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Nov. 4th 2008: A day that will live in infamy, OR a day of re-birth for America?

Dan™: Real Change, Not False Hope 2009/01/15 18:47:16
A day that will live in infamy!
A day of re-birth for America!
Undecided
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  • Lanikai 2009/01/15 19:28:31
    A day that will live in infamy!
    Lanikai
    +7
    I think this will turn into the biggest mistake in our republics short history. His policies so far are not sound and his social decisions will have far reaching consequences-looks like a lot of reaching into our pockets. I do not like the lifting of the gays in the militarty ban, I do not want more welfare for corporations or banks and I think he is taking us down a rosy soundy but very rough road to a socialist society with a serious cutting down of our individual rights. I am disappointed so far in his choices, as the candidate of change he sure is getting a lot of Clinton hacks and theirs was a very corrupt admin, maybe he will keep his promise and his will be different, so far it looks like he is playing the repayment game-all his radical causes are getting handed everything they want and the people who did not vote for him ie:most workers, chrisitans and conservatives, are getting effed over and left out. We shall see.

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  • Dan™: R... PigsOnSoma 2009/01/15 19:04:11 (edited)
    Dan™: Real Change, Not False Hope
    +9
    Hmmm ... not really a fair statement to say Bush did "all the damage" is it?

    I don't think it was Bush who flew those planes into the WTC, was it? And I don't think Bush is the one who passed the Housing & Community Development Act of 1974, that set us on the path to economic ruin in the housing & banking industries.

    And what about those idiots in Congress --from both parties? Don't they get any of the blame?
  • Kat Dan™: R... 2009/01/15 19:22:11 (edited)
    Kat
    +6
    to say nothing of the fact that we are safe here in the USA and have not had ANY attcaks on US soil since this war began.... Hmmmmm....
  • Eppie Kat 2009/01/16 04:22:31
    Eppie
    +3
    I think about that every day, even though most people I know have become complacent.
  • PigsOnSoma Dan™: R... 2009/01/15 19:22:21
    PigsOnSoma
    +1
    It was Bush that decided to spend the early part of his presidency on vaction ignoring the Osama evidence placed on his desk. It was Bush that is largly the one to blame for the lack of regulation overseeing the markets and the mortgage crisis. And it certainly was Bush that led us into war for his own reasons having nothing to do with the reality of the situation, again ignoring what the intelligence community and the IAEA had to say about it.

    As for Congress - I'm not thrilled about them either - but ultimately top management must take the responsibility.
  • Dan™: R... PigsOnSoma 2009/01/15 19:34:49
    Dan™: Real Change, Not False Hope
    +7
    Come on now, Pigs, you know very well that Clinton ignored all the Osama evidence for years too.

    Bush was not the one who was chiefly responsible for lack of responsible oversight of Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac --you can thank Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Franklin Raines and an entire generation of Congressional idiots for that one.

    Finally, you say Bush ignored what the intelligence community had to say about Iraq ... that is the exact opposite of the truth. In fact, it was the bad information supplied by the intelligence community --and trumped up by the New York Times and the rest of the media-- that he seized upon to justify invading Iraq.
  • PigsOnSoma Dan™: R... 2009/01/15 20:11:02
    PigsOnSoma
    The CIA and the IAEA said there were no weapons of mass destruction. Evidence about the meeting in Prague was debunked well before the war. Scott Ritter championed the cause - and of anybody he had first hand knowledge of what Iraq's capabilities were, being a weapons inspector. The uranium tubes had even been debunked - but that brings me to Valerie Plame - another blunder of his administration. Furthermore the hijackers were almost all Saudis. What we did to Iraq, which was was of the most socially liberal countries in the Middle East by returning them to the dark ages is a war crime.

    Clinton was no favorite of mine - but Osama was the least of his oversights. (I would put Nafta ahead - but under Bush this whole thing fanned out to include China somehow). Bush had 8 months in office before 911 - plenty of time to go over the evidence about the training flights on his desk. And after 911 Bush didn't make Osama his priority, but got sidetracked into Iraq (because Hussein got rid of the dollar as the currency to trade oil for). There is some evidence suggesting Bush wanted to go after Iraq before 911. Clinton didn't have the 911 excuse to get Osama - but Bush certainly should have.

    As for the mortgage crisis - this is one of the most in depth short shows about it. It has to do...



    ''''''
    The CIA and the IAEA said there were no weapons of mass destruction. Evidence about the meeting in Prague was debunked well before the war. Scott Ritter championed the cause - and of anybody he had first hand knowledge of what Iraq's capabilities were, being a weapons inspector. The uranium tubes had even been debunked - but that brings me to Valerie Plame - another blunder of his administration. Furthermore the hijackers were almost all Saudis. What we did to Iraq, which was was of the most socially liberal countries in the Middle East by returning them to the dark ages is a war crime.

    Clinton was no favorite of mine - but Osama was the least of his oversights. (I would put Nafta ahead - but under Bush this whole thing fanned out to include China somehow). Bush had 8 months in office before 911 - plenty of time to go over the evidence about the training flights on his desk. And after 911 Bush didn't make Osama his priority, but got sidetracked into Iraq (because Hussein got rid of the dollar as the currency to trade oil for). There is some evidence suggesting Bush wanted to go after Iraq before 911. Clinton didn't have the 911 excuse to get Osama - but Bush certainly should have.

    As for the mortgage crisis - this is one of the most in depth short shows about it. It has to do with world-wide greed:

    http://www.thislife.org/radio...

    Bush ok'd it in a way by saying people should be put in homes they cannot afford, and yes, Clinton did the same thing (again - not one of my favorite presidents) - though the fact remains it all unfolded under Bush. It's a manegement issue. We can't blame the government for the cost of oil - a bubble created by the future's market after the housing bubble collapsed. SHould we blame the government - or wall street? Why hasn't this happened before - Frank has been there forever - so why now? Did he know what he was doing? Probably not - though many don't. Still - the buck stops at the top.
    (more)
  • Dan™: R... PigsOnSoma 2009/01/15 22:05:28
    Dan™: Real Change, Not False Hope
    +1
    Hindsight really is 20/20 isn't it?

    Too bad our leaders don't have the benefit of hindsight or clairvoyance while they're making their decisions.

    I just think that for those who want to play the blame game, there's plenty of blame to go around; but ultimately it does no good, solves nothing, and distorts reality to blame it all on one man --in fact, it is an obstacle to solving our country's problems.
  • PigsOnSoma Dan™: R... 2009/01/16 19:47:57
    PigsOnSoma
    Perhaps - but when we talk about any given president we also talk about the mood of the country as a whole.

    After the first few presidents have come and gone what Congress does is much less important historically speaking. We talk about FDR or Eisenhower, and what they did - but history doesn't usually factor in passing blame (or praise) to Congress especially among the general public.
  • Lanikai PigsOnSoma 2009/01/15 19:42:11
    Lanikai
    +2
    He did not, and he did not, BUT what about Clinton refusing to take OSAMA on threee seperate occasions..

    The info Bush was given was the same we had had for years-something may happen at sometime, rather hard to prepare for.
  • PigsOnSoma Lanikai 2009/01/15 20:12:30
    PigsOnSoma
    Let's see - Osama causes 911 and the current President doesn't make it his number one mission to find this guy? Hmm...
  • Cloud Dan™: R... 2009/01/15 19:30:53
    Cloud
    It was Bush's people who ignored a memo from the Clinton people telling that Bin Laden was planing an attack using airplanes. And as for Congress, the Republicans have had control for over 8 years!
  • Dan™: R... Cloud 2009/01/15 19:39:08
    Dan™: Real Change, Not False Hope
    +3
    LOL! That's funny Cloud!

    So it was Bush's people who ignored the memo that Clinton's people ignored --so it's Bush's fault no matter what?

    C'mon!
  • Cloud Dan™: R... 2009/01/16 05:00:55
    Cloud
    Here is the thing, 911 happened on Bush's watch, after the memo had been ignored. The bombers in the first WTC attack were tracked down and brought to trial, the ones from 911..........?
  • Trader1... Cloud 2009/01/16 21:18:33
    Trader1 is kerbonkin'
    And it was Clinton's people (remember Gorelick?) who threw up a wall, barring agencies from exchanging information.
  • Cloud Trader1... 2009/01/16 21:24:45
    Cloud
    Rice got the memo and IGNORED it, what part of that don't you understand!
  • Trader1... Cloud 2009/01/16 21:40:26
    Trader1 is kerbonkin'
    A memo of what? Rumors that there might be a potential attack? It's hard to chase down a chimera when each government agency had a piece of the puzzle but were locked in separate rooms, forbidden to share with each other.
  • Cloud Trader1... 2009/01/16 22:29:41
    Cloud
    As I figured, you excuse Bush but blame Clinton! Pathetic
  • Trader1... Cloud 2009/01/16 22:51:59
    Trader1 is kerbonkin'
    +1
    And as I already knew, you excuse Clinton and blame Bush for his failures. Not pathetic, just sad.
  • Cloud Trader1... 2009/01/17 06:10:02
    Cloud
    Where did I excuse Clinton? Just because I pointed out that Bush ignored a memo from the Clinton people? I don't excuse anyone, but you most obviously have and will!
  • Lanikai Dan™: R... 2009/01/15 19:41:02
    Lanikai
    +3
    The libertards will never acknowledge their own parties actual responsibility for this disaster. They refuse to understand that CONGRESS spends.
  • Eppie Dan™: R... 2009/01/16 04:21:46
    Eppie
    +1
    Again-they blame Bush for it all- even though Congress is run by clowns like Pelosi, Reid, Frank and Dodd-all Democrats.
  • Cloud Eppie 2009/01/16 05:03:06
    Cloud
    What is funny is that you try to blame people who just recently got the majority, a very slight majority, yet they are of course to blame for that which happened BEFORE they had the majority! Pathetic, very pathetic!
  • America... PigsOnSoma 2009/01/15 19:04:56
    American Rhetoric Review
    +3
    Amen!!!
  • Dan™: R... PigsOnSoma 2009/01/16 02:26:58
    Dan™: Real Change, Not False Hope
    +1
    Sure it can get worse ... it can always get worse. I'm sure you're familiar with Murphy's Law?

    The world is going crazy right now, politically and economically. And it seems to get worse every day. In fact, I predict it will get much worse before it gets any better.

    We haven't hit bottom yet, baby! Not by a long shot!

    :(
  • PigsOnSoma Dan™: R... 2009/01/16 19:51:16
    PigsOnSoma
    +1
    With the economy I'm afraid you're right. But I do hope we start to prioritze what nation is the most important to us - and put our efforts, from the top down, on healing what has gone wrong. Have you read this?

    http://thinkprogress.org/2009...
  • Dan™: R... PigsOnSoma 2009/01/17 01:20:11
    Dan™: Real Change, Not False Hope
    +1
    I will, thanks for the link.
  • No nonsense NanC...don't BS... 2009/01/15 18:54:33 (edited)
    Undecided
    No nonsense NanC...don't BS me!
    +2
    One will have to wait and see what effect this has on America........its economy and its image here and abroad. It is way too early to say this is the greatest thing since white bread, and projecting all these prophecies upon this administration. He hasn't any record of accomplishments to base anything upon, other than he is a successful Chicago style politician and has built his success upon a series of lies/half truths. Perhaps he really will turn out to be a "great" president, but there is nothing realist to base that assumption upon presently.
  • Mrs. Daydreamer :) 2009/01/15 18:54:27
    A day that will live in infamy!
    Mrs. Daydreamer :)
    +4
    hope i'm wrong that things will turn out ok, but i just don't see it in the cards. and the pic should be a line through the american flag cause that's what he wants to do is cross out anything that we stand for!
  • Dan™: R... Mrs. Da... 2009/01/15 19:06:09
    Dan™: Real Change, Not False Hope
    +2
    Did you look at the main poll pic?
  • Mrs. Da... Dan™: R... 2009/01/15 19:11:28
    Mrs. Daydreamer :)
    +2
    i see it now. looks right to me. but like i said, hopefully i'm wrong.
  • Dan™: R... Mrs. Da... 2009/01/15 19:35:28
    Dan™: Real Change, Not False Hope
    +3
    That's how I feel.
  • Lee The... Dan™: R... 2009/01/15 21:03:48
  • Cloud Mrs. Da... 2009/01/15 19:32:56
    Cloud
    Making up fact is not like real facts, try educating yourself!
  • Dan™: R... Cloud 2009/01/15 19:40:21
    Dan™: Real Change, Not False Hope
    +3
    Huh? Just because someone has a different opinion than you doesn't automatically mean they're uneducated.
  • Bill - Buffalo Soldier 2009/01/15 18:52:14
    Undecided
    Bill - Buffalo Soldier
    +4
    Neither, just election day; we will have another one in four years and another one four years after that and so on.

    As a black man in America, I will still be waiting for a black man to be elected.
  • Lanikai Bill - ... 2009/01/15 19:45:27
    Lanikai
    Did you know that the very first president of America was a black man (100%) of Moorish descent who came over with his family to help settle this country? Look up

    www.johnhansonpresident.com
  • Dan™: R... Lanikai 2009/01/15 22:32:46
    Dan™: Real Change, Not False Hope
    Not quite. Hanson was President of Congress under the Articles of Confederation --which technically would have made him the 3rd man to act as President of Congress.

    And he was of English ancestry, not African. His parents were indentured servants. Here's a picture of him:




    act president congress english ancestry african parents indentured servants picture
  • Holliegirl11 2009/01/15 18:50:14
    Undecided
    Holliegirl11
    +2
    Time will tell......
  • Dan™: Real Change, Not Fals... 2009/01/15 18:50:00
    Undecided
    Dan™: Real Change, Not False Hope
    +2
    I can't say for sure yet, although I'm leaning towards the former. We'll know the answer soon enough. Here's hoping it's the latter ...
  • squid 2009/01/15 18:48:55
    Undecided
    squid
    +2
    Does it have to be one or the other?

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