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Levy Report out: what should Israel do?

Temlakos~POTL~PWCM~JLA~☆ 2012/07/12 17:31:17
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The Levy Report started a debate that demands that someone decide.
Only Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel can decide. He is at
heart a politician. So he might not want to decide. But now he must.


The Levy Report in detail

The Levy Report takes its name from Edmond Levy, retired Chief
Justice of the Israel Supreme Court. He headed the “Commission to
Examine the Status of Building in Judea and Samaria.” The Levy Report says:


Judea and Samaria (a/k/a “The West Bank”) are not “occupied
territories” in the classical sense. If anything, Israel got some of its
own land back in the 1967 War. (Jordan seized the land unlawfully in
1950. Before then, the Jews lived in that land for thirty-five hundred
years. Jordan has since renounced its claims.)


  1. The Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 does not apply here. The
    government of Israel has never forced a single Jew to live in that land.
  2. The government of Israel cannot pretend that they did not authorize any given settlement.
  3. The government should make up its mind about letting Jews settle
    there. It should say forthrightly whether it will let them settle or
    not, and where.
  4. Building within bounds of a settlement shouldn’t need a ministry official to let that happen. But the Minister of Defense should sign off on extending the bounds of a settlement.

The rest of the report discusses how to let a settlement expand, what
to do if a settlement didn’t submit a town plan, and how to resolve
conflicting claims to any land.


How Israel and the world reacts

The National Palestinian Authority rejected the Levy Report. This should surprise no one. A spokesman for PA chief Mahmoud Abbas said:


We will not sign any peace agreement if there is a [single] settlement on Palestinian Land.


The problem: what is “Palestinian land”? The PA went on to demand all
of the West Bank territory. (They spoke of “pre-1967 borders,” which
means the Green Line or 1949 Armistice Line.) In that case, the PA
really said that they want to make their land Judenrein, or
“Jew-free.” In case anyone still doubts that, the PA also said that they
want East Jerusalem back as the capital city of a new “Palestinian
state.”


Liberal Jews, in and out of Israel, are afraid to do the obvious thing: annex Judea and Samaria completely. Jonathan Rosen wrote in The Jerusalem Post
that every Israeli government since the Oslo Accords have said that
they wouldn’t let any Jews settle in the region. But the Jews settled
anyway. The government pretended that it never authorized them to
settle.


Legalizing the outposts would put an end to that façade
and would be a slap in the face of the international community,
including Israel’s friends and allies.


That much is true. The Levy Report does tell the government to drop
all pretense that it never let any Jews settle in Judea or Samaria after
the Oslo Accords. Prime Minister Netanyahu set up the Levy Commission,
and now he will have to decide. Does he accept the Levy Report, or not?
Rosen says that Netanyahu will not.


If he does not, then he will be acting like a politician. A statesman would accept the Levy Report and everything that it implies.That includes recognizing Judea and Samaria as belonging to Israel alone.


Trudy Rubin, in The Philadelphia Inquirer, calls
for Netanyahu to do the political thing. She offers two reasons for
this. Both are specious. First, she says that the Israel Defense Forces
would have to stand down and “hand back” the land. The Levy Report
suggests no such thing. Second, she is afraid that admitting 2.5 million
new Arab citizens would let the Arabs outvote the Jews in all of
Israel. She must rely on old demographic projections that simply do not
hold. In fact, Jews would still outnumber Arabs two-to-one, all told.
That ratio is not likely to fall and is more likely to rise.


Knesset Member Tzipi Hotovely wants the government to accept the Levy Report now. She is writing a bill to that effect and will introduce it to the Knesset.


The Edmund Levy report made a very clear legal
statement,” said Hotovely. “It said that every Israeli government can
build anywhere in Judea and Samaria and it said, in a very clear voice,
that this is not conquered land when it comes to international law


She stopped short of calling on the government to annex the land. But
today the Women in Green will open their second annual convention to
ask for exactly that. Yeshiva World News clearly wants
the same thing, though it is afraid that this will not happen. YWN
blamed “successive secular leaders” since Levi Eshkol for putting Israel
where it now sits, Eshkol was Prime Minister during the Six-Day War.


Naftali Bennett, in March of 2012, suggested doing something in-between: annexing only part of the West Bank land. The Oslo Accords divided the West Bank into three “areas,” though only one area is all in one piece:


  1. Area A: the cities of Jenin, Nablus, Ramallah, Jericho, Bethlehem,
    and Hebron, certain areas immediately around them, and another area
    south of Salfit. The PA, and only the PA, patrols those areas.
  2. Area B: villages slightly out from Area A regions. The PA collects taxes there, but the IDF patrols them.
  3. Area C: all the rest. Those are areas of Jewish settlement and
    Israeli administration and control. This is the all-in-one-piece area.

Bennett says that the government should take Area C and leave Areas A and B to a “Palestinian state.” (This map, from the UN humanitarian agency
for the West Bank and Gaza, shows Area C.) 96 percent of “Palestinians”
live in the A and B areas. Area C includes 59 percent of Judea and
Samaria. Bennett would offer full voting rights to the 4 percent of
“Palestinians” living in Area C. Bennett would also let Egypt annex the
Gaza Strip if it wants.


The Bennett plan came out ahead of the Levy Report. No one is talking about it, though the editors of Arutz-7
mentioned it in passing. Those most interested in Biblical, or at least
Old Testament, fidelity, might not want to surrender all those cities
permanently to Arab ownership and control.

So Israel has lots of choices. What should Israel do next?

Read More: http://www.conservativenewsandviews.com/2012/07/12...

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  • FairLady 2012/07/15 16:44:55
    Annex ALL of the West Bank and tell the Arabs to get out.
    FairLady
    +2
    Yeah, it's my belief.
  • zapped 2012/07/13 20:02:09
    Continue as-is
    zapped
    +2
    it's not gonna matter ,,,no one will be happy either way ...!
  • Pedro Doller ~POTL-PWCM~JLA 2012/07/13 07:16:23
    Undecided
    Pedro Doller ~POTL-PWCM~JLA
    +1
    Move Los Angeles to the southern end of the Gaza Strip. Take everyone from the Gaza Strip and move them to a new boarder city on the Sinai. Call that Tijuana. Move San Francisco to Tel Aviv.
  • jean 2012/07/13 02:55:57 (edited)
    Undecided
    jean
    +5
    I personally don't have the answer, but the Israelis should do what is best for Israel. The rest of the world will never be satisfied anyway.
  • Lt. Fred 2012/07/13 01:42:31
    Give up the West Bank completely
    Lt. Fred
    Virtually all of the OP is lies, of course. As with any Israel-Palestinian thread, it will be infected with vast amounts of dishonest or wrongheaded IDF propaganda.

    What is clearly true is that there is a state between Israel and Jordon (and Egypt). That state has territory; that territory cannot be inhabited by illegal immigrants living under a different nation's laws. No nation (not even the US, yes America has illegal immigrants, no they do not live under Mexican law) would accept that, and no nation should. Either the Israeli illegal immigrants leave or they become Palestinian citizens and are ruled according to Palestinian law- since they are in Palestine.
  • Temlako... Lt. Fred 2012/07/14 02:22:58
    Temlakos~POTL~PWCM~JLA~☆
    +2
    That's a malicious, libelous statement. For your information, I am not a member of the Defensive Armies of Israel. Nor is there any longer an auxiliary called Volunteers from Outside the Land, so I could not be a member of that, either. And I don't receive one shekel in compensation from the Ministry of Defense, or any other Ministry of the Republic of Israel.

    But I speak from my understanding of history. Your understanding is totally, completely, absolutely lacking.

    The only reason I am being so charitable with you is that the Terms of Service do not permit me to share the much harsher suspicion that I have of you. And I don't take the liberties with the Terms of Service that you obviously take.
  • Lt. Fred Temlako... 2012/07/14 04:27:37
    Lt. Fred
    Which I'm not suggesting. I'm saying that you're schilling for the IDF, even if they don't pay you. If you want me to point to a half-dozen examples of the worst most obvious wrongheaded thinking or factually incorrect claims in your OP, I'll do that. As far as I'm concerned, that's propaganda.

    {But I speak from my understanding of history. Your understanding is totally, completely, absolutely lacking.}

    No attempt at argument? Mindless insults? Claims to intellectual superiority? Must be a conservative.

    {The only reason I am being so charitable with you is that the Terms of Service do not permit me to share the much harsher suspicion that I have of you. And I don't take the liberties with the Terms of Service that you obviously take.}

    You have absolutely no basis for these absurd lies. Take them back immediately.
  • Temlako... Lt. Fred 2012/07/14 17:41:18
    Temlakos~POTL~PWCM~JLA~☆
    +1
    I refuse. I could cite example after example of posts that you have made that are not only out-of-bounds in polite society (or they should be), but certainly violate the spirit, if not the letter, of the Terms of Service. That I don't is because it is the job of the moderators, not my job, to police the site.

    I don't "shill" for anybody. For you even to suggest such a thing, I regard as violative of the spirit, and perhaps even the letter, of the Terms of Service.
  • Lt. Fred Temlako... 2012/07/14 22:46:33 (edited)
    Lt. Fred
    {I refuse. I could cite example after example of posts that you have made that are not only out-of-bounds in polite society (or they should be), but certainly violate the spirit, if not the letter, of the Terms of Service.}

    I can confidently claim to be one of the most polite commenters on this site. The posts you are claiming are typically given in response to extreme, lengthy (and mindless) provocation.

    {I don't "shill" for anybody.}

    I do actually take this back- the word has a meaning I was not aware of. (According to wiki: "To promote or endorse in return for payment, especially dishonestly.") I'm not saying you're endorsing the IDF product in return for payment- just out of personal prejudice or whatever- but you certainly are doing so dishonestly. I apologise for the (unintended) implication that you were being paid for lying, instead of doing it for free.

    As for 'violations of the Terms of Service', I'd be looking at virtually anyone else on this site.
  • Israel Temlako... 2012/07/20 15:49:27
    Israel
    +1
    Frankly Tem, I would be kicking his butt off this poll right about now if it were my poll. I would also be suing this piece of crappola as well. Frankly why you allow this tosspot to post such defamation, I have no idea. You are a good man Tem.
  • Temlako... Israel 2012/07/20 22:06:14
    Temlakos~POTL~PWCM~JLA~☆
    +2
    It's not my job to police the site. And blocking merely skews my polling results.

    Besides, only by his own words can I show him up.
  • ☆stillthe12c☆ 2012/07/13 01:00:10
    Undecided
    ☆stillthe12c☆
    +2
    My thoughts are that Israel should take all the land and offer full citizenship to the Palestinian.
  • Lt. Fred ☆stillt... 2012/07/13 01:43:44
    Lt. Fred
    Which they're not going to do because Israel would cease to be a Jewish state (which they are obsessed with for some reason).
  • ☆stillt... Lt. Fred 2012/07/13 02:02:03
    ☆stillthe12c☆
    +3
    They tried to tell the people before they left that they needed them and most of the Arabs that live in Israel love it there from what I have read. You never really know until you go there and hear it from them yourself.
  • Lt. Fred ☆stillt... 2012/07/13 03:18:47
    Lt. Fred
    +1
    I'm not sure what the first part means- are you talking about the ethnic cleansing during Al Nakba? But Arabs are reasonably tolerated in Israel, there's only a little discrimination.

    What I'm saying is that Israel will not create a demographic shift where Jews become a minority. The entire point of the state is for Jews to be the majority population.
  • ☆stillt... Lt. Fred 2012/07/13 04:04:47
    ☆stillthe12c☆
    +1
    Yes many of them left under their own terms. I guess many left of fear. The ones that remained were treated fairly after the war. Many were ask to stay. they were need to help start the nation. There are conflicting stories on the history of what happened as well.
    You are correct they would not allow themselves to be come a minority. I can understand that.
  • Lt. Fred ☆stillt... 2012/07/13 05:55:17
    Lt. Fred
    It's important to note that the exodus was ethnic cleansing; the Israelis murdered or raped thousands of people, forcing the rest to flee- though, as always, some left without being forced. None were allowed to come back to their homes- homes that were stolen by the nascent Israeli state and handed to foreign immigrants.
  • ☆stillt... Lt. Fred 2012/07/13 06:13:38 (edited)
    ☆stillthe12c☆
    +3
    It seems that I remember that the only property that was taken was of those who tried to raise up against Israel, but to the victors goes how history is written. I have not read anything about it in many decades. Much of the land was also purchase from them. Yes, they did not want them back. I would not want them back either if someone proclaimed death to Israel. I also remember that at one time they meet every condition that Arafat asked for and he walked away from the table. All they did was reclaim what at one time belonged to them. I will have to read up on the subject when I get a chance.
  • Lt. Fred ☆stillt... 2012/07/13 09:10:53
    Lt. Fred
    {It seems that I remember that the only property that was taken was of those who tried to rose up against Israel,}

    Nope. Anyone who was ethnically cleansed had their house and property stolen.

    {but to the victors goes how history is written.}

    Basically this is an admission that you won't tell the truth.

    {Much of the land was also purchase from them.}

    When?

    { I also remember that at one time they meet every condition that Arafat asked for and he walked away from the table}

    You 'remember' wrong. This simply never happened.
  • ☆stillt... Lt. Fred 2012/07/13 16:14:09
    ☆stillthe12c☆
    No, it is admission that many time what you get is half truths. It was over 40 years ago that I read it I assume that it was sometime in the late 40's and early 50's.

    No, I am not wrong and this did happen. It is you that are in error. I happen to be old enough to remember this one as it happened. Once in the lat 70's and again in 99. He had got everything that he had ask for both times and walked away. He did not want peace he wanted Israel gone,
  • Lt. Fred ☆stillt... 2012/07/13 20:56:30
    Lt. Fred
    That simply never happened. The Israeli government offered unacceptable conditions- the permanent annexation of large and important areas of Palestine, as well as 'temporary'* control over virtually all of the rest of the country, Obviously no country can accept that another country will have legal control over it for decades- imagine if Palestine tried to establish legal control over Israel! Palestine's borders with Jordon would also be controlled by Israel.

    These were not acceptable conditions, so Arafat rejected them. However, he did create a counter-offer (two separate states with borders on the 1967 Green Line) at Taba. Israel even looked like accepting- finally- what virtually the entire world says is the only acceptable basis for peace. But then electoral politics got in the way.

    * A period that would end at Israel's discretion, not according to some set timeline.
  • ☆stillt... Lt. Fred 2012/07/13 21:12:05
    ☆stillthe12c☆
    It would be crazy if Israel didn't control certain area of a defensible border. I really feel like they should not give-up any of the lands that they gained in the war. I would be offering them citizenship and and I would use my troops to maintain the law.
  • Lt. Fred ☆stillt... 2012/07/13 21:31:23
    Lt. Fred
    +1
    Not acceptable. Countries may not obtain territory through war. Israel may ask for their 1967 borders and not an inch more.

    Of course, Israel could annex all of Palestine, But it doesn't want to accept all the Palestinians as full citizens- otherwise it stops being a Jewish nation. So there are two options- an apartheid systems, where Muslims are not full citizens, or ethnic cleansing to force them out of land that is then populated by Jews and annexed. At the moment, the Israelis are trying a bit of both. Neither are acceptable.
  • ☆stillt... Lt. Fred 2012/07/13 21:48:09
    ☆stillthe12c☆
    +1
    It already has many Arabs that are citizens. The quality of life for the Palestinians would improve under Israel.
  • Lt. Fred ☆stillt... 2012/07/13 22:30:57
    Lt. Fred
    Sure, but the Israeli state won't accept any more, for fear of a majority non-Jewish population.
  • ☆stillt... Lt. Fred 2012/07/13 22:40:49
    ☆stillthe12c☆
    You may be correct. I have no idea as to how the would see it. I do know that they had asked many of them to remain when they left. That was at a time when they needed them as they did not have enough fo them to conduct business. They still need a larger tax base at this time. They have all those citizens to support that they have to provide for that their religion says that they must support and not ask them to work. I may be wrong but I think they were of the tribe of Levi.
  • Lt. Fred ☆stillt... 2012/07/13 23:12:28
    Lt. Fred
    {I do know that they had asked many of them to remain when they left.}

    Not only is this not correct, the Israeli state actually forced nearly a million people with the wrong religion to leave.
  • ☆stillt... Lt. Fred 2012/07/13 23:24:49
    ☆stillthe12c☆
    If this was true why do many of them still there today. Were they fringe. I know they had some fights in many of the villages where they had to purge certain people that were attacking them and creating problems. I am relying on old newspaper articles that I read at the time.
    Thank You!
  • Lt. Fred ☆stillt... 2012/07/13 23:53:11
    Lt. Fred
    +1
    {If this was true why do many of them still there today.}

    Events often happen to less than 100% of a targeted group. Just because some Jews survived the Holocaust does not mean it didn't occur; just because some Palestinians remained in Israel does not mean there was no ethnic cleansing.

    {I know they had some fights in many of the villages where they had to purge certain people that were attacking them and creating problems.}

    This is not correct. The IFD murdered or raped innocent people including unarmed civilians in order to create enough terror for a million people to flee.
  • ☆stillt... Lt. Fred 2012/07/14 00:19:37
    ☆stillthe12c☆
    That is very true.

    Show me some evidence of this as I never read anything at the time about any of this. I do know that innocent people were killed and in many cases there were armed people that used them as shields. It is a tactic they use even today. Exploiting both women and children. Most of the people that lived their before were nomads and most did not even have homes from what I read in the past. The land was essentially a desert until the Jews came back.
  • Lt. Fred ☆stillt... 2012/07/14 01:37:29
    Lt. Fred
    {Show me some evidence of this}

    If you care to read virtually anything by Benny Morris- who is actually a major supporter of the IDF's murderous policy- he's neatly catalogued the Israeli state's record of murder and rape. Wikipedia has a summary, but I emphasize that the primary sources are the best for this sort of thing.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    {I do know that innocent people were killed and in many cases there were armed people that used them as shields.}

    Nope, these were premeditated, deliberate killings of unarmed civilians without provocation. The intention was to terrify everyone else into leaving.

    {The land was essentially a desert until the Jews came back.}

    A lie.
  • ☆stillt... Lt. Fred 2012/07/14 02:12:18
    ☆stillthe12c☆
    Thank You, Reading most of the article it appears both sides were pretty ruthless.
  • Lt. Fred ☆stillt... 2012/07/14 04:24:41 (edited)
    Lt. Fred
    True, but the Israelis won- so their crimes had worse long-term effects.
  • ☆stillt... Lt. Fred 2012/07/14 04:37:33
    ☆stillthe12c☆
    +1
    That does not make sense, LOL It is war and bad things happen during wars. I do hold America to a higher standard, but I realize in the heat of battle things happen and people over react. I had a friend that could not adjust after coming back from Vietnam. He wound up sneaking through a window and cutting his neighbors throat. The guy use to slip out in the night in Nam and seek out Vietcong and cut their throats. He signed up to go there 3 times and when it was over he was unable to adjust. I never let the guy out of my sight when he was around. I finally broke off the friendship and never went to see him after I moved. He should have been in a hospital after the war if not before it was over.
  • Lt. Fred ☆stillt... 2012/07/14 04:41:40
    Lt. Fred
    +1
    Indeed. Here's a nasty thought I've had about PTSD: it's very bad, even for people who get medical attention. Imagine how bad it is for Vietnamese, who probably do not have access to mental health care.
  • ☆stillt... Lt. Fred 2012/07/14 05:00:47
    ☆stillthe12c☆
    +1
    They more than likely just kill them and be done with it. I was trying to remember the guy name and I can not. I just put him aside and never think of him until tonight when we were talking about people that are ruthless it reminded me of him. I knew there was something very wrong when he told me how much he enjoyed cutting there throats. That is when I decided that I was not going over to see him anymore. I really should have went to the base and put him on report. I thought they would take care of him at some point.
  • Lt. Fred ☆stillt... 2012/07/14 05:10:43
    Lt. Fred
    That's true.
  • ☆stillt... Lt. Fred 2012/07/14 05:26:50
    ☆stillthe12c☆
    Here is one of my polls if you would like to participate.

    http://www.sodahead.com/unite...
  • Israel ☆stillt... 2012/07/20 17:26:32
    Israel
    +1
    But they would not accept life under Israel. They want the destruction of Israel.
  • Temlako... Israel 2012/07/20 22:10:17
    Temlakos~POTL~PWCM~JLA~☆
    +1
    Yes, and what a shame.

    Actually, a number of Arabs *would* want to stay. And don't forget: ancient Israel had its share of foreigners who willingly accepted membership in the Israelite community. (I recall a young woman who availed herself of the "gleaner laws" to help out her mother-in-law, and even prevailed on the older woman's next-of-kin to marry her to keep the land in the family! Her direct descendant was the greatest king that Israel ever had. Other foreigners even served in the royal army--thus proving that the modern Machal was not the first foreign auxiliary that the Jews ever had.)
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