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Mars rover: Is all this really necessary?

kir 2012/08/07 16:17:20
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Really CNN? Is all this really necessary? Is it necessary to learn about how life forms, whether or not we're alone in the universe, what kind of possibly economically important minerals exist on Mars, and many other questions? $2.6B seems like a huge price tag doesn't it? Indeed it is too high because the government always spends poorly, however we are spending nearly $800B a year on our military budget; this means that we could build a new mars rover every year using 0.325% of our military budget.

http://politicoid.blogspot.com/2012/05/alternative-uses-for-o...

People seem to be thinking that my view matches that of CNN's, it does not. I think CNN is absurd for their point of view that the money is wasted.
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  • Michelle 2012/08/07 18:33:40
    Yes; space exploration is worth it.
    Michelle
    +3
    Regardless of who is doing it, it should be done. Space exploration causes technological advances that would never be seen otherwise. With it, we're learning more about the universe around us which effects us back here on Earth. And nobody can deny the cultural effects it has had on us-- it unites us as one species in a big universe. When you look at the Earth from space, countries aren't colour-coded and borders impossible to see. Space is the final frontier, and if we stop travelling to it, we're surrendering it. The future is important; we have to remember to aim to it. Imagine what would happen if nobody want to the New World after it was discovered?

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  • TheR 2012/08/13 14:07:01
    Yes; space exploration is worth it.
    TheR
    +1
    It is worth it to know what resources are available under the dirt? Maybe new metals materials, or even oil. Not to mention Water. Mars
  • kir TheR 2012/08/13 14:36:35
    kir
    Oil is unlikely; it would mean that life flourished on mars for millions of years. It would be absolutely incredible if we found it.
  • TheR kir 2012/08/13 23:53:37
    TheR
    The red soil is similar to the color of soil in southern China. There is oil on Mars.

    http://www.mikejwilson.com/ma...
  • kir TheR 2012/08/14 01:52:40
    kir
    The red soil has nothing to do with the organic nature. The red soil is oxidized iron; oil comes from organic matter that has collected and been exposed to pressure and heat for millions of years.
  • TheR kir 2012/08/14 03:26:15 (edited)
    TheR
    Soils form from the interaction of climate, organisms, parent materials, relief, and time. Red soils result from the affect of a warm, humid climate weathering acid crystalline rocks on rolling hills over a long period of time.

    The soil results from a climate of warm (hot) temperatures and high rainfall, so there has been intense weathering of the rocks over the years. High rainfall has leached out most of the bases that were present.

    Materials that remain are composed mostly of iron, aluminum, and silica, and it is the iron that gives the soils the red color. The red color is not just from iron, but more specifically from unhydrated iron oxides. The red soils are generally on convex landforms that are well drained.

    Organic matter can mask soil colors in some areas.


    "The red color of soils is generally related to unhydrated iron oxides, although manganese dioxide and partially hydrated iron oxides may also contribute red colors. Since unhydrated iron oxide is relatively unstable under moist conditions, red color generally indicates good drainage and good aeration. Strongly red soils are expected on convex surfaces underlain by pervious rocks. ...

    In regions where the normal soils have red color, the well developed red color is one indication that the soils are relatively old or a...

    Soils form from the interaction of climate, organisms, parent materials, relief, and time. Red soils result from the affect of a warm, humid climate weathering acid crystalline rocks on rolling hills over a long period of time.

    The soil results from a climate of warm (hot) temperatures and high rainfall, so there has been intense weathering of the rocks over the years. High rainfall has leached out most of the bases that were present.

    Materials that remain are composed mostly of iron, aluminum, and silica, and it is the iron that gives the soils the red color. The red color is not just from iron, but more specifically from unhydrated iron oxides. The red soils are generally on convex landforms that are well drained.

    Organic matter can mask soil colors in some areas.


    "The red color of soils is generally related to unhydrated iron oxides, although manganese dioxide and partially hydrated iron oxides may also contribute red colors. Since unhydrated iron oxide is relatively unstable under moist conditions, red color generally indicates good drainage and good aeration. Strongly red soils are expected on convex surfaces underlain by pervious rocks. ...

    In regions where the normal soils have red color, the well developed red color is one indication that the soils are relatively old or at least that the soil material has been subjected to relatively intense weathering for a considerable time."

    { This means there is/was water, and since that is the case, organic existed, which means Oil.}
    (more)
  • DizziNY 2012/08/13 13:20:49
    No; space exploration is not worth it.
    DizziNY
    It's waste of money and right now we can't afford it.
  • kir DizziNY 2012/08/13 13:44:36
    kir
    Well I do agree that we should be cutting budget and utilizing private industry for space exploration, but my argument is simply that if we're going to be spending $800B a year on military, let's use a fraction of that for the benefit of humanity rather than its destruction.
  • Zeruke 2012/08/11 02:40:43
    Yes; space exploration is worth it.
    Zeruke
    +1
    of course space exploration is worth it but we do need more private companies to get in on it like MarsOne and the information that NASA has should be given to private companies too... one of the things that will help MarsOne is how NASA has been getting the landing accuracy closer http://www.nasa.gov/mission_p...
  • kir Zeruke 2012/08/11 03:21:30
    kir
    +1
    Oh definitely I prefer private over public; my only caveat is that if if we're not going to cut military spending out completely then at least most of it should go to domestic infrastructure and space exploration.

    Now here is one issue with private development: as it stands right now, international law is blocking it to a large extent.
  • Pedro Doller ~POTL-PWCM~JLA 2012/08/08 07:08:15
    Yes; space exploration is worth it.
    Pedro Doller ~POTL-PWCM~JLA
    The truth along with the secret answer reside some where on Mars. It's our job to find them.
  • *K'eim*h3reg' *Peh2u *Meg' 2012/08/08 01:29:22
    Space exploration is worth it, if it's the private sector.
    *K'eim*h3reg' *Peh2u *Meg'
    Unless it can somehow be proven that being on Mars makes us safer without diminishing our liberties. But even then its debatable.
  • kir *K'eim*... 2012/08/08 12:21:05
    kir
    +1
    Well not having every person on this planet would ensure our continued survival. Research yellowstone.
  • bill.fi... kir 2012/08/11 02:00:28
    bill.fife.3
    That's one area we would do very well to *mess* with Mother Nature.
  • kir bill.fi... 2012/08/11 02:10:53
    kir
    +1
    Sure if it were within our power to do so, but we do not have anywhere near enough knowledge to even begin to mess with such things. Also trial and error is not going to exactly go over well with that one.
  • bill.fi... kir 2012/08/11 02:54:30
    bill.fife.3
    What we don't have is any kind of real working time frame. Given the vast ranges now set down it just seems that the principle of low-level long-term exposure to whatever might generate a positive result however slight might be better than not trying at all. And as more research is done the problem can be addressed with whatever gain in confidence it might provide. A gamble, yes but with far less to lose than gain by any cautious attempts and the very good chance of time still being on our side..
  • umapathy Krishnamurthy 2012/08/08 00:07:55
    Yes; space exploration is worth it.
    umapathy Krishnamurthy
    +1
    It is truly worth
  • Tony 2012/08/07 22:48:50
    Yes; space exploration is worth it.
    Tony
    +2
    Space exploration has always gotten less then 1% of the federal budget and has probably given back more to society then most other federally funded programs
  • socokid 2012/08/07 21:02:46
    Yes; space exploration is worth it.
    socokid
    +1
    We spend more on our military than almost (44%) the rest of the world, combined.

    We spent more on air conditioning for our troops in deserts than we have on all of NASA's budgets, all of them, for every year... combined.

    Our priorities are whack.

    Being a part of grand exploration, the fulfillment of an inborn human craving, most certainly has meaning, and most certainly has value. This is without even beginning to speak of the knowledge gained, even through failure.
  • Bibliophilic 2012/08/07 19:48:53
    Yes; space exploration is worth it.
    Bibliophilic
    Yes, but not at the expense of other more pressing issues.
  • Michelle 2012/08/07 18:33:40
    Yes; space exploration is worth it.
    Michelle
    +3
    Regardless of who is doing it, it should be done. Space exploration causes technological advances that would never be seen otherwise. With it, we're learning more about the universe around us which effects us back here on Earth. And nobody can deny the cultural effects it has had on us-- it unites us as one species in a big universe. When you look at the Earth from space, countries aren't colour-coded and borders impossible to see. Space is the final frontier, and if we stop travelling to it, we're surrendering it. The future is important; we have to remember to aim to it. Imagine what would happen if nobody want to the New World after it was discovered?
  • bill.fi... Michelle 2012/08/11 01:22:40
    bill.fife.3
    LOL you had be going up to that last part!
  • Azazyel's Dragon 2012/08/07 18:27:16
    Space exploration is worth it, if it's the private sector.
    Azazyel's Dragon
    +1
    Don't knock it! We may find the missing link between Wolf Blitzer and Anderson Cooper...
  • ParkMan 2012/08/07 17:56:11
    Yes; space exploration is worth it.
    ParkMan
    +2
    Space exploration is absolutely worth it. Not exploring space is like the cavemen staying in their cave or Columbus not getting on that ship. We have a duty to explore.

    We also don't need to assume that Space money must come from defense. Defense spending is only about 20% of federal spending. There are other places to look too.
  • Warren - Novus Ordo Seclorum 2012/08/07 17:52:59
    Yes; space exploration is worth it.
    Warren - Novus Ordo Seclorum
    +1
    I don't think you will see much private interest in space exploration because the economic gains of space exploration are difficult to monopolize for private gain. Private sector investments will never be economically feasible unless some group gains competitive advantage compared to another competing group. Increasing knowledge and improving the lot of mankind, on its own, does not make investors money.
  • kir Warren ... 2012/08/07 17:55:52
    kir
    Actually there are so many different ways to make a profit in space. The real issue is that hyper-federal regulations prevent the utilizing of objects in space for private interests. In other words, while mining on mars may indeed be very lucrative, it is currently illegal by international law.

    Some examples where space will definitely show profit is in clean up. We have so much debris that it is becoming dangerous for future missions. Odds are cleanup will be one of the first major private professions in space.
  • Warren ... kir 2012/08/07 18:02:42
    Warren - Novus Ordo Seclorum
    Space is a "commons" so cleaning up space will benefit everyone. This is precisely the reason why it will never be done by private initiative, unless contracted to do so by "big government" on behalf of everyone. No firm will ever benefit by cleaning up space enough to justify their investment. The tragedy of an unregulated commons.
  • kir Warren ... 2012/08/07 18:17:49 (edited)
    kir
    You do realize that most of what is in space right now are privately owned right? Pretty much every geosynchronous satellite is owned by either a GPS company, communications company, or entertainment company. The dangers to these satellites is exactly why there will be private clean up companies in time.
  • Warren ... kir 2012/08/07 18:19:36
    Warren - Novus Ordo Seclorum
    Yes, but since there is no cost associated with polluting the near Earth orbit environment, there is no incentive for them to clean up after themselves. As I said, it is an unregulated commons.
  • kir Warren ... 2012/08/07 18:24:00
    kir
    Of course there is; do you have any idea how much it costs to build and put a satellite into orbit? Imagine if one of those satellites was destroyed by debris; not only would the replacement cost a lot of money, but the service outages would be a huge loss as well.

    We could get into regulation vs deregulation, but that's a different topic.
  • Warren ... kir 2012/08/07 18:37:46
    Warren - Novus Ordo Seclorum
    That's precisely the problem with an unregulated commons; the costs are spread over everyone who uses the commons. It is not in any one firm's interest to clean up after themselves, because if the other firms don't agree to clean up as well, it is all for nought. Space debris is indiscriminate.
  • kir Warren ... 2012/08/07 18:47:39
    kir
    Actually generally speaking the more regulation the worse the system becomes; take a look at the liquor industry. The same thing happened when the government started regulating the mortgage market. Also note that government simply plays favorites. http://politicoid.blogspot.co...
  • Warren ... kir 2012/08/07 18:50:20
    Warren - Novus Ordo Seclorum
    I didn't say a regulated commons will always work, I said that an unregulated commons will always fail. Always. And to your point, that is exactly why private investors will never invest in the public good.
  • kir Warren ... 2012/08/07 18:53:10
    kir
    Except that they don't always fail. You can look at Hong Kong as a great example of a market that is almost entirely free. The market self regulates over time. Your issue is that you are looking at a young market and saying that we need regulation of the market. However the fact that private companies can not own items in space, and can not utilize space the way they want is the cause of limited exploration and development of space and that is a form of REGULATION.

    Give the market time, and you will be amazed at what happens. We will indeed see companies forming to perform cleanup operations around our geosyncronous orbit zone.
  • Warren ... kir 2012/08/07 19:35:48
    Warren - Novus Ordo Seclorum
    No, not unregulated markets, unregulated commons. There is a distinction:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    "The commons were traditionally defined as the elements of the environment - forests, atmosphere, rivers, fisheries or grazing land - that are shared, used and enjoyed by all."

    But all markets are a subset of the global evironment, which at present is an unregulated commons, destined to fail. This is one of the major fatal flaws in libertarian economic philosophies.
  • kir Warren ... 2012/08/07 22:38:52
    kir
    Depending on the type of libertarian views, either there are or there are not such things as public ownership. Public ownership in general produces stagnation. There's a local hiking trail around here that's a great example. It has such potential yet it's barely functioning because it's publicly owned.
  • Jane 2012/08/07 17:36:57
    Yes; space exploration is worth it.
    Jane
    So you are saying that CNN disapproved of the Mars rover?
    I understood that the whole thing was financed by private corporations, is that so?
  • kir Jane 2012/08/07 17:44:49
    kir
    +1
    I would say that CNN disapproved of it. In my opinion government spending is not nearly as effective as private sector spending, but I'd rather see military spending used for exploration than murder.
  • nightcrawler2005 2012/08/07 17:32:07
    Yes; space exploration is worth it.
    nightcrawler2005
    Space exploration is totally worth it, regardless if its NASA or the private sector as long as its being done. its the only way we are going to truly survive as a species is when we set up shop on other worlds. The technological advancements not to mention the raw resources will be unbelievable.
  • Aurora 2012/08/07 17:01:01
    Space exploration is worth it, if it's the private sector.
    Aurora
    I think this is very American to want to seek new frontiers, I like it. Military should have it's own budget, when has government ever spent money properly. i think Obama is going to shut down Nasa their is only a skeleton crew left, don't worry given enough time Obama will destroy everything American about America.
  • darlenedoskas1969 2012/08/07 16:58:53
    Yes; space exploration is worth it.
    darlenedoskas1969
    +1
    ...the next frontier... totally worth it.

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