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Miller: Christian Nation or Not?

Herb 2012/07/10 23:29:51
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By Duane A. Miller July 10, 2012 6:55 am

Christian Nation…yes or no? The question is a hotly debated issue in political and religious arenas today. Are we a Christian Nation? Were we ever a Christian Nation? I fear that there is a lot of heat generated by the debate, but not much light.

The phrase “Christian Nation” has, unfortunately, many connotations which translate into hot-button political rhetoric in a heartbeat. Please allow me to stake out our position right here. Is the United States a Christian nation? Yes!....and No!

If by “Christian Nation” you mean do we have and support a State Church, such as the Anglican Church in England, the answer is NO. History has taught again and again that when the State and the Church are one and the same; when the Monarch heads the State Church, the people suffer.

It was for that very reason the Puritans left Europe and came to America. They wanted to be able to worship in the style and enjoy the freedom to create their own doctrine disallowed under a State Church. The Puritans came to these shores to create what they considered a Christian nation.

However, what they ultimately created was not much different in structure than what they had rebelled against. Ask the Quakers, the Baptists, and any other Christian dissenters who did not share the Puritan Congregationalist doctrine about how Christian their treatment was under the Puritans. You will find a story not much different from Europe. Unfortunately, those who are trying to purge any vestige of Christianity from our culture, use the Puritan example as their mace to bludgeon those who hold that we are indeed a Christian Nation.

Separation of Church and State

“Separation of Church and State” has never had anything to do with the United States being a secular state and destroying the Christian faith and practice. Separation simply meant that no one denomination, style, sect, or version of faith was to become “THE” state religion; that our government was not to be involved in running faith-based organizations.

What has happened, over time, is that government has exalted itself to become “the” church and wields its legislative authority to usurp the responsibilities of faith-based organizations to society. In so doing, the “Church” is hoped to be seen as irrelevant and archaic by those who hold a governmental supremacy position, and government is, in fact, worshipped. Check the People’s Republic of North Korea, the old Soviet Union…monuments to the success of state-bred atheism…right? Those two nations, among others, would never be considered as “Christian nations,” but they are the epitome of where the current administration would take us.

The USA is a Christian Nation

What the majority of us who believe that the United States is a Christian nation believe is that the founders of this nation were men and women of faith. The Christian faith is woven into the basic fabric of our culture and should be recognized, not battered.

While I may be a Baptist, I certainly do not want the Baptist Church to become the official “State” church. I, also, will fight to my dying breath to be certain that Baptists and all other Christian sects are not stricken from the American political and cultural stage.

The United States of America has a Christian heritage and the re-writing of history by those who consider the Bible and faith anathema is where we “conservatives” ignite. Organizations like Americans United, the ACLU, and the Interfaith Alliance disdain Christianity at its core, yet they are seen as “enlightened” and “tolerant” and enjoy their viewpoint being disseminated widely by the current press.

The Proud Americans want every person, whatever his faith, to be able to practice his faith on these shores without governmental interference. It is the Christian respect for human dignity that requires that liberty. But, we do not want the Federal Government, through the Department of Health and Human Services to force Christians to violate their faith by providing contraception. It is respect for our heritage as a Christian nation that is being challenged, and we object.

America IS a Christian nation at its core and in its cultural heritage. Biblical principles are fundamental to our legal system and our society. We were never intended to be a secular state where Christianity is ridiculed and marginalized. The government was never envisioned by any founder as “God.” As Christians, we do not wish to exclude any other faith from worship; we just don’t want to be branded “terrorists” by those who do not share our faith.

Read More: http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/2012/07/10/miller...

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  • Sayer Stewart 2012/08/16 18:32:11
    i say
    Sayer Stewart
  • Ishmael 2012/07/11 07:37:23
    i say
    Ishmael
    The US is most definitely NOT a Christian Nation. It quite explicitly states that in Article 11 of the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli,

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    signed by President John Adams and unanimously ratified by the Senate. Making it Constitutional Law under the Supremacy Clause of the US Constitution. Here's the Actual Article 11 text:

    Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

    Case closed.
  • Herb Ishmael 2012/07/12 19:58:47 (edited)
    Herb
    we were based on christian nation from the pilgrims and james town look up the mayflower treaty lol.
  • Ishmael Herb 2012/07/12 20:49:57
    Ishmael
    The Mayflower Compact has no force of Law. I know. My ancestors on the Isham side of the family were THERE when it was signed. Conversely, the SIGNED AND RATIFIED Treaty of Tripoli, INCLUDING Article 11 DOES have the force of Federal Law under the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution.
  • Herb Ishmael 2012/07/12 21:29:41
    Herb
    but only a few signed it not all the founders even john adams can make a mistake. or jefferson, or ben franklin how many founders signed this treaty to my memory not many.
  • Ishmael Herb 2012/07/12 21:49:21
    Ishmael
    That's irrelevant to the issue. John Adams SIGNED the Treaty AS President, including Article 11. It was then ratified UNANIMOUSLY by the Senate, which only requires a 2/3ds majority for Treaty ratification to give it the force of law. Are you trying to tell me that BOTH President Adams AND all 30 members of the Senate were part of a secret Muslim Cabal?
  • Herb Ishmael 2012/07/12 21:54:03 (edited)
    Herb
    no but the country was founded on god since the pilgrims this treaty says nothing.
  • Ishmael Herb 2012/07/12 22:02:43
    Ishmael
    Wrong again, Herb. The Treaty and, therefore, Federal LAW EXPRESSLY states:

    "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

    Sure looks like Black & White to ME.
  • Herb Ishmael 2012/07/12 22:25:08
    Herb
    to yes lol but we know the truth at the mayflower compact lol dont we and james town. you can quote this all you want but we know the truth before this treaty dont we.
  • Ishmael Herb 2012/07/12 22:39:59
    Ishmael
    I'm not concerned with either the Jamestown or Mayflower compacts since NEITHER has the force of federal law and prove nothing. In the old Massachusetts colony, Puritan CHRISTIANS burned witches at the stake. Does that mean the US government is ANTI-Witch or that ALL pagans hould be similarly burned at the stake?

    So the "truth" of those compacts is IRRELEVANT TO the discussion.
  • Herb Ishmael 2012/07/13 18:12:40 (edited)
    Herb
    no beacause we we started on a christian and god. like all those laws written from a bible mmm all those laws taken from the ten commandments.
  • Ishmael Herb 2012/07/13 19:15:18
    Ishmael
    What you seem to Forget is that the Pilgrims and most of the early colonists were refugees from Religious persecution by OTHER Christian Sects in their native lands. The founders were virtually ALL descendants of those refugees and still had family memories of those persecutions. Additionally, the Declaration and Constitution are based on the phliosophers of the French Liberal Enlightenment like Voltaire and Rousseau with elements of the Iroquois Confederacy thrown in, NEITHER of which have ANYTHING to Do with Christ, the Bible OR the 10 commandments. And merely Stating that is DOES over and over DOESN'T change those historical FACTS. So GET OVER IT.
  • Herb Ishmael 2012/07/13 19:24:05
    Herb
    better look at quotes by the founders lol

    Quotes From Our Founders in we are Christian nation
    George Washington – first President of the United States of America
    In his speech on May 12, 1779, George Washington claimed that what children needed to learn “above all” was the “religion of Jesus Christ,” and that to learn this would make them “greater and happier than they already are.”
    - George Washington, speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs, May 12, 1779.
    “It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible.”
    - George Washington
    “It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor.”
    - George Washington
    “Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable.”
    - George Washington, Thanksgiving Proclamation 1789
    “Oh, eternal and everlasting God, direct my thoughts, words and work. Wash away my sins in the immaculate blood of the Lamb and purge my heart by Thy Holy Spirit. Daily, frame me more and more in the likeness of Thy son, Jesus Christ, that living in Thy fear, and dying in Thy favor, I may in thy appointed time obtain the resurrection of the justified unto eternal life. Bless, O Lord...


























































































































































































    &


    better look at quotes by the founders lol

    Quotes From Our Founders in we are Christian nation
    George Washington – first President of the United States of America
    In his speech on May 12, 1779, George Washington claimed that what children needed to learn “above all” was the “religion of Jesus Christ,” and that to learn this would make them “greater and happier than they already are.”
    - George Washington, speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs, May 12, 1779.
    “It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible.”
    - George Washington
    “It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor.”
    - George Washington
    “Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable.”
    - George Washington, Thanksgiving Proclamation 1789
    “Oh, eternal and everlasting God, direct my thoughts, words and work. Wash away my sins in the immaculate blood of the Lamb and purge my heart by Thy Holy Spirit. Daily, frame me more and more in the likeness of Thy son, Jesus Christ, that living in Thy fear, and dying in Thy favor, I may in thy appointed time obtain the resurrection of the justified unto eternal life. Bless, O Lord, the whole race of mankind and let the world be filled with the knowledge of Thee and Thy son, Jesus Christ.”
    - George Washington, Prayer
    “True religion affords to government its surest support.”
    - George Washington
    Samuel Adams, Signer of the Declaration of Independence
    “I … [rely] upon the merits of Jesus Christ for a pardon of all my sins.” - Samuel Adams
    “We have this day [Fourth of July] restored the Sovereign to whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in Heaven, and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His Kingdom come.”
    - Samuel Adams
    “The name of the Lord (says the Scripture) is a strong tower; thither the righteous flee and are safe (Proverbs 18:10). Let us secure His favor and He will lead us through the journey of this life and at length receive us to a better.”
    - Samuel Adams
    United States Congressional Endorsement of the Bible and God
    Congress printed a Bible for America and said:
    “The United States in Congress assembled … recommend this edition of the Bible to the inhabitants of the United States … a neat edition of the Holy Scriptures for the use of schools.”
    - United States Congress 1782
    “Congress passed this resolution: “The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.”
    - United States Congress 1782
    “By Law the United States Congress adds to US coinage:”
    “In God We Trust”- United States Congress 1864
    John Adams, President of the United States of America, First Vice President, Signer of the Declaration of Independence, Signer of the Bill of Rights, and Signer of First Amendment
    “We recognize no sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus.”
    - John Adams and John Hancock
    “The Declaration of Independence laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity.” – John Adams
    “The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
    - John Adams
    “The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.”
    - John Adams
    “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
    - John Adams
    “I have examined all religions, and the result is that the Bible is the best book in the world.” – John Adams
    “The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity.”
    - John Adams
    “[The Fourth of July] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.” – John Adams
    “As the safety and prosperity of nations ultimately and essentially depend on the protection and the blessing of Almighty God, and the national acknowledgment of this truth is not only an indispensable duty which the people owe to Him.” - John Adams
    Abigail Adams, Wife of John Adams
    “The Scriptures tell us righteousness exalteth a Nation.”
    - Abigail Adams
    Patrick Henry, Early America Leader
    There is a book [the Bible] worth all the other books ever printed.- Patrick Henry
    It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great Nation was founded not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.- Patrick Henry
    John Jay, First Chief-Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court
    Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is their duty – as well as privilege and interest – of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.
    - John Jay
    The Bible is the best of all books, for it is the word of God and teaches us the way to be happy in this world and in the next. Continue therefore to read it and to regulate your life by its precepts.
    - John Jay
    John Hancock, Signer of the Declaration of Independence
    We recognize no sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus.
    - John Adams and John Hancock
    Benjamin Rush, Signer of the Declaration of Independence
    “The only foundation for . . . a republic is to be laid in Religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments.”
    - Benjamin Rush
    John Witherspoon, Continental Congress
    “He is the best friend to American liberty, who is most sincere and active in promoting true and undefiled religion, and who sets himself with the greatest firmness to bear down on profanity and immorality of every kind. Whoever is an avowed enemy of God, I scruple not to call him an enemy to his country.”
    - John Witherspoon
    John Dickinson, Signer Constitution of the USA, Continental Congress
    “The rights essential to happiness. . . . We claim them from a higher source — from the King of kings and Lord of all the earth.”
    - John Dickinson
    Benjamin Franklin
    “Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.”
    - Benjamin Franklin
    Thomas Jefferson, President
    God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever.
    - Thomas Jefferson, Jefferson Memorial
    The Christian religion is the best religion that has ever been given to man
    - Thomas Jefferson, Jefferson Memorial
    Daniel Webster, Early American Politician
    Education is useless without the Bible.
    - Daniel Webster
    Noah Webster, American Schoolmaster
    Education is useless without the Bible. The Bible was America’s basic text book in all fields. God’s Word, contained in the Bible, has furnished all necessary rules to direct our conduct.
    - Noah Webster
    In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed … No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people.
    - Noah Webster, Preface Noah Webster Dictionary, 1828
    Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story
    “I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society. One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law … There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying its foundations.”
    - Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story, Harvard Speech, 1829
    National Anthem of the United States of America, Francis Scott Key
    “And this be our motto, ‘In God is our trust’” - USA National Anthem, Third Verse
    Andrew Jackson, President of the United States of America
    “[The Bible] is the rock on which our Republic rests.”
    - Andrew Jackson
    Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States of America
    “In regards to this great Book [the Bible], I have but to say it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good the Savior gave to the world was communicated through this Book. But for it we could not know right from wrong. All things most desirable for man’s welfare, here and hereafter, are found portrayed in it.”
    - Abraham Lincoln
    “I am busily engaged in study of the Bible.” - Abraham Lincoln
    “I have been driven many times to my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had absolutely no other place to go.” – Abraham Lincoln
    “This nation under God”
    - Abraham Lincoln, Gettysberg Address and inscribed on Lincoln Memorial
    “And whereas it is the duty of nations as well as of men, to own their dependence upon the overruling power of God … and to recognize the sublime truth, announced in the Holy Scriptures and proven by all history, that those nations only are blessed whose God is the Lord.”
    - Abraham Lincoln
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”
    - Abraham Lincoln, Lincoln Memorial
    “Whereas, the Senate of the United States, devoutly recognizing the Supreme Authority and just Government of Almighty God, in all the affairs of men and of nations, has, by a resolution, requested the President to designate and set apart a day for National prayer and humiliation…”
    - Abraham Lincoln
    United States Supreme Court
    “This is a Christian nation”
    - United States Supreme Court Decision in Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States, 1892
    “Our laws and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of The Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise; and in this sense and to this extent our civilization and our institutions are emphatically Christian…This is a Christian nation”
    - United States Supreme Court Decision in Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States, 1892
    Washington Monument
    “Holiness to the Lord” (Exodus 28:26, 30:30, Isaiah 23:18, Zechariah 14:20)
    - Washington Monument
    “Search the Scriptures” (John 5:39)
    - Washington Monument
    “The memory of the just is blessed” (Proverbs 10:7)
    - Washington Monument
    “May Heaven to this Union continue its beneficence”
    – Washington Monument
    “In God We Trust”
    – Washington Monument
    “Praise be to God” (engraved on the monument’s capstone in Latin as “Laus Deo”)
    - Washington Monument
    James Madison, A Primary Author of the Constitution of the United States of America
    “We have staked the whole future of our new nation, not upon the power of government; far from it. We have staked the future of all our political constitutions upon the capacity of each of ourselves to govern ourselves according to the moral principles of the Ten Commandments.”
    - James Madison
    “Religion [is] the basis and foundation of Government”
    - James Madison
    “Cursed be all that learning that is contrary to the cross of Christ.”
    - James Madison
    Calvin Coolidge, President of the United States of America
    “The foundations of our society and our government rest so much on the teachings of the Bible that it would be difficult to support them if faith in these teachings would cease to be practically universal in our country.”
    - Calvin Coolidge


    Opinions vary on the topic, between those of religion and those without. They vary between the politically motivated - those who believe in morality based self-governance versus those who seek mans dominion over men through man-made, man-interpreted and man-enforced laws. They even vary among believers, some of whom believe in an unwritten separation of church and state versus others who believe only in that which was actually written into our Constitution by the founders.
    If you are looking for a debate, few topics will so readily attract opposition. Is it a question of faith or historical fact? It’s hard to get folks to even agree on that. Then you will have to somehow separate fact from fiction, as the reporting of these facts is often more hysterical than historical.
    Those who wish America a godless society have developed a plethora of arguments to support their agenda. But arguments are not facts… We watch as lawyers make arguments every day, seldom concerned with any facts or even any sense of real justice. But they can make an argument, sometimes a very successful argument. If their argument is not true, has justice been served? Is the argument right if it was made on a premise that was all wrong, even though the argument is effective?
    America is and has always been One Nation Under God. Though the founders used generic terms like Creator to describe that God, the God they meant was their God, of the Christian faith. Atheists and agnostics have long argued that many of the founders were deists, using Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Paine, Hamilton, and Madison as proof. However, in each of these cases, a study of their personal writings will debunk the myth.
    How did America become One Nation Under God? In dictionaries, the terms "deist," "agnostic," and "atheist" appear as synonyms. On this basis, the term deists would include those who believe there is no God, those who believe in a distant, impersonal creator of the universe and those who believe there is no way to know if God exists.
    A brief study of the founders own writings prove beyond any reasonable doubt that none of the notable founders fit this description. Thomas Paine talked about "the error of schools" to teach sciences without "reference to the Being who is author of them: for all the principles of science are of Divine origin." He stated that "the evil that has resulted from the error of the schools in teaching [science without God] has been that of generating in the pupils a species of atheism."
    Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania insisted that schools teach "the necessity of a public religion . . . and the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern." Franklin proposed a Biblical inscription for the Seal of the United States; he chose a New Testament verse for the motto of the Philadelphia Hospital; he was one of the chief proponents of a paid chaplain in Congress; and when Franklin helped found the college which bore his name in 1787, it was dedicated as "a nursery of religion and learning" built "on Christ, the Corner-Stone."
    On May 2, 1778, George Washington charged his soldiers at Valley Forge that "To the distinguished character of patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian." In a speech on May 12, 1779, he claimed that what children needed to learn "above all" was the "religion of Jesus Christ," and that to learn this would make them "greater and happier than they already are." On June 8, 1783, he reminded the nation that "without a humble imitation" of "the Divine Author of our blessed religion" we "can never hope to be a happy nation", as he resigned his post as Commander-in-Chief. Washington's own adopted daughter declared of Washington that you might as well question his patriotism as to question his Christianity.
    Hamilton began work with the Rev. James Bayard to form the Christian Constitutional Society to help spread over the world the two things which Hamilton said made America great: (1) Christianity and (2) a Constitution formed under Christianity. Only Hamilton's death two months later thwarted his plan of starting a missionary society to promote Christian government.
    Thomas Jefferson himself declared, "I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus." As President of the United States, Jefferson signed a treaty with the Kaskaskia tribe wherein he provided—at the government's expense—Christian missionaries.
    James Madison trained for ministry with the Rev. Dr. John Witherspoon, and Madison's writings are replete with declarations of his faith in God and in Christ. In his letter to Attorney General Bradford, Madison laments that public officials are not bold enough about their Christian faith in public and that public officials should be "fervent advocates in the cause of Christ." Madison did allude to a "wall of separation," but contemporary writers frequently omit Madison’s own definition of that "wall", which according to Madison, was only to prevent Congress from passing a national law to establish a national religion.
    There you have it… Do any of these men sound like deists to you? It is not hard to demonstrate that America was indeed born One Nation under God or that the God or Creator they were referring to was in fact, Jesus Christ. This alone should lay to rest any honest debate over how America became a nation built upon Judeo-Christian principles and values. We can go on and on, founder after founder if you want, but these are the men named by most who argue that the founders were at best, deists.
    Why was America formed as One Nation Under God? The answer is simple, yet of vital importance to every American, regardless of their religious beliefs. The answer begins with these two words, “self-governance”.
    Patrick Henry put it this way, "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ".
    John Adams said it this way, “We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775] and he later explained, "We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798
    The point is this - it is historically indisputable that America was born One Nation under God. It does not require faith, but instead common logic to understand why. Men without a moral compass are incapable of long-term self-governance. The founders knew it because they had seen it. Few modern Americans have experienced what life would be like in a godless society, void of morality, so they question it. Many Americans place their trust in man over God, so they pursue it.
    But there is no question what America was, is, should be or must be in order to retain its position of strength as the freest nation of self-governed individuals on earth. We will either be free as One Nation under God, or we will be a nation of fools unaware of our common heritage and on the road to ruin under men in search of power. One does not have to be a Christian to understand this. One must only understand man and his insatiable hunger for power.
    Those in search of that power must remove God from society in order to gain access to that power. Those who allow them, do so at their own peril. You are of course free to not like this simple truth. But this truth will never change. It is as it has always been…and shall always be.
    The highest glory of the American Revolution was this - that it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." - John Quincy Adams
    *****************************
    "The Bible is the cornerstone of liberty. A student's perusal of the sacred volume will make him a better citizen, a better father, a better husband." - Thomas Jefferson
    *****************************
    "The Bible is the rock on which our Republic rests." - Andrew Jackson
    *****************************
    "In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government, ought to be instructed." - Noah Webster
    *****************************
    (UC) "We have staked the future of American civilization upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." - James Madison
    *****************************
    (UC) "He who shall introduce into public affairs the principles of primitive Christianity will change the face of the world." - Benjamin Franklin
    *****************************
    (UC) "It can not be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not on religions but on the gospel of Jesus Christ." - Patrick Henry
    *****************************
    "The religion which has introduced civil liberty is the religion of Christ and His apostles...to this we owe our free constitutions of government." - Noah Webster
    *****************************
    "Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed the conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson
    *****************************
    "Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almight God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly implore His protection and favor." - George Washington
    *****************************
    "Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited.... What a utopia, what a paradise would this region be." - John Adams
    *****************************
    "Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams
    This statement is followed in the legislative history by references to God throughout American history meant to demonstrate that “[f]rom the time of our earliest history our peoples and our institutions have reflected the traditional concept that our Nation was founded on a fundamental belief in God.” The references included: The Mayflower Compact (1620), the Supreme Court’s opinion in Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States (1892), the aforementioned Declaration of Independence, and quotes from the founder of Pennsylvania William Penn and Virginia’s great legislator, George Mason. A closer look at all of these citations indicates that the God referenced in the Pledge is the Christian God.
    In the Mayflower Compact, the famous Pilgrims declared that they had undertaken their voyage “for the Glory of God, and Advancement of the Christian Faith.” After providing a litany of historical examples, Justice Brewer’s opinion in Church of the Holy Trinity unequivocally stated: “These, and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation.” 143 U. S. 457, 471 (1892). William Penn was a devout Quaker who attested in a letter to the King of Poland, among other places, that he believed ”there is one God and Father, one Lord Jesus Christ, and one Holy Spirit, and these three are one.” George Mason was the author of the Virginia Declaration of Rights (1776), the foremost precursor to the U.S. Constitution’s Bill of Rights. The last article of the Declaration of Rights proclaimed, in part, that “all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and . . . it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity, towards each other.”
    Strict separationists like Barry Lynn of Americans United for Separation of Church and State and atheists like those at Freedom from Religion Foundation often claim these are generic rote references in order to downplay the Christian influence on the founding of our country. They typically say that the Founders were deists at best and only employed religious language to dupe the masses in America to go along with their proposals. This claim is, by and large, flatly false. As Librarian of Congress James Hutson has observed, the Founders “were demonstrably, regular churchgoers, who knew their Bibles and incorporated scriptural texts into their working vocabularies.” Most of the Founders were thoroughgoing Christians, while a few were less religious. All were theists, believing that an all-powerful God had created life and blessed America. Even Common Sense author Thomas Paine, who later wrote diatribes against Christianity (for which he was castigated in America), stated in his infamous Age of Reason that, “I believe in one God, and no more; and I hope for happiness beyond this life.” Belief in the afterlife is not a deist doctrine.
    The separationists and atheists’ most common “proof” of the Founders’ deism is Thomas Jefferson. Their claim that Jefferson was a deist leads them to a syllogism which goes something like this:
    (1) Jefferson was a deist;
    (2) Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence; therefore,
    (3) The Declaration is a deistic document, referencing a generic God.
    This syllogism would be clever if it were not based on two false premises. First, Jefferson was not a deist. Navigating this issue requires proper definitions. Noah Webster’s 1828 American Dictionary of the English Language, the first standard dictionary of American English, defines a deist as “One who believes in the existence of a God, but denies revealed religion, but follows the light of nature and reason, as his only guides in doctrine and practice; a freethinker.” The key to this definition is the emphasis on following “the light of nature and reason” because deists held that God does not intervene in human affairs and that supernatural intervention was not necessary to life and understanding of the world. Jefferson did not believe this. In one of his most famous quotes, he discussed the repercussions for the nation regarding slavery and noted:
    And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever . . . .” (Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781).
    This quote clearly considers God’s intervention, and even judgment, in human affairs. In a letter to Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse on June 22, 1823, Jefferson wrote, “The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of man. 1. That there is one only God, and he all perfect. 2. That there is a future state of rewards and punishments. 3. That to love God with all thy heart and thy neighbor as thyself, is the sum of religion.” As I noted before, believing in a future state of rewards and punishments is contrary to deist doctrine.
    Other quotes could be culled from Jefferson’s writings, but the above statements should suffice to establish that—while Jefferson was not thoroughgoing Christian—he certainly was not a deist. This matters because it means that when Jefferson referenced God in the Declaration, even his version of God was not the distant “philosopher’s God” Hasson argued for before the 9th Circuit.
    Even so, the fact that Jefferson was the primary author of the Declaration matters very little when pondering the religious content in the document. To begin with, while it is true that Jefferson wrote the bulk of the Declaration of Independence, significant changes to the document were made by the Continental Congress. In fact, two of the four references to God in the Declaration were inserted by the Congress: “the Supreme Judge of the World” and the “firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence.” Both of these references describe a God who is active in the affairs of men.
    More important for this post than who gets credit for the authorship of the Declaration is its audience. Jefferson himself related in an 1825 letter to Henry Lee who the audience was when he said that the Declaration was “intended to be an expression of the American mind and to give to that expression the proper tone and spirit called for by that occasion.” The American people—to whom and for whom the Declaration spoke—were overwhelmingly Christian. A ten year study of 15,000 documents from the founding era (1760-1805) showed that the Founders quoted the Bible more frequently than any other sources. Thirty-four percent of their citations were directly to the Bible. (See Donald S. Lutz, The Origin of American Constitutionalism, pp. 141-143 (1988)). Other authors they frequently cited—such as John Locke, William Blackstone, and Baron Montesquieu—also cited the Bible frequently as an authority for their political ideas. This is relevant because it shows that the Founders not only knew their Bibles, they also understood that their audience knew and respected the Bible as an unparalleled authority. Both Jefferson and the Continental Congress at large referenced God in the Declaration first because they believed it to be important and second because they knew that their audience would feel it was necessary when discussing momentous topics like the rights of man and the independence of a new nation. These references were part of the “expression of the American mind” the Declaration represented.
    More specifically, the references to God in the Declaration do not indicate a distant deistic God who set the world in motion and does not care at all what has transpired since the beginning. It is not the language one uses to describe, as one writer has put it, “a blind metaphysical cause posited to explain why the universe began to exist.” Consider each reference in turn.
    When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and Nature’s God entitle them . . . .
    The “political bands” refers to the colonies’ relationship with Great Britain. The “Powers of the Earth” are the governments of countries around the world. This passage claims that God’s law “entitle[s]” the colonies to break away from the government of Great Britain and to form a new government. In making its central claim—independence from Britain—the Declaration appeals to God’s law as the highest authority for breaking away. There would be no need to appeal to God as an authority if they did not view Him as relevant to these momentous affairs. In their minds, the laws of society were derived from God’s law, and, by implication, if a law or a regime (i.e., Great Britain) contravened that divine source it lacked legitimate authority. The passage further assumes, as the second paragraph of the document spells out in more detail, that God is the author of government, which is an organizational principle of society that He has implanted in the laws of nature. Only a God who cares about the affairs of men would bother with providing for the organization of society.
    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness—That to secure these rights governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute a new government . . . .
    We already know from the first passage that Americans of the founding generation believed God had created the universe with set laws of nature and part of those laws involved the establishment of government. In this second passage we see that Americans also believed that God created mankind and endowed him with certain basic rights. Noah Webster said the word “endow” meant “to enrich or furnish with any gift, quality or faculty.” These rights are a gift of God. Gifts are special and are meant by the giver to be enjoyed to the fullest. Note that they are not just rights, but rather “unalienable rights”—rights that cannot be taken away. They cannot be taken precisely because they were given by God and not by “the Powers of the Earth,” i.e., government. In fact, God had given the people the right to change or abolish the government if it failed to respect these vital rights. Also notice that these are not merely opinions or beliefs; they are “self-evident truths.” They are self-evident because they were made apparent by God to man through the laws of nature so that no person or government can claim to be ignorant of the responsibility to respect the rights of others. The laws of nature are, as Paul says in Romans 1:20, written on the hearts of men “so that they are without excuse.” They are “truths” because they come directly from the Creator of everything—including truth—and they are written into the fabric of the laws of nature.
    So Americans believed that God had given them irrevocable rights, chief among them being the rights to live, to be free, and to pursue whatever they wished within the limits of the laws of nature and the laws of society. They also believed that government power is limited by these rights because they were endowed by God. Systematic violation of these rights is a moral wrong so grave that it justifies revolution. This is a vision of a God who loves and cares about His creation: He cares about the happiness of mankind, desiring people to live and to be free, and not to abide tyrannical government. It also presents a picture of an eternal God who defines for all-time what is true and right as well as what is immoral and wrong. Americans of that generation believed in the goodness of God and in absolute right and wrong. In the Declaration, they were holding the government of Great Britain accountable for its wrongdoing. This is language describing a God with a personal creation relationship to mankind. It is also a document that describes Britain’s wrongs with moral indignation. These characteristics are unthinkable for the believer in a “philosopher’s God.”
    We, therefore, the representatives of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, in GENERAL CONGRESS, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the World for the rectitude of our intentions . . . do, in the name, and by the authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be, Free and Independent States; . . . .
    This language essentially amounts to the representatives of the Continental Congress swearing before God that they had the right motives in declaring independence. They were not just seeking their own self-interest, but the interests of all Americans. For this appeal to carry any weight, it had to mean that Americans believed in the concept of an eternal judgment, “a future state of rewards and punishments,” as Jefferson put it. The title “the Supreme Judge of the World” illustrates that Americans believed in a God who is the impartial and ultimate judge of human actions. They did not just appeal to the record of grievances against the king, to common sense, or to reason for their authority to declare independence or their rightness in so doing. They appealed to God because of their belief in a higher law: an absolute moral standard that dictates consequences beyond the grave for thoughts and actions in this life. In the Declaration, Americans wanted it to be known that they were not just politically justified in claiming independence, but, more important to them, they were morally justified in doing so. To be truly moral requires not just upright conduct but also pure motives. Only God could search and know the mind and the heart to judge ”the rectitude of our intentions” because it is ”Almighty God [who] hath created the mind free,” as Jefferson stated in his Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom. Yet again, the God referenced here is a personal God who intimately knows the both the thoughts and actions of His creations, a God who cares enough about His creations to make their lives count now and in eternity. It is a far cry from the distant God of the philosophers.
    And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.
    If it was not obvious before, the Declaration makes it crystal clear in this concluding line that Americans of the revolutionary era believed in a God who entered into human affairs. Only a God who plays an active role in the affairs of men could offer protection for the American cause. As Webster said, “providence” is “the care and superintendence which God exercises over his creatures. He that acknowledges a creation and denies a providence, involves himself in a palpable contradiction; for the same power which caused a thing to exist is necessary to continue its existence. . . . By divine providence is often understood God himself.” Such is exactly what the Founding Fathers and Americans at large believed. They knew that God could intervene on their behalf and often attested to his doing so after the war concluded. For example, Benjamin Franklin remarked in his famous oration of June 28, 1787 before the Constitutional Convention that, ”All of us who were engaged in the struggle [for independence] must have observed frequent instances of a Superintending providence in our favor. To that kind providence we owe this happy opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of establishing our future national felicity.” George Washington noted in his First Inaugural Address on April 30, 1789 that, “No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the Invisible Hand which conducts the affairs of men more than the people of the United States. Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency.” This was not a weak faith, but rather a “firm reliance” on which those of the revolutionary generation were willing to bet everything they held dear: their wealth, their lives, and their good names. They steadfastly believed that God would protect this endeavor for independence because they were vindicating rights He had bestowed upon them and were acting with clear consciences on the world stage. Including this strong statement of faith in the Declaration’s conclusion emphasized God’s importance to their lives and to the American cause.
    All of this emphatically illustrates that the God of the Declaration of Independence was not the generic “philosopher’s God” that ACLU-types (and apparently Mr. Hasson) like to claim it is in an effort to diminish the role of religion in America’s founding. It must be admitted that the language used in the Declaration is not sufficient to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the God referred to is the Christian God because there is no mention of the Trinity, Jesus, or specific Biblical references. But given that the Declaration’s secondary audience was Enlightenment Europe, and especially France with whom America wanted to form a military alliance, this is hardly surprising. An Enlightenment rationalist could cursorily read the Declaration’s invocations of the Divine and not become too alarmed because the document was not evangelizing for a particular faith. On the other hand, a typical American who attended church regularly and held the Bible to be the sacred word of God could read the Declaration and catch its philosophical—even theological—nuances, and be proud of the statement it made. This dual voice of the Declaration is part of its genius and it does not diminish in any way its references to God. If the Enlightenment and reason were all that concerned the Founders or the American people at large they could have easily left out the specific references to God or used terms that did not carry the implications of those terms actually employed. They certainly did not need to add more references than Jefferson’s original draft, but they did. The most obvious and historically accurate reason they included these references is simply because they truly believed in an all-powerful, personal Creator whose favor they wished to implore in their grand statement of nationhood. To most Americans, this Creator was the God of Christianity, the religion James Madison called “the best & purest religion.” (Letter to Rev. Jasper Adams, September 1833).
    Why Mr. Hasson would deny this before a tribunal of federal judges is somewhat of a mystery. Indeed, the Becket Fund’s press release regarding the oral argument makes no mention of Mr. Hasson’s “philosopher’s God” argument, which is not surprising given that more than a few of the Fund’s donors would likely be displeased with such an argument. Giving Mr. Hasson the benefit of the doubt, he was probably making this “generic God argument” in an effort to make the Pledge comport with the Establishment Clause opinions of Justice O’Connor, who popularized the phrase “ceremonial deism” when discussing government references to God in our nation’s history. Justice O’Connor liked to say that certain phrases like “In God We Trust,” “God save the United States and this honorable court,” and “under God” in the Pledge had become so rote that the religious meaning had been driven out of them. They are now more customary than substantive, she reasoned, and so any endorsement of religion that could be attributed to them at one time has disappeared. According to Justice O’Connor, this is why these references to God survive constitutional scrutiny. Apparently the thought never occurred to Justice O’Connor that perhaps references to God by themselves do not “respect[] an establishment of religion” and therefore they do not violate the First Amendment.
    However, even if Mr. Hasson was attempting to reconcile “under God” with a Supreme Court justice’s opinions, I do not see how it is a victory to keep “under God” in the Pledge or “In God We Trust” as the national motto if the federal courts proclaim they are fine simply because they do not mean anything, i.e., they are devoid of religious content. Mr. Hasson certainly seemed to think “under God” meant something when he said in his press release that, “This is about a lot more than just how school kids start their day. It’s about where the next generation thinks its rights come from—the creator or the state.”
    Either these statements say something about this country, its history, and our beliefs or they are meaningless platitudes. If they are the former, then we ought to be honest and fight for them on that basis, being proud of our history, our blessings, and our God, because these have distinguished us from other nations. If they are the latter, then we should stop making a fuss about the Pledge and the motto and let them be what Newdow and other atheists want them to be: mere patriotic slogans. In traveling the Newdow path, however, let there be no doubt that we would be forsaking the beliefs and practices of the Founding generation.
    (more)
  • Ishmael Herb 2012/07/13 19:32:43
    Ishmael
    Quotes are meaningless when the law as stated before is quite clear and concise. the USmay have been a nation of Christians. That does NOT, in and of itself, make it a Christian Nation. that's merely a smokescreen for Dominionism.
  • Herb Ishmael 2012/07/13 19:35:43
    Herb
    lol like i said stated as a christian nation with the pilgrims see i give you founders quotes lol and now you want to claim law. so if the un wanted a treaty to take small arms from people and the second amendment would that be law to our constituition.
  • Ishmael Herb 2012/07/15 01:02:55
    Ishmael
    If that treaty was signed by the President and ratified by a 2/3ds vote of the Senate, then, under the same Supremacy clause of the Consitution, It WOULD be Federal Law.
  • Nimitz 2012/07/11 06:48:50
    i say
    Nimitz
    This is a two-pronged question; a demographic one and a political one. Demographically, the answer changes from generation to generation. Right now it's predominantly Christian.

    Or did you mean to ask whether the founders were Christian, and whether the nation's government was founded on Judeo-Christian principles. The answer is yes, but that's an oversimplification in the extreme. Most of the founders were Christian, but not all. 'Judeo-Christian principles' covers a lot of ground from the Code of Hammurabi to the Decalogue and Magna Carta. America's actual governmental structure was borrowed from the Iroquois Indians. The underlying principles were also borrowed.
  • gregaj7 2012/07/11 06:37:37
    i say
    gregaj7
    +1
    The people or the Government?
  • jubil8 BN-0 PON 2012/07/11 03:56:22
    i say
    jubil8 BN-0 PON
    The FF's weren't all Christians in the modern sense of the word. Many were, and many were had a strong faith and attended church regularly even though they didn't necessarily buy into biblical Christianity.
  • Herb jubil8 ... 2012/07/11 04:02:22
    Herb
    Main Entry:con£gre£ga£tion£al
    Pronunciation:-shn*l, -sh*-n*l
    Function:adjective
    Date:1639

    1 : of or relating to a congregation
    2 capitalized : of or relating to a body of Protestant churches deriving from the English Independents of the 17th century and affirming the essential importance and the autonomy of the local congregation
    3 : of or relating to church government placing final authority in the assembly of the local congregation
    –con£gre£ga£tion£al£ism \-shn*-*li-z*m, -sh*-n*l-*i-\ noun , often capitalized
    –con£gre£ga£tion£al£ist \-shn*-list, -sh*-n*l-ist\ noun or adjective , often capitalized
    Name of Signer State Religious Affiliation
    Charles Carroll Maryland Catholic

    Samuel Huntington Connecticut
    Congregationalist

    Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregat...

    William Williams Connecticut Congrega...

    Oliver Wolcott Connecticut Congregat...

    Lyman Hall Georgia Congregationalist

    Samuel Adams Massachusetts Congregat...

    John Hancock Massachusetts Congreg...

    Josiah Bartlett New Hampshire Congregationalist

    William Whipple New Hampshire Congregationalist

    William Ellery Rhode Island
    Congregationalist

    John Adams Massachusetts Congregat... Unitarian

    Robert Treat Paine Massachusetts Congregat... Unitarian

    George Walton Georgia Episcopalian

    John Penn North Carolina Episcopalian

    George Ross Pennsylvan...

















































































    Main Entry:con£gre£ga£tion£al
    Pronunciation:-shn*l, -sh*-n*l
    Function:adjective
    Date:1639

    1 : of or relating to a congregation
    2 capitalized : of or relating to a body of Protestant churches deriving from the English Independents of the 17th century and affirming the essential importance and the autonomy of the local congregation
    3 : of or relating to church government placing final authority in the assembly of the local congregation
    –con£gre£ga£tion£al£ism \-shn*-*li-z*m, -sh*-n*l-*i-\ noun , often capitalized
    –con£gre£ga£tion£al£ist \-shn*-list, -sh*-n*l-ist\ noun or adjective , often capitalized
    Name of Signer State Religious Affiliation
    Charles Carroll Maryland Catholic

    Samuel Huntington Connecticut
    Congregationalist

    Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregat...

    William Williams Connecticut Congrega...

    Oliver Wolcott Connecticut Congregat...

    Lyman Hall Georgia Congregationalist

    Samuel Adams Massachusetts Congregat...

    John Hancock Massachusetts Congreg...

    Josiah Bartlett New Hampshire Congregationalist

    William Whipple New Hampshire Congregationalist

    William Ellery Rhode Island
    Congregationalist

    John Adams Massachusetts Congregat... Unitarian

    Robert Treat Paine Massachusetts Congregat... Unitarian

    George Walton Georgia Episcopalian

    John Penn North Carolina Episcopalian

    George Ross Pennsylvania Episcopalian

    Thomas Heyward Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian

    Thomas Lynch Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian

    Arthur Middleton South Carolina Episcopalian

    Edward Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian

    Francis Lightfoot Lee Virginia Episcopalian

    Richard Henry Lee Virginia Episcopalian

    George Read Delaware Episcopalian

    Caesar Rodney Delaware Episcopalian

    Samuel Chase Maryland
    Episcopalian

    William Paca Maryland Episcopalian

    Thomas Stone Maryland Episcopalian

    Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts Episcopal...

    Francis Hopkinson New Jersey Episcopalian

    Francis Lewis New York Episcopalian

    Lewis Morris New York Episcopalian

    William Hooper North Carolina Episcopalian

    Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopal...

    John Morton Pennsylvania Episcopal...

    Stephen Hopkins Rhode Island Episcopalian

    Carter Braxton Virginia Episcopalian

    Benjamin Harrison Virginia Episcopalian

    Thomas Nelson Jr. Virginia Episcopalian

    George Wythe Virginia Episcopalian

    Thomas Jefferson Virginia Episcopalian (Deist)

    Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcop... (Deist)

    Button Gwinnett Georgia Episcopalian; Congregationalist

    James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopal... Presbyterian

    Joseph Hewes North Carolina Quaker, Episcopalian

    George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker, Episcopalian

    Thomas McKean Delaware Presbyterian

    Matthew Thornton New Hampshire Presbyterian

    Abraham Clark New Jersey Presbyterian

    John Hart New Jersey Presbyterian

    Richard Stockton New Jersey Presbyterian

    John Witherspoon New Jersey Presbyterian

    William Floyd New York Presbyterian

    Philip Livingston New York Presbyterian

    James Smith Pennsylvania Presbyterian

    George Taylor Pennsylvania Presbyter...

    Benjamin Rush
    Pennsylvania Presbyterian
    (more)
  • keeper 2012/07/11 03:06:16
    yes it is a christian nation
    keeper
    It is my belief that the original immigrants to what became America were fleeing religious persecution in Europe. The Founding Fathers who created our Constitution were all God fearing men; most of whom were Christians.
    But they were extremely cautious to ensure that we did not become a "Theocracy". Perhaps I should have clicked the other choice~~ LOL
  • Christine/Rest in peace Pet... 2012/07/11 02:55:44
    yes it is a christian nation
    Christine/Rest in peace Peter Br
    But our history, like our constitution are being rewritten
  • XQNP 2012/07/11 01:29:11 (edited)
    i say
    XQNP
    The founders of this nations were, while predominately Christian, accepting of other religions. As such, they formed a nation that was not formed on theology, and cannot be called a Christian nation.

    I was wrong to call them deists, though.
  • Herb XQNP 2012/07/11 02:54:42 (edited)
    Herb
    wrong only two know deist jefferson and ben franklin
    Debunking the "most of the Founders were deist" untruth. - December 4th, 2009, 07:39 AM
    _____________________________...
    I thought this might be useful in combatting the "most of the Founders were deist" untruth. If anyone has different info or further info, please let me know Those that have more than one religious affiliation are those that switched religions later in life. Names marked with "*" are parties to more than one document and are only counted once.
    Main Entry:con£gre£ga£tion£al
    Pronunciation:-shn*l, -sh*-n*l
    Function:adjective
    Date:1639

    1 : of or relating to a congregation
    2 capitalized : of or relating to a body of Protestant churches deriving from the English Independents of the 17th century and affirming the essential importance and the autonomy of the local congregation
    3 : of or relating to church government placing final authority in the assembly of the local congregation
    –con£gre£ga£tion£al£ism \-shn*-*li-z*m, -sh*-n*l-*i-\ noun , often capitalized
    –con£gre£ga£tion£al£ist \-shn*-list, -sh*-n*l-ist\ noun or adjective , often capitalized
    Name of Signer State Religious Affiliation
    Charles Carroll Maryland Catholic

    Samuel Huntington Connecticut
    Congregationalist

    Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregat...

    William...






































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































    &






    &



































































































    wrong only two know deist jefferson and ben franklin
    Debunking the "most of the Founders were deist" untruth. - December 4th, 2009, 07:39 AM
    _____________________________...
    I thought this might be useful in combatting the "most of the Founders were deist" untruth. If anyone has different info or further info, please let me know Those that have more than one religious affiliation are those that switched religions later in life. Names marked with "*" are parties to more than one document and are only counted once.
    Main Entry:con£gre£ga£tion£al
    Pronunciation:-shn*l, -sh*-n*l
    Function:adjective
    Date:1639

    1 : of or relating to a congregation
    2 capitalized : of or relating to a body of Protestant churches deriving from the English Independents of the 17th century and affirming the essential importance and the autonomy of the local congregation
    3 : of or relating to church government placing final authority in the assembly of the local congregation
    –con£gre£ga£tion£al£ism \-shn*-*li-z*m, -sh*-n*l-*i-\ noun , often capitalized
    –con£gre£ga£tion£al£ist \-shn*-list, -sh*-n*l-ist\ noun or adjective , often capitalized
    Name of Signer State Religious Affiliation
    Charles Carroll Maryland Catholic

    Samuel Huntington Connecticut
    Congregationalist

    Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregat...

    William Williams Connecticut Congrega...

    Oliver Wolcott Connecticut Congregat...

    Lyman Hall Georgia Congregationalist

    Samuel Adams Massachusetts Congregat...

    John Hancock Massachusetts Congreg...

    Josiah Bartlett New Hampshire Congregationalist

    William Whipple New Hampshire Congregationalist

    William Ellery Rhode Island
    Congregationalist

    John Adams Massachusetts Congregat... Unitarian

    Robert Treat Paine Massachusetts Congregat... Unitarian

    George Walton Georgia Episcopalian

    John Penn North Carolina Episcopalian

    George Ross Pennsylvania Episcopalian

    Thomas Heyward Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian

    Thomas Lynch Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian

    Arthur Middleton South Carolina Episcopalian

    Edward Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian

    Francis Lightfoot Lee Virginia Episcopalian

    Richard Henry Lee Virginia Episcopalian

    George Read Delaware Episcopalian

    Caesar Rodney Delaware Episcopalian

    Samuel Chase Maryland
    Episcopalian

    William Paca Maryland Episcopalian

    Thomas Stone Maryland Episcopalian

    Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts Episcopal...

    Francis Hopkinson New Jersey Episcopalian

    Francis Lewis New York Episcopalian

    Lewis Morris New York Episcopalian

    William Hooper North Carolina Episcopalian

    Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopal...

    John Morton Pennsylvania Episcopal...

    Stephen Hopkins Rhode Island Episcopalian

    Carter Braxton Virginia Episcopalian

    Benjamin Harrison Virginia Episcopalian

    Thomas Nelson Jr. Virginia Episcopalian

    George Wythe Virginia Episcopalian

    Thomas Jefferson Virginia Episcopalian (Deist)

    Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcop... (Deist)

    Button Gwinnett Georgia Episcopalian; Congregationalist

    James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopal... Presbyterian

    Joseph Hewes North Carolina Quaker, Episcopalian

    George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker, Episcopalian

    Thomas McKean Delaware Presbyterian

    Matthew Thornton New Hampshire Presbyterian

    Abraham Clark New Jersey Presbyterian

    John Hart New Jersey Presbyterian

    Richard Stockton New Jersey Presbyterian

    John Witherspoon New Jersey Presbyterian

    William Floyd New York Presbyterian

    Philip Livingston New York Presbyterian

    James Smith Pennsylvania Presbyterian

    George Taylor Pennsylvania Presbyter...

    Benjamin Rush
    Pennsylvania Presbyterian


    From the Mayflower Compact:

    1. John Alden Puritan
    2. Isaac Allerton Puritan
    3. John Allerton
    4. John Billington
    5. Richard Bitteridge
    6. William Bradford Puritan
    7. William Brewster Puritan
    8. Peter Brown
    9. John Carver Puritan
    10. James Chilton Puritan
    11. Richard Clark
    12. Francis Cooke
    13. John Craxton
    14. Edward Doty
    15. Francis Eaton
    16. Thomas English
    17. Moses Fletcher Puritan
    18. Edward Fuller
    19. Samuel Fuller Puritan
    20. Richard Gardiner
    21. John Goodman
    22. Stephen Hopkins Puritan
    23. John Howland Puritan
    24. Edward Liester
    25. Edmond Margesson
    26. Christopher Martin Puritan
    27. William Mullins Puritan
    28. Digery Priest Puritan
    29. John Rigdale
    30. Thomas Rogers
    31. George Soule Puritan
    32. Myles Standish
    33. Edward Tilly
    34. John Tilly
    35. Thomas Tinker
    36. John Turner
    37. Richard Warren
    38. William White
    39. Thomas Williams
    40. Edward Winslow Puritan
    41. Gilbert Winslow

    From the Articles of Confederation:

    1. Andrew Adams Congregationalist
    *2. Samual Adams (DI) Congregationalist
    3. Thomas Adams
    4. John Banister
    *5. Josiah Bartlett (DI) Congregationalist
    *6. Daniel Carroll (CC) Catholic
    7. William Clingan
    8. John Collins
    9. Francis Dana
    *10.John Dickinson (CC) Episcopalian/Quaker
    11. William Henry Drayton
    12. James Duane Episcopalian
    13. William Duer
    *14.William Ellery (DI) Congregationalist
    *15.Elbridge Gerry (DI,CC**) Episcopalian
    *16. John Hancock (DI) Congregationalist
    17. John Hanson
    18. Cornelius Harnett Deist/Episcopalian
    19. John Harvie
    *20. Thomas Heyward, Jr. (DI)
    21. Samuel Holten
    22. Titus Hosmer
    *23.Samuel Huntington (DI) Congregationalist
    24. Richard Hutson Presbyterian
    25. Edward Langworthy Episcopalian
    26. Henry Laurens Huguenot
    *27.Francis Lightfoot Lee (DI) (Christian)
    *28. Richard Henry Lee (DI)
    *29. Francis Lewis (DI)
    30. James Lovell
    31. Henry Marchant
    32. John Mathews
    *33.Thomas McKean (DI) Presbyterian
    *34. Gouveneur Morris (CC) Episcopalian
    *35. Robert Morris (CC) Episcopalian
    *36. John Penn (DI)
    37. Joseph Reed
    38. Daniel Roberdeau
    39. Nathaniel Scudder
    *40. Roger Sherman (DI, CC) Congregationalist
    41. Jonathan Bayard Smith
    42. Edward Telfair
    43. Nicholas VanDyke Episcopalian
    44. John Walton
    45. John Wentworth, Jr.
    46. John Williams
    *47. John Witherspoon (DI) Presbyterian
    *48. Oliver Wolcott (DI) Congregationalist

    From the Declaration of Independence

    1. John Adams Congregationalist/Unitarian
    *2. Samual Adams (AoC) Congregationalist
    *3. Josiah Bartlett (AoC) Congregationalist
    4. Carter Braxton
    5. Charles Carroll Catholic
    6. Samuel Chase Episcopalian
    7. Abraham Clark Presbyterian
    *8. George Clymer (CC) Episcopalian/Quaker
    *9. William Ellery (AoC) Congregationalist
    10. William Floyd Presbyterian
    *11.Benjamin Franklin (CC) Deist
    *12.Elbridge Gerry (AoC, CC**) Episcopalian
    13. Button Gwinnett Episcopalian
    14. Lyman Hall Congregationalist
    *15.John Hancock (AoC) Congregationalist
    16. Benjamin Harrison
    17. John Hart Presbyterian
    18. Joseph Hewes Episcopalian
    *19.Thomas Heyward, Jr. (AoC)
    20. William Hooper Episcopalian
    21. Stephen Hopkins
    22. Francis Hopkinson Episcopalian
    *23. Samuel Huntington (AoC) Congregationalist
    24. Thomas Jefferson Deist
    *25.Francis Lightfoot Lee (AoC) (Christian)
    *26.Richard Henry Lee (AoC)
    *27.Francis Lewis (AoC)
    28. Philip Livingston Presbyterian
    29. Thomas Lynch, Jr.
    *30.Thomas McKean (AoC) Presbyterian
    31. Arthur Middleton
    32. Lewis Morris
    *33. Robert Morris (AoC, CC) Episcopalian
    34. John Morton
    35. Thomas Nelson, Jr.
    36. William Paca Anglican
    37. Robert Treat Paine Congregationalist
    *38.John Penn (AoC)
    *39.George Read (CC) Episcopalian
    40. Caesar Rodney Episcopalian
    41. George Ross
    42. Benjamin Rush Presbyterian/Unitarian
    43. Edward Rutledge Church of England
    *44.Roger Sherman (AoC, CC) Congregationalist
    45. James Smith Presbyterian
    46. Richard Stockton Presbyterian
    47. Thomas Stone Episcopalian
    48. George Taylor Presbyterian
    49. Matthew Thornton Presbyterian
    50. George Walton Anglican
    51. William Whipple Congregationalist
    52. William Williams Congregationalist
    *53. James Wilson (CC) Deist/Episcopalian
    *54.John Witherspoon (AoC) Presbyterian
    *55.Oliver Wolcott (AoC) Congregationalist
    *56.George Wythe (CC**) Episcopalian

    From the Constitutional Convention

    1. Abraham Baldwin Congregationalist/Presbyterian
    2. Richard Bassett Methodist
    3. Gunning Bedford, Jr.Presbyterian
    4. John (James) Blair Episcopalian/Presbyterian
    5. William Blount Episcopalian/Presbyterian
    6. David Brearley Episcopalian
    7. Jacob Broom Lutheran
    8. Pierce Butler Episcopalian
    *9. Danie Carroll (AoC) Catholic
    *10.George Clymer (DI) Episcopalian/Quaker
    11. William R. Davie** Presbyterian
    12. Jonathon Dayton Episcopalian/Presbyterian
    *13.John Dickinson (AoC) Episcopalian/Quaker
    14. Oliver Ellsworth** Congregationalist
    15. William Few Methodist
    16. Thomas Fitzsimmons Catholic
    *17.Benjamin Franklin (DI) Deist
    18. Nicholas Gilman Congregationalist
    19. Nathaniel Gorham Congregationalist
    20. Alexander Hamilton Episcopalian
    21. William Houston** Episcopalian
    22. William C. Houston** Episcopalian
    23. Jared Ingersoll Presbyterian
    24. Daniel Jenifer Episcopalian
    25. William Samuel Johnson Anglican
    26. Rufus King Episcopalian
    27. John Langdon Congregationalist
    28. John Lansing, Jr.** Dutch Reformed
    29. William Livingston Presbyterian
    30. James Madison Episcopalian
    31. Alexander Martin** Episcopalian/Presbyterian
    32. Luther Martin** Episcopalian
    33. George Mason** Episcopalian
    34. James McClurg**
    35. James McHenry Presbyterian
    36. John F. Mercer** Episcopalian
    37. Thomas Mifflin Lutheran/Quaker
    *38.Gouveneur Morris (AoC) Episcopalian
    *39.Robert Morris (DI, AoC) Episcopalian
    40. William Patterson Presbyterian
    41. William L. Pierce** Episcopalian
    42. Charles Pinckney Episcopalian
    43. Charles Cotesworth Pinckney Episcopalian
    44. Edmund J. Randolph** Episcopalian
    *45. George Read (DI) Episcopalian
    46. John Rutledge Episcopalian
    *47. Roger Sherman (DI, AoC) Congregationalist
    48. Richard Dobbs Spaight Episcopalian
    49. Caleb Strong** Congregationalist
    50. George Washington Deist/Episcopalian
    51. Hugh Williamson Deist/Presbyterian
    *52.James Wilson (DI) Deist/Episcopalian
    53. Robert Yates** Dutch Reformed
    54. Elbridge Gerry Episcopalian
    55. George Wythe Episcopalian

    The Score:

    Christians: 102
    Catholics: 3
    Deists: 6
    Unknown: 62

    Of the 6 known deists, 4 changed their religion later in life. Those 4 being:
    Cornelius Harnett Deist/Episcopalian
    George Washington Deist/Episcopalian
    James Wilson Deist/Episcopalian
    Hugh Williamson Deist/Presbyterian

    Of the 102 Christians, 2 became Unitarian:
    John Adams Congregationalist/Unitarian
    Benjamin Rush Presbyterian/Unitarian

    So in the end, leaving all the deists as deists and adding in all the unknowns just to give them a fair shot, 68 is still not "most" of 173.

    Definition of Religions:
    Anglican: Of or characteristic of the Church of England or any of the churches related to it in origin and communion, such as the Protestant Episcopal Church.

    Catholic: Of or involving the Roman Catholic Church.

    Congregationalist: A type of church government in which each local congregation is self-governing.

    Church of England: The episcopal and liturgical national church of England, which has its see in Canterbury.

    Deist: The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation.

    Dutch Reformed: From trying to track this one down, I gather they are Christian although the denom has split many many times.

    Episcopalian: Of or advocating church government by bishops.

    Huguenot: A French Protestant of the 16th and 17th centuries. A French Calvinist of the 16th or 17th centuries

    Lutheran: Of or relating to Luther or his religious teachings and especially to the doctrine of justification by faith alone. Of or relating to the branch of the Protestant Church adhering to the views of Luther.

    Methodist: A member of an evangelical Protestant church founded on the principles of John and Charles Wesley in England in the early 18th century and characterized by active concern with social welfare and public morals.

    Presbyterian: Of or relating to ecclesiastical government by presbyters. Presbyter: A priest in various hierarchical churches. A teaching elder in the Presbyterian Church. A ruling elder in the Presbyterian Church.

    Puritan: A member of a group of English Protestants who in the 16th and 17th centuries advocated strict religious discipline along with simplification of the ceremonies and creeds of the Church of England.

    Quaker: A Christian denomination, founded in the mid-17th century in England, that rejects formal sacraments, a formal creed, a priesthood, and violence; the Quakers.

    Unitarian: An adherent of Unitarian Universalism. A monotheist who is not a Christian. A Christian who is not a Trinitarian.


    INFO:
    AoC: Articles of Confederation
    DI: Declaration of Independence
    CC: Constitutional Convention
    ** did not sign at CC
    The thinkers who formulated the Constitution and the Bill of Rights were deists, not theists, and were inspired by the ideals of the Enlightenment movement in England and Europe --Dave Miller

    Pure.. Unadulterated.. Poppycock. This flies completely in the face of serious scholarship on the subject by Dr. Miles Bradford (University of Dallas) in which he careflully examined the religious beliefs of 55 of the framers of the Constitutional Convention and found only 3 whose religious leanings were a bit unclear.

    Even more of those dratted Facts:

    "Over a ten-year period, political science professors at the University of Houston analyzed over 15,000 writings and speeches by the Founding Fathers to determine the primary source of ideas behind the Constitution. The three most quoted sources were the French philosopher Charles Montesquieu, English jurist William Blackstone and English philosopher John Locke. But the Bible was quoted more than any of these: four times more than Montesquieu, six times more than Locke and twelve times more than Blackstone. Ninety-four percent of the Founding Father's quotes were quoted, either directly or indirectly, from the Bible". ---Source: Lillback, Peter; Wall of Misconception, pgs. 30-31, (2007), Providence Forum Press.
    Thomas Paine is sometimes grouped with the Founding Fathers. Your daily newspaper might reinforce this view with editorials like this:
    Franklin, Washington, Jefferson, Paine and most of our other patriarchs were at best deists, believing in the unmoved mover of Aristotle, but not the God of the Old and New Testaments.[1]
    It would be difficult to name a single one of the Founding Fathers who approved of Paine's Age of Reason, his famous tract attacking religion in general and evangelical Christianity in particular. Even less-than-evangelicals like Benjamin Franklin and the "Unitarians" all denounced Paine's book.
    Before Paine published his Age of Reason, he sent a manuscript copy to Benjamin Franklin, seeking his thoughts. Notice Franklin's strong and succinct reply, and keep in mind that those on all sides of the religion question would concede Franklin to be one of the least religious Founders:
    I have read your manuscript with some attention. By the argument it contains against a particular Providence, though you allow a general Providence, you strike at the foundations of all religion. For without the belief of a Providence that takes cognizance of, guards, and guides, and may favor particular persons, there is no motive to worship a Deity, to fear his displeasure, or to pray for his protection. I will not enter into any discussion of your principles, though you seem to desire it. At present I shall only give you my opinion that . . . the consequence of printing this piece will be a great deal of odium drawn upon yourself, mischief to you, and no benefit to others. He that spits into the wind, spits in his own face. But were you to succeed, do you imagine any good would be done by it? . . . [T]hink how great a portion of mankind consists of weak and ignorant men and women and of inexperienced, inconsiderate youth of both sexes who have need of the motives of religion to restrain them from vice, to support their virtue . . . . I would advise you, therefore, not to attempt unchaining the tiger, but to burn this piece before it is seen by any other person . . . . If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be without it? I intend this letter itself as proof of my friendship.[2]
    Samuel Adams was not quite as cordial as Franklin:
    [W]hen I heard you had turned your mind to a defence of infidelity, I felt myself much astonished and more grieved that you had attempted a measure so injurious to the feelings and so repugnant to the true interest of so great a part of the citizens of the United States. The people of New England, if you will allow me to use a Scripture phrase, are fast returning to their first love. Will you excite among them the spirit of angry controversy at a time when they are hastening to amity and peace? I am told that some of our newspapers have announced your intention to publish an additional pamphlet upon the principles of your Age of Reason. Do you think your pen, or the pen of any other man, can unchristianize the mass of our citizens, or have you hopes of converting a few of them to assist you in so bad a cause?[3]
    John Adams certainly spoke harshly of such anti-Christian propaganda:
    The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue equity and humanity, let the Blackguard [scoundrel, rogue] Paine say what he will.[4]
    Far from opposing "the God of the Old and New Testaments," Adams defended the Bible as the basis for government in a Christian nation:
    Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God.... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be." [5]
    This was, in fact, the basis for the system of government in America, as Adams wrote to Thomas Jefferson on June 28, 1813:
    The general principles, on which the Fathers achieved independence, were the only Principles in which that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite....And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all these Sects were United: . . . Now I will avow, that I then believe, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of Liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System. [6]
    • Benjamin Rush, signer of the Declaration of Independence, wrote to his friend and signer of the Constitution John Dickenson that Paine's Age of Reason was "absurd and impious."[7]
    • Charles Carroll, a signer of the Declaration, described Paine's work as "blasphemous writings against the Christian religion."[8]
    • John Witherspoon, signer of the Declaration and mentor to many other Founders, said that Paine was "ignorant of human nature as well as an enemy to the Christian faith."[9]
    • John Quincy Adams declared that "Mr. Paine has departed altogether from the principles of the Revolution." [10]
    Elias Boudinot, President of Congress, even published the Age of Revelation -- a full-length rebuttal to Paine's work. In a letter to his daughter, Susan, Boudinot described his motivations for writing that rebuttal:
    I confess that I was much mortified to find the whole force of this vain man's genius and art pointed at the youth of America. . . . This awful consequence created some alarm in my mind lest at any future day, you, my beloved child, might take up this plausible address of infidelity; and for want of an answer at hand to his subtle insinuations might suffer even a doubt of the truth, as it is in Jesus, to penetrate your mind. . . . I therefore determined . . . to put my thoughts on the subject of this pamphlet on paper for your edification and information, when I shall be no more. I chose to confine myself to the leading and essential facts of the Gospel which are contradicted or attempted to be turned into ridicule by this writer. I have endeavored to detect his falsehoods and misrepresentations and to show his extreme ignorance of the Divine Scriptures which he makes the subject of his animadversions -- not knowing that "they are the power of God unto salvation, to every one that believeth [Romans 1:16]."[11]
    Patrick Henry, too, wrote a refutation of Paine's work which he described as "the puny efforts of Paine." However, after reading Bishop Richard Watson's Apology for the Bible written against Paine, Henry deemed that work sufficient and decided not to publish his reply.[12]
    When William Paterson, signer of the Constitution and a Justice on the U.S. Supreme Court, learned that some Americans seemed to agree with Paine's work, he thundered:
    Infatuated Americans, why renounce your country, your religion, and your God? Oh shame, where is thy blush? Is this the way to continue independent, and to render the 4th of July immortal in memory and song?[13]
    Zephaniah Swift, author of America's first law book, warned:
    [W]e cannot sufficiently reprobate the beliefs of Thomas Paine in his attack on Christianity by publishing his Age of Reason . . . . He has the impudence and effrontery [shameless boldness] to address to the citizens of the United States of America a paltry performance which is intended to shake their faith in the religion of their fathers . . . . No language can describe the wickedness of the man who will attempt to subvert a religion which is a source of comfort and consolation to its votaries [devout worshipers] merely for the purpose of eradicating all sentiments of religion.[14]
    John Jay, co-author of the Federalist Papers and the original Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, was comforted by the fact that Christianity would prevail despite Paine's attack:
    I have long been of the opinion that the evidence of the truth of Christianity requires only to be carefully examined to produce conviction in candid minds, and I think they who undertake that task will derived advantages. . . . As to The Age of Reason, it never appeared to me to have been written from a disinterested love of truth or of mankind.[15]
    Many other similar writings could be cited, but these are sufficient to show that Paine's views were strongly rejected even by the least religious Founders. In fact, Paine's views caused such vehement public opposition that -- as Franklin predicted -- he spent his last years in New York as "an outcast" in "social ostracism" and was buried in a farm field because no American cemetery would accept his remains.[16]
    Yet, even Thomas Paine cannot be called an atheist, for in the same work wherein he so strongly attacked Christianity, Paine also declared:
    I believe in one God . . . and I hope for happiness beyond this life.[17]
    The Founding Fathers simply were not atheists -- not even one of them. As Franklin had earlier explained to his European hosts while in France:
    [B]ad examples to youth are more rare in America, which must be comfortable consideration to parents. To this may be truly added, that serious religion, under its various denominations, is not only tolerated, but respected and practiced. Atheism is unknown there; infidelity rare and secret; so that persons may live to a great age in that country, without having their piety shocked by meeting with either an atheist or an infidel.[18]
    While members of the Supreme Court have held that government cannot show "respect" for religion, Franklin says the opposite.
    [See David Barton, Original Intent, 130-34 for words in blue.]
    _____________________________...
    Deism and Infidelity
    As has been shown elsewhere, the U.S. Supreme Court has declared that references to God (which permeate our history and government) do not refer to the God of the Bible. Our national motto ("In God We Trust"), the Pledge of Allegiance ("One nation, under God"), and oaths in our courtrooms ("So help me, God") have been declared by the Supreme Court to have "no theological meaning." They are examples of "ceremonial deism."
    In a syndicated article, Steven Morris claimed,
    The early presidents and patriots were generally deists or Unitarians, believing in some form of impersonal Providence but rejecting the divinity of Jesus and the relevance of the Bible.[19]
    But the Founders were not "deists." Franklin called himself a "deist," but used the word in a sense quite different from the way most Americans think of that term today.
    Russell Kirk describes deism in the following terms:
    Throughout Europe and even America, the disillusionment that followed upon the end of the Wars of Religion had brought some toleration with it—but also apathy or indifference of spirit. Scientific and metaphysical speculation, late in the seventeenth century and throughout the eighteenth, had weakened Christian belief among many of the educated. Christian churches often seemed dull and smug, and many clergymen were content to collect their stipends but not eager to perform their duties. In much of Europe, a confused popular resentment against established churches began to stir; quite as serious was the contempt for Christianity that grew among not a few members of the upper classes. Anti-Christian feeling was one of the forces that would explode in Paris in 1789, and thereafter would sweep across other European nations. Men must believe in something more than themselves; and if the Christian churches seemed whited sepulchres, men would seek another form of faith. So it was that during the first half of the eighteenth century, in England and America, the mode of thought called Deism made inroads upon the Christianity of the Apostles' Creed.
    Deism was neither a Christian schism nor a systematic philosophy, but rather a way of looking at the human condition; the men called Deists differed among themselves on many points. (Thomas Paine often was called an atheist, but is more accurately described as a rather radical Deist.) Deism was an outgrowth of seventeenth- and eighteenth-century scientific speculation. The Deists professed belief in a single Supreme Being, but rejected a large part of Christian doctrine. Follow Nature, said the Deists (as the Stoics had said before them), not Revelation: all things must be tested by rational private judgment. The Deists relied especially upon mathematical approaches to reality, influenced in this by the thought of Sir Isaac Newton. For the Christian, the object of life was to know God and enjoy Him forever; for the Deist, the object of life was private happiness. For the Deists, the Supreme Being indeed was the creator of the universe, but He did not interfere with the functioning of His creation. The Deists denied that Old and New Testaments were divinely inspired; they doubted the reality of miracles; they held that Jesus of Nazareth was not the Redeemer, but a grand moral teacher merely. Thoroughly rationalistic, the Deists discarded all elements of mystery in religion, trying to reduce Christian teaching to a few simple truths. They, and the Unitarians who arose about the same time, declared that man was good by nature, not corrupt; they hoped to liberate mankind from superstition and fear.
    Kirk, The Roots of American Order, pp.337-38
    Ben Franklin, by this account, was no deist. He believed that God directly -- if not "miraculously" -- intervened in the "natural" functioning of the universe. See his remarks at the Constitutional Convention.
    What is important to see is the negative connotation in the word "deist." Noah Webster's 1828 American Dictionary of the English Language shows how "deism" came to be equated with "infidelity":
    DE'ISM, n. [Fr. deisme; Sp. deismo; It. id; from L. deus, God.]
    The doctrine or creed of a deist; the belief or system of religious opinions of those who acknowledge the existence of one God, but deny revelation:
    or deism is the belief in natural religion only, or those truths, in doctrine and practice, which man is to discover by the light of reason, independent and exclusive of any revelation from God.
    Hence deism implies infidelity or a disbelief in the divine origin of the scriptures.
    Webster then quotes Patrick Henry, from Wirt's Sketches, to the effect that "deism . . . is but another name for vice and depravity. . . . " A "deist," thus, is
    one who believes in the existence of a God, but denies revealed religion:
    one who professes no form of religion, but follows the light of nature and reason, as his only guides in doctrine and practice;
    a freethinker.
    Freethinkers and infidels were under severe legal restrictions in the years immediately following the ratification of the Constitution. There is little evidence that the Founding Fathers intended to minimize those restrictions. Black's Law Dictionary defines an "infidel" as
    One who does not believe in the existence of a God who will reward or punish in this world or that which is to come. Hale v. Everett, 53 N.H. 54, 16 Am.Rep. 82. One who professes no religion that can bind his conscience to speak the truth. 1 Greenl. Ev. § 368. One who does not recognize the inspiration or obligation of the Holy Scriptures, or generally recognized features of the Christian religion. Gibson v. Ins. Co., 37 N.Y. 580.
    It is clear that the legal restriction most in view in this definition is the qualification to take a solemn oath. An "infidel" was deemed unable to take an oath. An oath witnessed to the existence of a God Who would judge falsehood. Every oath was thus a "test oath."
    Thomas Jefferson, by this definition, was not an "infidel."
    The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of man:
    1. That there is one only God, and He all perfect.
    2. That there is a future state of rewards and punishments.
    3. That to love God with all thy heart, and thy neighbor as thyself, is the sum of religion.…
    Had the doctrines of Jesus been preached always as pure as they came from his lips, the whole civilized world would now have been Christian.
    —To Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse. (1822) The Writings of Thomas Jefferson. Edited by Albert Ellery Bergh. 20 vols. Washington: The Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1907. (Memorial Edition) vol. 15, p. 383.
    I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus—very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselves Christians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its Author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great Reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were He to return on earth, would not recognize one feature.
    —To Charles Thomson. Bergh 14:385. (1816.)
    In 1844, a case came before the U.S. Supreme Court [Vidal v. Girard's Executors, 43 U.S. 126 (1844)] in which a Frenchman, suspected of being a "deist" or "infidel," wanted to build a school quite different from most -- one in which the teachers would not be clergymen. His will left millions of dollars to the City of Philadelphia to build a school in which "no ecclesiastic, missionary, or minister of any sect whatsoever" should be allowed in. He stipulated that "only the purest principles of morality" should be taught, by which he obviously meant Secular Humanism/No Bible.
    (I say this is "obvious" because of the opprobrium with which the atheistic French Revolution was viewed in America. Both the City of Philadelphia and Girard's heirs suspected that by this provision he wanted to exclude the Bible from the school and to prohibit Christianity from being taught.)
    Both the City of Philadelphia and Girard's heirs conceded that an atheistic school such as this would be repugnant to the Christian law of this country. This is one of the arguments raised before the Supreme Court by Daniel Webster:
    [T]he plan of education proposed is anti-Christian and therefore repugnant to the law.
    His reasoning before the US Supreme Court was based on Biblical authority:
    Both in the Old and New Testaments its importance [viz., the religious instruction of youth] is recognized. In the Old it is said, "Thou shalt diligently teach them to thy children," and in the New, "Suffer little children to come unto me and forbid them not . . . ." No fault can be found with Girard for wishing a marble college to bear his name for ever, but it is not valuable unless it has a fragrance of Christianity about it.
    One has to exercise a little historiographic wisdom here. What kind of world was it back then the a man of Daniel Webster's stature (called "the Defender of the Constitution") could rise before the US Supreme Court and cite Bible verses as the basis for setting aside probably the largest devise of its kind in the history of the New World?
    Webster argued that the single anti-Christian provision of Girard's will should force the entire will to be set aside. But courts will attempt to salvage a will by removing any clause offensive to public policy. This is what the City of Philadelphia argued. They granted that the atheistic school clause was anti-Christian and therefore unlawful, but they argued that Webster should have
    . . . joined with us in asking the State to cut off the obnoxious clause.
    The City agreed with Webster that this was a Christian nation and that the Bible must be taught in schools. Giving a tortured interpretation of the Frenchman's will, the City argued:
    The purest principles of morality are to be taught. Where are they found? Whoever searches for them must go to the source from which a Christian man derives his faith -- the Bible. . . . [T]here is an obligation to teach what the Bible alone can teach, viz., a pure system of morality.
    So here we have two parties before the U.S. Supreme Court arguing that a clause in a will requiring a Bible-free school cannot be enforced in America because this is a Christian nation. If the ACLU's version of history were true, the Supreme Court would have laughed these lawyers out onto the street. Nobody after Everson can make arguments like this before the Court. (But then, the case which took prayer out of schools in 1962 did not cite a single judicial precedent. The doctrine of "separation of church and state" required a wholesale revision of American history. The Holy Trinity case, of course, cited this 1844 case to prove that America was a "Christian nation.")
    So what exactly did the Girard Court hold? How did it react to these Bible-thumping lawyers before it?
    After both sides argued that the anti-Christian provision of the will was repugnant to law, the unanimous opinion of the US Supreme Court was delivered by Justice Joseph Story, whose Commentaries on the Constitution were regarded as the greatest statement of U.S. Constitutional Law. The Court ruled that Christianity could NOT be excluded from the school.
    Christianity . . . is not to be maliciously and openly reviled and blasphemed against to the annoyance of believers or the injury of the public. . . . It is unnecessary for us, however, to consider . . . the establishment of a school or college for the propagation of . . . Deism or any other form of infidelity. Such a case is not to be presumed to exist in a Christian country.
    Note that "deism" is equated with "infidelity." The Supreme Court said they were not to be tolerated in a Christian nation. Deism is not approved the way modern writers say the Founders did.
    John Adams denounced "infidelity":
    The idea of infidelity cannot be treated with too much resentment or too much horror. The man who can think of it with patience is a traitor in his heart and ought to be execrated as one who adds the deepest hypocrisy to the blackest treason. [20]
    The Founders believed that a school which would teach Deism is against public policy. That's what the United States Supreme Court ruled in 1844. That holding cannot be made after the Everson case. Not because the Constitution requires it, but because the Secular Humanist Court now requires that atheists are not to be annoyed by prayers, Bible readings, or manger scenes in public.
    It might be instructive to recall the words of Scripture:
    the wealth of the sinner is stored up for the righteous. Proverbs 13:22
    The Vidal Court very wisely does not allow the will to fail, but takes millions of dollars from an apparent unbeliever and uses them to build a school which will teach Christianity. The Court looks at Girard's will, which expressly states that no clergy can even enter the school -- even as visitors -- and says, that's OK:
    Why may not laymen instruct in the general principles of Christianity as well as ecclesiastics [that's "clergy" for you public school graduates.]
    And we cannot overlook the blessings which such [lay]men by their conduct, as well as their instructions, may, nay must impart to their youthful pupils. Why may not the Bible, and especially the New Testament, without note or comment, be read and taught as a divine revelation in the college -- its general precepts expounded, its evidences explained and its glorious principles of morality inculcated? . . . Where can the purest principles of morality be learned so clearly or so perfectly as from the New Testament?
    You cannot even IMAGINE the current Supreme Court saying anything like this. That's why the Court has had to ignore all legal precedent in formulating its doctrine of the "separation of church and state." It's not in the Constitution, nor its legislative history, nor in Court cases throughout the 19th century.
    This case blows the myth of "separation" to pieces, but most Americans have had their historical memories flushed down the Orwellian Memory Hole and can't even grasp what's going on in this case. Nobody in this case believed in a "separation of church and state" as now understood, and nobody believed that the Constitution required the Bible to be removed from schools.
    I anticipate nothing but suffering to the human race while the present systems of paganism, deism and atheism prevail in the world.[21]
    Benjamin Rush, Signer of the Declaration of Independence
    The attempt by the rulers of a nation [France] to destroy all religious opinion and to pervert a whole people to atheism is a phenomenon of profligacy [an act of depravity] . . . . [T]o establish atheism on the ruins of Christianity [is] to deprive mankind of its best consolations and most animating hopes and to make it a gloomy desert of the universe.[22]
    Alexander Hamilton
    [T]he rising greatness of our country . . . is greatly tarnished by the general prevalence of deism which, with me, is but another name for vice and depravity. . . . I hear it is said by the deists that I am one of their number; and indeed that some good people think I am no Christian. This thought gives me much more pain than the appellation of Tory, because I think religion of infinitely higher importance than politics . . . . [B]eing a Christian . . . is a character which I prize far above all this world has or can boast.[23]
    Patrick Henry
    [I] have a thorough contempt for all men . . . who appear to be the irreclaimable enemies of religion.[24]
    Samuel Adams
    [T]he most important of all lessons [from the Scripture] is the denunciation of ruin to every State that rejects the precepts of religion.[25]
    Gouverneur Morris, Penman and Signer of the Constitution
    [S]hun, as a contagious pestilence . . . those especially whom you perceive to be infected with the principles of infidelity or [who are] enemies to the power of religion.[26] Whoever is an avowed enemy of God, I scruple not to call him an enemy to his country.[27]
    John Witherspoon, Signer of the Declaration
    John Adams also recognized that the Bible cannot be removed from schools, because freedom cannot exist in chaos. We cannot separate religion and government:
    Religion and virtue are the only foundations . . . of republicanism and of all free governments.[28]
    _____________________________...
    Unitarianism
    But wasn't Adams a Unitarian? Those who believe in the "separation of church and state" would certainly like us to believe that he was, and that Unitarians were flagrant TomPaine-type atheists who flouted their anti-religious views and led an entire nation in an anti-Christian revolt. This is far from accurate.
    Unitarianism appeared in America as early as 1785; its doctrines were stated by William Ellery Channing in 1819, with the American Unitarian Association being formed in 1825. The Theological Dictionary of 1823 described Unitarians thusly:
    In common with other Christians, they confess that He [Jesus] is the Christ, the Son of the Living God; and in one word, they believe all that the writers of the New Testament, particularly the four Evangelists, have stated concerning him.
    In fact, the early Unitarians published a pamphlet entitled An Answer to the Question, "Why Do You Attend a Unitarian Church?" Notice some of the eighteen reasons:
    • Because the Unitarians reject all human creeds and articles of faith, and strictly adhere to the great Protestant principle, "the Bible -- the Bible only;" admitting no standard of Christian truth, nor any rule of Christian practice, but the words of the Lord Jesus and his Apostles. . . .
    • Because at the Unitarian Church I hear Jesus of Nazareth who was crucified, preached as the Christ, the son of the living God. . . .
    • Because Unitarians teach the doctrine of "the true grace of God." -- His unmerited, unpurchased favor to mankind, -- that salvation and eternal life are his free gifts through Jesus Christ; which is clearly the doctrine of Scripture . . . .
    • Because there the crucified Jesus is exalted, as having attained his high dignity and glory, and His appointment to be the Saviour and Judge of the world. . . .
    • Because there the necessity of personal righteousness is insisted on, and the spirit of Christ and conformity to His example, made essential to genuine Christianity.
    As a further indication of the early Unitarian's reliance on the Bible, observers from that era noted "that several of the ablest defenders of Christianity against the attacks of infidels have been Unitarians." [29]
    However, in 1838, Unitarianism took a radical turn when Ralph Waldo Emerson began slowly reshaping Channing's Christian teachings
    . . . into a Transcendentalist version of the ethical theism of Plato, the Stoics, and Kant, coordinated with the nascent evolutionist science of the day and the newly explored mysticism of the ancient East. This new religious philosophy, as construed and applied by the Boston preacher Theodore Parker and other disciples of Emerson, included the other great ethnic faiths with Christianity in a universal religion of Humanity and through its intellectual hospitality operated to open Unitarian fellowship to evolutionists, monists, pragmatists and humanists. [30]
    The 1844 source previously quoted indicates that Emerson's heresies took time to infect Unitarianism completely. But the Unitarianism of Adams' day was not the Unitarianism of our day.
    Professing little reverence for human creeds, having no common standard but the Bible . . . . They believe that He [God] earnestly desires their repentance and holiness; that His infinite, overflowing love led Him miraculously to raise up and send Jesus to be their spiritual deliverer, to purify their souls from sin, to restore them to communion with Himself, and fit them for pardon and everlasting life in His presence; in a word, to reconcile man to God.
    Because today's Unitarians are both non- and anti-Christian, a failure to account for the historical changes in this organization have caused many modern historians to conclude wrongly that the Founders associated with early Unitarianism could not have been Christians. In fact, they were much closer to the Religious Right in their social morality than to the ACLU.
    I grant that all of the Founders were far too influenced by Enlightenment Humanism. But then, I think Pat Robertson is way too "moderate." The point is that none of them would support the present definition of "separation of church and state."
    Barton's discussion of Unitarianism is found in Original Intent at pp. 304-306.
    _____________________________...
    NOTES
    It would be difficult to name a single Founding Father who did not believe in a God who judges men and nations in this life or in the life to come. Thus, not a single Founding Father could be called a deist or any other form of infidel. Back to Black's Law Dictionary
    _____________________________...

    Footnote 1. Michael McDonald, "Founding Fathers Weren't Devout," The Charlotte Observer, Friday, January 15, 1993, 7A.
    Footnote 2. Benjamin Franklin, The Works of Benjamin Franklin, Jared Sparks, Ed., (Boston: Tappan, Whittemore and Mason, 1840) X:281-282, to Thomas Paine in 1790. Read more here.
    Footnote 3. William V. Wells, The Life and Public Services of Samuel Adams (Boston: Little, Brown and Co., 1865) III:372-73, to Thomas Paine on Nov. 30, 1802.
    Footnote 4. John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, Ed., (Boston: Little, Brown and Co., 1856) III:421, dairy entry for July 26, 1796.
    Footnote 5. John Adams (1735-1826), (L.H. Butterfield, ed., Diary and Autobiography of John Adams (Cambridge, MA: Belknap Press of Harvard Press, 1961), Vol. III, p. 9. [February 22, 1756]
    Footnote 6. Lester J. Capon, ed., The Adams-Jefferson Letters 2 vols. (Chapel Hill, NC: University of North Carolina Press, 1959), 2:339-40
    Footnote 7. Benjamin Rush, Letters of Benjamin Rush, L.H. Butterfield, ed., (Princeton University Press, 1951) II:770, to John Dickenson on Feb 16, 1796.
    Footnote 8. Joseph Gurn, Charles Carrol of Carrolton (NY: P.J. Kennedy & Sons, 1932, p. 203.
    Footnote 9. John Witherspoon, The Works of the Reverend John Witherspoon (Phila: Wm W. Woodward, 1802) III:24n2, from "The Dominion of Providence over the Passions of Men," delivered at Princeton on May 17, 1776.
    Footnote 10. John Quincy Adams, An Answer to Pain's [sic] "Rights of Man" (London: John Stockdale, 1793) p. 13.
    Footnote 11. Elias Boudinot, The Age of Revelation (Phila: Asbury Dickins, 1801) pp. xii-xiv, from the prefatory remarks to his daughter, Mrs. Susan V. Bradford.
    Footnote 12. George Morgan, Patrick Henry (Phila: J.B. Lippincott Company, 1929) p. 366n. See also, Bishop William Meade, Old Churches, Ministers, and Families of Virginia (Phila: J.B. Lippincott Company, 1857) II:12.
    Footnote 13. John E. O'Connor, William Paterson: Lawyer and Statesman (New Bruswick: Rutgers University Press, 1979) p. 244, from a Fourth of July Oration in 1798.
    Footnote 14. Zephaniah Swift, A System of Laws of the State of Connecticut (Windham: John Byrne, 1796) II:323-24.
    Footnote 15. William Jay, The Life of John Jay (NY: J. & J. Harper, 1833) p. 80 from his "Charge to the Grand Jury of Ulster County" on Sept. 9, 1777.
    Footnote 16. Dictionary of American Biography, s.v. "Thomas Paine."
    Footnote 17. Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason (Phila: The Booksellers, 1794) p. 8.
    Footnote 18. Benjamin Franklin, Two Tracts: Information to Those Who Would Remove to America and Remarks Concerning the Savages of North America (London: John Stockdale, 1784), p.24.
    Footnote 19. "America's Unchristian Beginnings," The Los Angeles Times August 3, 1995, B-9.
    Footnote 20. The Papers of John Adams, Robert J. Taylor, ed., (Cambridge: Belknap Press [Harvard University], 1977-89) vol. VI p 348 to James Warren on Aug. 4, 1778
    Footnote 21. Benjamin Rush, Letters of Benjamin Rush, L.H. Butterfield, ed., (Princeton University Press, 1951) II:799, to Noah Webster on July 20, 1798.
    Footnote 22. The Papers of Alexander Hamilton, Harold C. Syrett, ed., (NY: Columbia University Press, 1979) XXV:605-10, to James Bayard on April 16-21, 1802.
    Footnote 23. Arnold, A.G., The Life of Patrick Henry of Virginia, (Auburn and Buffalo: Miller, Orton and Mulligan, 1854) pp. 249-50.
    Footnote 24. Samuel Adams, The Writings of Samuel Adams, Harry Alonzo Cushing, ed., (NY: G. P. Putnam's Sons, 1906) II:381, to William Checkley on Dec. 14, 1772.
    Footnote 25. Collections of the New York Historical Society for the Year 1821 (NY: E.Bliss and E. White, 1821) p 34, from "An Inaugural Discourse Delivered Before the New York Historical Society by the Honorable Gouverneur Morris on Sept. 4, 1816."
    Footnote 26. Witherspoon, Works, VI:13, from "An Address to the Senior Class at Princeton College," Sept. 23, 1775.
    Footnote 27. Ibid., III:42, from "The Dominion of Providence over the Passions of Men," delivered at Princeton on May 17, 1776.
    Footnote 28. Adams, Works, IX:636, to Benjamin Rush, Aug. 28, 1811.
    Footnote 29. Rupp, Daniel, An Original History of the Religious Denominations at Present Existing in the United States, (Phila: J.Y. Humphreys, 1844) p. 711.
    Footnote 30. James Truslow Adams, Dictionary of American History (NY: Chas. Scribner's Sons, 1940) p. 345.
    Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
    Button Gwinnett
    Lyman Hall
    George Walton William Hooper
    Joseph Hewes
    John Penn
    Edward Rutledge
    Thomas Heyward, Jr.
    Thomas Lynch, Jr.
    Arthur Middleton John Hancock
    Samuel Chase
    William Paca
    Thomas Stone
    Charles Carroll
    of Carrollton
    George Wythe
    Richard Henry Lee
    Thomas Jefferson
    Benjamin Harrison
    Thomas Nelson, Jr.
    Francis Lightfoot Lee
    Carter Braxton Robert Morris
    Benjamin Rush
    Benjamin Franklin
    John Morton
    George Clymer
    James Smith
    George Taylor
    James Wilson
    George Ross
    Caesar Rodney
    George Read
    Thomas McKean William Floyd
    Philip Livingston
    Francis Lewis
    Lewis Morris
    Richard Stockton
    John Witherspoon
    Francis Hopkinson
    John Hart
    Abraham Clark Josiah Bartlett
    William Whipple
    Samuel Adams
    John Adams
    Robert Treat Paine
    Elbridge Gerry
    Stephen Hopkins
    William Ellery
    Roger Sherman
    Samuel Huntington
    William Williams
    Oliver Wolcott
    Matthew Thornton
    DEISM AND THE FOUNDING FATHERS
    Posted on September 10, 2008 by Citizen Tom

    What is Deism?
    One thing that is common these days is to assert that the Founding Fathers were Deists. Since I doubt that the term deism is especially well understood, let us start with a definition.
    Deism\De”ism\ (d[=e]“[i^]z’m), n. [L. deus god: cf. F.
    d['e]isme. See Deity.]
    The doctrine or creed of a deist; the belief or system of
    those who acknowledge the existence of one God, but deny
    revelation.
    Note: Deism is the belief in natural religion only, or those
    truths, in doctrine and practice, which man is to
    discover by the light of reason, independent of any
    revelation from God. Hence, deism implies infidelity,
    or a disbelief in the divine origin of the Scriptures. (from here)
    As a religious philosophy, the key word is “reason”. Because they do not believe it reasonable to accept relevation such as the Bible, Deists claim to derive their beliefs about God from God’s creation. Curiously, however, with little actual proof some Deists readily accept the notion that the Founding Fathers were Deists.
    Who were the Deists?
    During the time of the Founding Fathers, Americans were not especially tolerant of non-Christians. The idea of religious freedom was still being invented and only slowly being accepted. Thomas Paine, one of the few known Deists amongst the Founding Fathers attests well to this fact as he begins The Age of Reason.
    IT has been my intention, for several years past, to publish my thoughts upon religion. I am well aware of the difficulties that attend the subject, and from that consideration, had reserved it to a more advanced period of life. I intended it to be the last offering I should make to my fellow-citizens of all nations, and that at a time when the purity of the motive that induced me to it, could not admit of a question, even by those who might disapprove the work.
    The circumstance that has now taken place in France of the total abolition of the whole national order of priesthood, and of everything appertaining to compulsive systems of religion, and compulsive articles of faith, has not only precipitated my intention, but rendered a work of this kind exceedingly necessary, lest in the general wreck of superstition, of false systems of government, and false theology, we lose sight of morality, of humanity, and of the theology that is true.
    As several of my colleagues and others of my fellow-citizens of France have given me the example of making their voluntary and individual profession of faith, I also will make mine; and I do this with all that sincerity and frankness with which the mind of man communicates with itself. (from here)
    Paine began his last great work in France as that nation sank into the Reign of Terror. In his own way, Paine feared for the loss of the theology that is true. So he started to write. Yet he had been right to wait. Although The Age of Reason sold well, its publication helped to destroy his reputation. Not content to explain his own beliefs, Paine directly attacked, particularly in Part 2 of The Age of Reason, the authenticity of the Bible.
    The religious sensitivities of early Americans were such that the Founding Fathers avoided the mention of God in the Constitution. They spoke about reverence for Almighty God and encouraged religious toleration, but many avoided discussing their personal beliefs. So which of the Founders were Deists? Most often the Founding Fathers included amongst Paine’s allies are spoken of as Deists. These allies included George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson.
     Was Washington a Deist? Washington was closed-mouth about his personal religious beliefs. He attended church services, but in the later part of his life he was not a communicant. He promoted religious toleration, and he promoted the belief in God. Washington established the tradition of chaplains serving in the United States military (see here). In addition, Washington inaugurated the first Thanksgiving (see here). Nonetheless, as he never made his personal beliefs about Christianity publicly known, Washington could have been a Deist.
     Was Franklin a deist? In his autobiography, Franklin makes it clear that he was a Deist. Nonetheless, it is also apparent that Franklin had great respect for the teachings of Jesus. Franklin had this to say a month before he died in a letter to Ezra Stiles.

    As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his divinity; tho’ it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and I think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble.
     Was Jefferson a Deist? In a letter to Ezra Stiles, Jefferson wrote ”I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know” (see here). Jefferson clearly questioned the divinity of Jesus. At the same time, like Franklin, Jefferson had respect for the teachings of Jesus. Jefferson studied the Bible intensely, trying to separate what he considered the myth from Jesus’ teachings. Based upon what he extracted from the New Testament, he wrote two works: ”The Philosophy of Jesus” (1804) and The Life and Morals of Jesus (1819-20?). Unsatisfied with the first work, Jefferson wrote the second (see here). The second is also known as The Jefferson Bible.
    If these men were Deists, then they were Christian Deists. Even if they had trouble accepting the divinity of Jesus, they did have faith in His religious teachings. What Jefferson discovered about himself, is perhaps true of everyone. We are each our own religious sect. Consider that as Paine, Washington, Franklin, and Jefferson approached the end of their years, each handled this crisis in his own way. Paine sought to explain and convince others of the principles his own religious beliefs. Washington gracefully accepted his role as a political leader; he set for others an example of resolute honor, Christian forbearance, and calm demeanor. Franklin approached his end with humble faith. And Jefferson scoured the Bible for something in which he could believe.
    Other Founding Fathers
    I have a book I bought in a bookstore at a national park some years back, The Signers of the Constitution by Robert G. Ferris and James H. Charleston. In the fall of 1787, fifty-five delegates attended the Constitutional Convention. Thirty-nine of those men completed the work and signed the document. The book provides a brief biographical sketch of each of these men. When I was first confronted with the notion that the Founding Fathers were Deists, I decided to look at the book once again.
    Although Ferris and Charleston did not write their book to expound upon the religious beliefs of the Founding Fathers, their work does provide clues. One signer at least was a religious minister. On at least two other occassions, the church affiliation of a signer was sufficiently strong that the authors remarked on this fact. However, what is most revealing in the book is where most of these men are buried. In an era when there was a great deal of empty land, and the families of most upstanding citizens had acreage of their own, at least twenty-eight of the signers were buried in the cemetery next to a Christian church.
    (more)
  • XQNP Herb 2012/07/11 03:03:35
    XQNP
    What about the names with no listed religion? Do I assume agnosticism?
  • Herb XQNP 2012/07/11 03:06:23 (edited)
    Herb
    i dont know
    Main Entry:con£gre£ga£tion£al
    Pronunciation:-shn*l, -sh*-n*l
    Function:adjective
    Date:1639

    1 : of or relating to a congregation
    2 capitalized : of or relating to a body of Protestant churches deriving from the English Independents of the 17th century and affirming the essential importance and the autonomy of the local congregation
    3 : of or relating to church government placing final authority in the assembly of the local congregation
    –con£gre£ga£tion£al£ism \-shn*-*li-z*m, -sh*-n*l-*i-\ noun , often capitalized
    –con£gre£ga£tion£al£ist \-shn*-list, -sh*-n*l-ist\ noun or adjective , often capitalized
    Name of Signer State Religious Affiliation
    Charles Carroll Maryland Catholic

    Samuel Huntington Connecticut
    Congregationalist

    Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregat...

    William Williams Connecticut Congrega...

    Oliver Wolcott Connecticut Congregat...

    Lyman Hall Georgia Congregationalist

    Samuel Adams Massachusetts Congregat...

    John Hancock Massachusetts Congreg...

    Josiah Bartlett New Hampshire Congregationalist

    William Whipple New Hampshire Congregationalist

    William Ellery Rhode Island
    Congregationalist

    John Adams Massachusetts Congregat... Unitarian

    Robert Treat Paine Massachusetts Congregat... Unitarian

    George Walton Georgia Episcopalian

    John Penn North Carolina Episcopalian

    George Ross...

















































































    i dont know
    Main Entry:con£gre£ga£tion£al
    Pronunciation:-shn*l, -sh*-n*l
    Function:adjective
    Date:1639

    1 : of or relating to a congregation
    2 capitalized : of or relating to a body of Protestant churches deriving from the English Independents of the 17th century and affirming the essential importance and the autonomy of the local congregation
    3 : of or relating to church government placing final authority in the assembly of the local congregation
    –con£gre£ga£tion£al£ism \-shn*-*li-z*m, -sh*-n*l-*i-\ noun , often capitalized
    –con£gre£ga£tion£al£ist \-shn*-list, -sh*-n*l-ist\ noun or adjective , often capitalized
    Name of Signer State Religious Affiliation
    Charles Carroll Maryland Catholic

    Samuel Huntington Connecticut
    Congregationalist

    Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregat...

    William Williams Connecticut Congrega...

    Oliver Wolcott Connecticut Congregat...

    Lyman Hall Georgia Congregationalist

    Samuel Adams Massachusetts Congregat...

    John Hancock Massachusetts Congreg...

    Josiah Bartlett New Hampshire Congregationalist

    William Whipple New Hampshire Congregationalist

    William Ellery Rhode Island
    Congregationalist

    John Adams Massachusetts Congregat... Unitarian

    Robert Treat Paine Massachusetts Congregat... Unitarian

    George Walton Georgia Episcopalian

    John Penn North Carolina Episcopalian

    George Ross Pennsylvania Episcopalian

    Thomas Heyward Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian

    Thomas Lynch Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian

    Arthur Middleton South Carolina Episcopalian

    Edward Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian

    Francis Lightfoot Lee Virginia Episcopalian

    Richard Henry Lee Virginia Episcopalian

    George Read Delaware Episcopalian

    Caesar Rodney Delaware Episcopalian

    Samuel Chase Maryland
    Episcopalian

    William Paca Maryland Episcopalian

    Thomas Stone Maryland Episcopalian

    Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts Episcopal...

    Francis Hopkinson New Jersey Episcopalian

    Francis Lewis New York Episcopalian

    Lewis Morris New York Episcopalian

    William Hooper North Carolina Episcopalian

    Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopal...

    John Morton Pennsylvania Episcopal...

    Stephen Hopkins Rhode Island Episcopalian

    Carter Braxton Virginia Episcopalian

    Benjamin Harrison Virginia Episcopalian

    Thomas Nelson Jr. Virginia Episcopalian

    George Wythe Virginia Episcopalian

    Thomas Jefferson Virginia Episcopalian (Deist)

    Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcop... (Deist)

    Button Gwinnett Georgia Episcopalian; Congregationalist

    James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopal... Presbyterian

    Joseph Hewes North Carolina Quaker, Episcopalian

    George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker, Episcopalian

    Thomas McKean Delaware Presbyterian

    Matthew Thornton New Hampshire Presbyterian

    Abraham Clark New Jersey Presbyterian

    John Hart New Jersey Presbyterian

    Richard Stockton New Jersey Presbyterian

    John Witherspoon New Jersey Presbyterian

    William Floyd New York Presbyterian

    Philip Livingston New York Presbyterian

    James Smith Pennsylvania Presbyterian

    George Taylor Pennsylvania Presbyter...

    Benjamin Rush
    Pennsylvania Presbyterian
    (more)
  • XQNP Herb 2012/07/11 03:11:34
    XQNP
    Then I suggest you make your own argument, instead of copy-pasting one you don't fully understand. Though I admit I was wrong about the Deist myth, I'll fix that now.
  • Herb XQNP 2012/07/11 03:12:44
    Herb
    i have a lot of info on my computer i copy it when i need it.
  • XQNP Herb 2012/07/11 03:20:17
    XQNP
    That's fair, I suppose, though it would be more fair from an argumentative perspective if you posted something you wrote. That way, you can defend your own work, and not risk misunderstandings.
  • Herb XQNP 2012/07/11 03:22:40
    Herb
    im always ready but have my data ready beacuse there a myths and i have did a lot of research. always ready for my own ideas.
  • XQNP Herb 2012/07/11 03:24:56
    XQNP
    That was a collection of data you didn't quite understand. It was not "your data." It's a good system, but I'd suggest reading something in its entirety before adding it to your collection.
  • 3003573 2012/07/11 00:34:14
  • Herb 3003573 2012/07/11 03:00:06
  • 3003573 Herb 2012/07/11 03:15:18
  • *Mahogany Goddess of P.H.A.E.T 2012/07/11 00:33:37
    i say
    *Mahogany Goddess of P.H.A.E.T
    No; it is an American nation, with different ideals, ideologies and identity.
  • Mark In Irvine 2012/07/11 00:24:47 (edited)
    i say
    Mark In Irvine
    we are a nation whose people practice a bunch of different religions as well as no religions. our constitution guarantees the right of each of us to practice the religion we want, or to practice no religion. the USA is religion-neutral. this is why we MUST keep religion out of our laws: if we let Christianity creep into our laws, before we know it sharia will also be creeping in. the only protection we have from that is to keep all religion out of government. ALL!
  • Herb Mark In... 2012/07/11 03:02:08 (edited)
    Herb
    relligion has been in our laws since it started how about the ten commandments, and bibilical pricipals

    Main Entry:con£gre£ga£tion£al
    Pronunciation:-shn*l, -sh*-n*l
    Function:adjective
    Date:1639

    1 : of or relating to a congregation
    2 capitalized : of or relating to a body of Protestant churches deriving from the English Independents of the 17th century and affirming the essential importance and the autonomy of the local congregation
    3 : of or relating to church government placing final authority in the assembly of the local congregation
    –con£gre£ga£tion£al£ism \-shn*-*li-z*m, -sh*-n*l-*i-\ noun , often capitalized
    –con£gre£ga£tion£al£ist \-shn*-list, -sh*-n*l-ist\ noun or adjective , often capitalized
    Name of Signer State Religious Affiliation
    Charles Carroll Maryland Catholic

    Samuel Huntington Connecticut
    Congregationalist

    Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregat...

    William Williams Connecticut Congrega...

    Oliver Wolcott Connecticut Congregat...

    Lyman Hall Georgia Congregationalist

    Samuel Adams Massachusetts Congregat...

    John Hancock Massachusetts Congreg...

    Josiah Bartlett New Hampshire Congregationalist

    William Whipple New Hampshire Congregationalist

    William Ellery Rhode Island
    Congregationalist

    John Adams Massachusetts Congregat... Unitarian

    Robert Treat Paine Massachusetts Congregat....























































































    relligion has been in our laws since it started how about the ten commandments, and bibilical pricipals relligion chart

    Main Entry:con£gre£ga£tion£al
    Pronunciation:-shn*l, -sh*-n*l
    Function:adjective
    Date:1639

    1 : of or relating to a congregation
    2 capitalized : of or relating to a body of Protestant churches deriving from the English Independents of the 17th century and affirming the essential importance and the autonomy of the local congregation
    3 : of or relating to church government placing final authority in the assembly of the local congregation
    –con£gre£ga£tion£al£ism \-shn*-*li-z*m, -sh*-n*l-*i-\ noun , often capitalized
    –con£gre£ga£tion£al£ist \-shn*-list, -sh*-n*l-ist\ noun or adjective , often capitalized
    Name of Signer State Religious Affiliation
    Charles Carroll Maryland Catholic

    Samuel Huntington Connecticut
    Congregationalist

    Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregat...

    William Williams Connecticut Congrega...

    Oliver Wolcott Connecticut Congregat...

    Lyman Hall Georgia Congregationalist

    Samuel Adams Massachusetts Congregat...

    John Hancock Massachusetts Congreg...

    Josiah Bartlett New Hampshire Congregationalist

    William Whipple New Hampshire Congregationalist

    William Ellery Rhode Island
    Congregationalist

    John Adams Massachusetts Congregat... Unitarian

    Robert Treat Paine Massachusetts Congregat... Unitarian

    George Walton Georgia Episcopalian

    John Penn North Carolina Episcopalian

    George Ross Pennsylvania Episcopalian

    Thomas Heyward Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian

    Thomas Lynch Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian

    Arthur Middleton South Carolina Episcopalian

    Edward Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian

    Francis Lightfoot Lee Virginia Episcopalian

    Richard Henry Lee Virginia Episcopalian

    George Read Delaware Episcopalian

    Caesar Rodney Delaware Episcopalian

    Samuel Chase Maryland
    Episcopalian

    William Paca Maryland Episcopalian

    Thomas Stone Maryland Episcopalian

    Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts Episcopal...

    Francis Hopkinson New Jersey Episcopalian

    Francis Lewis New York Episcopalian

    Lewis Morris New York Episcopalian

    William Hooper North Carolina Episcopalian

    Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopal...

    John Morton Pennsylvania Episcopal...

    Stephen Hopkins Rhode Island Episcopalian

    Carter Braxton Virginia Episcopalian

    Benjamin Harrison Virginia Episcopalian

    Thomas Nelson Jr. Virginia Episcopalian

    George Wythe Virginia Episcopalian

    Thomas Jefferson Virginia Episcopalian (Deist)

    Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcop... (Deist)

    Button Gwinnett Georgia Episcopalian; Congregationalist

    James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopal... Presbyterian

    Joseph Hewes North Carolina Quaker, Episcopalian

    George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker, Episcopalian

    Thomas McKean Delaware Presbyterian

    Matthew Thornton New Hampshire Presbyterian

    Abraham Clark New Jersey Presbyterian

    John Hart New Jersey Presbyterian

    Richard Stockton New Jersey Presbyterian

    John Witherspoon New Jersey Presbyterian

    William Floyd New York Presbyterian

    Philip Livingston New York Presbyterian

    James Smith Pennsylvania Presbyterian

    George Taylor Pennsylvania Presbyter...

    Benjamin Rush
    Pennsylvania Presbyterian
    (more)
  • Mark In... Herb 2012/07/11 03:07:15
    Mark In Irvine
    what? no room for Catholics?
  • Herb Mark In... 2012/07/11 03:23:39 (edited)
    Herb
    catholics came in way later that came from over seas rome and came in way later history. relligion chart
  • Mark In... Herb 2012/07/11 03:30:21
    Mark In Irvine
    so that means what .. that they have fewer rights than protestants ?? and what about other faiths that have grown since the founding of the USA? do they have fewer rights too? are any of them less legitimate than the protestants?

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2013/05/25 05:25:38

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