Pro-life battle: win or lose?

by Temlakos~POTL~PWCM~JLA~☆ Posted 2012/10/20 21:45:30

Related Topics: Abortion, Family, Christian, Birth Control, Pro-life, Voters, Families, Looks Like, Birth, Testify, Creation

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	He's right. Pro-life people should be all in, and that means no birth control.	14 votes	16%
	Birth control doesn't (most of the time) involve killing. Abortion always does.	29 votes	33%
	The pro-life cause is wrong-headed, anyway.	29 votes	33%
	I don't know what to make of this.	15 votes	17%

A Christian activist--creation advocate, pro-life, name it--lays it on the line. Pro-life advocates need to knock off using birth control. For one thing, some of those birth-control agents work as abortifacients. For another, it's a matter of motive. Why shy away from children? How can a pro-life advocate testify effectively against abortion if he or she uses something that just works a little sooner?

And for a third--he asks everybody to think about what a mother with a large "brood" looks like. What impression she gives. How she can make people think.

To say nothing of the obvious consideration: if the Christians had the large families, they'd outnumber the opposing voters within a generation.

How does that sound?

+12

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zbacku 2012/10/20 22:12:46

Birth control doesn't (most of the time) involve killing. Abortion always does.

+8
Birth control using condoms or birth control pills do not kill unborn babies.
Abortion kills babies.
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Buoyant Leadraft 2012/10/25 20:09:52

The pro-life cause is wrong-headed, anyway.

I think Human fetus make a wonderful anti-aging cream... that's what i heard anyway!!!

I hope its cheap when it hits the market!

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Idiot repubs 2012/10/24 16:08:48

The pro-life cause is wrong-headed, anyway.

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xcheshirecat 2012/10/24 15:45:59

Birth control doesn't (most of the time) involve killing. Abortion always does.

+2
well not my exact answer but this :
They believe life starts at conception, Stopping conception isn't killing something in their values

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lynn 2012/10/23 17:11:17

The pro-life cause is wrong-headed, anyway.

There is an obvious difference between life and the potential for life. Once a foetus is viable-- capable of living on its' own, outside the mothers' womb-- it is, in reality, alive. I would even support the idea of acknowledging life when the foetus is capable of some form of sentience, especially feeling pain. But to try to say a slab of frozen embryos or an egg in a sac constitutes independent life on the same level as a living, breathing, thinking person is nothing more than radical nonsense. The entire "pro-life" movement is a new invention, based upon the arrogant notion that human life is somehow semi-divine, hence the ever-growing level of extremism we witness within the movement, from the idea that even a threat to the life of the mother or a pregnancy resulting from rape should not justify an abortion. There was a time when "pro-lifers" were all for birth control, even claiming to support a "morning after" pill if it would help end abortion. Well, that pill was eventually marketed, but by then the movement had become so extreme even the "morning after" pill was viewed as an abortive. Now, apparently, standard contraceptives have-- in the twisted rationale of the pro-lifers-- come to be viewed as an "abortive". The pro-lifers remind me of the anti-smokers, giv...

There is an obvious difference between life and the potential for life. Once a foetus is viable-- capable of living on its' own, outside the mothers' womb-- it is, in reality, alive. I would even support the idea of acknowledging life when the foetus is capable of some form of sentience, especially feeling pain. But to try to say a slab of frozen embryos or an egg in a sac constitutes independent life on the same level as a living, breathing, thinking person is nothing more than radical nonsense. The entire "pro-life" movement is a new invention, based upon the arrogant notion that human life is somehow semi-divine, hence the ever-growing level of extremism we witness within the movement, from the idea that even a threat to the life of the mother or a pregnancy resulting from rape should not justify an abortion. There was a time when "pro-lifers" were all for birth control, even claiming to support a "morning after" pill if it would help end abortion. Well, that pill was eventually marketed, but by then the movement had become so extreme even the "morning after" pill was viewed as an abortive. Now, apparently, standard contraceptives have-- in the twisted rationale of the pro-lifers-- come to be viewed as an "abortive". The pro-lifers remind me of the anti-smokers, give them an inch and they want every square inch of land the world over.

And yes, the whole "pro-life" indoctrination was largely invented by the Catholic church to vastly increase its' numbers. The more children Catholics produce, the more Catholics the Church commands. Remember, Catholicism/Christianity was invented by the faultering Roman Empire, therefore an empirical philosophy serves as the foundation for the faith. The evangelical Christians (whose forerunners long ago abandoned the Catholic church and its' papacy) are finally coming around and seeing that by opposing abortion and birth control on supposedly spiritual principles, they are (at least they hope) assuring a much greater number under their control in the future. More people, more money, more power.
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mk, Smartass Oracle 2012/10/23 10:53:24

I don't know what to make of this.

This is an issue that has been with the country way too long. There is no simple solution

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BigFig#9 2012/10/22 22:49:13

The pro-life cause is wrong-headed, anyway.

+1
Sorry - the planet can't host or absorb population growth at current rates...Birth Control is always better and safer than a surgical procedure and I accept and understand (don't agree) with people who have moral issues with abortion but opposing birth control is immoral and ultimately supports Malthusian misery on a global level.

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Ken 2012/10/22 13:40:04

I don't know what to make of this.

When two sides go to war as the pro-life and pro-choice sides have, everyone loses. This country needs to find a compromise which respects the rights of everyone, including the fetus. Such a compromise will not happen as long as either side insists on winning.

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flrdsgns 2012/10/22 03:01:19

He's right. Pro-life people should be all in, and that means no birth control.

+2
If they're so pro-life, let them put there money where their mouth is and no birth control whatsoever.

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Singerar 2012/10/22 02:07:01

The pro-life cause is wrong-headed, anyway.

+2
Roe vs. Wade will NOT be overturned. Neither President will reverse it. Remember, Romney has NEVER been against Roe vs. Wade. Just last year, he stated he was Pro-Choice. It's just another of his flip-flop issues.

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4CommonSense 2012/10/22 01:40:06

He's right. Pro-life people should be all in, and that means no birth control.

Pro Life means just what it says. PRO LIFE. What makes me sick is these woman that say that they have a choice and it is their body. Who do they think created them? The storke? They are only the home for about 9 months in which God's creation is birthed. Do these women go into their body and form the hands the feet, to say nothing about the brain, heart, liver, kidneys and let's not forget the muscles and the vaines. This is all done by the hand of God. Oh, I forgot that all this time and time again could be by "chance."

FYI. All you woman just provided God's egg and a place for God's creation to grow. It is God's gift to you. HOW DARE YOU THINK THAT YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE WHAT HAPPENS TO GOD'S CREATED LIFE.

You want your choice than CREATE YOUR OWN EGG FROM NOTHING.

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Pedalpusher 2012/10/21 19:40:07

Birth control doesn't (most of the time) involve killing. Abortion always does.

I kind of disagree with one analogy there about birth control pills having the same effect as killing a child only earlier. Not so, if you go that far than you can say every man that puts out sperm (by the hundreds and only one gets fertile then he's killing 99.9% of the rest of his sperm as they are saying it has the potential to make a baby!
Most birth control pills are "combination pills" containing a combination of the hormones estrogen and progesterone to prevent ovulation (the release of an egg during the monthly cycle). A woman cannot get pregnant if she doesn't ovulate because there is no egg to be fertilized. The woman does not normally get fertilized on birth control. there are a few that have. So she is wrong about Birth Control causing abortions, you can't abort anything that was never started. Plus there are other things than the pills, like one they inject in their arm that last for 6 mos. Birth control is not killing babies, it's Preventing fertilization.

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SoCalEx-Dem 2012/10/21 17:49:44

He's right. Pro-life people should be all in, and that means no birth control.

To many types of birth control cause other problems, you see the ads all the time for attorneys to sue the makers of yaz and many other birth controls for death and all types of disorders. I have never used or advocated for birth control, rubbers work good enough and they cause no permanent damage.

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Pedalpu... to SoCalEx... 2012/10/21 19:46:16

+1
A diaphragm or other types do also.

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Bibliophilic 2012/10/21 17:29:36

The pro-life cause is wrong-headed, anyway.

+1
I support choice.

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lolitalovely 2012/10/21 17:23:35

I don't know what to make of this.

I'm not pro-life, but I do know that if I were pro-life for some reason that I would never say birth control is bad.I know too many people on birth control to make their ovaries work properly to say birth control is anything but helpful. Without birth control people with Poly-Cystic Ovaries (PCOS) would find it hard to ever reproduce (Of course it's impossible to have children on the pill, but the first 2 weeks after they stop taking it people with PCOS are much more likely to get pregnant than they were without the pill) and would be at high risk of ovarian cancer. I'm sure it can help with other problems too.

We could debate pro-life/pro-choice all day, but it's not going to matter. This argument is so old and frankly boring. Neither side is speaking the same language and they never will. Everybody has different ideas on why humans deserve more rights than any other creature, what situation justifies each action, etcetera. We all have different cultures. Those cultures have given each of us a slightly different definition of the lingo in this argument. I don't see this changing anytime soon, so I feel arguing about it is a waste of time. Can we just move on to something else. (not tires please.)

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Beccy 2012/10/21 16:50:58

Birth control doesn't (most of the time) involve killing. Abortion always does.

+1
As the oldest child of two parents who divorced and went on to have large families I have to disagree with this. In totdays economy I think people should only have as many children as they can afford and love

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Donald Eric Kesler 2012/10/21 14:10:49

The pro-life cause is wrong-headed, anyway.

+2
Neither science nor religion has established when human life commences. In a free society with a secular government, each individual should have the ability to follow the dictates of their own conscience without interference from an overreaching state.

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bill.fleming.77 2012/10/21 11:16:38

I don't know what to make of this.

+1
just tired of this discussion from all sides. Bigger things to focus on

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Lady Whitewolf 2012/10/21 10:29:06

The pro-life cause is wrong-headed, anyway.

+1
NUFF SAID

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RG 2012/10/21 04:57:30 (edited)

He's right. Pro-life people should be all in, and that means no birth control.

+1
The fruit of the union of a man and woman, the child, is a blessing. Let it be received in joy, love and thandsgiving, for is it not true that love begets love?

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Meako to RG 2012/10/21 10:34:13

+2
When do you stop having them after 3, 7 or 20?

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DoxieDad 2012/10/21 04:15:44

The pro-life cause is wrong-headed, anyway.

+2
Why can't the anti-choice crowd practice what they preach and leave the rest of us alone?
Why can't the pro-choice crowd practice what they preach and leave the rest us alone?

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Rodney 2012/10/21 03:31:46

I don't know what to make of this.

+1
Never having fathered any children, I don't really have an opinion. If men would accept the responsibility, there wouldn't be the need for the pill. I oppose altering the natural hum chemistry anyway. Noting good comes of chemical ingestion. Whether it be in our food, drink or pills distributed for reason of alleged medical assistance. I can attest to what healthy diet and living can do. I have not had to see a doctor for so much as a check up for more then 20 years.

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Huntclan 2012/10/21 03:22:28

He's right. Pro-life people should be all in, and that means no birth control.

+1
No need for a pill. There are other cheaper and safer ways of preventing pregnancy.

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Jana ♥ ♥ ♥ 2012/10/21 03:20:04

Birth control doesn't (most of the time) involve killing. Abortion always does.

+1
I personally do not like the idea of abortions,as they do kill babies.And I do think that a life that has already started needs to be able to have a chance just like all of us.I also dont think people should be so irresponsible to have unprotected sex .If they are responsible enough to make the baby then they should be responsible enough to have and look after that baby, not take it's life because they decided they did not want it.It's not a piece of trash that you can just throw away,remember it's a living thing.

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Elleryqueen 2012/10/21 02:54:53

Birth control doesn't (most of the time) involve killing. Abortion always does.

For those of you who do not know, the Catholics do recognize two birth controls. Selfadenial and noassatall.

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SoCalEx... to Elleryq... 2012/10/21 17:58:38

+1
Actually we practice the rhythm method, which works.

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jeepster4 2012/10/21 02:37:44

I don't know what to make of this.

+2
If you were required by some governing body require one to use birth control or abortions were required by government in the USA, a conservative activist would have an argument. There is no such requirement in this country. But our country has a group that is changing laws in the USA daily to restrict both abortions and birth control. This is the goal that the Muslim right and Christian right share. Does any one here care to tackle why right wing nut jobs of all faiths want to interject themselves in to every one's bedrooms.

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lynn to jeepster4 2012/10/23 17:20:45

+1
Because their foundation is in fundamentalism, and fundamentalism-- literal and absolute interpretation of some religious doctrine-- results in a breaking away from scientific rationale and logical reasoning. It doesn't matter what religion, the fundamentalism is the problem. It takes the gullible from the perspective of common sense to that of wild-eyed zealot.

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jeepster4 to lynn 2012/10/24 03:27:34

+2
I think you have just described whats wrong with all religious fundamentalists.

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lynn to jeepster4 2012/10/24 19:39:28

+1
Thanks, just an observation, but I do think an accurate one.

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andy15554 2012/10/21 02:34:44

Birth control doesn't (most of the time) involve killing. Abortion always does.

+1
There is one thing for sure, we should not pay for any abortions. I'd pay to sterilize them, but no abortions, they want one they pay for it.

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▼♥☆Greencone☆♥▼ PB90s 2012/10/21 02:27:28

The pro-life cause is wrong-headed, anyway.

+1
Actually I think it is more hypocrytical to be against abortion and birth control as birth control helps to prevent abortion be preventing unwanted pregnancies.

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nerak611 2012/10/21 02:06:08

The pro-life cause is wrong-headed, anyway.

+4
I don't get it at all....use no birth control, no abortions, and want to cut out aid to those who need it? Makes NO SENSE!

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rt 2012/10/21 00:46:55

I don't know what to make of this.

+1
One party seems to think it is okay to abort them before they are born and the other party thinks it is okay to starve them after they are born.

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Mary Mary to rt 2012/10/21 01:15:52

+2
iTA...rt

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rt to Mary Mary 2012/10/21 16:14:56

Good article. I personally am against abortion other than to save a mothers life like in the case of a tubal pregnancy. The baby in those cases wouldn't have survived anyway.

My point was help support those who can't afford the kids they have or supply contraception so they don't have them. The party against abortion don't want to do either. They would rather allow a child to live a life of starvation and misery. The stress this causes families also leads to child abuse.

Don't abort them but help the families that don't want more kids and help the families that can't afford to feed and care for the kids they have.

At one time I voted straight anti-abortion. I can no longer do that because the anti- abortion party is also the party of elitist greed with no compassion for those living in the lower classes, the party I want to vote for doesn't exist.

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rich 2012/10/21 00:46:50

He's right. Pro-life people should be all in, and that means no birth control.

If you want to get right down to it, he is right. Sex is usually stated as being for procreation, not recreation in most religions that have opinions. Men rewrote a lot of stuff to suit their needs, and now, they want to beat up on women when they've left them to fix the results of their actions. You have all that conviction, stick to it! Or shut up. What's that, sex every couple of years, for a fertile Christian woman and man? Sounds right. It would fix a lot of stuff in the world, for sure, and abortion would not be an issue! Quit half stepping! Believe your beliefs! LOL

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zapped 2012/10/21 00:36:46

I don't know what to make of this.

the use of birth control keeps the mother from conceiving , and the right to choose an abortion is up to the mother , rape / incest ...but at the 1st trimester only ,,,though I do believe life begins at the point of conception !

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RG to zapped 2012/10/21 04:39:49

Actually a woman can get pregnant while using birth control pills. Usually the egg is fertilized in the falopian tube. The lining of the uterus is soft. While using "the pill" the lining becomes thicker and harder, so when the fertilized egg travels down the tube to implant itself in the lining wall it will not be able to penitrate the wall for attachment. The zygote is then sloughed off (aborted)

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