Quantcast

Prosecutor Will Not Use Grand Jury in George Zimmerman Case: Smart or Sketchy?

SodaHead News 2012/04/10 13:00:00
You!
Add Photos & Videos
Special prosecutor Angela Corey has announced that she will not use a grand jury to decide whether or not indict George Zimmerman, the man who fatally shot Trayvon Martin, ABC News reports. She says a grand jury will not be necessary in making the decision and assures the public, "The decision should not be considered a factor in the final determination of the case."

Analysts are calling Corey's decision "bold" and "shocking" because grand juries can be used as political cover in controversial cases. Prosecutors can shift the burden of the decision (in this case, whether or not to indict Zimmerman) onto the jury to avoid public scrutiny. Some suspect the reason she bypassed a grand jury in the George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin case was to block racial agendas that have developed around the case in either direction. But was it the right move?

angela corey
Add a comment above

Top Opinion

  • C. C. Rider 2012/04/10 15:45:49 (edited)
    Smart
    C. C. Rider
    +32
    NOTICE ZIMMERMAN HAS BEEN ARRESTED ON 2nd DEGREE MURDER WITH NO BAIL





    Smart. She is going straight for the arrest and not waste time and our tax payers money on this racist murderer.


    zimmerman racist murderer zimmerman racist murderer

Sort By
  • Most Raves
  • Least Raves
  • Oldest
  • Newest
Opinions

  • Grammar... Axe Gri... 2012/04/15 15:21:19
    Grammar Freak
    +1
    Yeah, I must say that I've seen a hell of a lot of fist fights & I don't think anyone was ever afraid for their life just because they got beaten up.

    I mean, come on... a broken nose means you think you're going to die?
    What did Martin think as he was being pursued through the housing development? Was he afraid for his life?
    We don't know a hell of a lot about this case.
    But I think a guy with a gun is ALWAYS in the advantage & against an unarmed person, he can stop the violence without ending a life. I find the police department's snap judgement (acting as judge & jury themselves) a hindrance to the system & to justice in general.
  • Marshal... Winston... 2012/04/13 11:11:21
    Marshal Artz
    +1
    What broken nose? What split head? Minor injuries, only.
  • Axe Gri... Marshal... 2012/04/15 18:39:11
    Axe Grinder
    same thing I was thinking, compared to a slug to the chest !!
  • @TheMis... K. Katt 2012/04/12 01:14:59
    @TheMissesHelp <-Follow/Tweet me
    +1
    Yet start out with "your race is your race"...
  • K. Katt @TheMis... 2012/04/12 01:49:36
    K. Katt
    What does that mean?
  • Marshal... K. Katt 2012/04/12 12:59:44
    Marshal Artz
    Well if he happens to get off on this charge. That is just what he will be charged with by the federal prosecutor. Remember the Rodney King thing?
  • K. Katt Marshal... 2012/04/13 04:08:59
    K. Katt
    In the Rodney King case, the feds had jurisdiction because the civil rights violation was committed by government (LAPD), in Zimmerman's case, since he is a civilian their only way for jurisdiction is under a "hate crime" theory based on racial animus. In this case I think that is so weak that even the Obama-Holder DOJ, which has shown a strong racial bias so far, wouldn't want to try.
  • Marshal... K. Katt 2012/04/13 11:20:57
    Marshal Artz
    I think it will come to that, if he gets off of the charges against him presently. Can an aggressor in this type of crime, even plead self defense? In the end he has ruined his life, as he now knows it. And I think the parents will sue him, for wrongful death, and probably win. Just my opinion.
  • K. Katt Marshal... 2012/04/13 19:56:12
    K. Katt
    Of course we don't know all the facts, but based upon what I have seen/heard, I don't see where Zimmerman was ever the aggressor. The most you could say was that he was following Trayvon for a time. But, yes, he can claim self defense. The defense is not available to an aggressor, but the law recognizes
    that one who was initially the aggressor can withdraw and then the other party may or may not become the aggressor. There are extensive jury instructions in this area of the law. If Zimmerman's account and the eye witnesses who say Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman and hitting him is to be considered, then Trayvon would be the aggressor and Zimmerman has the right of self defense. I think what they will end up litigating whether or not the use of deadly force was reasonable under the circumstances, i.e., was Zimmerman in fear of death or great bodily injury? This could lead to a Manslaughter conviction, depending upon how the jury decides. Barring something very spectacular I don't see how he would convicted of 2nd degree murder.

    Probably the civil case would be easier since the burden of proof is simply "by a preponderance of the evidence", i.e., you only have to favor the plaintiff by 51%, whereas the criminal burden is "beyond a reasonable doubt and to a moral certaint...
    Of course we don't know all the facts, but based upon what I have seen/heard, I don't see where Zimmerman was ever the aggressor. The most you could say was that he was following Trayvon for a time. But, yes, he can claim self defense. The defense is not available to an aggressor, but the law recognizes
    that one who was initially the aggressor can withdraw and then the other party may or may not become the aggressor. There are extensive jury instructions in this area of the law. If Zimmerman's account and the eye witnesses who say Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman and hitting him is to be considered, then Trayvon would be the aggressor and Zimmerman has the right of self defense. I think what they will end up litigating whether or not the use of deadly force was reasonable under the circumstances, i.e., was Zimmerman in fear of death or great bodily injury? This could lead to a Manslaughter conviction, depending upon how the jury decides. Barring something very spectacular I don't see how he would convicted of 2nd degree murder.

    Probably the civil case would be easier since the burden of proof is simply "by a preponderance of the evidence", i.e., you only have to favor the plaintiff by 51%, whereas the criminal burden is "beyond a reasonable doubt and to a moral certainty". Self defense is available in the civil case also, but as I say the burden is less. The other factor is that Zimmerman probably has no money, so they may or may not bring a law suit. Most families of homicide victims don't bother unless the defendant has some ability to pay (like O.J.).
    (more)
  • Marshal... K. Katt 2012/04/14 00:17:30
    Marshal Artz
    I can't agree Zimmerman was not the aggressor when he was carrying a loaded gun, which he was not supposed to have while doing the security thing, was following the lad, when told not to. To me that adds up to aggression. I hope they have some security video of what happened, wouldn't that be great? Hey you can get in big trouble as an adult just slapping a minor, and the majority of the folk on this Soda Head want him to go home ,after he kills a minor.
  • K. Katt Marshal... 2012/04/14 09:07:22
    K. Katt
    Carrying a loaded gun while following someone does not make one an aggressor in any legal sense.
  • Marshal... K. Katt 2012/04/14 11:50:59
    Marshal Artz
    But the people on the jury may look at it as aggressive. He could have been carrying a hammer. This works both ways. We don't have a stand your ground type law in IA. but several years ago a guy broke into a garage, the owner confronted him, the intruder had a screw driver, the owner shot and killed the intruder. If I remember right, he was charged. They claimed the guy threatened him with the screw driver. My point is some people on that jury possibly will look at it the way I do. And it may be the difference. Jurors sometimes have their mind made up. Remember the OJ Simpson trial? Have a good day, I'm done on this case.
  • K. Katt Marshal... 2012/04/14 21:21:04
    K. Katt
    +1
    You could be right about that. Take care.
  • Grammar... K. Katt 2012/04/15 15:35:13
  • K. Katt Grammar... 2012/04/16 01:34:00
    K. Katt
    Maybe, but it was the right answer to the question posed to me.

    The police described blood on Zimmerman which was cleaned up by the paramedics. Also that his shirt on the back was wet and had grass stains. Supposedly he saw a Doctor the following day who reports that he does have a broken nose. Zimmerman wouldn't necessarily have Martin's blood on him. You make a lot of deductions from what you perceive the facts to be, however it is fairly easy to arrive at different conclusions and also to see the facts differently. This is something that the jury will most likely have to determine.
  • Grammar... K. Katt 2012/04/16 07:45:05
    Grammar Freak
    I'm all for the system being allowed to work. There are three minutes or so of time between the end of the phone call & the gun shot that are unaccounted for. We have to trust Zimmerman's word on what went down in that time. We have to trust a police department that has already proven itself to be untrustworthy in its lack of professionalism.

    It isn't that I don't believe that he was clobbered, but I don't recall ever seeing or hearing about a broken nose that didn't pour blood everywhere. Why was there none on his shirt? Hit does not necessarily mean broken.
    Were Martin on top of him when he shot him, Martin's blood surely would have been on him somewhere. Where are the clothes Zimmerman was wearing that night?

    You see, this is the problem I believe is at the core of the situation. The police did not investigate or examine the crime scene thoroughly that night at all. I think that is a far more important issue to the general public than even the guilt/innocence of Zimmerman.
  • K. Katt Grammar... 2012/04/16 22:53:44 (edited)
    K. Katt
    I am very experienced in the investigation and prosecution of homicides. I'll share my thoughts on your comments, again with the caveat that some of the things we have seen seem fairly reliable, but there are no doubt facts that have not been made public.

    First, the investigation sounds less than ideal but not way beyond the pale either. Zimmerman was first interviewed at the scene by a Narcotics Detective. That seems a bit unusual, but perhaps he was the only one available. Someone getting to a suspect quickly is often more important than who gets there. He was arrested and taken to the station where he was interrogated for several hours. Maybe by that time someone from Homicide was there. I don't know.

    Some critics point out that there was no DA at the scene. Perhaps it is typical in this part of Florida that a DA would come to the scene. Again I don't know. I worked in a very large metropolitan area and it was definitely not routine for a DA to show up at a crime scene.

    I don't find it surprising that they released Zimmerman. The first eyewitness who was watching the altercation from the window of his apartment said he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman and he was hitting him and Zimmerman was calling for help. He said he yelled at Zimmerman that he was calling the ...















    I am very experienced in the investigation and prosecution of homicides. I'll share my thoughts on your comments, again with the caveat that some of the things we have seen seem fairly reliable, but there are no doubt facts that have not been made public.

    First, the investigation sounds less than ideal but not way beyond the pale either. Zimmerman was first interviewed at the scene by a Narcotics Detective. That seems a bit unusual, but perhaps he was the only one available. Someone getting to a suspect quickly is often more important than who gets there. He was arrested and taken to the station where he was interrogated for several hours. Maybe by that time someone from Homicide was there. I don't know.

    Some critics point out that there was no DA at the scene. Perhaps it is typical in this part of Florida that a DA would come to the scene. Again I don't know. I worked in a very large metropolitan area and it was definitely not routine for a DA to show up at a crime scene.

    I don't find it surprising that they released Zimmerman. The first eyewitness who was watching the altercation from the window of his apartment said he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman and he was hitting him and Zimmerman was calling for help. He said he yelled at Zimmerman that he was calling the police and then went to the phone and did so. He said he heard the gunshot (I don't remember if he said just before or just after he made the call). By the time he returned to the window Zimmerman was up and Martin was in the prone position. Another eyewitness from another apartment window said more or less the same thing but he didn't see it with nearly as much detail.

    So from the police point of view, all the evidence dovetails with Zimmerman's story. It looks like a prima facie case of self defense. They were told by the DA that they did not have enough evidence for a filing. I would have agreed with that.

    They should have kept Zimmerman's clothes. I don't know if they did or not. Some accounts say that they did. I have heard that they returned his gun to him. If that is true, I would find that very unusual.

    I wouldn't expect to find Martin's blood on Zimmerman. Gunshot entrance wounds produce little or no blood. The bullet comes out very hot and sears the skin. The hot sooty gases contribute to that as well. This prevents tissue bleeding like you might get from cutting yourself with a blade which produces a lot of blood. Also since the skin is very elastic it retracts after the bullet has passed though leaving a hole that is smaller than the bullet that just entered. Blood, if any, will have to come from internal bleeding that finds it's way out of that small hole. If it happens, it doesn't happen right away. Martin was also wearing a shirt.

    Regarding the broken nose issue: The nasal area has thousands of small capillaries, some of which are typically broken in the usual case of a broken nose and usually causes bleeding from the nose. Sometimes if the break is minimal the bleeding is minimal also and doesn't make it out the nostrils before it coagulates. I notice a few people on the internet are claiming that they had, or knew some who had a broken nose and it did not bleed. I don't know if they are there just of help Zimmerman or whether it's true. The first two sentences I have seen medical support for.

    There are some sources that are claiming that Zimmerman did have a bloody nose. Again, I have no idea what is true.

    Obviously we are not in possession of all the information. But even with calling in the FBI, a Special Prosecutor, etc., and I haven't seen anything additionally incriminating that has been uncovered.

    Personally I think the filing of 2nd degree murder is politically motivated. But that's a long discussion for another time.

    Take care,
    (more)
  • Grammar... K. Katt 2012/04/18 11:14:52
    Grammar Freak
    Thank you for your discussion. I've worked for law enforcement, but not in it & not in the court system. So, though I have experience with the processes to a certain degree, not to the extent that you or someone like you has. Your educated opinion was exactly what I was looking for in this situation.

    As I said, I am most interested in the legitimacy of the procedures that took place within the agencies involved. To me, that is as or more interesting than the events of the night.

    It will be interesting to watch as this case unfolds more & more. The media will surely lose interest more over time, however, I hope not too much. I think the issues brought up because of this case are things that our nation needs to examine generally... police procedures, elitism, racism in agencies & in laws, fairness of our laws & use of laws, the media & its role in such situations/cases, the weight of taking a life, etc. There have been a broad range of issues & I hope that they are not forgotten about when the case is over.

    Thanks again. I appreciate your opinion & the time it took to give it.
  • K. Katt Grammar... 2012/04/18 23:38:34
    K. Katt
    +1
    Thank you. Glad to share my thoughts. And glad if any of it was helpful.

    I think this case will remain in the news. I would not be surprised to see it televised in the same way that the Casey Anthony case was. That would be a dream situation for the media.

    All the issues that you suggest will most likely be highlighted, discussed and written about for a time. How long it will last when it's over is anyone's guess.

    I will be very interested to see how the prosecution proceeds. This case is actually a nightmare for the prosecutor. If you imagine yourself to be the prosecutor and then ask what witnesses you will call, what you expect them to say and what pieces of evidence you will introduce and what you expect it to prove, it doesn't look very promising.

    Take care,
  • Grammar... K. Katt 2012/04/19 01:53:20
    Grammar Freak
    Could the prosecutor not use the idea that there were other options than killing Martin? Couldn't the fact that Martin was unarmed & Zimmerman's weapon gave him the clear advantage in the situation be used? He could have shot into the air, the dirt, Martin's shoulder or knee might be stated, or not? This guy was a Criminal Justice student who wanted to be a cop. So he should certainly have had some training in using his firearm, right? What do those programs teach? ...not to use your weapon unless absolutely necessary.
    Of course, I suppose those arguments could backfire because the Defense could say (basically), "Yes, that's all true. Now do you see that the Defendant must have felt he had not choice when he fired his weapon?"
    It's tricky, I certainly agree.
  • K. Katt Grammar... 2012/04/19 04:35:53
    K. Katt
    Probably the prosecutor will be reduced to making arguments similar to that. I don't see how he/she has anything other than to argue that deadly force was unreasonable under the circumstances. Unfortunately the circumstances will be defined by Zimmerman. That is part of the reason that I said this was a nightmare for the prosecutor. Every bit of available evidence and every witness that I am aware of essentially agrees with what I understand is Zimmerman's story. In order to even get in the game the prosecution will have to basically present Zimmerman's defense for him. In order to establish identity I assume he/she will have to offer Zimmerman's statements to the police which I assume are very self serving.

    It is hard to imagine where they can find any evidence to support the "depraved mind" requirement for 2nd degree murder.

    Two things are potential game changers in my opinion. If that shreik for help cannot be analyzed as not Zimmerman's, I think he's probably home free. If the jury believes that the cry for help is Zimmerman's then the "reasonable belief that one believes they face death or great bodily injury" may very well be satisfied. The other one is the broken nose issue. If Zimmerman truly has a broken nose, that alone is probably sufficient to equal great ...

    Probably the prosecutor will be reduced to making arguments similar to that. I don't see how he/she has anything other than to argue that deadly force was unreasonable under the circumstances. Unfortunately the circumstances will be defined by Zimmerman. That is part of the reason that I said this was a nightmare for the prosecutor. Every bit of available evidence and every witness that I am aware of essentially agrees with what I understand is Zimmerman's story. In order to even get in the game the prosecution will have to basically present Zimmerman's defense for him. In order to establish identity I assume he/she will have to offer Zimmerman's statements to the police which I assume are very self serving.

    It is hard to imagine where they can find any evidence to support the "depraved mind" requirement for 2nd degree murder.

    Two things are potential game changers in my opinion. If that shreik for help cannot be analyzed as not Zimmerman's, I think he's probably home free. If the jury believes that the cry for help is Zimmerman's then the "reasonable belief that one believes they face death or great bodily injury" may very well be satisfied. The other one is the broken nose issue. If Zimmerman truly has a broken nose, that alone is probably sufficient to equal great bodily injury. Then the great bodily injury fear is not just a theoretical one, since he actually suffered it. There is a lot of litigation in the criminal courts about what constitutes great bodily injury. A lot of crimes are enhanced (i.e., an additional 3 or 5 years for example) by a great bodily injury allegation. In other words the prosecutor charges someone with rape, robbery, etc. and adds a great bodily injury allegation. If the jury finds the defendant guilty they then determine whether the great bodily injury allegation is true. This has happened many many times and there are a large number of appeals based in whole or in part that the victim's injuries were not sufficient to constitute great bodily injury. Somewhere there is probably a case that said that a broken nose is sufficient. I've seen the appellate courts say that black eyes, facial lacerations etc., are sufficient. Less damage than you or I might think of as great bodily injury. So Zimmerman is likely to get a very favorable jury instruction as to what constitutes great bodily injury.

    Maybe there are some additional witnesses or some other evidence, since the special prosecutor did take a week or more to decide to file. We'll see.
    (more)
  • LaiLaiHart K. Katt 2012/05/17 03:51:43
    LaiLaiHart
    so why were blacks and whites divided over this issue? it wasnt because it was national arguement day. it is not a "jump",its the truth. he made trayvon out to be an animal with those scars he supposedly were given by trayvon. thats crap, he couldve obtained those injuries when he fell chasing trayvon and shot him because he was angry that he was getting away. the police said to stop chasing him. he continued chasing him, because he was black. all the boy had was a bag of skittles and some tea. OMFG zimmerman was in such danger, and he was armed with a gun.
  • K. Katt LaiLaiHart 2012/05/18 05:35:40
    K. Katt
    Get in touch with the real world. He was never chasing him. When the police said that they "didn't need him to do that" regarding his statement that he was following him and Zimmerman responded with an "OK" and then lost sight of him. Two eye-witnesses saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman hitting him.
  • LaiLaiHart K. Katt 2012/05/30 03:37:52
    LaiLaiHart
    HE SAID HE WAS CHASING HIM! THE POLICE SAID IM GOING TO NEED YOU TO NOT DO THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...
    YOU GET IN TOUCH WITH THE REAL WORLD!!!!!!! IF SOMEONE IS RUNNING AND YOU ARE FOLLOWING THEM,......................YOU ARE CHASING THEM!!!
  • K. Katt LaiLaiHart 2012/05/31 21:29:19 (edited)
    K. Katt
    Apparently you don't retain what you read. The actual transcript of the call is all over the internet. There is nothing there to suggest that what you say is accurate. http://www.documentcloud.org/...
  • LaiLaiHart K. Katt 2012/06/01 02:56:56
    LaiLaiHart
    okay seems you dont really get the logic of the situation and is too stuck in your ways to see someone elses point of view, so this conversation is over. hopefully one day you get your head out of your ass far enough to realize that we took a loss not you. thank you, god bless.
  • K. Katt LaiLaiHart 2012/06/07 21:08:11
    K. Katt
    Your logic is very simple. You say that if someone is running and you are following them, then you are chasing them. I get that. If you cannot read the transcript and see that it is more complex than that then it must be you that has your head up your ass. Sorry about your loss. But it is obvious that Trayvon brought it on himself by attacking Zimmerman.
  • LaiLaiHart K. Katt 2012/06/08 17:19:07
    LaiLaiHart
    i seriously doubt an unarmed kid with skittles and tea wouldve attacked some heavy dude twice his size with a loaded gun and a car. think logically, think like a smart person. im done arguing, lets just agree to disagree and move on. you dont lose, i dont lose, its just stupid to keep going back and forth about this. im simply trying to get my point across not start a war.
  • K. Katt LaiLaiHart 2012/06/16 01:37:48
    K. Katt
    The witnesses say Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman punching him. He has the broken nose and lacerations. Also Trayvon was much bigger than Zimmerman. Don't be confused by the fact that they keep showing pictures of him when he was 11 or 12.
  • LaiLaiHart K. Katt 2012/07/04 03:05:08
  • K. Katt LaiLaiHart 2012/07/08 09:31:32
    K. Katt
    You must just read comic books. They have showed the police photos taken immediately after the arrest that show the lacerations and blood. Trayvon has been reported as 6'2, 6'3 etc., and Zimmerman is 5'8, 5'9. Do you think he paid those guys who were watching from their apartments and said they saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman punching him in the face?
  • LaiLaiHart K. Katt 2012/09/02 08:45:39
  • K. Katt LaiLaiHart 2012/09/07 00:56:42
    K. Katt
    I doubt it. In order to sense something you would need a brain.
  • LaiLaiHart K. Katt 2012/10/06 14:26:50
    LaiLaiHart
    oh wow, really mature. insult me. Are you getting angry sweetie? Is my argument stronger than yours? Do you always insult people? Are you angry? You should see someone about that anger problem.
  • K. Katt LaiLaiHart 2012/10/12 23:15:27
    K. Katt
    What is there about any of this that would anger me?
  • LaiLaiHart K. Katt 2012/10/14 11:47:27
    LaiLaiHart
    sweetie youre throwing out insults as if im trayvon and youre zimmerman. that last comment wasnt necessary. muah !
  • K. Katt LaiLaiHart 2012/10/19 05:04:45
    K. Katt
    My last comment was to ask you why any of this should anger me. Is that what you are referring to?
  • LaiLaiHart K. Katt 2012/10/19 16:15:08 (edited)
    LaiLaiHart
    i am referring to the entire conversation between you and i. i just made my opinion known, and you made it personal. you threw up insults because you believed that you were right. i tried on numerous occasions to agree to disagree with you, to end this pointless argument and move on, but apparently that wasnt enough, because you just wouldnt let it go.
  • K. Katt LaiLaiHart 2012/10/25 23:31:48
    K. Katt
    You've been far more aggressive and insulting than I have. Probably because, unlike me, you really are angry about the incident.
  • mark 1 LaiLaiHart 2012/04/12 02:08:20
    mark 1
    +2
    He is not white so maybe the topic should be blacks and spanish.

See Votes by State

The map above displays the winning answer by region.

News & Politics

2013/05/19 21:35:38

Hot Questions on SodaHead
More Hot Questions

More Community More Originals