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Liberal Logic 101..... Please pass it on.

Common Sense Conservative 2012/06/30 19:21:49
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  • none 2012/06/30 20:11:10
    none
    +14
    Liberal Logic, isn't that an oxymoron???
  • Stryder none 2012/07/01 15:57:24
    Stryder
    +2
    Indeed.
  • Vision ... none 2012/07/01 17:22:05
  • Nam Era Vet #1 DNA TLC 2012/06/30 20:09:46
    Nam Era Vet #1 DNA TLC
    +6
    I agree with most of it. I do however find that some very conservative Christians here are very bothered by the fact that Romney is Mormon. Not my words, Theirs.
  • betz Nam Era... 2012/06/30 20:14:52
    betz
    +9
    I'm a conservative Christian who has no problem with the Mormon religion. They are God fearing Christians.
  • Nam Era... betz 2012/06/30 20:19:43 (edited)
    Nam Era Vet #1 DNA TLC
    +4
    Ah ma'am I hate to tell you this but they can't be Christians according to the Bible. And I am Christian Conservative also. There are many reasons they can't be Christian. The most important one is they have a completely other gospel book than the Bible. The Book Of Mormon And the Bible says>> Galatians 1:8 King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
    But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

    You can't be a Christian according to the Bible and have a whole other Gospel. Period. And that's just one of many reasons they can't be Christians.
  • betz Nam Era... 2012/07/01 00:10:59
    betz
    +5
    The members believe in the LOrd Jesus Christ. You can pull at straws all you want. To me that is a Christian. Who are we to judge?
  • Nam Era... betz 2012/07/01 02:57:27 (edited)
    Nam Era Vet #1 DNA TLC
    +2
    Show me in the Bible where it allows people who follow another gospel to be Christians?
    When I say this understand that I allow everyone to be whatever spiritual way the want to follow. And I don't judge them. But what I am talking here is definitions.

    Pull straws? They believe satan is Jesus's brother. They think that the one God Jehovah or Yahweh is one of many gods and all Mormons can all become gods and goddesses when we die and ascend to the "next level" whatever that is. Jesus is not part of the godhead to them he is just another prophet. And Joseph Smith their prophet is on the same level of importance as Jesus. On the same level as Jesus Christ? Did Joseph Smith rise form the dead? I think not. His bones are still in the ground. Unless you believe that Jesus is the Son of God and rose from the dead, you can not be a real Christian according to the Bible. That is not pulling straws this is the very foundations of Christianity that I know because I studied them in school. Do you follow the real Bible? If you do then you are Christian. But if you don't then you might want to actually read the real Bible. And then look at the Mormons belief system. But Mormons can not call themselves Christian by the REAL Bible

    The only thing they take is just a little bit of the Christian i...

    Show me in the Bible where it allows people who follow another gospel to be Christians?
    When I say this understand that I allow everyone to be whatever spiritual way the want to follow. And I don't judge them. But what I am talking here is definitions.

    Pull straws? They believe satan is Jesus's brother. They think that the one God Jehovah or Yahweh is one of many gods and all Mormons can all become gods and goddesses when we die and ascend to the "next level" whatever that is. Jesus is not part of the godhead to them he is just another prophet. And Joseph Smith their prophet is on the same level of importance as Jesus. On the same level as Jesus Christ? Did Joseph Smith rise form the dead? I think not. His bones are still in the ground. Unless you believe that Jesus is the Son of God and rose from the dead, you can not be a real Christian according to the Bible. That is not pulling straws this is the very foundations of Christianity that I know because I studied them in school. Do you follow the real Bible? If you do then you are Christian. But if you don't then you might want to actually read the real Bible. And then look at the Mormons belief system. But Mormons can not call themselves Christian by the REAL Bible

    The only thing they take is just a little bit of the Christian idea then built their own belief system. If you call Mormons Christians, then why not call Muslims Christians?
    I mean after all they call Jesus a prophet just like Mohammed or Joseph Smith.
    So are Muslims Christians? They have a different book called the Koran. But if we are going to be that inclusive, let's include Muslims.
    (more)
  • joseph ... Nam Era... 2012/07/01 04:36:23
  • Common ... joseph ... 2012/07/01 04:43:38
    Common Sense Conservative
    +3
    Wow is that dumb.
  • joseph ... Common ... 2012/07/01 06:05:32 (edited)
  • Common ... joseph ... 2012/07/01 15:26:28
    Common Sense Conservative
    +3
    Son, you need sleep and maybe a life.
  • joseph ... Common ... 2012/07/02 17:53:40
  • Common ... joseph ... 2012/07/02 19:51:22
    Common Sense Conservative
    +2
    Yea, I just took a joseph while sitting on the joseph and then I wiped my joseph and then flushed another joseph down the joseph.
  • COCO Common ... 2012/07/03 01:36:30
  • betz Common ... 2012/07/01 09:56:55
    betz
    +2
    And he blocks you if you have the patriotic seal Raiders. He is one tolerant person isn't he? Kind of like his president. It's his way or the highway.
  • Common ... betz 2012/07/01 15:26:51
    Common Sense Conservative
    +2
    That's no joke.
  • joseph ... Common ... 2012/07/02 17:52:44
  • Common ... joseph ... 2012/07/02 19:51:37
    Common Sense Conservative
    Yippee
  • Vision ... Common ... 2012/07/01 17:21:26
  • betz Vision ... 2012/07/01 20:30:14
    betz
    +1
    Joseph Stalin...I love that one Brooke
  • betz Common ... 2012/07/01 20:29:16
    betz
    +1
    It's a bit ridiculous. He doesn't seem to be working with a full deck. He is right that I am white, Christian and a Conservative though.
  • Common ... betz 2012/07/01 21:40:59
  • betz Nam Era... 2012/07/01 09:55:26
    betz
    +2
    I'm not going to argue about religion, Nam I'm just not. It's futile. The Mormans believe in Jesus Christ and that sits fine with me. I should have clarified my statement a few posts back. I am a Catholic and I have heard on this site from people who do not think Catholics are Christians either. We do not push (if I can use that word) the Bible the way other Christians do. If someone believes in Christ then I consider them a Christian. Bottom line with me. Once again I will not judge others for what they believe.
  • Nam Era... betz 2012/07/01 17:53:03 (edited)
    Nam Era Vet #1 DNA TLC
    +2
    Betz I am sorry I just might have been in a mood or something. You have been very nice to me and so has angel baby. I would never not vote for him based on religion. Thanks Nam
  • betz Nam Era... 2012/07/01 20:25:36
    betz
    +2
    Hey no problem my friend. You feel strongly about something and that's great. You had no reason to apologize but it was very kind of you. Have a great Sunday Nam era Vet. :)
  • Nam Era... betz 2012/07/01 21:48:56 (edited)
    Nam Era Vet #1 DNA TLC
    +2
    Thanks I just got back from feeding the horses and donkeys and my brain is fried. My shirt was so wet from sweat I could wring it out. Have a great Sunday.

    When I first got healed by Jesus and got converted back to Christianity, I was even more zealous for Christ. I had to tone it down a little. LOL
  • betz Nam Era... 2012/07/01 22:30:13
    betz
    +2
    I couldn't be happier for you Nam Era. Finding the Lord is a wonderful thing.
    My Sunday has been a good one. The rain is starting here in NW Ohio with tornado warnings all around us. Not in our county though.
  • Nam Era... betz 2012/07/01 22:41:03
    Nam Era Vet #1 DNA TLC
    +1
    Stay safe, prayers
  • betz Nam Era... 2012/07/01 22:56:17
    betz
    +2
    God bless you Nam.
  • Nam Era... betz 2012/07/01 06:01:05
    Nam Era Vet #1 DNA TLC
    Is Mormonism Christian?
    http://carm.org/is-mormonism-...
    by Matt Slick



    "Is Mormonism Christian?" is a very important question. The answer is equally important and simple. No. Mormonism is not Christian.

    If you are a Mormon, please realize that CARM is not trying to attack you, your character, or the sincerity of your belief. If you are a non-Mormon looking into Mormonism, or if you are a Christian who is simply researching Mormonism, then this paper should be of help to you.

    The reason Mormonism is not Christian is because it denies one or more of the essential doctrines of Christianity. Of the essential doctrines (that there is only one God in all existence, Jesus is divine, God in flesh, forgiveness of sins is by grace alone (Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 4:1-5), and Jesus rose from the dead physically (1 John 2:19; Luke 24:39), the gospel being the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, 1 Cor. 15:1-4), Mormonism denies three of them: how many gods there are, the God of Christianity, and His work of salvation.

    Mormonism teaches

    Mormonism teaches that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones (D. & C. 130:22) and that Jesus is a creation. It teaches that he was begotten in heaven as one of God’s spirit children (See the Book, Jesus the Christ, by James Talmage, p. 8). This is in strict ...





















    Is Mormonism Christian?
    http://carm.org/is-mormonism-...
    by Matt Slick



    "Is Mormonism Christian?" is a very important question. The answer is equally important and simple. No. Mormonism is not Christian.

    If you are a Mormon, please realize that CARM is not trying to attack you, your character, or the sincerity of your belief. If you are a non-Mormon looking into Mormonism, or if you are a Christian who is simply researching Mormonism, then this paper should be of help to you.

    The reason Mormonism is not Christian is because it denies one or more of the essential doctrines of Christianity. Of the essential doctrines (that there is only one God in all existence, Jesus is divine, God in flesh, forgiveness of sins is by grace alone (Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 4:1-5), and Jesus rose from the dead physically (1 John 2:19; Luke 24:39), the gospel being the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, 1 Cor. 15:1-4), Mormonism denies three of them: how many gods there are, the God of Christianity, and His work of salvation.

    Mormonism teaches

    Mormonism teaches that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones (D. & C. 130:22) and that Jesus is a creation. It teaches that he was begotten in heaven as one of God’s spirit children (See the Book, Jesus the Christ, by James Talmage, p. 8). This is in strict contrast to the biblical teaching that he is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14), eternal (John 1:1, 2, 15), uncreated, yet born on earth (Col. 1:15), and the creator all (John 1:3; Col. 1:16-17). Jesus cannot be both created and not created at the same time. Though Mormonism teaches that Jesus is God in flesh, it teaches that he is "a" god in flesh, one of three gods that comprise the office of the Trinity (Articles of Faith, by Talmage, pp. 35-40). These three gods are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. This is in direct contradiction of the biblical doctrine that there is only one God (Isaiah 44:6,8; 45:5). See Trinity for a correct discussion of what the Trinity is (see also, false trinity)

    Because Mormonism denies the biblical truth of who God is, who Jesus is, how forgiveness of sins is attained, and what the gospel is, the Mormon is not Christian -- in spite of all his claims that he is Christian. Quite simply, the Mormon god doesn't exist.

    Mormonism teaches

    Mormon theology teaches that God is only one of countless gods, that he used to be a man on another planet, that he became a god by following the laws and ordinances of that god on that world, and that he brought one of his wives to this world with whom he produces spirit children who then inhabit human bodies at birth. The first spirit child to be born was Jesus. Second was Satan, and then we all followed. But, the Bible says that there is only one God (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8; 45:5), that God has been God eternally (Psalm 90:2) -- which means he was never a man on another planet. Since the Bible denies the existence of other gods (and goddesses), the idea that Jesus is the product of a god and goddess couple is rejected. The Bible tells us that Jesus - The Jesus of Mormonism - is definitely not the same Jesus of the Bible. Therefore, faith in the Mormon Jesus is faith misplaced because the Mormon Jesus doesn't exist.

    Mormonism teaches that the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross itself (and receiving it by faith) is not sufficient to bring forgiveness of sins. It teaches that the forgiveness of sins is obtained though a cooperative effort with God; that is, we must be good and follow the laws and ordinances of the Mormon church in order to obtain forgiveness. Consider James Talmage, a very important Mormon figure who said, "The sectarian dogma of justification by faith alone has exercised an influence for evil," (Articles, p. 432), and "Hence the justice of the scriptural doctrine that salvation comes to the individual only through obedience," (Articles, p. 81). This clearly contradicts the biblical doctrine of the forgiveness of sins by grace through faith (Rom. 5:1; 6:23; Eph. 2:8-9) and the doctrine that works are not part of our salvation but a result of them (Rom. 4:5, James 2:14-18).

    To further confuse the matter, Mormonism further states that salvation is twofold. It maintains that salvation is both forgiveness of sins and universal resurrection. So when a Mormon speaks of salvation by grace, he is usually referring to universal resurrection. But the Bible speaks of salvation as the forgiveness of sins, not simple universal resurrection. Where Mormonism states that forgiveness of sins is not by faith alone, the Bible does teache it is by faith alone. Which is correct? Obviously, it is the Bible.

    Mormonism and the Bible

    In order to justify its aberrant theology, Mormonism has undermined the authority and trustworthiness of the Bible. The 8th article of faith from the Mormon Church states, "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly." This means that when the Bible contradicts Mormonism, the Bible isn't trustworthy.

    The interesting thing is that Joseph Smith allegedly corrected the Bible in what is called The Inspired Version, though it is not used by the LDS church. Though they claim they trust the Bible, in reality they do not. They use Mormon presuppositions to interpret it instead of letting it speak for itself. For example, where the Bible says there are no other gods in the universe (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8), they interpret it to mean "no other gods of this world" - which is not what those verses say. They do not trust the Bible and they often state that the Bible is not translated correctly.

    Conclusion

    Why is Mormonism a non-Christian religion? It is not Christian because it denies that there is only one God, denies the true Gospel, adds works to salvation, denies that Jesus is the uncreated creator, distorts the biblical teaching of the atonement, and undermines the authority and reliability of the Bible.

    CARM does not deny that Mormons are good people, that they worship "a" god, that they share common words with Christians, that they help their people, and that they do many good things. But that isn't what makes someone Christian. Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-23, " Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!" (NKJV). Becoming a Christian does not mean belonging to a church, doing good things, or simply believing in God. Being a Christian means that you have trusted in the true God for salvation, in the True Jesus -- not the brother of the devil, not the god of Mormonism, not the gospel of Mormonism. Mormonism is false and cannot save anyone.
    (more)
  • Common ... Nam Era... 2012/07/01 15:27:54
    Common Sense Conservative
    +1
    Are you a Morman?
  • Nam Era... Common ... 2012/07/01 17:53:18
    Nam Era Vet #1 DNA TLC
    are you?
  • Common ... Nam Era... 2012/07/01 18:10:15
    Common Sense Conservative
    +2
    I am not. So I do not have any idea what each of them believe in. It's within themselves, not me.
  • Nam Era... Common ... 2012/07/01 18:16:39 (edited)
    Nam Era Vet #1 DNA TLC
    +1
    I would never not vote for someone based on religion okay?
    I would never persecute someone for their spiritual beliefs.
    I would never put down someone for their spiritual beliefs unless it is hurting other people.
    That being said:
    I was making a point that by their written and published books and stated beliefs, people can't call themselves "Christian" with those beliefs, according to centuries of our Christian church fathers stated requirements for being a "Christian." That's all.

    This Theologian says it best. >>>
    http://carm.org/is-mormonism-...
  • Common ... Nam Era... 2012/07/01 21:42:23
    Common Sense Conservative
    +1
    They can call themselves whatever they want to call themselves. We don't know what they believe inside.
  • Nam Era... Common ... 2012/07/02 23:47:17
    Nam Era Vet #1 DNA TLC
    Mr. Raiders that> (We don't know what they believe inside.) might be true for the individual, who does not practice true Mormonism. In that case that person would be a Christian and not a Mormon.

    But when a religion puts out written material and publicly speaks about what it believes over a couple of decades. And those beliefs disagree with what I showed that our best Christian minds and apologists say are the most important parts for a religion to be called "Christian" then your statement does not hold water.

    You did not go to the website did you? If you did you would have seen some of our finest Christian apologists.
    http://carm.org/is-mormonism-...

    So with your logic we can call Muslims Christian because they believe like Mormons that Jesus was a prophet and not the third member of the trinity (the Son of God).
  • Common ... Nam Era... 2012/07/03 01:56:11
    Common Sense Conservative
    Let me ask you, how many churches translate readings? You don't have to answer because I already know the answer. 100% of them.
  • Nam Era... Common ... 2012/07/03 02:09:59 (edited)
    Nam Era Vet #1 DNA TLC
    You have ignored the facts and the works of hundreds of church founders of Christianity in your assessment. And you still don't have an understanding of what it means to be "Christian"

    Printed statements of a religions beliefs are something we can base a logical assessment of that religions religious beliefs.
    The founders of Christianity who SPOKE those languages that you say were translated came together and made up the statement of faith that anyone has to have to be a "Christian"

    If you dispute those, then you have just showed that you have no understanding of the history of the church, it's founding fathers, or the tenants of the religion. That means you are never going to understand what I am trying to tell you because you don't know what it means to be a real Christian. I am not trying to insult you. I am saying you need to study what it means to be a "Christian."

    Then you will understand what I am try to say. I learned all this at Kings College and Seminary. So it is not meant to belittle or insult you. I am just saying that many many people do not really know the basic tenants of our faith. And it might be wise to get that knowledge so you might understand better where I am coming from
  • Common ... Nam Era... 2012/07/03 02:14:17
    Common Sense Conservative
    Are you really trying to tell me that I have no understanding of what it means to be a Christian? Because you went to a school, you now think you are more Christian than I am?

    Really!

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