evangelism_vision 2012/07/26 01:22:38

I could never myself understand why I, being a Christian, couldn't agree with one of the greatest founding fathers on Christianity. Why would he say things like this about Christianity? Why didn't he have the same take on Jesus as most Christians and other founding fathers for that matter? Don't all Christians believe in Jesus?
What the heck is going on here? How can you do so much for such a great "Christian" nation but then say these things?

It creates a huge problem because everyone knows this guy was not an idiot, but for some reason he agrees with virtually nobody when it comes to Christianity and Jesus. A lot of people simply write him off as being wrong on the subject of religion and theology. But the more one looks into it the more one discovers that he most likely was not wrong. In fact, it appears that he was dead on. So what does this say about the people who disagree with him?
I think this topic you mentioned is good and I am glad you brought it up.
It hits on a very important point that so few people are ever able to really think about or comprehend, and that is: different levels of understanding. What do I mean by different levels of understanding? I mean that Thomas Jefferson took a much more educated approach to Christianity.

He was at a much HIGHER level than most Christians.
Allow me to elaborate. I can no longer call myself a Republican because that party no longer adherers to my values. They have become perverted and I have become smarter. It used to be reasonable to be a Republican when they practiced Constitutional principles like small government, monetary responsibility, free-enterprise, and so on. But now the Republican party practices none of these things. They love big government, they love war, they love taxes, they love all the things the Constitution doesn't. So I now have to call myself a libertarian or a conservative or a Constitutionalist or anything that hasn't been perverted by the Republican party.
This is precisely the way Jefferson feels about Christianity. He knows that Christianity has been hijacked and perverted by the Caesars. He knows the history behind Rome and all the filth and money that came with the formation of Christianity. He knows the ugly side of it. Most Christians do not. So when he comes out and disagrees with the ugly aspects he gets ridiculed by the majority of Christians who do not have the educated and refined view Jefferson has. This is the exact same as if I were to disagree with certain Republican principles because they aren't really Republican. I too would be bashed by the majority of Republicans, the ones that have been perverted and have lost the true principles. Look what happens when Ron Paul, a real Republican, comes out and says it's not a Republican value to vote in favor of war. Every Republican in office ridicules him.
This is what is going on with Thomas Jefferson and Christianity. He is the REAL Christian who understands Christianity while most Christians are not at his understanding. They haven't done their homework to know what the Bible is really saying. They haven't read outside of the Bible to see how everything fits together - just like how most Republicans have not done their homework to understand why Ron Paul has a much higher understanding than they do.
Wait, wait, wait... how can Thomas Jefferson be a REAL Christian if he doesn't believe you need to be saved by Jesus? I'm glad you asked. This is what used to confuse me on Jefferson for the longest time. Here it is: JESUS IS A METAPHOR. That's right a metaphor, just like many, many other things in the Bible. Yes, he was a real person and yes he did great things. But in the story of the New Testament Jesus is a metaphor for spiritual and intellectual enlightenment. Of course you need to be saved through Jesus, that is, spiritual and intellectual enlightenment. Of course you need to be born again and shed your old ways. Of course you need the blood of Christ to be saved. You need to change yourself and your understanding to be saved, otherwise you will not pass the test. This is what the story of Jesus is saying in my most humble opinion. And I am almost positive this is the way that Thomas Jefferson took it.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh This obviously you know opens up a huge can of worms and creates a huge sub-topic for discussion. It is not the purpose of this post to talk about Jesus and Sun Worship, but suffice to say there are huge similarities and things that need to be addressed in modern day Christianity.
So when you have a guy like Thomas Jefferson coming out and saying things about the teachings of Jesus being hijacked it starts to become more clear what's going on. You start to understand why he respects Jesus clearly, but disrespects the way the clergy has totally twisted things to enslave humanity. He knows what's going on. He has done his homework fully.
Look at one of his statements:
" I forgot to observe, when speaking of the New Testament, that you should read all the histories of Christ, as well of those whom a council of ecclesiastics have decided for us, to be Pseudo-evangelists, as those they named Evangelists. Because these Pseudo-evangelists pretended to inspiration, as much as the others, and you are to judge their pretensions by your own reason, and not by the reason of those ecclesiastics."
Thomas Jefferson
That's right. Go read what the Gnostics had to say. What does Jesus say in the Gospel of Thomas? What about the Kolbrin Bible? What about all the other texts that aren't in the Bible? Why do so many Christians shy away from reading something about Jesus that ISN'T in the Bible? The Bible is just one book. There is a whole library of history out there for you to learn what Jesus was really all about.
Perhaps Thomas Jefferson has uncovered something that few Christians are prepared to handle, the same way Ron Paul has discovered something that few Republicans are prepared to handle. But then again, maybe he was just some lost intellectual that was too logical and unemotional to understand such a simple concept of atonement for all who believe in the Son of God. I leave that for you to decide. However, it may be wise to follow Jefferson's advice in educating yourself on ALL the histories of Christ and to make your OWN decision based off your own research and reasoning, not that of the ecclesiastics.
So was Thomas Jefferson an atheist? Absolutely not! Was he religious? No. Did he like the church? Nope. Was he a Deist? Yes. Was he a Christian? Yes - a real Christian. He even says so himself:
" I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."
Thomas Jefferson
So one has to ask themselves:
If Thomas Jefferson is claiming to be a real Christian and other people with opposed beliefs are also claiming to be real Christians then who has got it right? Or perhaps both do and are at different levels of understanding commensurate to their current evolution? After all:
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God
Ephesians 3:10
Maybe this Thomas Jefferson wasn't so stupid when it came to religion after all.

*********************** EVIDENCE **********************************

Letter from Thomas Jefferson - "I Have Sworn Upon the Altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

To Dr. Benjamin Rush - Monticello, Sep. 23, 1800

  _To Dr. Benjamin Rush_

_Monticello, Sep. 23, 1800_

DEAR SIR, -- I have to acknolege the receipt of your favor of
Aug. 22, and to congratulate you on the healthiness of your city.
Still Baltimore, Norfolk & Providence admonish us that we are not
clear of our new scourge. When great evils happen, I am in the habit
of looking out for what good may arise from them as consolations to
us, and Providence has in fact so established the order of things, as
that most evils are the means of producing some good. The yellow
fever will discourage the growth of great cities in our nation, & I
view great cities as pestilential to the morals, the health and the
liberties of man. True, they nourish some of the elegant arts, but
the useful ones can thrive elsewhere, and less perfection in the
others, with more health, virtue & freedom, would be my choice.

I agree with you entirely, in condemning the mania of giving
names to objects of any kind after persons still living. Death alone
can seal the title of any man to this honor, by putting it out of his
power to forfeit it. There is one other mode of recording merit,
which I have often thought might be introduced, so as to gratify the
living by praising the dead. In giving, for instance, a commission
of chief justice to Bushrod Washington, it should be in consideration
of his integrity, and science in the laws, and of the services
rendered to our country by his illustrious relation, &c. A
commission to a descendant of Dr. Franklin, besides being in
consideration of the proper qualifications of the person, should add
that of the great services rendered by his illustrious ancestor, Bn
Fr, by the advancement of science, by inventions useful to man, &c.
I am not sure that we ought to change all our names. And during the
regal government, sometimes, indeed, they were given through
adulation; but often also as the reward of the merit of the times,
sometimes for services rendered the colony. Perhaps, too, a name
when given, should be deemed a sacred property.

I promised you a letter on Christianity, which I have not
forgotten. On the contrary, it is because I have reflected on it,
that I find much more time necessary for it than I can at present
dispose of. I have a view of the subject which ought to displease
neither the rational Christian nor Deists, and would reconcile many
to a character they have too hastily rejected. I do not know that it
would reconcile the _genus irritabile vatum_ who are all in arms
against me. Their hostility is on too interesting ground to be
softened. The delusion into which the X. Y. Z. plot shewed it
possible to push the people; the successful experiment made under the
prevalence of that delusion on the clause of the constitution, which,
while it secured the freedom of the press, covered also the freedom
of religion, had given to the clergy a very favorite hope of
obtaining an establishment of a particular form of Christianity thro'
the U. S.; and as every sect believes its own form the true one,
every one perhaps hoped for his own, but especially the Episcopalians
& Congregationalists. The returning good sense of our country
threatens abortion to their hopes, & they believe that any portion of
power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes.
And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god,
eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.
But this is all they have to fear from me: & enough too in their
opinion, & this is the cause of their printing lying pamphlets
against me, forging conversations for me with Mazzei, Bishop Madison,
&c.;, which are absolute falsehoods without a circumstance of truth to
rest on; falsehoods, too, of which I acquit Mazzei & Bishop Madison,
for they are men of truth.

But enough of this: it is more than I have before committed to
paper on the subject of all the lies that has been preached and
printed against me. I have not seen the work of Sonnoni which you
mention, but I have seen another work on Africa, (Parke's,) which I
fear will throw cold water on the hopes of the friends of freedom.
You will hear an account of an attempt at insurrection in this state.
I am looking with anxiety to see what will be it's effect on our
state. We are truly to be pitied. I fear we have little chance to
see you at the Federal city or in Virginia, and as little at
Philadelphia. It would be a great treat to receive you here. But
nothing but sickness could effect that; so I do not wish it. For I
wish you health and happiness, and think of you with affection.

"All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately, by the grace of God."

Source: Letter of Thomas Jefferson to Roger C. Weightman, June 24, 1826. This was the last letter Jefferson ever wrote.

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  • Philo-Publius 2012/07/26 01:41:28
    'Deist' has almost become a sort of catch-all term to indicate virtually anyone who acknowledges a higher power but does not take the Bible literally. More specifically, 'Deist' may refer to a person who holds that God, having once 'set the universe in motion', does not thereafter intervene.

    Was Jefferson a Deist? Clearly in the former sense at least. I don't think this need imply in any way, however, that he was not a Christian.

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  • Mike 2012/07/26 13:38:32
    Don't believe anything a libatard says until you research it for yourself
  • evangel... Mike 2012/07/26 21:31:19 (edited)
    I do. I always research and I have the Book George Washington too I am reading. By the way Wonderful Book by Peter Lillback called Sacred Fire
  • Dave Sawyer ♥ Child of God ♥ 2012/07/26 02:34:31
    Dave Sawyer ♥ Child of God ♥
    Jefferson was looking at the "Christianity" of his day, and he was correct on most points. His lack of faith in miracles I attribute to his skepticism concerning "unscientific" occurrences.
    I agree with Jefferson on a lot of things, but I think I understand him differently than others do.
  • evangelism_vision 2012/07/26 02:26:51 (edited)
    I know when Liberals see " Glen Beck" or David Barton, they say he lies... What would you expect Liberals to say?





    YA..................... OK MOVING ON!


    Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh these Atheist and Marxist! My goodness what a web they spin
  • evangelism_vision 2012/07/26 02:20:35
  • John Hall 2012/07/26 01:49:22
    John Hall
    Most of the founding fathers were deists who believed in a god or a higher power .
  • evangel... John Hall 2012/07/26 02:12:20
    Many of them were Christians in spite of what those people say who rewrote history
  • John Hall evangel... 2012/07/26 03:07:34
    John Hall
    I can't argue with what your saying I know with what I've read most were deists that believed in god but I never read that they were Christians .
  • SK-pro ... John Hall 2012/07/26 05:16:23
    SK-pro impeachment
    Only one was a deist, B Franklin. 27 of the 56 signers of the DOI had Theological degrees and all served in Church in some capacity. Don't listen to secular revisionism, they will lie through their tooth to deceive and rid America of it's Christian roots.
  • John Hall SK-pro ... 2012/07/26 12:11:29
    John Hall
    Thanks for the info where would I find more info on this . Also it wouldn't matter if they were Christians or not they believed in god and how I saw that was a good thing .
  • Elizabeth John Hall 2012/07/26 12:42:42
    "The Light and the Glory" by Peter Marshal gives an untainted history of the US from it's discovery, by Christopher Columbus to 1793. Benjamin Franklin called for prayer to be held every morning at the Constitutional Convention in 1787.
  • John Hall Elizabeth 2012/07/26 13:42:53
    John Hall
    Thank you .
  • Elizabeth John Hall 2012/07/26 15:16:49
    Your welcome.
  • SK-pro ... John Hall 2012/07/26 15:46:34 (edited)
    SK-pro impeachment
    It's God, not god! get it right. Um Christains believe in God, so yes it does matter.
  • John Hall SK-pro ... 2012/07/26 15:48:34
    John Hall
    The way I see it god , God or GOD the way it's spelled it's great .
  • SK-pro ... John Hall 2012/07/26 15:49:20
    SK-pro impeachment
    Google god and God. learn the difference, smart aleck.
  • evangel... John Hall 2012/07/26 21:40:48
    Well Spiritually it does matter if they were or were not because Only believers can be led by the Holy Spirit and many of the Founders in their own writings boldly declared they were.

    Many raised questions that would make them think that they were not but do we not question today? They did then as well. If they believed in God and I know they did by their works, they were still influenced by God to create the Greatest Nation on the planet and we know that there is not another Country like America nor has there been nor will there ever be another Country that matches it.

    The only one that comes close where God had divine intervention was the Re-Birth of Israel as fulfilled in Bible prophecy but that is another subject for another time.
  • John Hall evangel... 2012/07/26 22:18:24
    John Hall
    Thank you for that info .
  • evangel... John Hall 2012/07/27 00:30:03
    No problem just a thought
  • evangel... SK-pro ... 2012/07/26 21:35:41
    I disagree with that as well. Ben was not a deist and I have read many of his writings and Statements. You say that based on what you were taught or what you read. Because you were not there nor was I so as I said to the other person above, we have to look at his writings to see.

    Problem in America is that there is a great deal of re-writing of American history and right out lying.

  • evangel... John Hall 2012/07/26 21:32:53
    Ya the Author you read claimed that after all you and I were not there so we have to rely on writings by that person which are many and that's why I disagree
  • History... evangel... 2012/12/27 13:41:13
    No they were not. You religious zealots are the ones attempting to 'rewrite' it. Most of the founders were educated men of the enlightenment, and many (such as Jefferson, Franklin, Washington, etc., were deists.)

    In fact, many feared a taking of over of the government by religious leaders. People like Rick Santorum and Michelle Bachmann prove they had good reason to.
  • evangel... History... 2012/12/27 21:12:37
    No I disagree and I've studied History and read their writings. NICE TRY
  • Philo-Publius 2012/07/26 01:41:28
    'Deist' has almost become a sort of catch-all term to indicate virtually anyone who acknowledges a higher power but does not take the Bible literally. More specifically, 'Deist' may refer to a person who holds that God, having once 'set the universe in motion', does not thereafter intervene.

    Was Jefferson a Deist? Clearly in the former sense at least. I don't think this need imply in any way, however, that he was not a Christian.
  • NPC 2012/07/26 01:33:14
    Thomas Jefferson was a genius, no doubt about that. He was a wealthy plantation owner and was one of the most influentiial founding faters. The man had a style all his own in the early years of our Glorius Republilc. Jefferson was considered an elitist and statesman of his time before we defeated the British King and establshed the 13 Colonies as the United States of America.

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