone on top of his head. Abimelech then ask his body guard to strike him with a sword so it would not be said, "Abimelech was killed by an old women."


    After Abimelech’s death, God called a man by the name of Tola to be Israel’s Judge. And peace was restored for twenty years.
    (more)
  • Dave Sa... words t... 2009/10/20 03:07:04
    Dave Sawyer ♥ Child of God ♥
    From your own description, it is clear that Abimelech's rule covered a lot more than the city of Shechem.
  • Ed - In Yahweh ("I will be ... 2009/10/19 13:02:29 (edited)
    Someone else
    Ed - In Yahweh ("I will be what I will be")  I Trust!
    +1
    Saul was the first annointed king of Israel - apart from the Creator God, Yahweh of Spiritual Armies, Dave. Moses was of course made a god (or lord) unto the children of Israel with his brother being his mouthpiece. Obviouly, this is a trick question.
  • Dave Sa... Ed - In... 2009/10/19 15:01:01
    Dave Sawyer ♥ Child of God ♥
    +1
    Read Judges chapter 9.
  • Ed - In... Dave Sa... 2009/10/20 11:17:08
    Ed - In Yahweh ("I will be what I will be")  I Trust!
    Well I never - although I have read that scripture a few times Dave, for some reason, due to having it stuck firmly in my head that Saul was the first annointed by the Creator as King of Israel, this Abimelech never seemed to stick in my mind - probably because he was a usurper of power and not chosen by God. Good question Dave!
  • goatman112003 2009/10/19 10:49:07
    Someone else
    goatman112003
    +1
    Saul was the first anointed King of Isreal.

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