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Phoenix Woman Ordered to Not Give Out Water in 112 Degree Heat Because She Lacked a Permit: Absurd or Appropriate?

Heisenberg 2012/08/21 23:00:00
Related Topics: Weird News, Summer, Heat, Hot
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REASON.COM reports:
This is what government is all about. Forget roads, mass murder through warfare, or locking people up for their consumption choices: it's making sure that no one gives out water without a permit.
giving out water

Read More: http://reason.com/blog/2012/08/20/phoenix-woman-or...

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Top Opinion

  • sglmom 2012/08/21 22:47:16
    Absurd
    sglmom
    +11
    Asinine ..
    (Government needs to BUTT OUT of this .. seriously .. sealed bottled water .. in High Heat .. would they rather have folks pass out from Heat Stroke and possibly die?)

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  • Mimosa 2012/08/22 16:17:45
    Absurd
    Mimosa
    +2
    The state of Arizona is run by sun stroked idiots
  • Anarchico Anthony 2012/08/22 16:10:09
    Absurd
    Anarchico Anthony
    +4
    This is exactly what the country has become. STUPID. Government needs to be overthrown and started over.
  • jason 2012/08/22 15:40:39
    Absurd
    jason
    +4
    Insane is more like it. Or criminal.
  • Barbi Rose 2012/08/22 15:30:00
    Absurd
    Barbi Rose
    +3
    Again yet more money to the government for what you can be illegal but you can't give away free water???
  • Christopher Kirchen 2012/08/22 15:20:17
    Absurd
    Christopher Kirchen
    +4
    Permits are just a way for governments to make money and be able to grease the right palms for their own purposes. I live in the Chicago area so I see evidence of this all the time.
  • Dan Hawkins 2012/08/22 15:17:53
    Absurd
    Dan Hawkins
    +4
    There is something seriously wrong with the elected officials in Phoenix.
  • Barbi Rose Dan Haw... 2012/08/22 15:30:39
    Barbi Rose
    +3
    I think if if was an illegal with illegal water it would be just fine!
  • Bill Barbi Rose 2012/08/22 16:10:57
    Bill
    +4
    You read my mind, and indeed, giving water to illegal aliens goes on every day of the year. Liberal hypocrisy at its worst.
  • Georgia50 Bill 2012/08/22 21:43:37
    Georgia50
    +2
    Really. The City of Phoenix probably maintains these for illegals.
    agua tank in desert
  • Bill Dan Haw... 2012/08/22 16:12:45 (edited)
    Bill
    +1
    By the way, Phoenix is also known for being the kidnapping capital of the United States but giving out free water is their number one priority.
  • thє вluє wαndєrєr 2012/08/22 15:16:50
  • Prepper Politics 2012/08/22 15:04:55
    Absurd
    Prepper Politics
    +6
    Are you Fking kidding me???? A permit to give out free water? She's already losing money buying water and giving it out, bit the city wants her to buy a permit? Asshats!
  • thє вlu... Prepper... 2012/08/22 15:18:02
  • Prepper... thє вlu... 2012/08/22 15:18:49
    Prepper Politics
    +2
    Sounds like it. I wouldn't mind living is AZ, but not Pheonix.
  • Chris La 2012/08/22 15:03:57
    Absurd
    Chris La
    +2
    This is ridiculous. Obviously, she should give the water out. She should also report to some authority that this is happening. The person could just be a homeless guy but is probably an illegal that needs to be picked up.
  • thє вlu... Chris La 2012/08/22 15:18:37
  • You Know IT 2012/08/22 14:57:15
    Absurd
    You Know IT
    +1
    Although it's absurd there are reasons behind it. Say she was crazy, she could have been handing out poisoned water, but still if the water cap is sealed correctly i dont think that matters, unless she had the time t fix all the little things that hold the cap on...
  • shrfu31 2012/08/22 14:57:07 (edited)
    Appropriate
    shrfu31
    +3
    Whole story: She was giving out free water during a festival that had accompanying concessions stands and her group engaged in religions solicitations at the same time.

    Go into a church: Stand in the back and offer your own service for a different (or the same denomination). See how long that lasts.

    Go into McDonald's and give out hamburgers. See how long that lasts before they kick you out. Then turn around and say you are going to sue.

    This is what her group did. She offered concessions in a place where there were permit holders who paid to be able to offer their goods to the crowd of festival goers.

    Come on. This is a waste of taxpayer time and money. Why are we applauding such a dumb lawsuit?!

    http://www.abc15.com//dpp/new...
  • Adam shrfu31 2012/08/22 20:41:33
    Adam
    +1
    People have a constitutional right to free speech and free exercise of religion.

    McDonalds does not stand the same test as their buildings are privately owned.
  • shrfu31 Adam 2012/08/24 14:30:36
    shrfu31
    Your rights stop where another's begins. People paid to have the right to sell water and concessions to a captive crowd. Her group did not pay to have that right. It was a protected event that required permits.

    You have the right to chop down trees. You do not have the right to chop down protected redwoods or others in conservation areas. It is the same thing. You can yell fire in your house and you can yell fire in a movie theater, those are your right. However, the other side has the right to respond to your actions with their own as long as its within their own rights. Lol.

    Tl;dr her group was not allowed to undercut others without a permit because it was a special event. If they wanted, they could have applied for a permit just like everyone else did and do things the right, approved way.

    We have laws. People need to follow them as long as they make sense/constitutional.
  • Adam shrfu31 2012/08/24 18:20:04
    Adam
    +1
    Lets be more specific here. Your Constitutional rights ends where another's Constitutional rights begin. There is no constitutional restriction that allows the government to require permits to exercise freedom of religion.
  • shrfu31 Adam 2012/08/25 11:08:25
    shrfu31
    How much more specific can I be?

    This wasn't about religious freedom.

    She got in trouble because her group was giving out water.

    You need a permit to vend at events. Her group neglected to acquire one.

    People got upset by this because "big government shouldn't be bossing around the little people"

    The whole story: her group was giving out water during a special permit requiring event. EVERY other VENDOR followed the law and had to get a vending license. Her group chose not to do this. We have laws saying you need to have a permit. Her group broke the law. Why would you defend someone who flagrantly disrespects sensible laws on the book?

    PS. The reason we have these laws is for safety. 1.Popular areas would be flooded with vendors if they could come and go as they please. Limiting the amount of vendors allows for the patrons to actually be able to enjoy the show and for the vendors to have adequate space in which to work.

    2. Safety and standards. The reason you feel comfortable about eating at restaraunts and other places is because any food served or product sold has to meet minimum standards. It may not be a perfect system (nothing is perfect) but I would prefer it way over any other because 99.99999% times I eat out, I don't get sick. Try getting that in other cou...

    How much more specific can I be?

    This wasn't about religious freedom.

    She got in trouble because her group was giving out water.

    You need a permit to vend at events. Her group neglected to acquire one.

    People got upset by this because "big government shouldn't be bossing around the little people"

    The whole story: her group was giving out water during a special permit requiring event. EVERY other VENDOR followed the law and had to get a vending license. Her group chose not to do this. We have laws saying you need to have a permit. Her group broke the law. Why would you defend someone who flagrantly disrespects sensible laws on the book?

    PS. The reason we have these laws is for safety. 1.Popular areas would be flooded with vendors if they could come and go as they please. Limiting the amount of vendors allows for the patrons to actually be able to enjoy the show and for the vendors to have adequate space in which to work.

    2. Safety and standards. The reason you feel comfortable about eating at restaraunts and other places is because any food served or product sold has to meet minimum standards. It may not be a perfect system (nothing is perfect) but I would prefer it way over any other because 99.99999% times I eat out, I don't get sick. Try getting that in other countries.

    Bonus: This wasn't about religious freedom at all. However, go into a McDonald's and start preaching. See how long that lasts. Because this was a private event, it is afforded the same protections. Just like how Mick Jagger can't just show up to a random church on Sunday and put on a concert, a church group cannot come to an event, annoy the people and then be allowed to sue for their 1st Amendment right. No one is stopping her from exercising her religion, but her group should not be doing it at an event the city is holding without getting their permit first. They were just crashing and sorta hoped they could get attention. Now they want a lawsuit? Since when do we allow criminals who broke into a home to sue the homeowner for kicking them out.? They had no right to be there as a group giving out water because that required a permit. They had no right to be evangelizing because they had no permit. Now if they wanted to attend it as private citizens that is another story.
    (more)
  • Adam shrfu31 2012/08/26 19:09:37
    Adam
    Those who replace freedom with security deserve neither. You can not require a permit to give away free stuff, unless you are a property owner and it is your property.
  • shrfu31 Adam 2012/08/28 14:53:51 (edited)
    shrfu31
    Inappropriate use of that quote (rant at bottom).

    The state was the property owner. That is why they are able to require a permit.

    This is just the government and capitalism. In order to serve the people, the government has to create an environment in which it is conducive for people to thrive. Businesses are run by people. They lobbied for an ability to create temporary monopolies to allow them "more equal" access to customers. A permit is just a way for the early birds or smaller businesses to get the worm and not have to worry about some bigger groups being able to force their way to the prime spot because of their size. They protect the environment by preventing too many business from showing up in the same place. They protect the smaller businesses to not be crowded out. They protect the customers themselves so that there is a clear distinction between vending areas (aka places where you are harassed into buying something) and the event itself. They provide a useful order to situations.

    Now about your quote.
    Do you know those backscatter X-Ray machines are made/designed in India? Do you know the Indian government DENIED their use because they felt they were too intrusive for their citizens?

    I cannot believe this. We are supposed to be the freest country in the world and here ...





    Inappropriate use of that quote (rant at bottom).

    The state was the property owner. That is why they are able to require a permit.

    This is just the government and capitalism. In order to serve the people, the government has to create an environment in which it is conducive for people to thrive. Businesses are run by people. They lobbied for an ability to create temporary monopolies to allow them "more equal" access to customers. A permit is just a way for the early birds or smaller businesses to get the worm and not have to worry about some bigger groups being able to force their way to the prime spot because of their size. They protect the environment by preventing too many business from showing up in the same place. They protect the smaller businesses to not be crowded out. They protect the customers themselves so that there is a clear distinction between vending areas (aka places where you are harassed into buying something) and the event itself. They provide a useful order to situations.

    Now about your quote.
    Do you know those backscatter X-Ray machines are made/designed in India? Do you know the Indian government DENIED their use because they felt they were too intrusive for their citizens?

    I cannot believe this. We are supposed to be the freest country in the world and here is an example of another country getting a freedom (right to privacy in an airport) that we are not getting.

    I get angry everyday when I think about what happened to our Airlines. I cannot believe the overreaction our government had to 9/11. Why in the WORLD are we going to inconvenience BILLIONS to "protect" against an event that has only happened one time in the history of airplanes? Why not arm pilots? Air Marshalls? Just a potential outcome for flying,perhaps? Better security and instructions for the pilots like orders to do *blank* regardless of the situation. "Wouldn't that make those people more likely to be 'sacrificed'? Is that any worse than sacrificing every person in the entire world who flies through America (including Americans), freedom and right to privacy? How long do the searches have to go on? 1 year, 5 years, 10 years? Well, we are already past that.

    I did not fight for my country just so I can be stripped when I go through an airport. In the 90's you could fly with a machete and a portable stove. Now, I can't even bring a water bottle because it might be an explosive? But "Hey, it's okay, just let me through this potential explosive in the garbage can next to your feet, that is cool."

    I get frustrated thinking about how many sheep there are out there who just accept this as a way of life.
    (more)
  • Adam shrfu31 2012/08/29 01:54:02
    Adam
    The government is responsible for allowing freely the rights enumerated in the Constitution.
  • Ron Hanforth 2012/08/22 14:37:13
    Absurd
    Ron Hanforth
    +5
    yep, and then there is the story of the guy that goes to all the restaurants collecting unsold bread and whatnot to deliver to homeless people and was told to stop it because there was no way to tell how fresh the food was.. As opposed to the dumpsters that they have to scrounge thru which are perfectly acceptable.
  • Franklin 2012/08/22 14:32:06
    Absurd
    Franklin
    +4
    welcome to the USSA where you need a permit for everything , you even need a permit to file for a permit !- LOL
  • Bill 2012/08/22 14:24:26 (edited)
    Absurd
    Bill
    +3
    This is why liberal nannies need to be booted out of the U.S. and state governments.



    In California we have no less that 3500 of these asinine laws, which attempt to control your day to day personal life. Everything from banning happy means and mylar balloons to outlawing circumcism. Not to mention drivers licenses and free college education for illegal aliens.

    GET THESE SOCIALISTS OUT OF OUR GOVERNMENT!!!
  • Kern 2012/08/22 14:07:03
    Absurd
    Kern
    +3
    This is one of those cases when a law runs over common sense. Vending is a serious business and you would be surprised at the steps some vendors take to keep their market share; yes, even vendors like hot dog stands. The law was most likely created for either health safety to ensure that vending in that area is kept fair.

    In this case it doesn't sound like she was inhibiting any business. Also, even though it was bottled water, and she wasn't charging for it, the laws in Phoenix may prevent someone from giving away a product that could be sold by another vender. Usually, these types of laws have some geographical stipulations. However, in this case it seems more like a woman wanting to spread the word of her religion.

    It does sound like they over stepped their bounds. Good thing there's a civil liberties organization helping her.
  • Bulanova (Team Hargitay) 2012/08/22 14:06:13
    Absurd
    Bulanova (Team Hargitay)
    +2
    Let's hear it for bureaucracy!
  • Shigyrl but outspoken on my... 2012/08/22 13:57:09
    Absurd
    Shigyrl but outspoken on my future
    +4
    Governnment regulation going to far once again.
  • Professor Wizard 2012/08/22 13:47:37
    Absurd
    Professor Wizard
    +4
    I am not surprised... Such is very typical for today's governments, big and small.

    Government is out of control with controlling things.

    Government does not care about hungry or thirsty people - - it only cares about enforcement of law and ordinance. Government is blind to reality - and only sees in black and white what is written.

    Government is now a giant machine... self perpetuating, self regulating, self maintained... all knowing, all controlling.
  • BoomLover Profess... 2012/08/22 14:56:14
    BoomLover
    +1
    Hence the phrase..."Rage against the Machine!"
  • Will_The_Kid 2012/08/22 13:46:43
    Absurd
    Will_The_Kid
    +1
    I think people are taking this two ways: 1) In your opinion, is the law absurd or appropriate, or 2) Was it absurd the law was enforced. IMO, it should be yes and then no. I think the law is absurd, but enforcing the law is not.
  • T A Will_Th... 2012/08/23 07:47:46
    T A
    Cops have discretion. They chose not to use it. It's 2 for 2.
  • Will_Th... T A 2012/08/23 11:25:48
    Will_The_Kid
    So your saying the cops didn't have to enforce the law because they thought it was silly. There are many silly laws. Cops are required to enforce them. The solution is not telling the Cops to ignore the law or have discretion, it's get rid of the law. Can't blame Cops for doing their jobs.
  • T A Will_Th... 2012/08/23 17:38:44 (edited)
    T A
    Cops selectively enforce legislation on a regular basis. DA's selectively prosecute on a daily basis. The reality is that any legislation criminalizing peaceful behavior is invalid and should be ignored by the public on principle and unenforced by police for the same reason. Enforcement of unjust laws is a moral crime as it is an unjust or criminal use of force against the innocent.
  • Will_Th... T A 2012/08/23 18:14:27
    Will_The_Kid
    I don't disagree that Cops selectively enforce legislation. However, that's not a valid argument. This was a regulation that was in place. They enforced the regulation. Period. It's not relevant that they could have looked the other way. And it doesn't really matter what YOU think is moral or not. It's a law.

    Let's take another example of a silly law: Marijuana is illegal. Even though an officer has the choice to look the other way they are still required (supposed) to charge the suspect. You and I may think that it's a ridiculous law, but we can't be mad at the Cops. We need to go to the people who make laws and get it changed.

    We are both arguing that this is absurd, but your getting mad at the wrong people.
  • RandyScott 2012/08/22 13:46:03
    Absurd
    RandyScott
    +5
    I guess only the Government is allowed to give things away. They certainly have no problem with giving away our tax dollars.

    I applaud this woman for trying to do something good for her community.
  • hilda 2012/08/22 13:37:33

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