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Military suicides higher than combat deaths

Manwé 2011/02/12 20:39:25
Related Topics: Afghanistan, suicide, Army
For the second year in a row, the U.S. military has lost more troops to suicide than it has to combat in Iraq and Afghanistan.

year row military lost troops suicide combat iraq afghanistan

Overall, the services reported 434 suicides by personnel on active duty,
significantly more than the 381 suicides by active-duty personnel
reported in 2009. The 2010 total is below the 462 deaths in combat,
excluding accidents and illness. In 2009, active-duty suicides exceeded
deaths in battle.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/01/army-guard-reserve-suic...

Read More: http://www.congress.org/news/2011/01/24/more_troop...

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  • uzurnoodle 2011/02/13 21:23:58
    uzurnoodle
    Tragic news.
  • Mediclees 2011/02/13 17:29:16
    Mediclees
    +1
    look at what these men have to go through, speaking in perspective, you get shiped to a combat zone, you sleep on the ground out side for maybe 3 hours a night, you patrol streets looking for "Insurgents" who are dressed in civilian clothes, you carry a gun which you use to kill humans that are just average people, you see death, of both the enemy and friends, you dont hear from anyone back home for weeks on end...im proud to see these men fighting for our country and are thankful that they would put there lives on the line for us, but if they feel that they cant take it anymore and commit suicide then so be it. they deserve to choose how they want to die. God Bless them.
  • TAL 2011/02/13 05:40:53
    TAL
    young men and women enlist and are trained and taught how to fight and promised all sorts of things, then they get sent to combat zones and our government forget who they are! its an absolute disgrace!
  • Matt M 2011/02/13 02:36:21
    Matt  M
    +1
    This is nothing but a tragedy.
  • Werdnar 2011/02/13 02:33:06
    Werdnar
    +1
    The USA now engages in POLITICAL wars. The big shots don't let the men in uniform do their job........ which is, folks, win wars by killing people and blowing up things. We are playing into the hands of the enemy.
  • CRStar 2011/02/13 02:00:36
    CRStar
    Think about it..if Obumba was your Commander in Chief.....LMFAO
  • ♥ Emily the "Cutie Banana P... 2011/02/13 00:49:10
    ♥ Emily the "Cutie Banana Pie" ♥
    +4
    That's what war does to humans.
  • Doc. J 2011/02/12 23:46:58
    Doc. J
    +4
    We DO NOT patrol with unloaded weapons!!
    US and NATO policies have NOTHING to do with it!!

    I don't know where you got those ideas but you are flat-out wrong.
    DO NOT try and politicize this problem...
    Try this:
    You've been home two of the last five years, The kid who was a bump in your wife's belly when you left is now a child who screams when you go to hold him/her because they don't know who the hell you are, your loyal 12yo kid is now 14 and wants to know why he should listen to you because you're never around, and tells you he likes it better when you're gone....
    Your wife has decided that she has had enough of worrying about you for months on end and has handed you divorce papers with an abrupt "I just can't live like this anymore." then moves out to go live with her boyfriend who she was screwing while you were in a war zone. She also wiped out your bank account, and maxed all the credit cards that YOU are responsible for paying down because your name is on them
    So.....here you are, some of your friends are dead, you saw them die. Your family life is torn to shreds, you are $40,000 in debt, you're maligned by your own kids, the woman you vowed to love and cherish is pregnant by some civilian bum, shacking up with him, while you're back to living in the barracks contempla...









    We DO NOT patrol with unloaded weapons!!
    US and NATO policies have NOTHING to do with it!!

    I don't know where you got those ideas but you are flat-out wrong.
    DO NOT try and politicize this problem...
    Try this:
    You've been home two of the last five years, The kid who was a bump in your wife's belly when you left is now a child who screams when you go to hold him/her because they don't know who the hell you are, your loyal 12yo kid is now 14 and wants to know why he should listen to you because you're never around, and tells you he likes it better when you're gone....
    Your wife has decided that she has had enough of worrying about you for months on end and has handed you divorce papers with an abrupt "I just can't live like this anymore." then moves out to go live with her boyfriend who she was screwing while you were in a war zone. She also wiped out your bank account, and maxed all the credit cards that YOU are responsible for paying down because your name is on them
    So.....here you are, some of your friends are dead, you saw them die. Your family life is torn to shreds, you are $40,000 in debt, you're maligned by your own kids, the woman you vowed to love and cherish is pregnant by some civilian bum, shacking up with him, while you're back to living in the barracks contemplating spending the next 25 years to pay your way out of debt that you didn't aquire but are responsible for anyway, and you just sold your car to get a lawyer.....

    The scenario I have just laid out is an amalgamation of a LOT of stories in the DoD suicide report, some grimmer than others, but none are pretty, and they have in common that some poor bastard reached the end of his own rope and decided that it was just too hard to hold on any more. And it AINT policy that pushes them to that edge, it's far more personal than that.

    I READ the 450 page DoD suicide report.......I have a copy of it in my office.
    The military has researched exaustivly every suicide in the last 5 years trying to find common threads, if there is a suicide EVERY member of your chain of command and NCO chain, from your squad or team leader, ALL THE WAY UP to the brigade commander and Command Sergeant Major, report to a review board made up of General Officers from throughout the service branches to try and find out what happened and why, and what if anything could have been done to prevent it, and if there were warning signs. This board is not convened to find fault, but to find fact in order to put together a comprehensive plan to proactivly prevent Serviceperson suicides by arming each service member with the mindset to prepare for battle stressors and stressors from home as a result of deployment. The plan is called "Total Soldier Fitness" and it's being fielded but it's too soon to tell how much of a help it is, or if it will be of any help at all.

    Fact is, no two people are alike, so no one solution is going to be the "silver bullet" that stops service person suicides, everyone has their own personal limits, and everyone is different. As repeted depolyments continue to stress service members and their families, these things are going to continue to happen. The divorce rate in the Special Forces is out of this world because they deploy several times a year....and can't even tell their spouses where they are going due to the nature of their missions. Now imagine YOU are a Special Forces wife, your husband is gone again...you don't know where...and the death notification team arrives at your neighbor's door, to tell her that HER Green Beret is dead....How long do you think you can hold on?? How long before you go live with your mother, leaving him a goodbye letter on a set of divorce papers in a half empty house, because you have your limits too, and you have been pushed past them too many times now, and you're tired of being afraid every damn day??
    And what do you imagine it's going to do to him?

    Policy? Ammo?....We fu*kin WISH it was that simple.
    (more)
  • Manwé Doc. J 2011/02/13 00:44:58
    Manwé
    +1
    Where did I say they were related? Just that suicide in the military is higher than combat casualties. It is interesting that our casualties are that low.
  • Doc. J Manwé 2011/02/13 00:52:08
    Doc. J
    YOU did not say that.
    That part of my comment was directed at another.
  • Manwé Doc. J 2011/02/13 00:54:01
    Manwé
    +1
    Sorry, it was posted to me.
  • Doc. J Manwé 2011/02/13 07:18:15
    Doc. J
    My mistake.
    I should have been a little more clear.
  • BALANCED 2011/02/12 23:17:22
    BALANCED
    +1
    WTF does that tell you !
    making our soldiers fight a war in a country that does not want us there is emotionally/mentally devastating.
    their families are hurting back home with the country in the sh!tter - and they are screwing up their lives & the lives of the people they are killing - for no purpose at all -
    thet would make ANY sane person crazy !
    only insane people think it is sane !!
    this is not the first time I have seen this -
    Viet Nam was the same kind of economic war -
    the only difference was that the soldiers were killing their officers rather than committing suicide !
    sounds like a better choice to me !!
  • Doc. J BALANCED 2011/02/13 07:22:53
    Doc. J
    "making our soldiers fight a war in a country that does not want us there is emotionally/mentally devastating."

    You ever hear of a country that wanted foriegn armies duking it out on their soil?
    Not even in France after the liberation were they happy to host battles where their people were living.
  • BALANCED Doc. J 2011/02/13 15:15:22
    BALANCED
    +1
    we were fighting a world war to stop aggression -
    france loved us as liberators - they just wanted their country back -

    lets not forget that without france - england kicks our ass in 1776 !
    there is no reason to be in iraq -
    we both know it -
    remember Viet Nam !
    no reason to be there either - but we sure killed a lot of them & 50,000 US citizens !

    the soldiers are in a tight spot today -
    killing to help people that dont want the help - not knowing if your family at home will make it thru the economic turmoil while you are far away & can do nothing to help -
    too much pressure - for too few GOOD reasons - none actually !

    Like I said - no one agrees 100% - but on this one I stand firm - you are too young to have "seen" viet nam -
    it was a disgraceful use of USA aggression for ALL the wrong reasons !!
    basically because after 100 years of imperialism - france lost control !!
  • Doc. J BALANCED 2011/02/13 15:28:33
  • BALANCED Doc. J 2011/02/13 15:35:43
    BALANCED
    +1
    100% AGREED-
    my points exactly -
  • Doc. J BALANCED 2011/02/13 15:42:21
    Doc. J
    Very well, BUT when it comes down to serviceperson suicides, these things factor in only so much.
    The reasons seem to be a toxic cocktail of things that accompany multiple deployments usually FROM the homefront over "just" what goes on downrange.
  • BALANCED Doc. J 2011/02/13 16:17:17
    BALANCED
    OVERLOAD will make any sane person crazy - quickly -
    reason is needed for sanity -

    fighting for a solid visible reason like freedom [WW II] is easier to handle -
    but still difficult -
    when "reason" is vague or non existent - and the pressures of daily life become more than one can handle -
    sometimes suicide is the only door -
    not being able to walk in another mans shoes is the reason we are not able to figure out the WHY !

    military suicides are always higher in the reasonless wars -
    during viet nam - the enlisted men killed their officers -as much as they committed suicide or MORE !
    that was a different time & place ! my older brother in law was a marine shipped to viet nam in the late 50s -
    he had never heard of this "police action" or viet nam before !
    when he got off the transport - he was ON the front lines -
    he came home totally changed - his view of the USA was changed also -
    his stories are full of horrible events -
    women & children as the "enemy"
    the USA was the enemy to the vietnamese civilians - not liberators !-
    just like you & I would do if we were invaded by US !
  • Doc. J BALANCED 2011/02/13 18:51:57
    Doc. J
    You are forgeting what Soldiers fight for...
    I have said it before and will say it again, it has nothing to do with whether it's a "popular" war or not, THAT is the politics of the observer talking, projecting values into Soldiers that are NOT there.

    Soldiers in war whether it's WW2 or Iraq fight for ONE reason:
    Each other, period.
    We don't think about just or unjust, popular or unpopular, capitalism, or imperialism, baseball, apple pie, oil, spreading democracy, nation building, haliburton, blackwater, bush, obama, or any other such "large scope" topic.
    We fight....for each other. That.....me watching your back, you watching mne, both watching the other guys in an unfriendly place....is what's going to get us all home alive.
    Men get welded to each other living like that in bonds that are closer the husband/wife bonds are. Lose one of those men and it's devastating. Survivor's guilt runs high. "Why did he die and I'm still here?"
    Now take that, with multiple stressors from back home, and you see why some men get to the end of their rope....and let go.
    Politics.....the "rights and wrongs" or the particular war....arn't a part of it.
  • BALANCED Doc. J 2011/02/14 22:46:21
  • Wayne 2011/02/12 22:48:18
    Wayne
    +1
    This is devastating news to me. The news of great numbers of homeless veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan is also appalling. What in the world is going on?
  • Thom Payne 2011/02/12 22:37:54
    Thom Payne
    +2
    All wounds sustained in combat are not seen. Most of these suicides should be counted as deaths resultant of combat wounds.
  • sick'n'tired PWCM 2011/02/12 21:57:19
    sick'n'tired PWCM
    This is what happens when too much stress is put on young soldiers. The incredible double standard reguarding rules of engagement and patroling with unloaded weapons makes our guys sitting ducks in a live shooting gallery. The US and NATO policies are what are killing our troops and troop moral.
  • Liza Jane 2011/02/12 21:57:08
    Liza Jane
    +2
    They have horrible post-war trauma counseling. I know this from personal experience. I lost my last relationship to PTSD. He came back from Iraq and no one even offered him care, when I went to his superiors with concerns they said that he had to ask for help.

    It's horrible.
  • flaca BN-0 2011/02/12 21:36:29
    flaca BN-0
    +4
    this happens when you are engaged in wars that even the soldiers don't believe in. There's no greater strain on one's psyche than killing people for a cause you don't believe in.
  • Doc. J flaca BN-0 2011/02/13 00:54:09
    Doc. J
    +2
    You DO NOT know what you are talking about, I will respectfully ask you NOT to post your supositions as fact.
  • Liza Jane Doc. J 2011/02/13 02:53:54
    Liza Jane
    She's absolutely correct. Many American troops completely hate the fact that they're fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan and it has serious effects on their mental well-being.
  • Doc. J Liza Jane 2011/02/13 07:16:53
    Doc. J
    That's a "NEGATIVE" miss.

    I have been BOTH places. Iraq twice, and "stan" once. The combat stressors that I have spelled out (scroll up) would effect us whether we were in Iraq, Afganistan, or Kansas.
    It matters not a bit where "there" is, and the fact that she paints with such a broad asumptive brush tells me that she doesn't know a thing about us, and is projecting HER views on the wars on us and it is simply NOT the case.
  • Liza Jane Doc. J 2011/02/13 21:30:25
    Liza Jane
    +1
    I've known many troops who became nearly suicidal before they went back to Iraq and Afghanistan because they didn't believe in what they were doing there.

    She's correct.
  • Doc. J Liza Jane 2011/02/13 21:43:03
    Doc. J
    I'll call BS on that right now. Here's why:
    We don't fight for what you civilians THINK we do. She is dead wrong.
    Tell me, what do we fight for??
  • Liza Jane Doc. J 2011/02/13 22:32:53
    Liza Jane
    +1
    I'm talking about Marines bud, not civilians. My ex-husband and a few of his friends became suicidal before they were shipped BACK to Iraq for their second or third tours. They didn't believe in what they were fighting for and became depressed and suicidal at the thought of fighting a war that they didn't believe in but couldn't get out of.

    One of them killed himself when he got back from his second tour... the day he got back.

    I've had personal experience with this and you can't tell me I'm wrong because I've seen it, heard it, and lived it.

    Just because perhaps YOU haven't felt that way doesn't mean other troops don't and haven't.
  • Doc. J Liza Jane 2011/02/13 22:38:48
    Doc. J
    Your husband and a few of his friends.......That's what you are basing your whole broad stroke assertion on??

    I'm talking about what YOU (that means you) civilians think WE are fighting for.
    Because I'm going to bust your bubble....
  • Liza Jane Doc. J 2011/02/15 17:47:06
    Liza Jane
    +1
    No one said ALL troops feel this way but you're trying to deny that they do... your bubble was busted before you even blew it buddy.
  • Doc. J Liza Jane 2011/02/15 20:59:12
  • Matt M flaca BN-0 2011/02/13 02:35:10
    Matt  M
    +1
    You're really scum. This is a horrible tragedy experience by people we don't pay worth, to do things that we have collectively decided to do but won't do ourselves, and you've politicized it?


    There really isn't to much bad behavior on SH, it's a shame to see a post like this.
  • Gadfly2009 2011/02/12 21:10:57
    Gadfly2009
    +2
    Not surprising. That's because the actual killed-in-action numbers have been incredibly LOW for a prolonged war. Even at it's peak, about a fourth of the widely trumpet casualty totals were from non-combat causes.

    For comparison, Grant lost more men in ten minutes at Cold Harbor than we have in ten years of the Iraq-Afghanistan War.
  • Sunny Gadfly2009 2011/02/12 21:42:05
    Sunny
    +1
    Yes.. sure great... but aren't we suppose to be evolving as human beings...
    ....getting beyond the "I win / you loose" mentality?
  • Gadfly2009 Sunny 2011/02/12 21:57:25 (edited)
    Gadfly2009
    Tell this guy that:
    guy

    or this one:
    guy
  • Sunny Gadfly2009 2011/02/19 16:04:42
    Sunny
    +2
    We have just as many crazies in this country... In fact, they are probably on Sodahead right now!

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