KSM torture did not stop LA attack

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KSM torture did not stop LA attack

Posted April 23, 2009 17:56:59
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Ever since the revelations that the torture of Abu Zubaydah provided only false leads, conservatives have jumped on a Bush-era memo claiming that torture of KSM stopped an attack in LA. This is false, and easily proven so.

According to the Bush White House, the mastermind of that attack was arrested in February 2002 . They confirmed this again in a fact sheet . All well and good.

KSM was arrested on March 1, 2003 . How is it possible that torture done over a year after plot was broken up and the mastermind was arrested stopped that exact same plot?

(Links stolen from Yglesias: http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/ )

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+8 raves gfreeman~American Atheist~ April 23, 2009 20:11:29

I'm saying that the CIA has perfected time travel.
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+1 raves
Zuggi to Art April 24, 2009 22:35:32 (edited)

Think for your self for once. Think Progress has nothing to do with this. Here are the relevant links. I've unhyperlinked them, as apparently mouseovers are beyond your mental capacity.

1) 2005 CIA memo claims that waterboarding KSM stopped an attack on LA's liberty tower-- CNS, formerly known as Conservative News Service.

http://www.cnsnews.com/public...

2) George Bush's White House says that the attack on LA's liberty tower was stopped when the mastermind was arrested in Feb, 2002.

http://georgewbush-whitehouse...
http://georgewbush-whitehouse...

3) KSM was not arrested until March, 2003, over a year after that plot had been disrupted.

How could information gleaned from this possibly make you think that KSM gave up this plot?
Art to Zuggi April 25, 2009 01:55:05

>Think for your self for once.

I can't...Karl Rove does all my thinking for me.

>How could information gleaned from this possibly make you think that KSM gave up this plot?

Because the CIA has more credibility than a left-wing political website.
+1 raves
Zuggi to Art April 25, 2009 05:05:30

Ignore ThinkProgress. Go to the George Bush White House links. Look at the dates. Do some math.

If reality and your ideology conflict, reality must be wrong, amirite?
let's v... to Zuggi April 25, 2009 16:47:26

deny deny deny deflect deny...you know the drill.
Art to Zuggi April 25, 2009 18:22:11

>If reality and your ideology conflict, reality must be wrong, amirite?

Hmmm...not exactly. If the facts and leftism conflict, I go with reality.

Recent history teaches me leftist lie...BIG TIME lies then accuse the right of telling lies when they are telling the truth. You will understand when I am a bit skeptical right?
+1 raves
Zuggi to Art April 25, 2009 18:23:40

Then please, explain to me how the timeline here works with your version of the facts?
Art to Zuggi April 25, 2009 18:25:34

My version of the facts?

Do you mean the CIA's version?

I don't have a version...I wasn't there.

I won't debate counter-claims just like I won't debate the 9-11 truthers.

If the CIA lied, then your lord and savior Barry should fire them for telling lies...he is after all their boss right?
+1 raves
Zuggi to Art April 25, 2009 18:26:29

I mean the conflict between the CIA version and the Bush White House version.
+1 raves
Art to Zuggi April 25, 2009 18:33:49 (edited)

You sir keep bringing up Bush...I have said the CIA over and over again.

You seem to think I have some blind allegiance to Bush...this is the mistake of your own stereotype.

I am dedicated to American right-wing principles and Judaeo-Christian values.

To the extent that Bush (or any other president including BHO) follow the principles I love, I support them.

Harsh interrogation techniques including doctors-supervised water boarding of 3 terrorists who have information regarding future attacks is consistent with my values.

Shame on you for not doing everything you can to defend innocent human life.
+1 raves
Zuggi to Art April 25, 2009 18:36:26

The Bush briefings were from CIA data. Why would they post-date the capture of the mastermind?

Shame on you for spitting on the honor of the United States of America. We should never torture.
+1 raves
VICTORIA to Zuggi April 25, 2009 18:45:26

Easily understood timeline on Library Tower
http://www.slate.com/id/2216601/

brief history of waterboarding and american policy
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Inv...

minute detailed article of actors and timeline
http://washingtonindependent....

Executive Summary- especially interesting are conclusions on bottom
http://armed-services.senate....
Art to Zuggi April 26, 2009 09:35:46

>Shame on you for spitting on the honor of the United States of America. We should never torture.

No, honors to me for defending innocent Americans. Dishonor is sucking-up to those that want to see America destroyed.
+1 raves
VICTORIA to Art April 25, 2009 18:49:35

It was the CIA interrogation techniques that provided the United States with a training manual to prepare their operatives for capture. The irony is that the U.S. military appears to have done the exact opposite, taking a training program that had been designed to prepare American soldiers to withstand torture by communist regimes seeking to extract false confessions and twisting it into a highly controversial interrogation manual.
Boulder... to Zuggi April 26, 2009 16:47:50 (edited)

Anybody remember what Winston's job was in "1984"? C'mon, Art! Remember? The difference is that Winston knew what he was doing.Art you would do Winston's job blindly without question. Big Brother would be proud of you, and you would never have met Julia!
Boulder... to Art April 26, 2009 16:41:28

Art, did you ever hear of "innocent until proven guilty"? If they are fairly tried and convicted, that's a triumph over the terrorists, no? They said they would destroy us kind of from within, sorta like Khruschev(you know, Capitalism would shrivel and all that), since they don't have a huge military with which to do it . Of course with the Soviets, it was MAD that probably saved us all. No one can keep them from claiming asylum, but it doesn't mean they automatically get it, and being tried in Montana would probably mean a jury that's not too sympathetic (in a prison???!!!! Where did all that come from?) If you were without funds and accused of something, you would be entitled to a court appointed lawyer, and I am sure you would be glad of it, unless you were one of those who defended himself. Those people, as they say, have fools as lawyers. And the ACLU does pro bono work-no need for Hollywood "billionaires" to pay them..
Art to Boulder... April 27, 2009 07:42:18

> If they are fairly tried and convicted, that's a triumph over the terrorists, no?

No, it's a loss. Thousands would gladly go to prison to kill millions of us.

If we lose 3,000 for every 20 willing to go to prison for life then we lose.

>They said they would destroy us kind of from within

That is exactly what liberalism is doing.

>No one can keep them from claiming asylum

Yes, we can...Americans must change our suicidal laws on immigration and asylum.
Boulder... to Art April 28, 2009 17:18:22

Oh, SIGH!!!!! Why waste my energy.......I just want us to keep our respect for what we are supposed to be as America. Our legal system is one of the great triumphs of western civilization. It is an instrument of justice, not revenge and hate. Enough said.
Art to Boulder... April 28, 2009 23:49:39

> It is an instrument of justice, not revenge and hate. Enough said.

So you oppose the political attack by Obama on members of the Bush admin?

Not likely...revenge is OK if the left does it, right?
+1 raves
Zuggi to Art April 29, 2009 01:18:02

Potentially charging and giving people who break the law the full benefit of the legal system isn't revenge. It's fair justice.
-1 raves
Art to Zuggi April 29, 2009 07:04:48

So when do unborn babies get the right to life?