'IT BACKFIRED: COLORADO SHOOTER TRUNS OUT TO BE ACTIVE WITH THE OCCUPY WALL STREET GANG!

I seriously was not taking sides, or did not mean to come across that way. I am foursquare against blind partisanship. And beyond that, I do not believe there are two parties, there is one party that plays a game (for the most part mind you) with the "opposing" party to make it appear to the electorate that they have scruples and champion the issue that those constituents support. I know of few in the Capital Building or who have occupied the White House, who have integrity. They are few and far between and in my opinion do not come necessarily from only one party.

When you mention the protests of the late sixties, you are talking about the anti-war protesters right? Now, I am old enough to remember that and actually hated those long haired, drug-addled hippy types. I was at the time the president of my Young Republican debate team and was passionate that the war was not only necessary but that we were defending democracy for those poor Asians. I campaigned door to door for Nixon in 1968. But I don't recall ever hearing a single accusation of hippies being violent. And as it turned out (according to Robert McNamara, then Sectry of Defense) that there was no attacks on our ships in the Gulf of Tonkin at all, and the lie was devised to get the citizens behind the war. 58,000 of our military and millions of Vietnamese soldiers as well as women and children died for that lie.

That's when I started questioning what our government does and what it tells us. And I began to research for the truth. The internet makes it so much easier.

I'll reply to a couple of your ideas. I don't feel a need to change your mind on anything and besides, it appears we agree on much. However, you say the Communists needed stopping. What we stepped into there was basically a civil war between those in part of the nation that were bent on expelling the colonial power that had been their slave-masters for so long and those who profited from allying themselves with them. The French were not there to save anyone from Communism. And if the right thing to do was to save the nation from Communism, why? And why was it any of our business, to the tune of thousands of dead troops, trillions in treasure and an invasion of a sovereign nation?

I think you may have swallowed at least some of the kool aid that our hegemonic nation has served us. Most people do. I don't know everything and I learn that I've been wrong after the fact quite often. But now I know that I am much less apt to be wrong if I at least question what this government has told me. One is the catastrophe that they call Communism. I would never want to live in a Communist nation, because it does not work obviously and I love the freedoms still left to us in our republic. But what has been the terrible downside to Vietnam going commie as a system of government? There was no domino effect we were warned of. There was a fine president who warned us of these wars.... Dwight David Eisenhower was in the know and had been struggling with the military industrial complex he spoke of. He was afraid to say too much though. He would have ended up like JFK if he had.

I agree with you on our allowing our military to fight to win in Vietnam. But you must be aware of why we dragged that fiasco on so long.... how can the military industrial complex sell their goods if we had pulled out? To me that reinforces the notion that Ike was trying to warn us about. And when we speak of the military industrial complex, we are also speaking of the banking interests who make money off every war and have been for centuries.

Those four government actions you speak of?

No kool aid for me.

We did not invade a sovereign nation, we provided military assistance at their request. Ike provided the first advisors for what was to become the Vietnam War. I already said the mistake was not fighting to win, resulting in thousands of dead, that did not have to die. If the politicians had let our guys fight like they did in WWII, it would have been over in a relatively short period of time.

It was not a civil war, with the exception of a 60 year period when the North conquered the South and then the South drove them out. The North was primarily of Chinese descent and the South was of Cambodian descent. It was an invasion of which you erroneously called the US
presence.

There was no downside to Vietnam going Communist or Laos or Cambodia for that matter. I found a used book that I haven't read, but it said that Thailand was next. It had been written in the 1970s.

I would say that the goal was the Strait of Malacca, luckily they didn't make it.

1. 1963 - JFK said that if we continued to ship jobs out of the US that we would hurt our economy.
2. 1965 - Immigration Reform Act.
3. 1967 - Supreme Court tossed out part of the Immigration and Naturalization Act of 1911 and that allowed for dual citizenship. We have about 45 million dual citizens most of which are from nations hostile to us.
4. 1968 - Government Finance Reform Act. While it makes sense on the surface, it was a disaster. It put all govt revenues into one account and paid all bills out of that account. Part of those revenues were the Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid contributions. Essentially it began the looting of those 3 trust funds.

When the govt says Reform, look out.

First Part.

I didn't turn 18 until late fall 1968. My number was 107 and I knew I was going during the next lottery because I believe they had drawn up to maybe 340 in the previous lottery. I figured if they wanted me, they could invite me, so I waited. They did not break 100 during the next lottery.
I doubt I would have passed a peacetime physical because Uncle Sam was much more particular after the draw down than during combat.

If the Chinese & the North had stayed north of the 17th parallel, there would not have been a war.
We were invited into South Vietnam by the govt after they had been attacked by the North aided by the Soviets and the Communist Chinese.
Whether we belonged there or not is a valid question, but we were not occupiers.
If we had been real occupiers, the victorious North wouldn't have had the need to send about 3 million people from the South into Re-Education camps. Another 1.5 million attempted to flee by rafts that your not be placed of calm pond; have of which ending up swimming with the fish.

If we were not going to fight to win, we should have stayed home, the same as in Korea.

The Japanese attacked us, end of story.
War was declared on Nazi Germany on Dec 9, 1941, I believe. I do not know if those you named had broken any laws or not. If they continued to aid the Nazis after war had been declared, that one you would have to ask FDR why he didn't prosecute.

I'll continue on another comment box.

Ok, I'll take this in parts too. You say we were invited by S. Vietnam by the government. I wonder how close our friendship was to that government. I am more persuaded by our imperialist tendencies coupled with our oft declared concern that communism would just naturally domino all over the rest of the world starting with all of Asia. And so far as being invited in by our friends the leader Diem was installed by the US and the French as a puppet in 1955 and when he got cocky in 63 we had him assassinated. Similar to our modus operandi throughout the history of our empire. So for someone we installed to invite us in is not a salient point in the discussion. France and US did what they did for imperialist (read corporate) profit. Hell, in fact our fascist elements who own our government were the ones who helped Leon Trotsky, Lenin and the boys by financing the Bolshevik Revolution. Communism is and always has been an emotional red herring to gain the acceptance of our hegemony and needless wars around the world. It still works to this day. But not nearly as well as the "Islamofascist threat" works today, And I predict that when that emotional hot button wears thin we will be frightened by Aliens. There always must be a boogie man so we can continue to spend more on our military than the entire rest of the world combined.

If the North had not invaded or threatened to invade the South the French would not have left I surmise. What made the French leave a perfectly good plantation with so many slaves in high positions? And being "invited" by Diem to lend a hand why would we have him assassinated?

So far as FDR and Pearl Harbor are concerned there are many things that make me wonder if what some conspiracy theorist believe that we knew about the attack and left only the old vessels in the harbor while our carriers and newest vessels were all out and about. I don't know though. I need a preponderance of evidence to take a stand on such things. (to be continued)

Second Part.
The laziness of the allies caused them to make poor choices. They looked at Hitler and the Nazis as the cure to evil of Stalin and the Communists. The problem being that the cure (Hitler) was almost as evil as the disease (Stalin).
Churchill's main fear was what the Communists had been doing since the Communist Revolution. Hitler was an unknown quantity in 1933.

Ford and Rockefeller atoned for their sins. Rockefeller donated the land and some money for the UN, which is not solidly anti-American. Ford and the Ford Foundation fund Leftist causes.

You have given yourself away as a hard left Liberal. You are good as you almost had me believing you were not. It is okay to mention Joseph Kennedy, sr, as one who supported the Nazis. He openly supported the Nazis when he was the US Ambassador to the UK. A little something about him damning the Poles for not wanting to surrender to the Nazis. By the Way, Kennedy was a Democrat.

The Nazis had sunk 2 or 3 US ships by the time we declared war. The "Reuben James" was one of them and I can't think of the others.

The Commies had taken over a great number of countries by the mid 1960s and there were more to fall. They had threatened to destroy the US. I would not call it a non-threat. The Moslems like the Commies have also threatened to destroy the US, the Moslem Brotherhood made that decision in the mid 1940s. It seems they took a dislike to our pornography, promiscuity, drug use, movies, freedom of women, and a couple more things that escape me at the moment.

Just because we have some problems with our govt, does not mean that we don't have enemies seeking to destroy us.

Hell, I know that not only did many of our "royal American families" such as Joe Kennedy were only in it for themselves. The Rockefellers were and still are taking the lead in attempting to destroy the sovereignty of our country and all the other nations of the world. The Rockefellers, the Morgans, Astors and Carnegies all used the turmoil after world war one and the shambles inflation and reparations had put Germany in. The wealthy families almost to a man did what they could to make a buck off the misery of Europe. Our banks invested in loans to the Reich and IG Farben, the largest industrial force in Germany and probably all of Europe, the major engine of the German war material machine.

And you say I "have no idea what the Rockefellers did to help Hitler"? The hell I don't. I don't think you have a clue yourself the extent of American corporations and financial institutions in establishing Hitler to power even before he took over in 33. And during Germany's build up from devastating inflation and unemployment the US banking cartels, the same ones still controlling the world to this day, were aiding Hitler to bring his crippled country from the depths of bankruptcy and insolvency to the most formidable power militarily the world had ever seen. How do you think Germany made such a miraculous transformation in such a short time? It was done with the support and connivance of JP Morgan, Union Bank, Brown Brothers Harriman, General Electric, Ford and General Motors, Standard Oil (Rockefellers), IBM and the who's who of finance and industry from America.

You can continue to whistle past the graveyard as you have been doing, pretending you've got a handle on history and are a patriot but if you have such a limited knowledge of history as you proved above challenging me about the Rockefellers and Hitler, then right here in front of your friends you are going to going to embarrass yourself and disappoint them and your detractors are going to know just how ignorant you are of the facts.

One parting embarrassment to you that I have saved for last... one of the vilest treasonous families in America was involved in aiding Hitler through Union Bank and Brown Brothers Harriman. Do you know of whom I speak? Your hero George W Bushes grandfather, Prescott Bush was dealing with the enemy lending money to put Germany on a war-footing. Yes, in the run up to the war and even into early 1942 before those traitors were stopped and the funds in the bank were confiscated until well after the war when in (I believe) 1952 Prescott Bush had millions returned to him with not so much as an indictment for his war crimes. Look all these things up and then come back and respond as if you already had the knowledge. I'll go toe-to-toe with my personal knowledge vs your copy paste.