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Is there ANY evidence, OUTSIDE OF THE BIBLE, of the existence of Jesus Christ, written while Jesus was supposedly alive, and where is it?

StupidGreedyRightWingButtKisser 2012/06/25 00:42:49
Yes. It is ____________
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  • Clay Slayer 2012/06/25 00:50:46
    No.
    Clay Slayer
    +8
    Cases for Christ's existence have been made by some but never hold up to a simple fact check as shown below. Historically speaking the absolute lack of evidence for a figure of the said time period means one of two things; the figure was very insignificant or did not exist. As it stands there is absolutely no historical evidence for the figure Jesus of Nazareth, son of Joseph, thus there is no reason to suggest he ever existed.

    The reference to Jesus in "The Passing of Peregrinus" is describing what Christians believe in, it is NOT suggesting that these beliefs were true. The Passing of Peregrinus is also a satire, a work of fiction.

    • Lucian was a satirist, not a historian
    • Lucian was not born until 125 CE • Publius Cornelius Tacitus
    The reference to Jesus in "Annals XV.44" is describing what Christians believe in, it is NOT suggesting that these beliefs were true. Tacitus goes on to call this belief about Christus a "pernicious superstition."

    • Tacitus was not born until 56 CE
    • Annals XV.44 was not written until 115 CE • Suetonius
    Chapter 25 of a biography titled "The Life of Claudius" has one line that mentions "Chrestus" which is NOT a reference to Jesus Christ. This passage is also set during 50 CE, twenty years after Jesus' supposed death.

    • Suetonius was not...




    &&




































    Cases for Christ's existence have been made by some but never hold up to a simple fact check as shown below. Historically speaking the absolute lack of evidence for a figure of the said time period means one of two things; the figure was very insignificant or did not exist. As it stands there is absolutely no historical evidence for the figure Jesus of Nazareth, son of Joseph, thus there is no reason to suggest he ever existed.

    The reference to Jesus in "The Passing of Peregrinus" is describing what Christians believe in, it is NOT suggesting that these beliefs were true. The Passing of Peregrinus is also a satire, a work of fiction.

    • Lucian was a satirist, not a historian
    • Lucian was not born until 125 CE • Publius Cornelius Tacitus
    The reference to Jesus in "Annals XV.44" is describing what Christians believe in, it is NOT suggesting that these beliefs were true. Tacitus goes on to call this belief about Christus a "pernicious superstition."

    • Tacitus was not born until 56 CE
    • Annals XV.44 was not written until 115 CE • Suetonius
    Chapter 25 of a biography titled "The Life of Claudius" has one line that mentions "Chrestus" which is NOT a reference to Jesus Christ. This passage is also set during 50 CE, twenty years after Jesus' supposed death.

    • Suetonius was not born until 41 CE
    • "The Life of Claudius" was not written until 115 CE • Pliny the Younger
    The reference to Jesus in Pliny the Younger's writings corresponding with the emperor Trajan is describing what Christians in Asia Minor believe in, it is NOT suggesting that these beliefs were true.

    • Pliny the Younger was not born until 61 CE • Flavius Josephus
    The Antiquities of the Jews is NOT based on historical events. Right in the preface Josephus tells us that the history he is writing about is based on Hebrew scriptures and religious books. Hence why Jesephus' Antiquities not only mentions Jesus but also describes God's creation of the earth, Adam & Eve, Noah & the flood, the Tower of Babel, the 10 Plagues, and the parting of the sea.

    "Now I have undertaken the present work, as thinking it will appear to all the Greeks worthy of their study; for it will contain all our antiquities, and the constitution of our government, as interpreted out of the Hebrew Scriptures." "I shall now betake myself to the history before me, after I have first mentioned what Moses says of the creation of the world, which I find described in the sacred books after the manner following." - Antiquities of the Jews -- Preface

    • Josephus was not even born until 37 CE
    • Antiquities of the Jews was not written until 94 CE
    • Antiquities of the Jews is based on religious texts, not history.
    • Josephus was an orthodox Jew and never believed in a savior named Jesus Christ • He Was Influential
    Just because a figure is influential does not suggest they existed, all mythological gods were very influential. Like some Christians many followers of other gods were willing to die for what they thought was true. The terrorists of 9-11 died for the influential lie about 72 virgins in paradise. • We can't know if anyone existed that long ago
    The absolute lack of historical evidence for Jesus Christ is obviously a major problem for anyone looking for a reason to think he actually existed. To ignore this problem apologists claim that we cannot expect to have any evidence for a person who lived that long ago. That claim is far from true. The 1st century was a well documented time and we have a great deal of historical evidence for figures who actually existed.

    Take Julius Caesar for example. We have writings by him, and writings about him by both friends and enemies written during his life time. We have contemporary sculptures and other artwork depicting his image and various artifacts confirming his life and death. We have a known year of birth and a known day of death. We have a rather complete history of Caesar yet no such evidence is found in relation to Jesus Christ, who is said to have lived decades later. We don't even have a known last name for Jesus. • Shroud of Turin
    The Shroud of Turin is a forgery. After independent analysis by the University of Arizona, Oxford, and Swiss Federal Institute of Technology all results date the shroud to be from between 1260 and 1390 CE. Besides, even if it was from the wrappings of a dead body during the 1st century this would still not be evidence that Jesus Christ existed. It would only be evidence that a person died during the 1st century. • Letters to Abgarus
    The "Letters of Abgarus and Jesus" claimed by some apologists to be written by Jesus to the Abgar V are taken as forgeries, not authentic, by historians. The known copies of these letters were written long after the time Jesus supposedly lived. Also the letter forged as Jesus mirrors passages from the Diatessaron (c. 150-160 CE) and not the earlier versions of the gospels. • The Talmud
    Some apologists claim that the Talmud (c. 200-500 CE) is evidence that even non-Christians claimed Jesus existed. Despite claims by Josh McDowell there is NO specific reference to Jesus anywhere in the Talmud and there is no denying that its authors didn't believe in Jesus' messiahship or divinity. • The Gospels
    The gospels are not eyewitness accounts and were written 36-65 years after Jesus' supposed death. None of the writers claim to be eyewitnesses, Matthew is written completely in third person (e.g. Matthew 9:9), and the author of John claims he is not the disciple John (John 21:24). The followers of Jesus were Aramaic speaking peasants from Galilee, lower class men that are not educated and could not have written the gospels in Greek. All the gospels were written anonymously and the names Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were simply applied to the unnamed writings by later readers and named after characters in the stories.
    Acts 4:13 even says Peter and John were uneducated and ignorant men. • Jesus Family Tomb
    Some claim a tomb found in Talpiot is the tomb of Jesus and his family because two of the ten ossuaries contain the names "Jesua, son of Joseph" and "Mariamene e Mara." Mary, Joseph, and Jesua were very common names in 1st century Israel so there is nothing significant about the inscriptions. Even most apologists agree that there is no reason to think this tomb is related to Jesus Christ particularly since it was the tomb of a wealthy family that was not from Nazareth. • Oral Tradition
    Some apologists claim that there is no contemporary evidence for Jesus because during that time people only shared stories verbally. It is true, there was an oral tradition among story tellers and the sharing of stories. Historians on the other hand documented events as they occurred. If Jesus was a historical figure and not just a character in a story there would be contemporary writings about him.





    In the decades around 1CE it was quite common for regular humans to have followers and be worshiped as the savior predicted by scriptures. It would be no big deal if there was evidence to suggest that Jesus was an actual person with a following like many of the other alleged saviors and miracle workers. However, as described below, there are several reasons to suggest that Jesus was not an actual historic figure which would explain why there is no record of him or his supposed following.

    Paul Created Jesus
    It is clear from a comparison of history and Paul's writings that Jesus was not a historical figure but rather a figure of Paul's imagination. History shows us that prior to Paul there is no mentioning or awareness of Jesus and that all later stories of Jesus are derived from areas where Paul made his stories known. Paul in his writings tells us that his knowledge of Jesus is based on his interpretation of scripture and not from another person. He also tells us that no one, aside from those who gained their knowledge from scripture, knew of the events related to Jesus until he personally shared the story with the public.
    » Learn More
    "Historical Jesus"
    Although Jesus was not originally based on a real person some later aspects were. Certain stories in the Gospels suggest that some aspects of Jesus' life were loosely inspired by legends of an actual person or persons. Historians have dubbed this person(s) "Historical Jesus" because an actual name is not known. Outside of scripture there is nothing to suggest that this person(s) existed but certain scriptural writings about Jesus, such as the resurrection story, sound more like they were based on a real life regular human being than a demi-god figure.
    » Learn More
    Disagreements In the Gospels
    Even though the gospels were not written independently of each other they still contain various discrepancy. Many contradictions are related to simple details such as the color Jesus' robe and who or what as at his tomb. Other contradictions are more dramatic such as Luke and Matthew placing the story of Jesus' birth during two separate historical events that are 10 years apart. It is these sort of minor and dramatic discrepancies that we would not see in historical documentations of a real person and exactly what we would expect to see if the stories are just retellings of mythology and legends.
    » Learn More
    Christian Apologists
    Apologists exist because Jesus didn't. If there actually were historical evidence for Jesus Christ then Christians would look to historians to support their claims. There would be no need for the existence of Christian apologists like Josh McDowell and Lee Strobel who make up claims despite historical evidence to give people what they want to hear, not what is true. Such apologists make a great deal of money selling such books while taking advantage of their followers. To the left are rebuttals to a few dishonest claims that apologists make a living off of.
    » Learn More
    (more)

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Opinions

  • Carl 2012/06/26 00:55:50
    Yes. It is ____________
    Carl
    Josephus' writings.
  • StupidG... Carl 2012/06/26 00:59:57
    StupidGreedyRightWingButtKisser
    +5
    no. he was born later, after Jesus supposedly lived, but thank you.
  • Soojin StupidG... 2012/06/26 01:16:32
    Soojin
    +1
    Not only that, but scholars generally agree that at least part of that passage was a forgery.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
  • Jack 2012/06/25 22:51:33
    Yes. It is ____________
    Jack
    Jesus's existence is well documented, in sources too numerous to mention. The only debate is whether or not he was the son of God.
  • StupidG... Jack 2012/06/25 23:15:18
    StupidGreedyRightWingButtKisser
    +3
    apparently real sources are too few to mention because no one can find any.
  • Soojin Jack 2012/06/26 01:14:24
    Soojin
    +4
    Too numerous to mention? Nobody's asking for all of them. How about one?
  • Joe Shwingding BN-ZERO 2012/06/25 22:17:18
    No.
    Joe Shwingding BN-ZERO
    +5
    nope. No evidence
  • All American 2012/06/25 21:23:27
    No.
    All American
    +3
    There's no evidence in the Bible either, it's just anecdotal.
  • Chewy 2012/06/25 21:20:53
    No.
    Chewy
    +4
    Jesus...LOL! Jesus is a construct
  • prayer warrior 2012/06/25 18:33:18
    Yes. It is ____________
    prayer warrior
    Well we must ask did the people who were named as part of Jesus life exist. There was reference to different events that took place when they say Jesus was alive. Here is a link

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=...



    http://www.google.com/url?sa=...
  • StupidG... prayer ... 2012/06/25 21:53:30
    StupidGreedyRightWingButtKisser
    +1
    The links are not working.
  • prayer ... StupidG... 2012/06/26 03:51:23
    prayer warrior
    +1
    ok sorry will try again
  • Racefish 2012/06/25 18:18:29
    No.
    Racefish
    +2
    I would have to say if anything did still exist, it would have been in the archives of the Roman courts and the second Temple. However, since both of these no longer exist, the hope of finding any evidence would be nil.
  • elijahin24 2012/06/25 17:39:32
    No.
    elijahin24
    +3
    Inevitably someone will bring up Josephus or Suetonius; but they don't "prove" anything.
    There are no surviving copies of the writings of Josephus, and the oldest transcripts of it have been held for years by the Roman Catholic Church. It's hardly credible. on this topic.
    Suetonius is more credible; however his only mention of Jesus is of the crucifixion of a Jewish rabble-rouser, by that name. He doesn't discuss his teachings, or any miracles. There isn't even any evidence that it is the same "Jesus"; because that name (Yeshua in Hebrew) was a very common name.
  • StupidG... elijahin24 2012/06/25 21:52:51
    StupidGreedyRightWingButtKisser
    +3
    Plus neither of them were alive when Jesus supposedly lived.
  • elijahin24 StupidG... 2012/06/25 22:04:55
    elijahin24
    +3
    Also true, although some say that Josephus was, but it's pretty unlikely.
  • ScottyG - Faqueue 2012/06/25 16:27:03
    Yes. It is ____________
    ScottyG - Faqueue
    +1
    According to this site there is. http://www.gotquestions.org/d...

    But then again, it's just another internet site. I have learned not to believe anything I read on the internet unless it's fact checked by many sites.

    Even then, I still hold my opinion in question until I see undeniable proof.

    A good example is SH. Even when you show facts and proof to people over and over again, it get's denied by those who are never wrong.

    Guess what? It's OK to be wrong once in a while.
  • America... ScottyG... 2012/06/25 22:20:46
    American☆Atheist
    +1
    What proof?
  • ScottyG... America... 2012/06/25 22:22:12
    ScottyG - Faqueue
    +1
    Check the hyperlink. That blue thing above.
  • Soojin ScottyG... 2012/06/26 01:23:43
    Soojin
    +1
    It's silly to not trust "the Internet". The Internet is fully of information, and lots of it is accurate. The difficult part is in finding which sources are trustworthy and which ones are not. Any blogs, political organizations, religious websites, etc. are going to be hard to trust. However, university pages, scientific organizations, historical societies, and the like have lots of great information.

    It requires a certain self-honesty and open-mindedness to do honest research because we all tend to want to confirm our previously held beliefs. But it's certainly possible.
  • jonatha... Soojin 2013/01/28 06:44:37
    jonathan.drouin.75
    +1
    Even university pages, scientific organizations, historical societies and the likes can provide false information.
  • Mark 2012/06/25 14:08:35
    Yes. It is ____________
    Mark
    +1
    In the writings of Josepheus
  • StupidG... Mark 2012/06/25 14:57:07
    StupidGreedyRightWingButtKisser
    +3
    no. he was born later, after Jesus supposedly lived, but thank you.
  • elijahin24 Mark 2012/06/25 17:40:51
    elijahin24
    +3
    The oldest transcripts by Josephus, were copied years after his death, and have been held by the Roman Catholic Church. Not really credible.
  • Tony 2012/06/25 12:53:08
    Yes. It is ____________
    Tony
  • irish 2012/06/25 12:24:18
    No.
    irish
    +3
    nope,not a one!
  • Maynard 2012/06/25 11:47:51 (edited)
    Yes. It is ____________
    Maynard
    Yes, the PEOPLE who passed down the EYE WITNESS accountes of events that happened.

    EXAMPLE?

    A Muslim called my house recently and said,

    "I am at the spot were Jesus walked on water."



    Not kidding, TRUE.
  • elijahin24 Maynard 2012/06/25 17:41:19
    elijahin24
    +1
    Not credible.
  • America... Maynard 2012/06/25 22:21:16
    American☆Atheist
    What about people who witness UFOs?
  • kmay 2012/06/25 11:39:04 (edited)
    Yes. It is ____________
    kmay
    google 'Historical Jesus'
  • StupidG... kmay 2012/06/25 14:57:53
  • kmay StupidG... 2012/06/26 15:25:25
    kmay
    Did you read any of the actual history? Did you research it at the library?
  • StupidG... kmay 2012/06/27 11:07:27
    StupidGreedyRightWingButtKisser
    I did not find the information I am looking for.
  • kmay StupidG... 2012/06/27 11:28:46 (edited)
    kmay
    If you don't have faith you will never find it.
  • StupidG... kmay 2012/06/27 11:53:09
    StupidGreedyRightWingButtKisser
    +1
    that's stupid. real evidence doesn't care whether you have faith in it or not.
  • kmay StupidG... 2012/06/29 11:19:04
    kmay
    Wrong.
  • StupidG... kmay 2012/06/29 13:28:17
    StupidGreedyRightWingButtKisser
    so if you have faith that a blue ball is red, if you have faith that it's red, then it's red?
  • kmay StupidG... 2012/06/29 16:58:00
    kmay
    You have to have faith in the science or you will never believe the facts.
  • StupidG... kmay 2012/06/30 04:53:37
    StupidGreedyRightWingButtKisser
    truth be told there's no such things as red and blue, just wavelengths we perceive as red and blue. so ha. lol
  • kmay StupidG... 2012/07/08 12:06:35
    kmay
    Please....

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