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No where in the bible does it say being homosexual is a sin, and the only places it refers to it is in the old testament in Leviticus, Romans, and Corinthians.

Connor Pope 2009/08/14 22:50:13
I beg everyone read this before they continue as well, totally debunks alot of the Romans Corinthians
http://www.worldpolicy.org/projects/globalrights/sexorient/bi...

Firstly may say it is detestable to be homosexual, but no where does it directly say "Being Homosexual is a Sin"

Second of all, any reference to being homosexual as being wrong is in the old testament, in the new testament homosexual doesn't mean being "Gay". Refer to the link above.

Thirdly, "Love Thy Neighbor", it means love everyone, including those who are gay and those who are black, and white, and racist, and hateful (Yes, including Conservatives :P)

Fourthly, the bible specifically says "Matthew 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged."" , much like the golden rule, if you say being a homosexual is a sin then you to will be judged by others.

Fifthly, if you truly believe in those laws from those books including Leviticus, then surely you HAVE to believe in these, otherwise you will be Proof-testing the bible for your own opinions, which is wrong.

These are the laws from Leviticus, you either believe in them ALL or you don't.

Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)
Don't have a variety of crops on the same field. (Leviticus 19:19)
Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19)
Don't cut your hair nor shave. (Leviticus 19:27)
Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed. (Leviticus 20:9) Have you ever done that?
If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die. (Leviticus 20:10). I wonder if Dr. Laura would like that one to be enforced?
If a man sleeps with his father's wife... both him and his father's wife is to be put to death. (Leviticus 20:11)
If a man sleeps with his wife and her mother they are all to be burnt to death. (Leviticus 20:14)
If a man or woman has sex with an animal, both human and animal must be killed. (Leviticus 20:15-16). I guess you should kill the animal since they were willing participants. Are they crazy?
If a man has sex with a woman on her period, they are both to be "cut off from their people" (Leviticus 20:18)
Psychics, wizards, and so on are to be stoned to death. (Leviticus 20:27)
If a priest's daughter is a whore, she is to be burnt at the stake. (Leviticus 21:9)
People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)
Anyone who curses or blasphemes God, should be stoned to death by the community. (Leviticus 24:14-16)
Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)

Sixthly, it is NATURAL TO BE HOMOSEXUAL. The brain patters of a homosexual are close to the same of that of a heterosexual of the opposite sex. The hormones are much different in a homosexual's brain then that of a heterosexual of the same gender.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1815538,00.html
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/06/080616-gay-br...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7791888/
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,367848,00.html


Seventhly, it is so natural that even ANIMALS show homosexual tendencies.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_g...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homos...
http://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/5550488/Homos...

A Summary

When one compares the original Hebrew and Greek writings with various English translations of the Bible, discrepancies emerge. There are many passages in English Bibles which clearly condemn same-sex activities. But when the original Hebrew or Greek text is studied, the passages are either ambiguous or are unrelated to consentual homosexuality within a committed relationship. Two words which are often mistranslated in many places in the Hebrew Scriptures are:

* qadesh means a male temple prostitute who engaged in ritual sex; it is often mistranslated as “sodomite” or “homosexual.”
* to’ebah means a condemned foreign Pagan religious cult practice, but often translated as “abomination.”

We have concluded the following:

* The Bible has a lot to say about temple prostitution, including homosexual ritual prostitution. This was a common practice within the Canaanite fertility religion; some believe that the practice was also taken up by some ancient Israelites.
* God’s destruction of town of Sodom had nothing to do with homosexuality
* The Bible says little about homosexual feelings.
* It says nothing about sexual orientation; the concept of orientation dates only from the late 19th century.
* A number of homosexual relationships are described positively or neutrally in the Bible
* Of the many hundreds of Jesus’ instructions and prohibitions, few have a sexual component and none condemn homosexuality.
* Paul may have condemned same-sex sexual activities by homosexuals, but the passages are unclear; there are many possible interpretations.
* Bible translators must be aware of the errors that have been made in previous versions of the Bible; they are widely discussed in theological literature. But it would probably not be economically possible at this time to produce a translation of the Bible that was accurate. People are so used to expecting homophobic references in a half-dozen locations in scrip

A Caution

The words “homosexual” and “homosexuality” do not appear in the Bible—at least they are absent from the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts. The authors of the Bible did not understand sexual orientation; this concept was only developed in the late 19th century. The writers had little or no comprehension of same-sex committed relationships. Their languages had no words for these concepts. Rather, they assumed that everyone was heterosexual, but that some heterosexuals engaged in sex with persons of the same gender. Thus, when you see one of these terms in an English translation of the Bible, it is important to dig deeper and find what the original Hebrew or Greek text really means.
Bible References

In Biblical times, same-gender sexual interactions could take many forms. Some were:

1. kings of conquered tribes were sometimes raped by the invading army as the ultimate symbol of defeat and humiliation. Homosexual rape was also a way of humiliating visitors and strangers. These were acts of power and domination and had nothing in common with consentual sex by gays and lesbians.
2. some non-Jewish tribes in the area had male prostitutes in their temples who ritually engaged in same-sex activities; this horrified the ancient Israelites. Temple prostitution is no longer found in most areas of the world.
3. it was common within the Roman Empire for male adults to keep boy prostitutes for the purpose of sexual activity. The boys were often slaves. In modern times, this is considered child abuse, a criminal offense.
4. it is reasonable to assume that many loving gay and lesbian relationships existed in Biblical times, but these would normally have been conducted in secret.

Only the last type would have any similarity to today’s gay and lesbian consentual, committed, loving relationships.
People’s Beliefs Regarding the Bible

People differ greatly in their view of the Bible:

* Generally speaking, Fundamentalists and other Evangelical Christians believe that:
o the Bible, as originally written, is inerrent (infallible) and that God prevented the authors from making even a single error
o every verse is useful in their understanding of God’s intentions
o one should initially attempt to interpret each passage according to its literal meaning
Many conservative Christians believe that certain translations are essentially free of error; e.g. the King James Version and the New International Version. Thus, when they read some of the passages that clearly and unmistakably condemn homosexuality, they are inclined to trust the translators and conclude that God hates homosexuality. Unfortunately, many groups of translators have been heavily biased against certain people, including Witches, gays and lesbians; many have tended to warp their translations accordingly.
* More liberal Christians tend to look upon the Bible as containing many translation errors, whose verses should not necessarily all be taken at their face value. Sections which accept and regulate slavery, limit the rights of women and condemn homosexuality are some examples.

Each Bible translation reflects the world view, beliefs and mind sets of its translators. Their personal biases distort their work. There is an additional complexity facing translators: today’s society is very different from that of Biblical times. It is sometimes difficult to find a current English word that closely matches a Hebrew or Greek term.

Same-Sex Relationships in the Bible

The Bible describes three emotionally close relationships between two people of the same gender. They appear to have progressed well beyond a casual friendship:

* Ruth and Naomi
* David and Jonathan
* Daniel and Ashpenaz

Daniel’s relationship appears to have been a committed homosexual partnership; the others may or may not have been sexually active.
Conclusions

* There may be as many as three references in the Bible to committed homosexual relationships, none of which was condemned.
* Homosexual activity in the temple by male prostitutes is clearly prohibited by the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament).
* Prostitution, both heterosexual and homosexual is generally condemned.
* Sexual abuse of boys by adult males is condemned
* St. Paul considered at least some male and female homosexual acts to be forbidden, but it is unclear precisely which acts are included. He may have been referring to:
o temple prostitution,
o people who are not innately gay, lesbian or bisexual, but who engaged in homosexual acts,
o to child sexual abuse, or
o group sexual orgies.

Paul was certainly aware of sexual orgies in Pagan temples, including both heterosexual and homosexual encounters. He would have been aware of the practice of male adults keeping a boy for sexual purposes. These may have been the only forms of same gender sex that he knew of. He did not appear to make any references in his writings to consentual, committed homosexual relationships. He probably did not know of any.

One should note that Paul also condemned women preaching (1 Cor 14:34) or wearing gold or pearls (1 Tim 2:11). He also accepted and did not condemn the institution of slavery. Many Christians feel that his writings reflect his own prejudices are not a particularly useful guide for ethics and morals in the 20th Century.
* Jesus made many hundreds of statements regarding belief and behavior. However He never mentioned homosexuality.
* It is the subject of endless debate whether St. Paul’s prohibition of at least some homosexual acts was:
o for the people in the vicinity of the Mediterranean during the 1st Century CE, or
o for all people, forever.

One can argue that the ancient Israelites were surrounded by warlike tribes. Their fertility was very important if the group was to survive. The early Christian church was persecuted by the Roman government and by the Jewish religious leaders. Homosexuals tend to have few children; thus their presence would be met with opposition. At the end of the 20th Century, conditions are the exact opposite; we are threatened by our excessive fertility. Perhaps Paul’s criticism of homosexuality is no longer valid, like his various prohibitions against women’s behavior.
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Top Opinion

  • Disko Pickle 2009/08/15 01:04:29
    Disko Pickle
    +20
    Sorry, but the Bible is 100% clear that homosexuality is a sin for which the punishment is death. There is no wiggle room on this one. If you want to have an open mind about homosexuality, I'm afraid you're going to have to drop your Christian faith. You can't have it both ways.

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  • Connor ... The Myth 2009/08/18 01:12:16
    Connor Pope
    www.dontreadthelinkbecauseimi...
  • Scars Remain (aka Vicki) 2009/08/15 03:57:27
    Scars Remain (aka Vicki)
    http://www.sharpbrains.com/bl...
    http://psychcentral.com/blog/...
    The above articles reference how we can change our brains. This is why I have seen people who were in various gay or straight relationships change to the opposite. I have seen abused women move into lesbian relationships. I have seen women who married, then divorced to go into lesbian relationships, then turn around and marry a man again.

    Romans and Corinthians are N.T. books, not O.T.
    Also you see no where in scriptures, in which Jesus addresses that you can take a partner. He states that a man is to cleave unto his wife. If it is a same sex relationship, how do you determine wife from husband?
    Even when the woman at the well was found to have more than one husband, he told her this fact about herself and then told her to go and sin no more. Would you say this is then judging? It appears Jesus made judgments, so then you must read within context of what He was truly talking about, when it came to judging.

    Matthew 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
    Mark 10:7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;

    Also we were created to be higher life forms than animals, there is...
    http://www.sharpbrains.com/bl...
    http://psychcentral.com/blog/...
    The above articles reference how we can change our brains. This is why I have seen people who were in various gay or straight relationships change to the opposite. I have seen abused women move into lesbian relationships. I have seen women who married, then divorced to go into lesbian relationships, then turn around and marry a man again.

    Romans and Corinthians are N.T. books, not O.T.
    Also you see no where in scriptures, in which Jesus addresses that you can take a partner. He states that a man is to cleave unto his wife. If it is a same sex relationship, how do you determine wife from husband?
    Even when the woman at the well was found to have more than one husband, he told her this fact about herself and then told her to go and sin no more. Would you say this is then judging? It appears Jesus made judgments, so then you must read within context of what He was truly talking about, when it came to judging.

    Matthew 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
    Mark 10:7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;

    Also we were created to be higher life forms than animals, there is no comparison. I know for a fact, dogs will show domination by appearing they are homosexual.
    (more)
  • Connor ... Scars R... 2009/08/15 04:00:54
    Connor Pope
    You can't change brains Scars, it's not physically possible. Most people who do what you described are extremely insecure about it.

    Those things you quoted seriously have nothing to do with homosexuality... they were used because being straight is the higher percentage then homosexuality. There was no need to post those.

    We are not higher life forms than "animals", we are animals. We have the same biological impulses as animals and you can't deny it.
  • Scars R... Connor ... 2009/08/15 04:29:24
    Scars Remain (aka Vicki)
    +2
    Why do you use a Bible as a source if you do not believe what is in it?

    It is evident in the Bible that God created us as higher life forms rather than the animals. It is evident that your only desire is to use the Bible in order to try and justify what you want to believe by only taking pieces out of it, throwing away the rest. Jim Jones did so; had a whole group of people follow him to death.

    You either believe the Bible or you don't. God tells me that I was created in His image. The animals were not, His people will judge angels...animals will not.
    1 Corinthians 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

    There is science that states just from habits, we can rewire and change our brains. It is physically possible, the brain was created to be the greatest super computer, nothing compares. You put in input and you get output. That is how some who have had strokes, have had brain damage, etc., can re-teach and allow the brain to rewire itself. Our thoughts also have a way of moving us forward in a path of destruction or righteousness.

    I know people who have changed back and forth between being straight and gay just by their cirmcumstances, wants, curiousity, habits and desires.

    Jeremiah 17:9
    "The human heart is most d...






    Why do you use a Bible as a source if you do not believe what is in it?

    It is evident in the Bible that God created us as higher life forms rather than the animals. It is evident that your only desire is to use the Bible in order to try and justify what you want to believe by only taking pieces out of it, throwing away the rest. Jim Jones did so; had a whole group of people follow him to death.

    You either believe the Bible or you don't. God tells me that I was created in His image. The animals were not, His people will judge angels...animals will not.
    1 Corinthians 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

    There is science that states just from habits, we can rewire and change our brains. It is physically possible, the brain was created to be the greatest super computer, nothing compares. You put in input and you get output. That is how some who have had strokes, have had brain damage, etc., can re-teach and allow the brain to rewire itself. Our thoughts also have a way of moving us forward in a path of destruction or righteousness.

    I know people who have changed back and forth between being straight and gay just by their cirmcumstances, wants, curiousity, habits and desires.

    Jeremiah 17:9
    "The human heart is most deceitful and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is?

    Matthew 15:19
    For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.

    Proverb 23:7
    FOR AS HE THINKETH IN HIS HEART, SO IS HE:
    Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart [is] not with thee.
    (more)
  • Connor ... Scars R... 2009/08/15 13:35:37
    Connor Pope
    God never created us Scars directly, I think yes, he did start a reaction to make life but he never created us from sand.

    We are smarter life forms but we are NEVER higher then animals. If you put 100 humans in the forest, they will act just like animals, just in our society and culture we are given the choice to act unlike animals.

    No, you either believe the parts of the bible you want like so many "Christians" do or you uphold the values and morals and believe the bible for different reasons. Not all of the bible is meant to be taken literally, such as the first book, the last book, and many books are just for prophecy.

    Exactly, STROKES and BRAIN DAMAGE. That's not a good thing Scars, you can't just change your brain or rewire it. It will have undesirable affects in the long run and It would be like someone telling you to rewire your brain so you can become gay.
  • Scars R... Connor ... 2009/08/15 15:21:12
    Scars Remain (aka Vicki)
    +1
    I guess you didn't read the study of cab drivers and how a habit changed their brain.
    We were given dominion over animals, God breathed the breath of life into us, making us into His image.
    I do believe God created us from dust.

    (excerpt taken from: http://www.biblicist.org/syst...
    Although atheistic evolutionists disbelieve the teaching of the Bible, theistic evolutionists are in danger of impugning the character of God when they endeavor to explain the story of creation symbolically. The Scriptures taken literally give a reasonable explanation for the origin of man. Even if evolution could prove its doctrine of the survival of the fittest, it cannot account for the arrival of the first. In the Bible we are told that God "created" man (Genesis 1:27; 5:1; Deuteronomy 4:32; Psalm 104:30; Isaiah 45:12; 1 Corinthians 11:9) and that he "made" and "fashioned" or "formed" him out of the dust of the ground (Genesis 1:26; 2:22; 6:6f; Psalm 100:3; 103:14; 1 Timothy 2:13). As to his body, man was made of the dust of the ground; as to his immaterial nature, he was made of the inbreathing of God. Genesis 2:7; Job 33:4; and Ecclesiastes 12:7 include both ideas in one statement.

    ****** This conception of the origin of man taken literally from Scripture gives man a dignity of being an...
    I guess you didn't read the study of cab drivers and how a habit changed their brain.
    We were given dominion over animals, God breathed the breath of life into us, making us into His image.
    I do believe God created us from dust.

    (excerpt taken from: http://www.biblicist.org/syst...
    Although atheistic evolutionists disbelieve the teaching of the Bible, theistic evolutionists are in danger of impugning the character of God when they endeavor to explain the story of creation symbolically. The Scriptures taken literally give a reasonable explanation for the origin of man. Even if evolution could prove its doctrine of the survival of the fittest, it cannot account for the arrival of the first. In the Bible we are told that God "created" man (Genesis 1:27; 5:1; Deuteronomy 4:32; Psalm 104:30; Isaiah 45:12; 1 Corinthians 11:9) and that he "made" and "fashioned" or "formed" him out of the dust of the ground (Genesis 1:26; 2:22; 6:6f; Psalm 100:3; 103:14; 1 Timothy 2:13). As to his body, man was made of the dust of the ground; as to his immaterial nature, he was made of the inbreathing of God. Genesis 2:7; Job 33:4; and Ecclesiastes 12:7 include both ideas in one statement.

    ****** This conception of the origin of man taken literally from Scripture gives man a dignity of being and a position of responsibility that no other theory does, and lays the foundations for a sane system of ethics and redemption.******
    (more)
  • Connor ... Scars R... 2009/08/15 17:03:58
    Connor Pope
    Cab Drivers =/= Gay people. Thats a bad example, we were never given dominion over animals, during evolution we just evolved quicker and faster, that is all.

    God created us from dust? Did you take biology in high school or are you trying to fool me now scars?

    How can you believe god "Created" man? We evolved.

    What I believe in is that god created LIFE, and from that life we were evolved from it. Science cannot explain how life began, the only explanation is god did it but science CAN explain how humans came to be alive.

    Creationism is a lie, evolution is the only logical and exceptable answer. Believing otherwise is ignoring the facts.
  • Scars R... Connor ... 2009/08/15 21:22:07
    Scars Remain (aka Vicki)
    +1
    I take it you are an Agnostic. We will not find that we agree since I am no longer an Atheist/Agnostic. Jesus has transformed my life and I no longer hold that world view. I believe in the supernatural and miracles. True science can work with a Christian belief system as long as God is not put in a box, or held to human limitations.
  • Connor ... Scars R... 2009/08/15 22:07:35
    Connor Pope
    +1
    I am christian, a logical christian, every seen one of those? They believe in a god of love, not a god of hatred.

    True science? Have you seen Carbon Dating? Fossils? Have you studied the Human Genome?

    It isn't a theory we evolved it is a known fact. You can't deny it scars, there is no way we were "Created" by dust. It is impossible.

    Sometimes believing in the supernatural can be one of the most ignorant things you can do.
  • Scars R... Connor ... 2009/08/16 17:19:58
    Scars Remain (aka Vicki)
    +1
    Matthew 19:26
    But Jesus looked at [them] and said to them, "With men this is impossible, but with God ALL things are possible."

    Scientists don't even say it is "known fact" it is a theory. You also have scientists who explain life with Creationism.
    As a logical Christian, your logic is of the flesh not of the spirit. You limit God and say, it is impossible, but He states nothing is impossible for Him. It sounds like syncretism to me... Jesus plus some other belief.
    How can you justify your knowledge with God's Word with God saying nothing is impossible for Him? You are saying the idea of us being created out of dust is impossible for God. You limit him.
    I have witnessed the supernatural and know many who have as well. Miracles of God, in today's world. In fact, today at church, a man who was told that is ankle was so broken that it could not be fixed and would have to be amputated is walking without even a limp. How does that stack up to your logic.
    My pastor and his wife who had 7 miscarriages and had tried everything known to science to have a baby and couldn't...she is due in 3 weeks.
    A man who had a staph infection, the doctors told the family to start funeral plans. At John Hopkins, they called him the miracle man. He was told this a number of years ago and he is ...












    Matthew 19:26
    But Jesus looked at [them] and said to them, "With men this is impossible, but with God ALL things are possible."

    Scientists don't even say it is "known fact" it is a theory. You also have scientists who explain life with Creationism.
    As a logical Christian, your logic is of the flesh not of the spirit. You limit God and say, it is impossible, but He states nothing is impossible for Him. It sounds like syncretism to me... Jesus plus some other belief.
    How can you justify your knowledge with God's Word with God saying nothing is impossible for Him? You are saying the idea of us being created out of dust is impossible for God. You limit him.
    I have witnessed the supernatural and know many who have as well. Miracles of God, in today's world. In fact, today at church, a man who was told that is ankle was so broken that it could not be fixed and would have to be amputated is walking without even a limp. How does that stack up to your logic.
    My pastor and his wife who had 7 miscarriages and had tried everything known to science to have a baby and couldn't...she is due in 3 weeks.
    A man who had a staph infection, the doctors told the family to start funeral plans. At John Hopkins, they called him the miracle man. He was told this a number of years ago and he is alive today.

    Theory
    1 : the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another
    2 : abstract thought : speculation
    3 : the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art
    4 a : a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action b : an ideal or hypothetical set of facts, principles, or circumstances —often used in the phrase in theory
    5 : a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena
    6 a : a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation b : an unproved assumption : conjecture c : a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject



    I Cor. 1:27
    But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;
    (more)
  • Connor ... Scars R... 2009/08/16 20:43:03
    Connor Pope
    Did I say it was impossible for GOD to do those things? No, I'm saying it is technically impossible for it to happen.

    Almost everything you posted there as a comparison can easily be scientifically explained, just because something is HIGHLY unlikely doesn't mean it's "Gods Doing".

    God gave us free will, he doesn't "Save" anyone, he lets use choose to save ourselves.

    The fact that you don't believe in evolution is bull. We have CARBON DATING, we have FOSSILS, we have LOGIC. Christianity only has "MAGIC"
  • Scars R... Connor ... 2009/08/17 00:25:54
    Scars Remain (aka Vicki)
    +1
    How do you as a Christian, diss your own belief and the Bible? I have serious doubts if you even read, study and understand the Bible.

    I am saying when God is involved, it is not technically impossible for it to happen. God speaks to us even today. I knew that my grandson was born with a problem even before I was told by my son. Call it magic, I call it relationship with the God of this universe.
    We were under the law of sin and death and God brought us into the law of life. Just as the law of gravity is superceded by the law of lift and thrust.
    He does save us and only He can save us. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission for our sins. all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life throught Jesus Christ our Lord.
    How can you even know IF carbon dating is even accurate or flawed.
    I have a whole history of witnesses to follow.

  • Connor ... Scars R... 2009/08/17 00:39:58
    Connor Pope
    +1
    I do not diss the bible, I simply disagree with the way you have interpreted it. I have read and studied the bible, as you can obviously see from most of my posts.

    I never said that anything is impossible when god is involved, I'm just saying that creationism is impossible to have happened due to the amount of evidence against it.

    Carbon Dating is extremely easy to understand, I suggest you take a biology class if you don't understand why you creationism is extemely wrong.
  • Scars R... Connor ... 2009/08/17 03:31:24
    Scars Remain (aka Vicki)
    +1
    So those Scientists who have taken biology and find Creationism extremely right, are what? There are some extremely talented and intelligent scientists who believe in Creationism.
    It sounds like educated guesses to me, hypothesis.
    K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Sweetie...God said He created it, I believe it, so why do I need to waste my time trying to understand or interpret what He said. There are bigger fish to fry in this world, this is not one of them.
    Helping the poor, reaching the lost, serving others seems like a better use of time than trying to understand a universe, we will never understand due to our limited ability to have the mind of God. His ways are above ours.
    As you can see, I simply agree to disagree with you also. I study the Bible, going deeper into the language usage. I also explore the archeology of it, along with the culture. I research and try to learn Christian apologetics, so I do not agree where you are coming from or how there seems to be syncretism in your responses.
  • Connor ... Scars R... 2009/08/17 03:54:02
    Connor Pope
    +1
    They aren't, thats what, they don't exist.

    God never said he created the earth in 7 days, the person who wrote that part of the bible dide.

    Carbon Dating disproves this theory, Fossils disprove this theory, evolution disproves this theory.

    Creationism is only a myth Scars, it was never meant to be taken seriously.
  • Scars R... Connor ... 2009/08/17 11:44:38
    Scars Remain (aka Vicki)
    +1
    http://www.answersingenesis.o...

    Excerpt from above site and the thought I have been trying to convey to you.

    But historical events cannot be checked scientifically in the present. This is because we do not have access to the past; it is gone. All that we have is the circumstantial evidence (relics) of past events. Although we can make educated guesses about the past and can make inferences from things like fossils and rocks, we cannot directly test our conclusions because we cannot repeat the past. Ultimately, biblical creationists accept the recorded history of the Bible as their starting point. Evolutionists reject recorded history, and have effectively made up their own pseudo-history, which they use as a starting point for interpreting evidence

    Real Scientists who were and are Creationists.

    Isaac Newton
    Carl Linnaeus
    Nicolaus Steno
    Andrew Ure
    John Murray
    James Clerk Maxwell
    Russ Humphreys, a Ph.D. physicist
    John Baumgardner, a Ph.D. geophysicist and biblical creationist
    Dr. Raymond Damadian.
    Georgia Purdom, Ph.D. in molecular genetics

    This is just a few names. So how do they not exist? Be my guest and research them. Many have great feats to their credit.
  • Connor ... Scars R... 2009/08/17 12:17:06
    Connor Pope
    +1
    First of all, that link is bull because it says that the scientists who don't use Darwin as a guide at creationist's which is not true at all.

    Second of all, we don't need just Fossils to help us, even though it is quite obvious through logic that fossils come billions of years ago. We have carbon dating, heres a link to help you learn what it is since you don't seem to know it yourself.

    http://hyperphysics.phy-astr....

    Secondly, you have no proof that those scientists "Believe" in creationism. Until you can prove to me that they do in fact believe in creationism OVER evolution then I will believe you that some scientists do believe in creationism.
  • Scars R... Connor ... 2009/08/17 15:07:46
    Scars Remain (aka Vicki)
    +1
    Wow, you call my link bull? The link is written by a Scientist who is a Creationist. He has a PHD from a secular university AND had done extensive research in solar astrophysics. Didn't you read that part or did you just skim over it and decide it has got to be bull because it does not line up with your viewpoint.

    http://creationwiki.org/Isaac...
    http://creationsafaris.com/wg...
  • Connor ... Scars R... 2009/08/17 15:10:17
    Connor Pope
    Wow, "Creationwiki", what a Biased soure scars

    Either way, Creationism is absolute bull shit, and I can't believe someone as smart as you would believe in it
  • Scars R... Connor ... 2009/08/17 15:14:44 (edited)
    Scars Remain (aka Vicki)
    +1
    and yours is not biased???

    There are a lot of very intelligent people who believe in Creationism... just as there are a lot of intelligent people who believe in the theory of Evolution.

    Either way, we are in a stale mate.

    biased intelligent people creationism intelligent people theory evolution stale mate

    Anyways, have to run out of here...I am taking my son fishing in the Bay on a boat. Thank you for a conversation that is absent of name calling. I respect that.
  • Connor ... Scars R... 2009/08/17 17:54:23
    Connor Pope
    +2
    Mine doesn't come from people who believe in creationism it comes from scientists who hhave done their research

    Just because intelligent people believe in creationism doesn't mean its true.

    Thank you scars and I agree, we are at a stale mate. I respect that you didn't name call either, nice arguing with you! :)
  • Live Fr... Connor ... 2009/09/14 09:21:45
    Live Free Or Die
    +1
    Connor, everything was created from dust. That is what evolution is. Before there were living things, there was nothing.
  • Connor ... Scars R... 2009/08/16 02:37:41
  • Angel 2009/08/15 03:35:54 (edited)
    Angel
    +1
    it does call it an vile act... so how could that be good ,if God says its vile...



    Romans 1:26-27: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence [sic] of their error which was meet.
  • Connor ... Angel 2009/08/15 03:39:59
    Connor Pope
    Vile Act is a word, sin is a whole other word. Sin isn't used, therefore it is not a sin. Also I suggest you read the rest of Romans because that isn't the whole story.
  • Angel Connor ... 2009/08/15 04:12:19
    Angel
    I know it didn't say sin, I said it can't be good if God calls it vile..
  • Connor ... Angel 2009/08/15 13:36:20
    Connor Pope
    But god never called it Vile. The Corinthians did, the bible is mysterious angel, but a common myth is that everything in the bible is what god said. But that is wrong, actually none of the bible is what god said, it is pure speculation.
  • Scars R... Connor ... 2009/08/16 17:26:23
    Scars Remain (aka Vicki)
    II Timothy 3:16-17
    All Scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work
  • Connor ... Scars R... 2009/08/16 20:44:33
    Connor Pope
    Inspiration doesn't mean it's exactly what god said. Timothy and others are normal people like you and me and could have easily done something wrong.

    Either way you have to read the facts scars, no where in the bible is homosexuality a sin, no where is "Homosexuality" even talked about in todays time.

    Homosexuality when written in the bible actually means "Ritualistic Rape". That doesn't apply today.

    http://www.worldpolicy.org/pr...
  • Scars R... Connor ... 2009/08/17 00:28:37
    Scars Remain (aka Vicki)
    God's judgement and Sodom and Gommorrah.
    Romans addresses is clearly. Sins are also not praying, unbelief, lust, drunkeness, adultery, etc.
    We all have sinned and are in need of a Saviour and Jesus to be LORD of our lives.
  • Connor ... Scars R... 2009/08/17 02:36:31
    Connor Pope
    You can quote the bible all you want scars

    Homosexuality is not a sin no matter which way you put it.
  • Scars R... Connor ... 2009/08/17 03:41:37
    Scars Remain (aka Vicki)
    According to who? You, a self appointed authority on the Bible? I am sorry but God's Word does not cast it into a positive light, so as a Christian...I would not be entertaining that destructive road.
    There is a way that seems right to man, but the end of it is destruction.
    I have been on those roads of destruction, and there is nothing one could say, to make me even desire those roads to "death".
    I care far too much for my intimate relationship with God.
    It is okay to agree to disagree with you. That is something between you and God. When you stand before Him, only you can give an answer for yourself. It is not my responsibility, I have already voiced that I believe you have erred, which is where my responsibility stops.
  • Connor ... Scars R... 2009/08/17 03:55:05
    Connor Pope
    Like I said, first of all homosexuality doesn't mean what you think it does in the bible, no where in the bible does it say it is a sin. They are talking about pederasty and ritualistic rape, I suggest you read the link I provided instead of bullshitting yourself.

    Yet again, homosexuality is not a sin, no matter which way you put it.
  • Scars R... Connor ... 2009/08/17 12:03:14
    Scars Remain (aka Vicki)
    I don't need to believe bull, I have the indwelling of God's Spirit to tell me what is wrong and what is right.
    You haven't been able to tell me why homosexuals change back and forth between being gay and being straight.

    These people are great examples:

    http://www.anotherway.com/pag...
    http://www.prweb.com/releases...
    http://www.amazon.com/Heavens... (Leanne Payne)

    Lisa Miller - Virginia custody battle for minor child with her former lesbian lover. Lisa Miller is now a Christian and has left that lifestyle.
    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?...

    My daughter's friend, who married, then divorced, then proceeded for a few years in a Lesbian relationship, then married a man again.

    As one stated, it is through the redeeming power of Jesus Christ that one can break free of the homosexual lifestyle. Just like alcoholics, sex addicts, drug abusers, murderers, etc.
  • Connor ... Scars R... 2009/08/17 12:18:37 (edited)
    Connor Pope
    Those stories don't prove anything, they are normal people, heterosexuals go through that shit all the time Scars.

    None of that changes the FACTS Scars. If you truly have the indwelling to God's Spirit then you will know that homosexuality is not a sin.

    Here let me lay out the facts for you

    - Homosexuality never is said to be a sin in the bible
    - Homosexuality actually means ritualistic rape
    - qadesh means a male temple prostitute who engaged in ritual sex; it is often mistranslated as “sodomite” or “homosexual.”
    - to’ebah means a condemned foreign Pagan religious cult practice, but often translated as “abomination.”

    "The words “homosexual” and “homosexuality” do not appear in the Bible—at least they are absent from the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts. The authors of the Bible did not understand sexual orientation; this concept was only developed in the late 19th century. The writers had little or no comprehension of same-sex committed relationships. Their languages had no words for these concepts. Rather, they assumed that everyone was heterosexual, but that some heterosexuals engaged in sex with persons of the same gender. Thus, when you see one of these terms in an English translation of the Bible, it is important to dig deeper and find what the original Hebrew or Greek ...








    Those stories don't prove anything, they are normal people, heterosexuals go through that shit all the time Scars.

    None of that changes the FACTS Scars. If you truly have the indwelling to God's Spirit then you will know that homosexuality is not a sin.

    Here let me lay out the facts for you

    - Homosexuality never is said to be a sin in the bible
    - Homosexuality actually means ritualistic rape
    - qadesh means a male temple prostitute who engaged in ritual sex; it is often mistranslated as “sodomite” or “homosexual.”
    - to’ebah means a condemned foreign Pagan religious cult practice, but often translated as “abomination.”

    "The words “homosexual” and “homosexuality” do not appear in the Bible—at least they are absent from the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts. The authors of the Bible did not understand sexual orientation; this concept was only developed in the late 19th century. The writers had little or no comprehension of same-sex committed relationships. Their languages had no words for these concepts. Rather, they assumed that everyone was heterosexual, but that some heterosexuals engaged in sex with persons of the same gender. Thus, when you see one of these terms in an English translation of the Bible, it is important to dig deeper and find what the original Hebrew or Greek text really means."

    "In Biblical times, same-gender sexual interactions could take many forms. Some were:

    1. kings of conquered tribes were sometimes raped by the invading army as the ultimate symbol of defeat and humiliation. Homosexual rape was also a way of humiliating visitors and strangers. These were acts of power and domination and had nothing in common with consentual sex by gays and lesbians.
    2. some non-Jewish tribes in the area had male prostitutes in their temples who ritually engaged in same-sex activities; this horrified the ancient Israelites. Temple prostitution is no longer found in most areas of the world.
    3. it was common within the Roman Empire for male adults to keep boy prostitutes for the purpose of sexual activity. The boys were often slaves. In modern times, this is considered child abuse, a criminal offense.
    4. it is reasonable to assume that many loving gay and lesbian relationships existed in Biblical times, but these would normally have been conducted in secret. "

    You are absolutely WRONG. Please ADMIT IT, you can't hide behind the word of god because the WORD OF GOD is that HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT A SIN
    (more)
  • Scars R... Connor ... 2009/08/16 17:31:08
    Scars Remain (aka Vicki)
    Vile = atimia
    dishonour, vile, shame, reproach

    Strong's Concordance: in a state of disgrace, used in the unseemliness of a dead body. With contempt of myself, by way of disparagement. Base lust, vile passions.
    For a dishonorable use as a vessel.

    Doesn't sound good to me.
  • Connor ... Scars R... 2009/08/16 20:44:47
    Connor Pope
    "Base lust"

    Sin of lust.
  • z-Madness-z 2009/08/15 03:29:59
    z-Madness-z
    +2
    *nod nod* I know it. But being an agnostic I can't say anything to them. It's hypocritical. Now, if a Christian (like UBER Jesus-freak) pointed that out, there would be some questions and all hell would break loose. I mean, heaven forbid more people would live happy married lives with their loved ones. Heaven. Forbid. It.
  • BlackREBEL$OULJA 2009/08/15 03:20:45
    BlackREBEL$OULJA
    Leviticus 20:13

    If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. leviticus 2013 lie mankind lieth woman committed abomination death blood
  • Connor ... BlackRE... 2009/08/15 03:23:29
    Connor Pope
    Not only is what they are saying in that a sin against god but I doubt you even read what I wrote MR. NITE.

    Read it THEN respond kk?

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