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Obama care pass, who will give in first? The government or the Catholic church

Cheese 2012/06/30 20:17:58
The Government
The Catholic Church
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  • AL 2012/07/02 06:11:10 (edited)
    The Government
    AL
    Obama knows if he doesn't give in to the Catholic Churches FREEDOM OF RELIGION-They're never going to comply with his new tax- by paying an insurence company to give abortions and Birth control anyway! I just don't think the American people are ready to see the learders of the Catholic Church go to Jail or prison over their own FREEDOM of Religion
  • Skeptikat 2012/07/01 11:54:31
  • Cheese Skeptikat 2012/07/01 20:38:51
    Cheese
    +1
    Vatican must pay taxes on non-religious property, from which it previously enjoyed an exemption. So the Vatican it self is not being tax
  • Skeptikat Cheese 2012/07/02 09:33:39
  • Cheese Skeptikat 2012/07/02 15:24:35
    Cheese
    +1
    I think to a point they should stay out, but that's me
  • Skeptikat Cheese 2012/07/02 15:31:18
  • Cheese Skeptikat 2012/07/02 16:49:31
    Cheese
    +1
    let me rephrase what i said, i think a church can get involed if it's freedoms are at stake, like forcing it to take insurance that goes against its teaching which is happening now
  • Skeptikat Cheese 2012/07/02 17:21:41
  • Cheese Skeptikat 2012/07/02 22:33:54
    Cheese
    +1
    If a church cannot get involved in politics or interfere with secular laws then by all rights, politics and secular laws cannot get involved with the church and need to remain out of the churches business and views. If I walked into a school for wicca and asked for a job, it would be very wrong of me to ask and expect Sundays off for me to go to a Catholic Mass. What should be done on that is to find a job that lets me have my religious beliefs and to not try to change my employer or his standards. So if someone working in the Catholic hospital is upset because they wont supply birth control, then the person should find another job in another hospital. It is illegal to discriminate based on religion, sex, or color, but they are not saying they will not hire you if you are not Catholic, what they are saying is that if you want to work here you will not get coverage for some things. or here are the rules now abide by them, and if you don't like it then go somewhere else. It's no different then any other place. When you go into the job interview what do they say? Your gonna be required to work evenings, weekends and some holidays, and if you don't like it go somewhere else. If you don't like the rules of the company you don't take plaster it all over the news, you find a new comp...
    If a church cannot get involved in politics or interfere with secular laws then by all rights, politics and secular laws cannot get involved with the church and need to remain out of the churches business and views. If I walked into a school for wicca and asked for a job, it would be very wrong of me to ask and expect Sundays off for me to go to a Catholic Mass. What should be done on that is to find a job that lets me have my religious beliefs and to not try to change my employer or his standards. So if someone working in the Catholic hospital is upset because they wont supply birth control, then the person should find another job in another hospital. It is illegal to discriminate based on religion, sex, or color, but they are not saying they will not hire you if you are not Catholic, what they are saying is that if you want to work here you will not get coverage for some things. or here are the rules now abide by them, and if you don't like it then go somewhere else. It's no different then any other place. When you go into the job interview what do they say? Your gonna be required to work evenings, weekends and some holidays, and if you don't like it go somewhere else. If you don't like the rules of the company you don't take plaster it all over the news, you find a new company to work for. The Catholic church has had the same views and rules for over 2,000 years, its wrong to ask them to change or expect them to change just to make you happy.
    The one thing you always here in these arguments is that the church is trying to fores its beliefs onto non-believers, but the church feels like the non-believers are trying to fores its secular ways onto the church. The church has not changed in over 2,000 years but the government changes every four years. I really can't see where the church is in the wrong but the government is right.
    (more)
  • Skeptikat Cheese 2012/07/02 23:01:16
  • Cheese Skeptikat 2012/07/02 23:44:03
    Cheese
    You missed the point. Catholic businesses don't discriminate. At all!! They will hire anybody who wants a job. But just because you get a job there doesn't mean they have to offer anything. My job at full time doesn't offer insurance of any kind. The honest truth is not every business offers the same things, each business is different and will offer different things. The only difference is that the Catholic church gets yelled at for what they don't offer but Famous Footwear doesn't.
  • Cheese Cheese 2012/07/02 23:53:34
    Cheese
    Also, the Catholic church worldwide has the same rules. So the same rules that the Catholic church down the street has is the same rules that the Vatican in Italy has. You can't ask the Catholic church worldwide to change just because the American government wants it to change. Just the same as you can't ask Germany to start offering our insurance policy just because we do. If your getting so mad at someone throwing there standers onto someone else then why are you saying that we (America) need to throw our standers onto the Italian people.
  • Skeptikat Cheese 2012/07/03 00:18:31
  • Skeptikat Cheese 2012/07/03 00:17:51
  • Cheese Skeptikat 2012/07/03 00:43:25
    Cheese
    If you think my argument is that the church is "big" then you didn't read what I wrote.
    If a hospital, no matter who runs it, denies that, everyone would scream. You need blood to live. You don't need birth control to live. It's considered a luxury on most insurance providers.
    Abortions has never been "acceptable and legal" until the last 5 years. Again, Catholic church, 2,000 years. And they are NOT pushing there benefits onto other, what they are saying is that they WILL NOT take part in something that there boss, the Pope in Italy says no to. Just like you answer to your boss, the Catholic church answers to the Pope and the Pope in not an American, so you CANNOT expect a non-American to abide by American laws.
    The Catholic has not now and will NEVER push there views onto anybody, what they do is they stand up for them self, just like your doing now. Only the Catholic church does it without cursing people out.
  • Skeptikat Cheese 2012/07/03 00:59:14 (edited)
  • Cheese Skeptikat 2012/07/03 21:27:03
    Cheese
    I think you need to check your facts, birth control doesn't save lives, it prevents them. Saying that birth control will save a woman's life is like saying to much food could kill you so I won't eat. Yes women still die every year from child birth because more of them are doing c-sections as well as heavier women are more prone to diabetes and other complications, and they may have excess tissue and larger babies that make a vaginal delivery more problematic. In 2004 the rate was 13 deaths per 100,000 live births. More people die each year in car accidents then in child birth. Birth control only prevents the birth from happening just like staying at home prevents you from getting into a car accident.
    Maybe I haven't been going to the right church lately, but I'm very confident that there hasn't been any more witch burnings in the church since the witch burnings in England in 1682. and the Spanish Inquisition has been over since 1834, I still have my collage history book if you would like to read it. Also the church is not a "Foreign corporations doing business in the US" they are a church NOT a business.
    One last thing, from my psychology training, if you feel you have to attack my intelligence and character and cuss me out then you know you have lost.
  • Skeptikat Cheese 2012/07/03 21:48:29
  • AL Cheese 2012/07/05 09:18:32
    AL
    You're 100% correct!
  • AL Cheese 2012/07/05 09:16:28
    AL
    Just think what happens next, if the Catholic Church refuses to buy any insurence that provids Birth control and abortions? Do you really think the American people are ready to see the leaders of any Church go to prison for tax evasion for what they believe is wrong?
  • 4gotten Israelite 2012/07/01 11:44:07
    The Catholic Church
    4gotten Israelite
    The Catholic church will give in.
  • AL 4gotten... 2012/07/05 09:24:12
    AL
    By faith they can't! Yet I expect they will be ready and willing to go to prison for tax evasion for what they believe if they have to!So how do you think the American people are going to feel about that as well?
  • 4gotten... AL 2012/07/05 14:06:47
    4gotten Israelite
    The Catholic Church isn't dedicated in it's faith enough to go to prison for something they don't believe, they have to much sin behind them already. And I don't really think America cares like that.
  • AL 4gotten... 2012/07/05 20:58:06 (edited)
    AL
    LOL! I was raised in the Catholic Church myself! When push comes to shove, I think you'll be SHOCKED by how the Catholic Church Stands by what it believes partner!
  • 4gotten... AL 2012/07/06 01:09:47
    4gotten Israelite
    I respect you for growing up in the Catholic Church, but I personally don't respect the church itself because of the skeleton's it hides in it's closet.
  • AL 4gotten... 2012/07/06 04:34:57
    AL
    I really don't care what you think of the Catholic Church to be honeast with you-Yet they still have a God given right and FREEDOM to NOT fund Birth control or abortions, the Church just doesn't believe in!
  • 4gotten... AL 2012/07/06 15:25:49
    4gotten Israelite
    Well I guess that goes to each is own. I guess it's acceptable for the Catholic Church to rape little boy's but not acceptable to birth control. Sound's just like a Catholic belief.
  • AL 4gotten... 2012/07/07 04:10:06
    AL
    No!It has nothing to do with to each his own! Since our own Constitution gives us our rights UN GOD-NOT man! You know, The very same Constitution that tells us -WE HAVE A GOD given FREEDOM OF RELIGION!
  • JanHopkins 2012/06/30 23:10:09
    The Government
    JanHopkins
    +1
    The catholic church is not well known for giving up.

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