I am really interested in why you want your candidate to be President of the United States. Please explain what you particularly like about either President Obama or Mitt Romney. Negative comments about opposing candidates or comments about alternate party candidates are not part of this poll and neither is undecided. Only respond if you support one of the two major party candidates for President and please tell us what you like about him..
President Obama because I appreciate his leadership in handling the economic crisis, his handling of our foreign policy, his dignified and intelligent handling of his duties as President in these last three years. I would like very much to see what he will be able to accomplish in his second term.
Why replace one ass with a bigger ass . Romney has nothing but taking more from the little guy and giving rich more tax breaks for outsourcing to the commies .
I keep hoping that some Mitt Romney supporter actually likes something about him. If you all just want him because he's not President Obama, it's going to make for a sad election for you all!
I'm really voting for the underlying philosophy of conservatism: self-reliance, smaller government, and hopefully, fiscal sanity. That's not available on the left.
Is that the fiscal sanity that led up to the economic collapse of 2008, or the fiscal sanity that has obstructed the recovery from the economic collapse and accelerated the transfer of wealth toward the wealthiest people while continuing the destruction of the middle class in this country? In other words there is a big difference between the GOP rhetoric and their actions in the last couple of decades.
Anyway voting for conservatism when you are conservative is a reasonable choice. I just think this is a sad era for conservatives.
You mean Wall Street? That's not gov't spending. But if you're referring to Fannie and Freddie, that had liberalism all over it with Frank and Dodd at the helm.
Obstructed the recovery? How? Are you referring to TARP 2 and all those "shovel ready" jobs Obama said was there? Or the "green" initiative with Solyndra leading the way? Lol
How is allowing people to keep the money they earned a transfer of wealth? It was thiers to begin with, they earned it. If you remember your economics 101, transfer payments is the taking by government from those who have and giving it to those who don't or have less, even though they did nothing to earn this gov't largess.
As far as the middle class here in the States, they're competing with middle classes in other countries and they need to be more competitive to survive. In many cases, they've prices themselves out of the market. That's why companies relocate manufacturing elsewhere.
No I do not mean Wall Street or that silly excuses the rightwing feed their base. Massive deregulation, corruption of regulatory agencies, large tax cuts while funding two wars on money borrowed from foreign competitors are the main reasons behind the economic collapse.
TARP 2 is not an excuse for the unprecedented use of the filibuster causing Congress to be all but non functioning. TARP was very instrumental in buying the time to slow the collapse and begin to get the economy moving again. You can pick specifics of a large program to complain about, but hopefully you understand this country would not be better off if we were in the midst of a deep great depression which is where we were headed in 2008.
People who work for a living are generally not those benefiting from the 'transfer of wealth' tax system that folks like Mitt Romney benefit from. A tax system that allows the wealthiest to gain massive wealth off the work of others and pay much less of the income their gain than people who work keep of the income they earn. I guess your economics class didn't prepare you to understand what's happening in this country where the government Congress and tax system take from the working class and give to those who have much more than they could ever use, who already gain/de...
No I do not mean Wall Street or that silly excuses the rightwing feed their base. Massive deregulation, corruption of regulatory agencies, large tax cuts while funding two wars on money borrowed from foreign competitors are the main reasons behind the economic collapse.
TARP 2 is not an excuse for the unprecedented use of the filibuster causing Congress to be all but non functioning. TARP was very instrumental in buying the time to slow the collapse and begin to get the economy moving again. You can pick specifics of a large program to complain about, but hopefully you understand this country would not be better off if we were in the midst of a deep great depression which is where we were headed in 2008.
People who work for a living are generally not those benefiting from the 'transfer of wealth' tax system that folks like Mitt Romney benefit from. A tax system that allows the wealthiest to gain massive wealth off the work of others and pay much less of the income their gain than people who work keep of the income they earn. I guess your economics class didn't prepare you to understand what's happening in this country where the government Congress and tax system take from the working class and give to those who have much more than they could ever use, who already gain/derive their income from the work of the working class.
As you are not likely one of the wealthy who are doing this, you are probably one of the people who buy the propaganda that allows them to continue to increase their share of the wealth forcing more Americans into poverty. If you want to be a tool for the transfer of wealth from the middle class you certainly can continue to buy such nonsense, but you are being used. Your statement that the middle class needs to be as impoverished as the working classes in the third world countries that the American worker is expected to 'compete' with in the GOP outsourced new world order utopia you envision is ridiculous. Laws were changed that allowed this to happen to the middle class and the result of those changes is a country where no one, including you, would want to live. Short term foolish thinking!!!
This chart shows the distribution of wealth from several years ago before the economy collapsed. The redistribution has sped ahead dramatically with the wealthy gaining a much larger share while most Americans (the people who actually work and produce) are struggling for their bites of an ever shrinking slice.
You are entitled to believe nonsense if you like, but a world shaped by what you are supporting will produce a feudal system that I doubt you would like more than any of the rest of us.
No, it was the CDO's (bundled mortgages) that Fannie, Freddie and Wall Street pedaled that brought on the collapse. Not the 2 wars.
Tarp 1 did avert a systemic failure, that I'm convinced of, but Tarp 2 was questionable to begin with and debatable on whether it was needed or effective. I think you/me/ we might be surprised at how much the economy can mend itself without Gov't interference.
Who is transferring what to whom? Keeping more of what you earned is not a transfer, period. The "wealthy" pay on the same tax scale as you, I and everyone else, including Buffets secretary on wages and salary, and the "wealthy" pay the same rate as you, I and everyone else on capital gains and dividends, including Buffets secretary.
Those assets accumulated are generally bought with after tax dollars and any gain will eventually be taxed when sold. There is nothing wrong with that share of the American pie.
What utter nonsense! The wealthy do not earn their income and the certainly do not pay on the same tax scale as people who work, produce, and earn their incomes. They made sure of that years ago. Gained income is taxed much lower than earned income. They wealthy gain their income off the backs of working Americans, fix the system so they don't pay for taxes what working people pay on their incomes, and are never satisfied that they have taken enough from those who earn instead of gaining their wealth.
Honestly we could go on debating this, but if you see nothing wrong with half of Americans scrambling for a nibble from that tiny shrinking slice of the American pie while the gluttons are sucking their life blood, gorging themselves, and barfing all over them, we really have zero common ground from which to discuss anything.
Of course they earned their income, they worked hard, scrimped and saved and you want to demonize them for their success.
I go through this with so many misinformed resentful liberals:
The wealthy pay on the same tax scale on salary and wages as you, me and everyone else, including Buffets secretary and even Warren himself. The wealthy also pay the same rate on dividends and capital gains as you, me and everyone else, including Buffets secretary and even Warren himself.
The Dems are intentionally comparing different types of incomes to confuse their following... and they have succeeded in large part. They are comparing apples and oranges. These rates are available to you, too, not just the so-called wealthy.
The liberal resentment is not a philosophy that will serve you well. Quit demonizing success, embrace it. You will be much happier.
I'm neither misinformed not resentful, but I am liberal and not foolish enough to fall for that sort of rhetorical manipulation of the facts. You know as well as I do that 'the wealthy' are paying the lower investment and capital gains tax rates while the working class pays the higher earned income tax rates.
Unless you are very wealthy defending a structure that is transferring the wealth of this nation from the working middle class to the wealthiest Americans is not serving you well. And even if you are extremely wealthy and benefiting from the messed up tax system it still isn't serving your interests unless you want to live in the mess this is creating. What made this nation strong was having a strong working middle class and having a system where everyone had the opportunity to excel. Greed has changed that. No one is demonizing success. But no one in their right mind pities the wealthy for having to pay their taxes while spitting on the poor for not making enough to contribute much. Truly sad excuse for values.
They pay the same rate as you and I, period. Your comparing wages/salary and capital gains/dividends. They are two different types of income. You and I pay on the same tax scale on wages and salary and at the same rate on dividends and capital gains, period. There isn't another one for Warren Buffet. You are seriously confused.
No one is transferring anything to the wealthy; allowing someone to keep more of what they earned is not a transfer. Go back to economics 101.
Yes, your greed and resentment is evident and will not serve you well and no one is holding you back other than you. You sound like a professional victim, just what the democrats want.
I don't know if you are intentionally being nonsensical or if you are one of those people who get a talking point and can do no more than repeat it continually. I am very aware of how the system has been tweaked to allow income for those who gain wealth off the labor of others to pay much less in taxes than those who work for their income. I have made that clear in the last several posts.
I, like the President and Warren Buffet, am saying that system is ridiculous. There is no reasonable excuse for those who work hard for their income to be taxed at a higher rate than those who gain income off their investments and the labor of others.
Of course there has been a steady redistribution of wealth being transferred from the shrinking middle class to the wealthiest Americans over the last several decades and accelerating in this century. There is no question that this is taking place or that the tax system is the source of this transfer of wealth. It is amazing to me that you would discuss this subject and not be aware of this basic indisputable fact.
I have zero greed or resentment toward anyone. I care about this country and what is being done to it and the future we are harming by not adequately addressing this problem,
I am an older woman. While we took a hit in 2008 ...
I don't know if you are intentionally being nonsensical or if you are one of those people who get a talking point and can do no more than repeat it continually. I am very aware of how the system has been tweaked to allow income for those who gain wealth off the labor of others to pay much less in taxes than those who work for their income. I have made that clear in the last several posts.
I, like the President and Warren Buffet, am saying that system is ridiculous. There is no reasonable excuse for those who work hard for their income to be taxed at a higher rate than those who gain income off their investments and the labor of others.
Of course there has been a steady redistribution of wealth being transferred from the shrinking middle class to the wealthiest Americans over the last several decades and accelerating in this century. There is no question that this is taking place or that the tax system is the source of this transfer of wealth. It is amazing to me that you would discuss this subject and not be aware of this basic indisputable fact.
I have zero greed or resentment toward anyone. I care about this country and what is being done to it and the future we are harming by not adequately addressing this problem,
I am an older woman. While we took a hit in 2008 like most older Americans, we are doing just fine because we have always been responsible members of the middle class. My concern is for the country we are going to leave for our children and grandchildren. I want to leave them a country with a thriving middle class and a safety net for those less fortunate, like the country I grew up in. I do not want to leave them a country where they will be seen as serfs or wage slaves, serving wealthy and corporate interests. If you have a problem with that it's your problem.
If you can not support your point of view without resorting to your silly empty insults, please go away so I don't have to block you. This is my poll and I do not have to put up with your nonsense.
You are so blinded by resentment and caught up in class warfare. All these sources of income and all these rates are available to all.
And talk about spewing forth the same ole, same ole.... All your doing is voting to raise taxes on everyone, especially retirees who derive a lot of their income from capital gains and dividend, and no, I'm not talking about the upper crust, I'm talking about everyday people like you and me. How about cutting government spending? That's a novel concept to many on the left.
I would suggest your step back and take an objective look at what you're saying and you will see the nonsense in what you're proposing. And yes it is resentment and class warfare in it's purest form.
Insult? Sorry that you consider different opinions an insult. If you wish to block, by all means. I view it as a badge of honor. Have a great day. :-)
Another silly assumption. What has been discussed about raising that tax rate is always discussed with an exception for retirement savings up to a debatable level for the reason that it would exempt genuine retirement plans and be directed at those whose enormous incomes are being taxed at the rate that was supposed to support middle class Americans' retirement savings efforts.
Of course I understand that mom and pop's retirement was used to manipulate acceptance of this tax system, but I don't think anyone is fooled by that anymore especially when people like Romney have the vast majority of their annual income taxed at that rate.
Class warfare is real and it has been waged on the poor and middle class for decades while the wealthy who are waging it cry that's class warfare every time they steal more from the rest of America. There was never a chance that people wouldn't notice what was being done to them eventually.
***You know perfectly well that I am not complaining about you holding silly views, that you can't actually support. I am objecting to your insults and assumptions and since you can't seem to control yourself or see past your own prejudices you will have to find someone else to talk to. So you are welcome to consider this a badge of honor, but might do bett...
Another silly assumption. What has been discussed about raising that tax rate is always discussed with an exception for retirement savings up to a debatable level for the reason that it would exempt genuine retirement plans and be directed at those whose enormous incomes are being taxed at the rate that was supposed to support middle class Americans' retirement savings efforts.
Of course I understand that mom and pop's retirement was used to manipulate acceptance of this tax system, but I don't think anyone is fooled by that anymore especially when people like Romney have the vast majority of their annual income taxed at that rate.
Class warfare is real and it has been waged on the poor and middle class for decades while the wealthy who are waging it cry that's class warfare every time they steal more from the rest of America. There was never a chance that people wouldn't notice what was being done to them eventually.
***You know perfectly well that I am not complaining about you holding silly views, that you can't actually support. I am objecting to your insults and assumptions and since you can't seem to control yourself or see past your own prejudices you will have to find someone else to talk to. So you are welcome to consider this a badge of honor, but might do better to learn how to support your perspective without making foolish assumptions and insults.
While honesty is to be admired, are there specific things you like about Mitt Romney that aren't demonstrably untrue and that would indicate that he would be a good President?
President Obama because I appreciate his leadership in handling the economic crisis, his handling of our foreign policy, his dignified and intelligent handling of his duties as President in these last three years. I would like very much to see what he will be able to accomplish in his second term.
See he looks just like me
Anyway voting for conservatism when you are conservative is a reasonable choice. I just think this is a sad era for conservatives.
Obstructed the recovery? How? Are you referring to TARP 2 and all those "shovel ready" jobs Obama said was there? Or the "green" initiative with Solyndra leading the way? Lol
How is allowing people to keep the money they earned a transfer of wealth? It was thiers to begin with, they earned it. If you remember your economics 101, transfer payments is the taking by government from those who have and giving it to those who don't or have less, even though they did nothing to earn this gov't largess.
As far as the middle class here in the States, they're competing with middle classes in other countries and they need to be more competitive to survive. In many cases, they've prices themselves out of the market. That's why companies relocate manufacturing elsewhere.
TARP 2 is not an excuse for the unprecedented use of the filibuster causing Congress to be all but non functioning. TARP was very instrumental in buying the time to slow the collapse and begin to get the economy moving again. You can pick specifics of a large program to complain about, but hopefully you understand this country would not be better off if we were in the midst of a deep great depression which is where we were headed in 2008.
People who work for a living are generally not those benefiting from the 'transfer of wealth' tax system that folks like Mitt Romney benefit from. A tax system that allows the wealthiest to gain massive wealth off the work of others and pay much less of the income their gain than people who work keep of the income they earn. I guess your economics class didn't prepare you to understand what's happening in this country where the government Congress and tax system take from the working class and give to those who have much more than they could ever use, who already gain/de...
TARP 2 is not an excuse for the unprecedented use of the filibuster causing Congress to be all but non functioning. TARP was very instrumental in buying the time to slow the collapse and begin to get the economy moving again. You can pick specifics of a large program to complain about, but hopefully you understand this country would not be better off if we were in the midst of a deep great depression which is where we were headed in 2008.
People who work for a living are generally not those benefiting from the 'transfer of wealth' tax system that folks like Mitt Romney benefit from. A tax system that allows the wealthiest to gain massive wealth off the work of others and pay much less of the income their gain than people who work keep of the income they earn. I guess your economics class didn't prepare you to understand what's happening in this country where the government Congress and tax system take from the working class and give to those who have much more than they could ever use, who already gain/derive their income from the work of the working class.
As you are not likely one of the wealthy who are doing this, you are probably one of the people who buy the propaganda that allows them to continue to increase their share of the wealth forcing more Americans into poverty. If you want to be a tool for the transfer of wealth from the middle class you certainly can continue to buy such nonsense, but you are being used. Your statement that the middle class needs to be as impoverished as the working classes in the third world countries that the American worker is expected to 'compete' with in the GOP outsourced new world order utopia you envision is ridiculous. Laws were changed that allowed this to happen to the middle class and the result of those changes is a country where no one, including you, would want to live. Short term foolish thinking!!!
This chart shows the distribution of wealth from several years ago before the economy collapsed. The redistribution has sped ahead dramatically with the wealthy gaining a much larger share while most Americans (the people who actually work and produce) are struggling for their bites of an ever shrinking slice.
You are entitled to believe nonsense if you like, but a world shaped by what you are supporting will produce a feudal system that I doubt you would like more than any of the rest of us.
Tarp 1 did avert a systemic failure, that I'm convinced of, but Tarp 2 was questionable to begin with and debatable on whether it was needed or effective. I think you/me/ we might be surprised at how much the economy can mend itself without Gov't interference.
Who is transferring what to whom? Keeping more of what you earned is not a transfer, period. The "wealthy" pay on the same tax scale as you, I and everyone else, including Buffets secretary on wages and salary, and the "wealthy" pay the same rate as you, I and everyone else on capital gains and dividends, including Buffets secretary.
The "wealthy" pay more than their fair share:
http://www.usatoday.com/money...
It's time everyone pitches in.
Those assets accumulated are generally bought with after tax dollars and any gain will eventually be taxed when sold. There is nothing wrong with that share of the American pie.
Honestly we could go on debating this, but if you see nothing wrong with half of Americans scrambling for a nibble from that tiny shrinking slice of the American pie while the gluttons are sucking their life blood, gorging themselves, and barfing all over them, we really have zero common ground from which to discuss anything.
So God Bless you and have a good life!
I go through this with so many misinformed resentful liberals:
The wealthy pay on the same tax scale on salary and wages as you, me and everyone else, including Buffets secretary and even Warren himself. The wealthy also pay the same rate on dividends and capital gains as you, me and everyone else, including Buffets secretary and even Warren himself.
The Dems are intentionally comparing different types of incomes to confuse their following... and they have succeeded in large part. They are comparing apples and oranges. These rates are available to you, too, not just the so-called wealthy.
The liberal resentment is not a philosophy that will serve you well. Quit demonizing success, embrace it. You will be much happier.
Unless you are very wealthy defending a structure that is transferring the wealth of this nation from the working middle class to the wealthiest Americans is not serving you well. And even if you are extremely wealthy and benefiting from the messed up tax system it still isn't serving your interests unless you want to live in the mess this is creating. What made this nation strong was having a strong working middle class and having a system where everyone had the opportunity to excel. Greed has changed that. No one is demonizing success. But no one in their right mind pities the wealthy for having to pay their taxes while spitting on the poor for not making enough to contribute much. Truly sad excuse for values.
No one is transferring anything to the wealthy; allowing someone to keep more of what they earned is not a transfer. Go back to economics 101.
Yes, your greed and resentment is evident and will not serve you well and no one is holding you back other than you. You sound like a professional victim, just what the democrats want.
I, like the President and Warren Buffet, am saying that system is ridiculous. There is no reasonable excuse for those who work hard for their income to be taxed at a higher rate than those who gain income off their investments and the labor of others.
Of course there has been a steady redistribution of wealth being transferred from the shrinking middle class to the wealthiest Americans over the last several decades and accelerating in this century. There is no question that this is taking place or that the tax system is the source of this transfer of wealth. It is amazing to me that you would discuss this subject and not be aware of this basic indisputable fact.
I have zero greed or resentment toward anyone. I care about this country and what is being done to it and the future we are harming by not adequately addressing this problem,
I am an older woman. While we took a hit in 2008 ...
I, like the President and Warren Buffet, am saying that system is ridiculous. There is no reasonable excuse for those who work hard for their income to be taxed at a higher rate than those who gain income off their investments and the labor of others.
Of course there has been a steady redistribution of wealth being transferred from the shrinking middle class to the wealthiest Americans over the last several decades and accelerating in this century. There is no question that this is taking place or that the tax system is the source of this transfer of wealth. It is amazing to me that you would discuss this subject and not be aware of this basic indisputable fact.
I have zero greed or resentment toward anyone. I care about this country and what is being done to it and the future we are harming by not adequately addressing this problem,
I am an older woman. While we took a hit in 2008 like most older Americans, we are doing just fine because we have always been responsible members of the middle class. My concern is for the country we are going to leave for our children and grandchildren. I want to leave them a country with a thriving middle class and a safety net for those less fortunate, like the country I grew up in. I do not want to leave them a country where they will be seen as serfs or wage slaves, serving wealthy and corporate interests. If you have a problem with that it's your problem.
If you can not support your point of view without resorting to your silly empty insults, please go away so I don't have to block you. This is my poll and I do not have to put up with your nonsense.
And talk about spewing forth the same ole, same ole.... All your doing is voting to raise taxes on everyone, especially retirees who derive a lot of their income from capital gains and dividend, and no, I'm not talking about the upper crust, I'm talking about everyday people like you and me. How about cutting government spending? That's a novel concept to many on the left.
I would suggest your step back and take an objective look at what you're saying and you will see the nonsense in what you're proposing. And yes it is resentment and class warfare in it's purest form.
Insult? Sorry that you consider different opinions an insult. If you wish to block, by all means. I view it as a badge of honor. Have a great day. :-)
PS- Get a better argument.
Of course I understand that mom and pop's retirement was used to manipulate acceptance of this tax system, but I don't think anyone is fooled by that anymore especially when people like Romney have the vast majority of their annual income taxed at that rate.
Class warfare is real and it has been waged on the poor and middle class for decades while the wealthy who are waging it cry that's class warfare every time they steal more from the rest of America. There was never a chance that people wouldn't notice what was being done to them eventually.
***You know perfectly well that I am not complaining about you holding silly views, that you can't actually support. I am objecting to your insults and assumptions and since you can't seem to control yourself or see past your own prejudices you will have to find someone else to talk to. So you are welcome to consider this a badge of honor, but might do bett...
Of course I understand that mom and pop's retirement was used to manipulate acceptance of this tax system, but I don't think anyone is fooled by that anymore especially when people like Romney have the vast majority of their annual income taxed at that rate.
Class warfare is real and it has been waged on the poor and middle class for decades while the wealthy who are waging it cry that's class warfare every time they steal more from the rest of America. There was never a chance that people wouldn't notice what was being done to them eventually.
***You know perfectly well that I am not complaining about you holding silly views, that you can't actually support. I am objecting to your insults and assumptions and since you can't seem to control yourself or see past your own prejudices you will have to find someone else to talk to. So you are welcome to consider this a badge of honor, but might do better to learn how to support your perspective without making foolish assumptions and insults.
President Obama because I appreciate his leadership in handling the economic crisis, his handling of our foreign policy, his dignified and intelligent handling of his duties as President in these last three years. I would like very much to see what he will be able to accomplish in his second term.