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Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan's Medicare "kills Medicare"

Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot 2012/08/23 16:05:54

Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan's Medicare "kills Medicare." Rating: False.

Guy Benson


An email blast from a Democratic campaign committee resurrected this claim, which was ranked by left-leaning Politifact as the 2011 political "lie of the year." Other Democrats have hedged slightly, modifying their accusation to say Romney and Ryan would "end Medicare as we know it." The DNC Chairwoman has described the plan as a "death trap" for seniors, and a "tornado" tearing through nursing homes. This is hysteria, and bears no relation to reality. For the full facts on the dueling Medicare reform visions, read this piece. The basics: According to its own actuaries, Medicare is slated to become insolvent within 12 years. This would result in major cuts for current seniors, and the implosion of the program for future generations (who are still paying into it, under penalty of law). In other words, basic math will "end Medicare as we know it" soon, absent reform. Everyone acknowledges this hard reality, including the president. The Romney-Ryan solution is modeled on a bipartisan proposal co-authored by Paul Ryan and liberal Democratic Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon. The plan grandfathers in all citizens 55 years old or older, guaranteeing no changes from current policy. For younger Americans, Medicare benefits would be paid out under a federal premium support program, as future seniors would choose among a menu of options. One of these options would remain the traditional fee-for-service Medicare model. The others would be private plans, competing for seniors' business. The Obama plan is quite different. The president transferred $700 Billion in Medicare cuts in order to partially fund his new Affordable Care Act, or "Obamacare." This maneuver is resulting in real cuts to current seniors. According to the federal Medicare accountants, it strips four million seniors out of the popular "Medicare Advantage" program, and cuts government reimbursements to care-givers and hospitals. Medicare's chief actuary estimated this could result in the closure of 1 in 6 hospitals that treat seniors. As for the future, long-term solvency of the program for future generations, the president has not proposed anything that even approaches the level of a meaningful plan.

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  • amoobrasil 2012/08/28 23:07:11
    amoobrasil
    Your statement that the $700 billion in Medicare cuts to partially fund Obamacare is false, according to Politifact:

    " That's the number -- $716 billion to be precise -- that's gotten tossed around this week.

    We've posted two fact-checks to explore the back and forth between the campaigns.

    In an interview on the CBS program 60 Minutes, Mitt Romney said Obama "robbed Medicare" of $716 billion to pay for "Obamacare." We found that exaggerated what Obama had done in the health care law.

    While the health care law reduces the amount of future spending growth in Medicare, the law doesn't actually cut Medicare. Savings come from reducing money that goes to private insurers who provide Medicare Advantage programs, among other things. The money wasn’t "robbed." We rated the statement MOSTLY FALSE.

    Responding to the Romney attack, Obama campaign spokeswoman Stephanie Cutter said Ryan's budget relies on the same $700 billion in savings from Medicare that Mitt Romney and other Republicans have been attacking Democrats about.

    Ryan has confirmed that, and we rated it TRUE."

    Looking more closely, note that the Romney/Ryan proposal also projects some $700 plus in Medicare cuts, but these are not taken (as is the case with Obamacare) mostly from Medicare Plus, which is based on a subsid...



    Your statement that the $700 billion in Medicare cuts to partially fund Obamacare is false, according to Politifact:

    " That's the number -- $716 billion to be precise -- that's gotten tossed around this week.

    We've posted two fact-checks to explore the back and forth between the campaigns.

    In an interview on the CBS program 60 Minutes, Mitt Romney said Obama "robbed Medicare" of $716 billion to pay for "Obamacare." We found that exaggerated what Obama had done in the health care law.

    While the health care law reduces the amount of future spending growth in Medicare, the law doesn't actually cut Medicare. Savings come from reducing money that goes to private insurers who provide Medicare Advantage programs, among other things. The money wasn’t "robbed." We rated the statement MOSTLY FALSE.

    Responding to the Romney attack, Obama campaign spokeswoman Stephanie Cutter said Ryan's budget relies on the same $700 billion in savings from Medicare that Mitt Romney and other Republicans have been attacking Democrats about.

    Ryan has confirmed that, and we rated it TRUE."

    Looking more closely, note that the Romney/Ryan proposal also projects some $700 plus in Medicare cuts, but these are not taken (as is the case with Obamacare) mostly from Medicare Plus, which is based on a subsidy paid to private health-insurance companies for greater benefits. In fact, the companies are keeping a huge percentage of the subsidy. The Obama savings comes from taking back the part of this subsidy that pay for no increased value in Medicare services.

    The Romney/Ryan proposal cuts Medicare benefits from the benefits from themselves, allowing private insurance companies to continue to leech from the American taxpayer. (http://www.politifact.com/tr...

    This policy is in keeping with GOP allegiances to the oligarchy.
    (more)
  • Jackie ... amoobrasil 2012/08/29 00:47:37 (edited)
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    It is in the damn bill - you can line up who the hell you want - It is a fact and that SOB needs to vacate the WH and the sooner the better

    The CBO says it - I guess they did not check with Obama minions.

    There are only two men that have any plan to save Medicare for the future and those men are Romney and Ryan.

    Geez, just looked at your profile - an Obama shill - go away, we can listen to his bull snot and that of his minions all day long - no one cares for this crapola on here.
    Go make your salary somewhere else.
  • RogerCoppock 2012/08/26 14:13:39
    RogerCoppock
    +1
    FACT: Paul Ryan's budget, voted for my the overwhelming majority of Republicans, kills Medicare, replacing it with vouchers too small to provide real coverage.
  • Jackie ... RogerCo... 2012/08/26 14:25:17
  • RogerCo... Jackie ... 2012/08/26 18:03:12
    RogerCoppock
    +1
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    FACT: Paul Ryan's budget, voted for my the overwhelming majority of Republicans, kills Medicare, replacing it with vouchers too small to provide real coverage.
  • Jackie ... RogerCo... 2012/08/26 18:06:26 (edited)
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    LOL - Don't let knowledge interfere with your ideology. You could, of course, try reading the final plan but hell, so much fun to remain in the dark.

    Hang in there tootsie

    PS One might think you are a racist calling a minority a "jive monkey" - not me, I know you are just being unpleasant and rude but some may.
  • amoobrasil Jackie ... 2012/08/28 23:14:27
    amoobrasil
    The Romney/Ryan plan, whatever terms you use to disguise it, is a voucher system. From Politifact:

    "For a political discussion aimed at voters rather than policy wonks, we think Obama’s use of the term "voucher" is close enough to earn it a rating of Mostly True."

    To people like me, giving me a form of "premium support" (voucher) to go out and find health coverage on my own in my old age is a rotten proposition.

    Nothing happens to anyone 55 or over? Politifact rates this a half truth, since services now covered under Medicare as altered by Obamacare will be rolled back. Here is the conclusion:

    "Ryan wants seniors to know his and Romney’s Medicare plan "does not affect your benefits." Indeed, that’s the case for their Medicare reform ideas, which would not affect people currently 55 and older.

    But his assurance does not take into account one very large elephant in the room: the federal health care law, which alters Medicare primarily by extending more benefits and savings. Romney and Ryan want to "repeal and replace Obamacare," but they haven’t said with what. Repealing the law would take away benefits for current enrollees.

    Some experts say it’s unrealistic to expect that level of policy detail. Maybe so, but until the leaders expound upon their plans for closing the doughnut h...

    The Romney/Ryan plan, whatever terms you use to disguise it, is a voucher system. From Politifact:

    "For a political discussion aimed at voters rather than policy wonks, we think Obama’s use of the term "voucher" is close enough to earn it a rating of Mostly True."

    To people like me, giving me a form of "premium support" (voucher) to go out and find health coverage on my own in my old age is a rotten proposition.

    Nothing happens to anyone 55 or over? Politifact rates this a half truth, since services now covered under Medicare as altered by Obamacare will be rolled back. Here is the conclusion:

    "Ryan wants seniors to know his and Romney’s Medicare plan "does not affect your benefits." Indeed, that’s the case for their Medicare reform ideas, which would not affect people currently 55 and older.

    But his assurance does not take into account one very large elephant in the room: the federal health care law, which alters Medicare primarily by extending more benefits and savings. Romney and Ryan want to "repeal and replace Obamacare," but they haven’t said with what. Repealing the law would take away benefits for current enrollees.

    Some experts say it’s unrealistic to expect that level of policy detail. Maybe so, but until the leaders expound upon their plans for closing the doughnut hole for prescription drugs, as well as a number of other Affordable Care Act provisions that would disappear with repeal, we think it’s unrealistic to assure seniors their Medicare provisions wouldn’t change under a Romney-Ryan administration.

    We rate his claim Half True."
    (more)
  • Jackie ... amoobrasil 2012/08/29 00:48:29 (edited)
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    Obama paid shill - peddle your crap elsewhere Read the article and run away The facts are there
  • Carl 2012/08/25 23:51:23
    Carl
    +1
    In Saturday's IBD paper, they speak about Walmart and others wading into primary care medicine. Walmart started with generic $4 prescriptions. Others followed - CVS, Walgreeen. According to the latest CBO cost figures, the ACA has risen from 900 billion to 1.9 trillion if implemented as written. I see no cost savings from the feds.
  • Jackie ... Carl 2012/08/26 00:09:30
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    +1
    There are no cost savings and there are 28 new taxes in Obamacare and taking 716 Billion from medicare to help finance it is just wrong -

    Romney/Ryan plan makes sense and would same Medicare for future generations.
  • Carl Jackie ... 2012/08/27 21:20:04
    Carl
    +1
    I agree...
  • schjaz 2012/08/25 18:00:05
    schjaz
    +1
    Why don't they just deal with the truth? The Ryan plan is better than Obama's. Period. Any thinking person knows that.
  • Jackie ... schjaz 2012/08/26 14:07:30
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    +1
    True indeed
  • schjaz Jackie ... 2012/08/26 19:02:21
    schjaz
    +1
    I think they are mad they didn't come up with it. hahahaha. but then a socialist mind could have never thought this clearly.
  • amoobrasil schjaz 2012/08/28 23:28:55
    amoobrasil
    Define "socialist". You will find that our government is far from socialist. Successful countries like Germany, Japan, Sweden, Denmark, Austria, etc., etc., have a far better mixture of capitalism and socialism than we. That is why they do not have an ultra-wealthy bunch of families that own the GOP, the commercial media, and that--if left up to the GOP--will make all the rules just because they are rich and the rich are entitled to do so.
  • schjaz amoobrasil 2012/08/29 17:55:31
    schjaz
    +1
    You think Sweden is successful? Highest suicide rate in the world...along with Denmark.

    http://www.newgeography.com/c...

    Anymore...I think Big Government and overregulation is socialism. It cuts into the freewill of the individual and the liberty of a society.

    you said...ultra-wealthy bunch of families that own the GOP, the commercial media, and that--if left up to the GOP--will make all the rules just because they are rich and the rich are entitled to do so.
    uh huh.....but the Democrats are not like that. EVERYBODY knows that 90% of America's journalists vote Democrat. The media in this country is totally biased toward the Liberal agenda but you would like me to believe your above nonsense?
    nah.
  • Jackie ... schjaz 2012/08/29 00:57:44
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    +1
    Obama paid shill alert - get the word out - has spammed this entire poll with Obama crapola
  • schjaz Jackie ... 2012/08/29 17:55:50
    schjaz
    +1
    I am afraid so.
  • amoobrasil Jackie ... 2012/08/28 23:24:50
    amoobrasil
    Good thinking! Where did you get that persuasive argument?
  • amoobrasil schjaz 2012/08/28 23:24:25
    amoobrasil
    Of course! Anybody who challenges a bald, unsubstantiated assertion cannot possible be a thinking person, right?

    Not being a thinking person, I looked up in Politifact a summarized comparison of claims by the Romney campaign and the Obama campaign. As one who knows that the GOP has taken the side of the corporatist oligarchy against the American people since Reagan, I find it to be no surprise that the Obama proposal is more economical and, by keeping Medicare (3% overhead) out of the hands of health-insurance companies (reduced to 20% overhead under Obamacare), it assures future Medicare beneficiaries that they will not have to rely on the value of vouchers to purchase health insurance.
  • schjaz amoobrasil 2012/08/29 18:05:26
    schjaz
    +1
    You will not achieve your uber liberal, anarchistic agenda in this country.

    Obamacare is not more economical. Obama has STOLEN over 700 billion dollars out of Medicare. Do you care about that? Face it, if Obamacare was so great, the politicians would be lining up to get it but they are EXEMPT from Obamacare.
    It has already pushed MY premiums higher and they will go higher still. Are you rich? I am not rich and I am being strangled by your communistic laws and taxes.
    Medicare is being raped by the Democrats and the Republicans have the answer to save it so that not one person over 55 will see any change at all but you want something else entirely, don't you? You want this country to burn from the streets up, don't you?
  • Vision of Verve 2012/08/23 20:59:58
  • Jackie ... Vision ... 2012/08/23 21:21:20
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    +2
    You too, those pesky fact - just hate em, eh
  • unicorn_lady1 2012/08/23 20:21:10
    unicorn_lady1
    +3
    OMG Jackie.. facts... are you crazy... liberals won't read facts!

    Thank you for showing intelligent people the real facts and giving them the information to make an informed choice. Although - how anyone cannot see that Obama is all about votes with little care for the people, is beyond me.
  • Jackie ... unicorn... 2012/08/23 21:22:29
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    +3
    Agree - they look at the facts and go for rhetoric - hard to understand
  • kmay 2012/08/23 19:30:42 (edited)
    kmay
    +4
    Liberal BS mantra.

    Ends Medicare only as the bloated bureaucratic system it is currently.

    Over 55 not affected. I'll take a voucher system anyday!

    Also ,Tort reform [Obama refuses to do] will make it twice as sweet!!
  • Jackie ... kmay 2012/08/23 21:22:52
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    +1
    Yes it is -- thanks for responding
  • A Founding Father 2012/08/23 18:45:19
    A Founding Father
    +1
    Picture the Ryan plan for yourself. First, you get a "voucher" in the mail, good for two or three visits to a Doctor willing to accept the token fee Medicare will pay for your visit, and for a once-each-year laboratory analysis of your blood. If you have to go to the hospital,
    your co-pay will be whatever the hospital wishes to charge you ($6-10,000/day) less the Medicare reimbursement of approximately $1,500/day. All the expenses you incur beyond the voucher limits are your "problem", knowing that unless you have a pre-existing condition (diabetes, high blood pressure, enlarged prostate, heart disease, obesity, gout,
    family history of one of these, etc) you can buy insurance from one of Wall Street's larger
    public corporations to cover a portion of your potential liabilities, maybe at a cost of $800-2,000/month depending on your age.

    This is a win-win for almost everyone. Doctors can refuse to see Medicare patients. Hospitals can collect large bills from those with assets or property. Insurance companies can earn $Billions, maybe hundreds of $Billions, selling more policies. The funeral industry will be stimulated and forced to hire additional employees, which will help fulfill
    Romney's commitment to add employment. Now, since you aren't one of the "Top 2% Club" members, no one cares if you aren't benefited by this arrangement, so suck it up and decide if this is for you.
  • Jackie ... A Found... 2012/08/23 18:55:55 (edited)
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    +1
    Let me make sure I understand - you believe that seniors earning 400k and above per year should continue to pay nothing rather than giving them a voucher that will mean that they may end up paying around 6k a year for their own health care. Next you believe that those earning between 160K and 399K per years should continue to pay nothing rather than getting a voucher and paying about 4K a year for their own health care. Those under 160K per year would have to pay nothing for their care.

    And you would prefer that the entire program would disappear completely and be absorbed by Obamacare as planned. We know that the $716 billion cut from Medicare along with the 14 member panel will deeply affect current seniors because it cuts funds to doctors, hospitals and nursing home; you like that I assume.

    Well Obama and his minions have no use for the elderly - no more tax revenue to reward donors with and they are just not necessary when one can get cheers from the grade schools.

    You need to face the facts presented by the Medicare actuaries and the Medicare trustees - time to stop the lies and distortions - Medicare must be reformed.
  • A Found... Jackie ... 2012/08/23 19:14:23 (edited)
    A Founding Father
    +1
    I've been aware of Medicare's needs for decades. Certainly it needs to be reformed. But, I recall how well the medical care system worked before Congress and Reagan decided to "privatise" it. Once the motive of huge profits was introduced, Pandora's Box of problems began and have continued to eat the heart out of care until this very day. Wall Street began to finance new hospitals, nursing homes, and a host of specialized facilities. Insurance companies forced private physicians to form group practices in order to afford their insurance coverages. The "fee for service" idea brought about needless duplications of exams, laboratory analysis, needless "services", and a host of unbelievably expensive and wasted efforts. Pharmaceutical house now sell pills at prices up to 5,000 times the cost to produce, distribute and market. Where greed is encouraged it will certainly flourish.

    Romney and Ryan are playing to the Republican Party obsession with placing Wall Street in charge of something, claiming benefits to society. Mitten can prove how large the benefits of "deregulation" and "Reaganomics" can be, but the other side of the coin is a tale of loss and destruction. The "voucher" idea is nothing short of a scam, a red herring, to shift the medical care of seniors into the ...


    I've been aware of Medicare's needs for decades. Certainly it needs to be reformed. But, I recall how well the medical care system worked before Congress and Reagan decided to "privatise" it. Once the motive of huge profits was introduced, Pandora's Box of problems began and have continued to eat the heart out of care until this very day. Wall Street began to finance new hospitals, nursing homes, and a host of specialized facilities. Insurance companies forced private physicians to form group practices in order to afford their insurance coverages. The "fee for service" idea brought about needless duplications of exams, laboratory analysis, needless "services", and a host of unbelievably expensive and wasted efforts. Pharmaceutical house now sell pills at prices up to 5,000 times the cost to produce, distribute and market. Where greed is encouraged it will certainly flourish.

    Romney and Ryan are playing to the Republican Party obsession with placing Wall Street in charge of something, claiming benefits to society. Mitten can prove how large the benefits of "deregulation" and "Reaganomics" can be, but the other side of the coin is a tale of loss and destruction. The "voucher" idea is nothing short of a scam, a red herring, to shift the medical care of seniors into the hands of insurance companies who will determine what they will cover, what "conditions" they will not inure, and for how much, probably around $2-6,000/month, depending much on the age of the applicants. For MItten and those he is personally acquainted with, such small numbers are of no consequence, about the cost of their gardeners or limo drivers. But, for the remaining 99% of our citizens, the expense would be a total disaster.

    Mitten has proposed more tax reductions for his wealthy friends and shifting a greater burden onto workers, with the gap being again added to the National Debt.
    There is not enough money collected to feed the military industrial complex and care for our living citizens. The choice is clear, making a larger military (we now spend more than all the remaining nations of the earth combined) or reforming Medicare to remove the greed and profits to public corporations from the system and taking care of ourselves. Clear choice, just muddied by the shams and pretenses.
    (more)
  • Jackie ... A Found... 2012/08/23 21:24:09
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    +1
    You bet there is a clear choice - the collapse and destruction of America or Romney.
  • MadAsHEck Jackie ... 2012/08/23 21:08:52
    MadAsHEck
    +2
    He is rather ignorant of the facts.

    Actually for those over 55 there .will be "NO CHANGE"

    For those under 55, they will get a voucher with which they can shop for the plan that suits their needs. Actually the same plan that government employees, Congress and the President and his administration get. Creating competitopm among insurance companies, and eventual streamlining of the entire system. A plan that under Obamacare is referred to as a Cadillac plan, and will be curtailed.
  • Jackie ... MadAsHEck 2012/08/23 21:25:47
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    +1
    True - but because some of these folks refuse to look at facts and prefer empty rhetoric, it is nearly impossible to reach them. It is rather like them hacking a hole in the Titanic and they wondering why they are sinking

    Have a good day
  • amoobrasil Jackie ... 2012/08/28 23:34:26
    amoobrasil
    Wrong. We must pay back to Medicare what it is owed from all the borrowing to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy, unfunded wars, etc. Rather than do so, the GOP decides to take the money from future Medicare beneficiaries.

    I am at best lukewarm about Obamacare. What would work best in this country is any of a number of outcomes-based (rather than profit-based) health-care systems in all First-World countries but the US. We would cover everyone at half the cost we are putting into our broken, corrupt system.
  • Jackie ... amoobrasil 2012/08/29 00:50:29 (edited)
  • Rebel Yell 2012/08/23 18:16:16
    Rebel Yell
    +3
    I am not confused at all about what the Republicans are trying to do to Medicare. They are killing it and in the process they are making sure that I will be broke paying private insurers for mediocre coverage. It is a horrible idea.

    At some point in the future, I will have to pay even more once I am no longer working. What really galls me is when Lyin' Ryan the Weasel says "we" when he is talking about the new plan, as if he too will be getting a 15K voucher instead of his taxpayer funded golden health care as well as his platinum pensions.

    Putting Medicare into the hands of private insurance is the end of the program. Insurance will raise the price to a point where many will not be able to pay. Sane people reaize this, and that is why Ryan was booed at a town hall in his own state. The weasel's reason to move his plan out to 2022 is the loss of votes that would occur if they tried it any sooner. Wow- Republican thinking at it's finest!

    Ah yes, Rep Ryan, who helps fund your campaigns? Who has lobbied you and bought your opinion? Could it be the insurance companies, perchance?
  • Jackie ... Rebel Yell 2012/08/23 18:34:46
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    +4
    Obviously you did not read this or have ignored the factual information available from Medicare trustees and Medicare actuaries. I realize that smear is fun but I prefer facts and the facts prove you wrong.

    Thanks for responding
  • Cognito22 Jackie ... 2012/08/23 18:45:00
    Cognito22
    +3
    One of the tactics that the Democrats are using is to use Ryan's old plan.
    It's been modified twice since then.
  • Jackie ... Cognito22 2012/08/23 18:57:20
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    +2
    I know - they will not listen to the Medicare actuaries or trustees - insanity
  • amoobrasil Jackie ... 2012/08/28 23:44:37
    amoobrasil
    They do. And to the CBO. Check them out and publish the "facts".

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