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Joe Paterno loses his winningest coach title because the NCAA removes all his victories from 1998-2011 from the record books. Do you think that's fair?

HarleyCharley 2012/07/23 17:02:51
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No, because...
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  • BrianD3 2012/07/23 17:10:50
    Yes, because...
    BrianD3
    +5
    yes because while earning that record he committed a moral crime and let his friend molest little boys

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  • Charles E 2012/07/25 04:45:54
    Yes, because...
    Charles E
    He allowed and possibly facilitated child abuse in order to win those titles.
    Loosing them is both appropriate and just.
  • Bri Gerich 2012/07/24 22:32:15
    No, because...
    Bri Gerich
    what about the players that won those games. does that mean now they never won a penn state game. dont erase the victories just take his title
  • TheR 2012/07/24 10:31:16 (edited)
    No, because...
    TheR
    I think this whole thing is total BS accusing Joe Paterno and Penn State for covering up acts committed by Sandusky.

    http://deadspin.com/5912516/n...

    Why should he waste his time pursuing Justice by turning in Sandusky? I liken it to Obama who turned his back on continuing the Investigation on 911. Also Bush who closed down the investigation.



    Do we see the Government taking down Obama and Bush Pictures, or statues? No.

    Do we see Bank CEO's being incriminated and have their bank accounts confiscated for cheating the public? No



    Joe Paterno did not have time to mess around with such BS because he had a Football Team to manage. He is an American Icon, and people just want to destroy his reputation.



    Why didn't the people who Sandusky was claimed to abuse come forward and reveal this?



    There are crimes committed all the time that people witness, but why should they jeopardize their time and energy if it happened, while people claimed you knew about it?



    Why is Paterno paying for Sandusky's crime? Why is Penn State paying for Sandusky;s crime?



    Should we all turn our backs on the Lord, because he see's crimes committed everyday? Or does the Lord hope and give the person time who made the transgression, to correct his error on his own? Do we blame a Good Person for knowing something bad ab...



    I think this whole thing is total BS accusing Joe Paterno and Penn State for covering up acts committed by Sandusky.

    http://deadspin.com/5912516/n...

    Why should he waste his time pursuing Justice by turning in Sandusky? I liken it to Obama who turned his back on continuing the Investigation on 911. Also Bush who closed down the investigation.



    Do we see the Government taking down Obama and Bush Pictures, or statues? No.

    Do we see Bank CEO's being incriminated and have their bank accounts confiscated for cheating the public? No



    Joe Paterno did not have time to mess around with such BS because he had a Football Team to manage. He is an American Icon, and people just want to destroy his reputation.



    Why didn't the people who Sandusky was claimed to abuse come forward and reveal this?



    There are crimes committed all the time that people witness, but why should they jeopardize their time and energy if it happened, while people claimed you knew about it?



    Why is Paterno paying for Sandusky's crime? Why is Penn State paying for Sandusky;s crime?



    Should we all turn our backs on the Lord, because he see's crimes committed everyday? Or does the Lord hope and give the person time who made the transgression, to correct his error on his own? Do we blame a Good Person for knowing something bad about someone? That is the question.



    I think not, because the good person is someone who minds their own business, and has faith that their goodness is more valuable than the mire they have to work through each and every day.
    (more)
  • mwg0735 2012/07/24 06:42:52
  • Jericho 2012/07/24 00:21:49
    I think...
    Jericho
    They had to because of the crime, but vacating wins is idiotic. It doesn't change what he did, it just tries to save face in an organization that doesn't need more negative press: The NCAA. I wish it was for the children, but it was more for their rep than anything else
  • darwolf 2012/07/23 21:57:26
    Yes, because...
    darwolf
    +1
    Yes he was covering for a child-molester.
  • Mike J. Hirak 2012/07/23 20:42:48
    No, because...
    Mike J. Hirak
    No way!! This scandal had NOTHING to do with football.
  • boss hawg 2012/07/23 18:42:29
    Yes, because...
    boss hawg
    +2
    he helped cover up those terrible crimes
  • TheBadOne 2012/07/23 18:36:16
    Yes, because...
    TheBadOne
    +2
    ... Reporting a fellow coach to authorities for his role in abusing children is more important than winning a friggin' game.
  • JackSchitt 2012/07/23 18:15:42
    No, because...
    JackSchitt
    So if you were one of his players during that period...your accomplishments have just been wiped out because of his bad judgement.

    You want to ruin his reputation? Fine...tear down his statue, remove the plaques...whatever you feel you need to do to avenge the abused children. But to wipe out the legacy of these players is just pitiful.
  • Charles E JackSchitt 2012/07/25 04:47:14
    Charles E
    The question didn't even mention the players, only Paterno.
  • JackSchitt Charles E 2012/07/25 11:49:01
    JackSchitt
    If the NCAA wipes the victories from the record books, it affects the players on all those teams for those years. It's not like they were caught cheating, shaving points, or illegally recruiting talent.

    Those boys won those games honestly. What Paterno did to protect Sandusky has no bearing on what those boys did to win those games. If PSU had confronted Sandusky and had him arrested in the very beginning, do you think the press would have been SO BAD that these players would have still been turning down offers from Penn State a decade later?
  • Bronar 2012/07/23 18:14:36
    Yes, because...
    Bronar
    +2
    You really need a because....?
  • Ken 2012/07/23 18:05:53
    I think...
    Ken
    He should have been given his day in court.
  • SJG 2012/07/23 17:30:43
    Yes, because...
    SJG
    +4
    He put his 'legacy' and football ahead of the lives of innocent children. Now it's time for the victims to have their days in court!
  • GeorgiaGirl 2012/07/23 17:23:50
    No, because...
    GeorgiaGirl
    I think it's extremely unfair, because it was the players who won those games. What about them? Everyone seems to be hell-bent on punishing the entire school for the horrendous acts of one man.

    What about the students and all the other teachers who make up that school? How is all of this fair to them?
  • Brian ☮ R P ☮ 2012 ☮ 2012/07/23 17:22:33
    I think...
    Brian ☮ R P ☮ 2012 ☮
    Attempting to alter or erase history is foolish at best. Perhaps a footnote as to his despicable nature would better serve reality, and possibly act as a warning.
  • Of Thee I Sing... 2012/07/23 17:19:43
    Yes, because...
    Of Thee I Sing...
    +4
    He was complicit in the molestation and abuse of children.....all to continue his reputation and the reputation of Penn State.
  • jubil8 BN-0 PON 2012/07/23 17:15:31
    I think...
    jubil8 BN-0 PON
    +1
    There ought to be some explanation in the records -- wins are wins, and it's silly to make it look as though Penn State didn't exist for over 10 years.
  • Don Leuty jubil8 ... 2012/07/23 17:40:52
    Don Leuty
    +2
    The ends do not justify the means. The false impression of Penn State being a noble institution attracted talented players that would have not come on board with the facts in evidence. IMO, the punishment handed down by the NCAA was lenient. It should have been doubled.. Were I a Penn State football player, I would not hesitate to abandon the school, whether I was redshirted or not. The fact that players transferring to other school will not be redshirted is most just, for they are victims of the Penn State football program, as well.

    Athletics placed above academics and morality represent a gross distortion of values. College campuses should not be NFL farm teams. The love of the money only corrupts the system. The amount of money in question could almost corrupt a saint.
  • jubil8 ... Don Leuty 2012/07/23 19:25:22
    jubil8 BN-0 PON
    I agree with everything you say, BUT the stats are still facts. You really can't rewrite history. Once you start, it's another VERY slippery slope imo.

    In fact, it seems to me you're saying the end DOES justify the means: Because something despicable happened, years should be erased so nobody knows about it.

    Why isn't it possible to leave the numbers but say the "Winningest" title has been given to someone else? Or put Penn State in a footnote or something?

    I haven't seen any of the revised texts, so maybe it's being handled in a way that satisfies both of us.
  • Don Leuty jubil8 ... 2012/07/23 19:55:43
    Don Leuty
    Declaring a falsehood a statistic does not upgrade it to a fact. Au contrare, mon ami, righting a wrong is the proper means to a just conclusion.

    More than likely the keepers of such statistics will pull a Roger Maris and footnote the 0-win seasons.

    To compound the travesty of all this, Joe died of cancer.
  • jubil8 ... Don Leuty 2012/07/23 20:15:47
    jubil8 BN-0 PON
    There is no falsehood in the fact of the win. There is PERHAPS falsehood in how it was achieved, but that can't be known. PERHAPS Penn State would have done even better without the abuse. The fact that Paterno ignored what Sandusky was doing doesn't alter his success as a coach. It alters his success as a man.

    Righting a wrong isn't right if it creates a different wrong. A footnote is fine with me.

    Why is his dying of cancer a travesty?
  • Don Leuty jubil8 ... 2012/07/23 20:42:11
    Don Leuty
    Think long and hard about it.
  • relic 2012/07/23 17:15:07 (edited)
    Yes, because...
    relic
    +4
    He supported child-molesting at Penn State. What more of a 'reason' would you need?
  • Don Leuty 2012/07/23 17:14:22 (edited)
    Yes, because...
    Don Leuty
    +4
    All this could have been avoided with a simple phone call to the police. His silence condoned sexual abuse of children. Winning football games was a poor choice. Choices have consequences.
  • **Bessie** 2012/07/23 17:12:58
    Yes, because...
    **Bessie**
    +4
    I did not want to believe it was true "what Joe knew", however, it seems he knew more than I originally thought. What a shame he did not do the right thing at the time.
  • BrianD3 2012/07/23 17:10:50
    Yes, because...
    BrianD3
    +5
    yes because while earning that record he committed a moral crime and let his friend molest little boys
  • Dale 2012/07/23 17:10:28
    I think...
    Dale
    +2
    "Fair?" Maybe, maybe not, but then life is not "fair," is it?
  • Tee Quake 2012/07/23 17:08:18
    Yes, because...
    Tee Quake
    +3
    He had to know what was happening and it's a disgrace and terribly sad fo the those abused children many of whom will never recover. I was assaulted bt a pedophile when I was 7 and I never got over the shame. For years I thought it made ME gay. Thank God for women.
  • Jackie G - Poker Playing Pa... 2012/07/23 17:06:02
    Yes, because...
    Jackie G - Poker Playing Patriot
    +4
    Paterno put football before human decency - This is a message to all other coaches
  • HarleyCharley 2012/07/23 17:03:56
    I think...
    HarleyCharley
    +1
    I don't know how they can change history, if they won they won.....
  • **Bessie** HarleyC... 2012/07/23 17:13:40
    **Bessie**
    You do have a point there.
  • Don Leuty **Bessie** 2012/07/23 17:45:27
    Don Leuty
    +1
    Cheating is not winning. Keeping the abuse under wraps allowed the school to recruit players that would have not touched Penn State with a 10-foot pole.
  • **Bessie** Don Leuty 2012/07/23 17:47:47
    **Bessie**
    +1
    You make a great point. Thanks.
  • Don Leuty HarleyC... 2012/07/23 17:42:32
    Don Leuty
    +1
    The does not justify the means.

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