Obamacare: who pays for the ER visit for those who choose to opt for the fine?

The purpose of the penalty provisions is to make a revenue source to reimburse Medicare and Medicaid for the costs they bear for such things as ER visits by uninsured. Either they buy insurance or they pay a penalty that is, in it's own way, a pool of money just like private insurance. Understanding this, it is amazing that anyone could object to this method of getting the freeloaders to pay their share of costs they create.

It should be pay-as-you-go for the patient, but we all know how that turns out.

The person who makes the visit. If they have insurance their insurance should take care of it (at least part of it, depending on the plan) Otherwise- they are liable.

But they won't pay and that will drive up insurance rates again. It is funny how those who are insured pay very high rates to help compensate providers for the free care they provide.

Same who pay today under the existing old system, Obama Care has not fully enacted as yet. The uninsured are covered by the tax payer. Under the ACA, many more people will have coverage and their ins. will cover it. Far fewer uninsured will need to be covered by the taxpayer. That is how it works in theory as in when people cooperate for the cause of all of us. Opting out as far as I am concerned makes one a freeloader. Isn't that what the cons say about those on welfare?

It's still going to be on your back until it can be amended to make the penalty stiffer than the health insurance.

lol.....where else could the money possibly come from? Obama's pocket? No, WE will pay and pay and pay and pay and in return, we'll get sub-standard healthcare when they get around to us.

...which is the situation as it is now. It's good that those choosing not to join the pool of insureds will have to pay a fine. Maybe that will finally help to balance things out a little.

Actually, the answer options to the question here are poorly worded. People on both sides of this issue could conceivably be correct by choosing either answer. Hmmm....

the same people who do now: those who have insurance. But, fines will at least offset it to some extent.

you mean the TAX right?
You don't do as the gov says so you have to pay a fine/tax....sounds like NKorea or China not the US....

the other people who opt for the fine - - so, I guess, it actually IS the taxpayers, in a way. but not ALL taxpayers. only the others who opt out.
the fines all go into a pool and that pool is then used to pay the hospitals that treat the uninsured.

Nothing changes at all, 22million people continue without health insurance under Obamacare.

I really love it when people like you, "Charge," make statements like that without showing us proof. Show us proof of that comment, please, and make sure it comes from a reliable, verifiable source - not someone's blog or Faux News. [Of course, if you're talking about 22 million people who will refuse to join the pool of insureds, that's another story altogether, and we don't know those numbers yet.]

Oh, it's 23million.
You have to get the info from several sources.
A new report by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office states that by 2016, Obamacare will result in 4 million people fewer people getting health insurance coverage from their employers.
So, here is the answer according to the estimates of the Congressional Budget Office:

The largest share of those who will continue to go without health insurance coverage, once the ACA is in full force and effect,and representing a full 1/3 of those all who will remain uninsured, are illegal immigrants working and living in the United States.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/r...

Who pays the fine when the 15 million who are poor say they can't afford it?

The IRS will get them......

have you read the bill?
do the people who can't afford insurance pay taxes? most do not.
the ONLY thing the IRS can do is garnishee tax refunds. that's it. it's included in the bill in very specific language.

Do You honestly think it will stop there... please.

The 'poor'? They probably won't have to file income tax. Or if they do, they'll have no refund to attach. And then when the IRS starts hauling in poor folks, they'll raise hell and we'll pay it for them.

Right so what does Obamacare, with 23million uninsured, really accomplish?

Not a damn thing except substandard care, less research, long waits and chaos. And obama said that we would have the same insurance as congress..........right! No way! He lied and this bill should be voided based on the lies, threats, coercion, blackmail etc.

Don't forget all that new revenue going to the IRS.

But that's peanuts.............my sister just had two major surgeries. Hospital billed over $100k!!

That's my point, other than creating 21 new or increased taxes what does Obamacare actually do.... nothing except confusion and a boon to insurance and drug companies.

Absolutely! And if drug companies are held to a minimum by the government, what happens to research and development? If doctors are being paid less per patient, then they're going to overbook and that means a long wait, cancellations and re-booking. Add to that all of the newly insured who are going to be running to the doctor every time they sneeze and you'll never get an appointment for you cancer scare.

This is going to be one holy mess and I think Pelosi and obama are both going to regret this one day in the near future.

This is what happens when you have to pass a bill in order to be allowed to read it.

Exactly!

there are pools that make the insurance affordable - - unless, of course, the governors of the specific states opt out - - as several Republican governors promise to do.

Rick Scott [22% Rick] of Florida has promised to do so - - and he'll be gone in 2014 [there are a number of reasons his approval rating is at 22% and he just added another.]

Poor people have Medicaid.

And who pays for Medicaid? We do.

The ACA doesn't change that. We would still be paying for Medicaid regardless of any new healthcare laws such as Obamacare. What it does change are things affecting the middle class. And there are lots of people who won't have to go bankrupt or be forced to sell their homes any more to pay for medical bills! (We were the only industrialized country where that ever happened in modern times.)

If they can't afford the fine and it's discharged........you will pay it.
If they need healthcare anyway.....you will pay it.
If it's subsidized..........you will pay it.
and IF you can't even get an appointment.........you will still pay it.

Louisa, that's great rhetoric, but it's short on facts. Why not actually check out the facts before going into "rote" mode like that?

So WHO do you think will pay for those who don't contribute? From obama's personal bank account? Where do you think the government gets its money? Oh....are you the one who thought obama was going to her car payment and rent?

The poor have Medicaid.

Are you saying that the 10's of millions without insurance is a fictitious problem?

About the use of the emergency room. It apparently does not take long for even the idiotic comments made by the Demoncrat leadership to make it into the lexicon. About two days after Pelosi said that the 1% that can afford health insurance and don't buy it go to the emergency room when they get sick and the rest of us pay for their care, made it into my local paper (in WI) from a citizen.

Only problem is that that 1% when they get sick pay out of pocket when they get sick. It costs us (US) nothing. And those folks actually end up paying a lower fee than is charged those on insurance.

I can assure you that when the poor and uninsured in Texas show up at the ER, they do not pay a cent . Every visit to an ER costs an average of $2000. Pay that out of pocket ? LOL !!!

In '96, a law was passed that says that hospitals have the right to go after those who cannot/do not pay. But hospitals do not have those kind of resouces to play detective, so the uninsured are covered by those with insurance ( premium hikes) and through property taxes and through all those hospital hidden "fees" ... like the $400 Aspirin that doesn't show up on your tab until months later.

You can't change the parameters of the discussion midstream. The Pelosi quote was "Pelosi said that the 1% that can afford health insurance and don't buy it go to the emergency room". We have been regaled with the 1% vs the 99% since we were first invaded by the OWS crowd. The 1% often don't buy insurance because they don't need it. Plus in paying out of pocket they even save money. A media personality was on a hiatus and found themselves in need of medical attention. One test that would cost any of us with insurance $3,000, cost them $1,500 out of pocket.

"(H)ospitals have the right to go after those who cannot/do not pay." No detective is needed, simply send a bill to the patients address. Failure to actually pay they can sell it as a bad debt to a collection house, and wash their hands of it. As a result get a tax deduction on the bad debt, plus the boot in the cost to other patients.

I am fairly conversant with hospital bills from the birth of my daughter. I also found out that the insurance company doesn't care.

So...DuncanONeil...what do you think happens to those same people when they come down with, say, cancer? Know what it costs to treat cancer? THAT is why there are so many bankruptcies and forced home sales - when people can't afford to pay for their major care out-of-pocket. That is why the ACA is so important and needed.