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Natural born citizen: what does that mean?

Temlakos~POTL~PWCM~JLA~☆ 2012/05/03 17:35:47
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What is a natural born citizen?

Article II, Section 1, Paragraph 5 of the Constitution of the United States reads in part:


No person, except a natural born citizen,…shall be eligible to the office of President.


The word natural is even more important than the word born. Natural born citizen is a concept from natural law.


“Natural law” is more than a buzz phrase. It is as real as law itself. Natural law is law that follows from the nature of nation-states. It is the source of all the inherent powers of, and limits on, nation-states.


One of the most “natural” of natural laws concerns citizenship. In Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162 (1875), the Supreme Court observed that the Constitution never defined natural born citizen directly:


The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be
natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that.
At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the
Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born
in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon
their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born
citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities
go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction
without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class
there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of
this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient
for everything we have now to consider that all children born of citizen
parents within the jurisdiction are themselves citizens.


In short, the Court said that anyone born in-country to two citizen parents is also a citizen. No one needs to define that. To say that such a person were not a citizen, would make zero sense. This is the power of natural law. Furthermore: what natural law grants to a person, nothing can deny.


Note also that the Minor court cited “doubts” existing in 1875, even after the Fourteenth Amendment, whether any person born in the territory is a citizen, no matter what the status of his parents. US v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898), would settle that. But that settlement goes beyond natural law to positive law.


Natural law v. positive law
The Constitution relies on natural law to define a natural born citizen

The US Constitution. Photo: National Archives of the United States


Positive law is the law that legislatures, or Constitutional Convention delegates, make. Positive law also includes case law,
or the “law” that judges “make.” The problem: what positive law grants,
positive law can revoke. Congresses and States can amend Constitutions.
Congress can repeal laws. Supreme and other appellate courts can
reverse lower courts and even reverse precedent.


Amendment XIV defines a citizen of the United States thus:


All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and
subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States
and of the State wherein they reside.


US v. Wong Kim Ark held:


As appears upon the face of the amendment, as well as
from the history of the times, this was not intended to impose any new
restrictions upon citizenship, or to prevent any persons from becoming
citizens by the fact of birth within the United States, who would
thereby have become citizens according to the law existing before its
adoption. It is declaratory in form, and enabling and extending in
effect. Its main purpose doubtless was, as has been often recognized by
this court, to establish the citizenship of free negroes, which had been
denied in the opinion delivered by Chief Justice Taney in Dred Scott v. Sandford, (1857) 19 How. 393;
and to put it beyond doubt that all blacks, as well as whites, born or
naturalized within the jurisdiction of the United States, are citizens
of the United States. The Slaughterhouse Cases, (1873) 16 Wall. 36, 73; Strauder v. West Virginia, (1879) 100 U.S. 303, 306; Ex parte Virginia, (1879) 100 U.S. 339, 345; Neal v. Delaware, (1880) 103 U.S. 370, 386; Elk v. Wilkins, (1884) 112 U.S. 94, 101.
But the opening words, “All persons born,” are general, not to say
universal, restricted only by place and jurisdiction, and not by color
or race — as was clearly recognized in all the opinions delivered in The Slaughterhouse Cases, above cited.


And thus the court said that a member of any race, once born in the United States to persons lawfully resident therein, is a citizen.


But the Wong court clearly did not change the meaning of natural born citizen. It even cited the Minor case, and Chief Justice Waite’s per curiam (i.e. unanimous) opinion. And the Wong court never said that the Minor court was in error.


Nor could it have so held. The Fourteenth Amendment defines, as positive law, who has the “privileges and immunities” of citizenship. But it cannot change the natural law definition of a natural born citizen. Nor did Wong Kim Ark ever ask
the Court to do this. Wong Kim Ark was not trying to run for President
of the United States. He was trying to stay in-country in the face of
the Chinese Exclusion Acts.


Confusing the issue

Recently, Bret Baier of the Fox News Channel confused what a natural born citizen is. He cited 8 USC Section 1401. That law says who is an American national and citizen at birth,
and names eight different ways to be one. Paragraph (a) of that law
merely restates the Fourteenth Amendment. The other paragraphs grant
citizenship to persons born abroad to citizen parents (jus sanguinis), persons born into native tribes (Beringians, Inuit, Aleut, etc.), and so on.


As Professor Herb Titus further explained, citizen at birth and natural born citizen are not the same.

Read More: http://www.conservativenewsandviews.com/2012/05/03...

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Top Opinion

  • Temlakos~POTL~PWCM~JLA~☆ 2012/05/03 17:38:00
    Born in-country to TWO citizen parents
    Temlakos~POTL~PWCM~JLA~☆
    +13
    That's it. Natural born citizen depends on natural law. This affects Presidential and Vice-Presidential candidates in both parties. If they skate on this, natural law will have no meaning. And then the Constitution really will be "a living document." Or as Thomas Jefferson warned: "a mere thing of wax for the Court to shape and mold as it pleases." Or a Congress. Or a silver-tongued devil of a candidate.

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Opinions

  • Dan (Po... Temlako... 2012/05/04 02:03:41
    Dan (Politicaly Incorrect)
    There are exceptions to that. Such as military members and government workers in a foreign country.
  • Roblem BN-0 2012/05/03 22:48:23 (edited)
    Defined in another way (please share):
    Roblem BN-0
  • Cyan9 2012/05/03 22:13:28
    Born in-country REGARDLESS of the citizenship of your parents
    Cyan9
    +7
    read the 14th amendment guys. 7 different Presidents assumed the office with having less than 2 parents of American birth. This includes Jefferson, Jackson, Buchanan, Arthur, Wilson, Hoover and Obama. Clearly it doesn't matter where one's parents are born.
  • Jeremiah Cyan9 2012/05/04 00:00:42
    Jeremiah
    Well researched and well said.
  • Maria 2012/05/03 21:05:56
    Born in-country to TWO citizen parents
    Maria
    +3
    There are those who dislike Obama’s policies and just want him out of office. There are those who like the socialism he’s been working to install in the U.S. and probably will vote for him again. And there are those who have done some research and say the simple logic of the facts regarding Obama confirms he’s not eligible under the Constitution’s requirements for a person to be president. Jon McNaughton
    Court better get busy and to speed up and stop Obama for re-election...
  • ProudPr... Maria 2012/05/03 21:12:55
    ProudProgressive
    +8
    92 courts, in 26 states, with justices appointed by the last six Presidents, have unanimously been "busy" throwing these delusional nonsensical racist birthers out of court.

    This horse is long dead. Time to stop beating it.
  • Jeremiah Maria 2012/05/04 00:01:36
    Jeremiah
    +1
    Actually he is eligible, according to two federal judges and the U.S. Senate.
  • Maria Jeremiah 2012/05/04 01:54:08
    Maria
    Really don't mind give me the link? Thanks..
  • Jeremiah Maria 2012/05/04 17:53:47
  • ProudProgressive 2012/05/03 20:56:22
    Born in-country REGARDLESS of the citizenship of your parents
    ProudProgressive
    +5
    Don't you guys ever get tired of beating this dead horse?

    I know you guys have no common sense, but if you did you would realize that "citizen from birth" and "natural born citizen" and "native born citizen" all mean EXACTLY THE SAME THING. The purpose of the natural born citizen clause in Article II was to prevent foreign nationals from coming to this country, becoming citizens and then infiltrating the highest levels of our government. They didn't care where your parents were from. They cared where you were from. And in reality, the 14th Amendment de facto eliminated the natural born citizen requirement entirely. It established explicitly that there are two types of US citizens - those born citizens (aka "natural born") and those who become citizens through naturalization. The supposed distinction between "born citizen" and "natural born citizen" in reality does not exist. Nor should it, since there is no logical reason for any such distinction.
  • John James ProudPr... 2012/05/03 21:07:13
    John James
    +4
    Keep spinning
  • Jimbo John James 2012/05/03 23:03:06
    Jimbo
    +2
    Just because you like to be dizzy does not mean others want to be delusional.
  • John James Jimbo 2012/05/04 03:58:50
    John James
    +1
    I am not the one who is spinning lies
  • Jeremiah John James 2012/05/04 17:55:14
    Jeremiah
    Who is doing that?
  • JoeM ProudPr... 2012/05/04 03:07:34
    JoeM
    +1
    Your argument is certainly one of three that can be made. But only one of three, So I take exception with your last two lines.
  • Contarded Chickenhawk Con S... 2012/05/03 20:52:55
    Defined in another way (please share):
    Contarded Chickenhawk Con Slayer
    +6
    How about it means time to give the red herrings a rest?

    red herring
  • Cal 2012/05/03 20:35:11
    Born in-country to TWO citizen parents
    Cal
    +6
    This one.
  • Link 2012/05/03 20:32:24
    Defined in another way (please share):
    Link
    +6
    Non-cesarean section, no anesthesia... All natural... LOL...
  • sbtbill Link 2012/05/03 21:08:16
    sbtbill
    +1
    I knew we hadn't had a qualified President since 1800.
  • Link sbtbill 2012/05/03 21:40:51
  • JoeM 2012/05/03 20:01:18
    Defined in another way (please share):
    JoeM
    +2
    Born in the country, territory, or possessions of the US, to Parents that are legally in the country. For instance: A Man and Woman married in the US, both on a path to citizenship through naturalization have a child.
    Or to be eligible for presidency, one parent being a natural born citizen, has a child with a legal resident, on a path to citizenship, the child should be considered a natural born citizen.
  • John James JoeM 2012/05/03 21:08:16
    John James
    +3
    The one parent being natural born, has to be the father.
  • Jeremiah John James 2012/05/04 00:05:00
    Jeremiah
    Did you just make that up?
  • John James Jeremiah 2012/05/04 03:59:36
    John James
    Nope, it has been part of natural law, and the law of nations for 100's of years
  • Jeremiah John James 2012/05/04 17:56:25 (edited)
    Jeremiah
    I have serious doubts about that, but it is not a part of U.S. law. Do you have a link so we can all take a look?
  • JoeM John James 2012/05/04 03:12:06
    JoeM
    +1
    Within the interpretations of several cases in the last 50 years, I would have to argue against your position. I do not wish to take the time to look up the actual cases, but I believe that gender would be held as inconsequential.
  • John James JoeM 2012/05/04 03:59:51
    John James
    You would be wrong
  • JoeM John James 2012/05/04 16:14:52
    JoeM
    +1
    Toss me a bone here.... what case are you citing here?
  • Jeremiah JoeM 2012/05/04 17:56:52
    Jeremiah
    +1
    You are correct.
  • Jeremiah JoeM 2012/05/04 00:04:39
    Jeremiah
    You are complicating it. Anyone born on U.S. soil is a natural-born citizen. Period.
  • John James Jeremiah 2012/05/04 04:00:13
    John James
    +1
    Not natural born unless the father is a citizen
  • Jeremiah John James 2012/05/04 17:57:42 (edited)
    Jeremiah
    You have a link to that law or court ruling?
  • MBSVirginia BN-2 2012/05/03 19:50:37
    Born in-country to TWO citizen parents
    MBSVirginia BN-2
    +6
    But the point is moot. We've already broken the law.
  • rightside 2012/05/03 19:39:46
    Defined in another way (please share):
    rightside
    +7
    For the most part, its people born in America, and it also includes people like me who were born on soil occupied by American military.
  • Cyan9 rightside 2012/05/03 23:29:09
    Cyan9
    +1
    or John McCain too.
  • rightside Cyan9 2012/05/04 02:05:19
    rightside
    absolutely
  • Chief 2012/05/03 19:30:29 (edited)
    Born in-country REGARDLESS of the citizenship of your parents
    Chief
    +3
    Since the constitution didn't specifically define natural born citizen the term was defined by the Naturalization Act of 1790 and later by Lynch v. Clarke (1844). And you need to read United States v. Wong Kim Ark (1898) a little closer.
  • John James Chief 2012/05/03 21:08:54
    John James
    +1
    Your parents had to have been citizens, to be natural born
  • ProudPr... John James 2012/05/03 21:15:17
    ProudProgressive
    +3
    Then how is it that the court in the Ark case found that Mr. Ark, born on US soil to two non-citizen parents, was in fact "a citizen of the United States from birth", in other words, a natural born citizen?
  • Chief John James 2012/05/03 21:23:41
    Chief
    +3
    excerpt from Lynch v. Clark (1884) - Upon principle, therefore, I can entertain no doubt, but that by the law of the United States, every person born within the dominions and allegiance of the United States, whatever the situation of his parents, is a natural born citizen.
    and
    Suppose a person should be elected president who was native born, but of alien parents; could there be any reasonable doubt that he was eligible under the Constitution? I think not. The position would be decisive in his favor, that by the rule of the common law, in force when the Constitution was adopted, he is a citizen.

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