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Is The SuperPAC Ad Regarding The Consequences of Bain Capital's Driving A Steel Plant Out of Business Fair?

ProudProgressive 2012/08/09 18:56:10
Yes It's Fair.  The Facts are the Facts.
No It's Unfair.  It was just a coincidence.
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Ever since the Supreme Court legalized buying American elections with their decision in the Citizens United case, Americans have been subjected to a flood of ads from so-called Super PACs. The majority of these ads have been designed to attack President Obama and further the candidacy of Mitt Romney, and numerous ads have been condemned for their inaccuracies, like ads that falsely claim that the President wants to eliminate the work requirements for welfare recipients, false claims that the President wants to restrict military voting, and the Breitbartesque classic, distorting the President's own words to falsely claim that the President does not believe that a business owner built his own business.

There have also been ads coming from Super PACs that support President Obama, though far less in number and far closer to reality. A recent ad which describes the impact Bain Capital's destruction of an American business had on real human beings has been getting a lot of press coverage lately, with the Right Wing Media falsely claiming that the ad accuses Mitt Romney of being responsible for a woman's death.

Do you think this ad is fair or not? Please watch the ad and then comment if you wish.



(Video courtesy YouTube)
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  • themadhare ~IJM 2012/08/09 19:50:54
    No It's Unfair. It was just a coincidence.
    themadhare ~IJM
    +27
    Their use of innuendo doesn't get them off the hook. They are tying the wife's death to Ronmey's economic decision; there is nothing false about the media's declaration that they are doing so.

    The plant was closed for predominantly technological reasons. Open hearth, forced air plants were being replaced by newer forced oxygen steel mills, mostly in Japan and other Asian countries.

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  • jean 2012/08/10 20:35:22
    No It's Unfair. It was just a coincidence.
    jean
    +8
    It is just the usual distraction stuff to cover for Owebama's outsourcing jobs. OBAMA OUTSOURCED STIMULUS MONEY
  • mich52 jean 2012/08/11 00:28:22
    mich52
    +2
    Still trying to pass this off as Obama outsourcing I see..

    How does giving stimulis to a US company (Cree) who decides to use it to build a factory in China Obama's problem?

    How does giving stimulis to a US subsidairy (Eurus) who used it to build a wind farm in TX. outsourcing?
  • jean mich52 2012/08/11 07:22:41
    jean
    +6
    Owebama has outsourced our so-called stimulus money. THANK YOU OWEBAMA - now we get to pay it back with interest.
  • ProudPr... jean 2012/08/11 13:32:29
    ProudProgressive
    +2
    Stop lying. It's unbecoming, even for you.
  • jean ProudPr... 2012/08/11 18:56:59
  • ProudPr... jean 2012/08/11 19:57:45
    ProudProgressive
    +2
    Keep trying, but next time, try facts. These Right Wing fantasies get a little tiresome after a while. No, the Obama Administration did not give $29 billion of our tax dollars to companies in foreign countries. On the other hand, Mitt Romney DID give thousands of American jobs, Like Joe Soptic's, to foreign countries.
  • jean ProudPr... 2012/08/11 20:00:46
    jean
    +3
    WE ALREADY SAW HOW JO SOPTIC LIED about his insurance - try something else!
  • ProudPr... jean 2012/08/11 20:04:17
    ProudProgressive
    +2
    Mr. Soptic didn't lie about anything. He lost his insurance coverage because of Mitt Romney's greed. That's a FACT. The meager insurance available to his wife, which wouldn't have covered most of the treatment she needed anyway, was too expensive for them to maintain in the absence of the coverage that was destroyed so Mitt could buy another dressage horse. No one except the Right Wing Media is suggesting that Mitt is responsible for Mrs. Soptic's death, but no one can deny that Joe Soptic's life, along with thousands of other hard working Americans, was destroyed by the greed of Mitt Romney and Bain Capital.
  • jean ProudPr... 2012/08/11 20:05:49 (edited)
    jean
    +3
    Joe Soptic, the laid-off steel worker who publicly blamed Mitt Romney for his wife’s 2006 death after a company Bain Capital owned went bankrupt years after Romney left Bain, chose not to insure his wife at his next job as a custodian.



    Soptic, who appeared on an Obama campaign conference call and in an Obama campaign commercial earlier this year, then in a television commercial produced by the pro-Obama Super-PAC Priorities USA this month, implied that losing his insurance after being laid off from GSA Steel caused his wife’s death.

    Bain bought GSA Steel in 1993. Romney left Bain to work on the Salt Lake City Winter Olympics in 1999. The plant closed in 2001. Sopic’s wife Ilyona had insurance through her own employer until at least a year after Sopic lost his job. She was diagnosed with cancer and died in 2006. Sopic now says he doesn’t blame Romney for his wife’s death. That not what the Obama ad says, and it’s not what he said on the conference call.

    This morning, we’ve learned that Soptic decided to pay other bills rather than purchase health insurance, a decision that would get him fined under Obamacare.

    Mr. Soptic said that after he lost his job, he found work as a school custodian about six months later and had the option to put her on his insurance plan. But he opted not to...







    Joe Soptic, the laid-off steel worker who publicly blamed Mitt Romney for his wife’s 2006 death after a company Bain Capital owned went bankrupt years after Romney left Bain, chose not to insure his wife at his next job as a custodian.



    Soptic, who appeared on an Obama campaign conference call and in an Obama campaign commercial earlier this year, then in a television commercial produced by the pro-Obama Super-PAC Priorities USA this month, implied that losing his insurance after being laid off from GSA Steel caused his wife’s death.

    Bain bought GSA Steel in 1993. Romney left Bain to work on the Salt Lake City Winter Olympics in 1999. The plant closed in 2001. Sopic’s wife Ilyona had insurance through her own employer until at least a year after Sopic lost his job. She was diagnosed with cancer and died in 2006. Sopic now says he doesn’t blame Romney for his wife’s death. That not what the Obama ad says, and it’s not what he said on the conference call.

    This morning, we’ve learned that Soptic decided to pay other bills rather than purchase health insurance, a decision that would get him fined under Obamacare.

    Mr. Soptic said that after he lost his job, he found work as a school custodian about six months later and had the option to put her on his insurance plan. But he opted not to, he said, because he could not afford the more than $350 monthly premium on the $25,000 salary he was making, on top of paying his mortgage and a daughter’s college tuition. Ilyona Soptic was diagnosed with cancer in 2006 and died that year.

    $350? How much was the payment for your car or cars? How much is your cable bill? How much is your cell phone bill. Your daughter couldn’t have deferred a year or gotten a job and paid $350 a month of her own way? Now it’s everyone else’s fault, especially a guy who had already moved on?

    People make bad decisions like this all the time. You look back and regret them. You wish you could change them. You sometimes even blame other people for them. Those things don’t make Sopic a villain. However, it takes a special kind of scumbag like Barack Obama, Obama’s deputy campaign manager Stephanie Cutter and Priorities USA strategist Bill Burton, to exploit those confused feelings for political gain.

    Cutter says that the campaign and Priorities USA did not coordinate pushing this guy’s misleading and questionable story, but he’s wearing the same shirt in both television ads. Cutter now says she doesn’t know the specifics of his story, even though she led a conference call where he told the story a few months ago. These people are lying, vicious, dirty scumbags.

    edited to correct SOPIC TO SOPTIC
    (more)
  • ProudPr... jean 2012/08/11 20:08:12
    ProudProgressive
    +2
    Soptic has not blamed Romney for his wife's death. That's a creation of the Right Wing Media. He's blaming Bain Capital for ruining his life, which is a fact.

    What is it about right wingers like you that even the unnecessary deaths of hard working Americans caused entirely by corporate greed won't shake you from your obsession to destroy this entire nation just to deny the black guy the second term he has more than earned?
  • jean ProudPr... 2012/08/11 20:09:34
    jean
    +1
    The "black guy" is INCOMPETENT!
  • ProudPr... jean 2012/08/11 20:23:29
    ProudProgressive
    +2
    President Obama has accomplished more good for this nation in three and a half years than almost every one of his predecessors did in eight.
  • Jack Sprat ProudPr... 2012/08/11 21:47:24
    Jack Sprat
    +2
    Oddly for the wrong countries though.


  • Jack Sprat jean 2012/08/11 21:45:48
    Jack Sprat
    +1
    With potential legal consequences for the "swiss miss" who was on the phone call saying Heeere's Joe, and Joe's Heeeere's Stephanie Cutter. I'm sure PeePee hasn't bothered listening to Joe 'N Seph's phone call from May, they'd hear the lie....like the fact that even the Wrong House used Joe in a May Campaign add, apparently Steph was out on drugs that day.

    Oh here's Steph at 1:31 of the tape the lying Obambot.


  • mich52 jean 2012/08/11 14:39:22
    mich52
    +1
    I think your own ad says you're wrong...
  • jean mich52 2012/08/11 18:56:34
    jean
    +2
    OUTSOURCING OUR STIMULUS MONEY!

    OBAMA OUTSOURCING JOBS
  • ProudPr... jean 2012/08/11 19:58:44
    ProudProgressive
    +2
    He hasn't "outsourced" any of our stimulus dollars.

    But if you're so unhappy about the stimulus, then please pay the taxes that you SAVED as a result of the tax CUTS contained in the stimulus package.
  • jean ProudPr... 2012/08/11 20:01:55
    jean
    +3
    I am unhappy that I (AND MY CHILDREN) have to pay back the money, with interest, that was outsourced to OTHER COUNTRIES!
  • ProudPr... jean 2012/08/11 20:05:09
    ProudProgressive
    +1
    No money was outsourced to other countries, jean. Try to keep up.
  • jean ProudPr... 2012/08/11 20:06:46
  • ProudPr... jean 2012/08/11 20:09:23
    ProudProgressive
    +1
    Yes I saw it the first hundred times you posted it. It's as much bullsh*t now as it was the first time.

    Try reality once in a while. I know it will scare you, what with all them black people and muslims actually having basic human rights, but you'll get used to it eventually.
  • jean ProudPr... 2012/08/11 20:11:35
    jean
    +1
    LOL - I live with "them" each and every day - UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL!
  • ProudPr... jean 2012/08/11 20:24:54
    ProudProgressive
    +1
    And yet you're as ready to deny them their equal rights and throw them in the gutter as your candidate is. Go figure. I guess this is one of those Donald Trump "I have a wonderful relationship with 'the blacks'" moments.
  • Jack Sprat ProudPr... 2012/08/11 21:54:00
    Jack Sprat
    +1
    You are absolutely pathetic and without any, any moral compass, you pathetic piece of liberal/progressive non-funtional "intelligence". You see color as 'them and us', Jean and I see only them and us.

    You have no shame.
  • jean ProudPr... 2012/08/12 00:36:44
    jean
    +1
    I not only have a relationship with blacks but "they is us"!
  • Jack Sprat jean 2012/08/11 21:51:33
    Jack Sprat
    +1
    Isn't the liberal racist pathetic?
  • jean Jack Sprat 2012/08/12 00:46:36
    jean
    +1
    What else can they say Jack?
  • Live Fr... jean 2012/08/12 00:49:46
    Live Free Or Die
    Do you have any proof that any or all of the stimulus money went overseas, as you claim?
  • jean Live Fr... 2012/08/12 01:01:19
    jean


    Sununu: “The outsourcing issue really causes two problems for President Obama. One: It underscores his dishonesty. The ad they were running – which all the independent fact-checking groups have said is dishonest – ends with President Obama saying “I’m President Obama and I approve this message.“ It should say, “I’m President Obama and I approve this dishonest message.” And the second problem he has with outsourcing is that there is a huge amount of outsourcing which was driven by Obama policy. The money – the $500 million they gave to FISKAR – created jobs in Finland. The solar energy grants they gave created jobs in Mexico. The wind turbine grants they gave created jobs in Denmark. So, the point that I think is really interesting is that the outsourcing issue underscores how few smarts there are in this White House and in this Obama campaign – that they expose themselves to the response criticism that I think – unlike what Mr. Cilliza said – is going to end up making this a winning issue for Mitt Romney.

    Mitchell: Isn't it a winning issue for the White House, fundamentally, granted that the PolitiFact folks and the Washington Post pointing out that the President's campaign ad on that issue had a lot of questions and a lot of questionable attacks?

    Sununu: But they said it was wr...






























    Sununu: “The outsourcing issue really causes two problems for President Obama. One: It underscores his dishonesty. The ad they were running – which all the independent fact-checking groups have said is dishonest – ends with President Obama saying “I’m President Obama and I approve this message.“ It should say, “I’m President Obama and I approve this dishonest message.” And the second problem he has with outsourcing is that there is a huge amount of outsourcing which was driven by Obama policy. The money – the $500 million they gave to FISKAR – created jobs in Finland. The solar energy grants they gave created jobs in Mexico. The wind turbine grants they gave created jobs in Denmark. So, the point that I think is really interesting is that the outsourcing issue underscores how few smarts there are in this White House and in this Obama campaign – that they expose themselves to the response criticism that I think – unlike what Mr. Cilliza said – is going to end up making this a winning issue for Mitt Romney.

    Mitchell: Isn't it a winning issue for the White House, fundamentally, granted that the PolitiFact folks and the Washington Post pointing out that the President's campaign ad on that issue had a lot of questions and a lot of questionable attacks?

    Sununu: But they said it was wrong. A lot of questionable tactics is not right, it was wrong.

    Mitchell: But the point is, that isn't Mitt Romney more vulnerable than the President on this issue because there still is -- the whole question of private equity of outsourcing. Yo could argue about when he left Bain Capital and whether he was still getting money from Bain Capital and what some of the companies in Bain were doing, companies that did end up working overseas and sending jobs overseas. But isn't it a bigger problem for Republicans than for the White House?

    Sununu: No. When you've sent $500 million to Fisker and it goes to Finland immediately. When you send the solar money and it goes to Mexico. When you send the turbine money and it goes to Denmark. And we can go on all day. There is $29 billion worth of purchases that came out of this administration, outsourced jobs to foreign countries.

    Mitt Romney outsourced zero --

    Mitchell: Zero?

    Sununu: Zero. He wasn't there when those issues came up.

    Mitchell: Well, first of all the $29 billion are not all outsourced from the administration because ---

    Sununu: Sure they are.

    Mitchell: A lot of those jobs still remained here. There are jobs -- when you do a grant, governor, there are jobs here as well as overseas.

    Sununu: [laughing] You're struggling, Andrea. You're struggling.

    ...

    Sununu: You know, it’s interesting that the President again chooses to demonstrate why he has ruined this economy. He doesn’t understand why he is behind the eight ball with 8.2% unemployment. He’s behind the eight ball because those people who invest in jobs that want to put money into create jobs look at this administration and are scared to death of things like this tax and like overregulation. All he’s done with what he put out yesterday is convince them that if Obama is elected, they’re taking their investment money out of the country.
    ...

    Sununu: "Well, he’s [Obama] doing to his Democratic party what he did when he sent up a budget and lost in the house by 414-0 and in the senate, 98-0. All he cares about is himself. He doesn’t care about the people that support him politically and frankly I think this is just a repetition of a desperate act by a president who wants to create class warfare. It’s why he’s going to lose."

    Governor Romney today in Colorado also slammed our Out-Sourcer-in-Chief.

    The gloves are on.
    (more)
  • Live Fr... jean 2012/08/12 01:27:34
    Live Free Or Die
    Let's see.

    Can you give me the total amount of the Stimulus and a percentage of that money actually approved by Obama or the Congress for this money to go overseas?

    That is what I'm looking for, from a reputable source, please.

    After all, you are the one accusing the President.
  • jean Live Fr... 2012/08/12 02:03:29
    jean
    You got the information - rebut it or DEAL WITH IT!
  • Live Fr... jean 2012/08/12 02:11:28 (edited)
    Live Free Or Die
    How much was the Stimulus package?

    How much of it was allocated to overseas?

    And who allocated it?

    You haven't answered those questions, nor provided a reliable source.

    I don't have to deal with anything. It's up to you to convince me of your claim, that the President outsourced the Stimulus overseas.
  • jean Live Fr... 2012/08/12 02:13:27
    jean
    THE ACCUSATIONS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES and myriads of information are available at your leisure. Did you see the book available for your reading pleasure?

    YOU NEED TO COACH DIRTY HARRY ON UNSUBSTANTIATED ACCUSATIONS.
  • Live Fr... jean 2012/08/12 02:17:56
    Live Free Or Die
    "The accusations speak for themselves"

    No, they don't.

    Anyway, it's YOU who are making the claim that Obama outsourced the Stimulus to overseas, not me. You can back that claim up or not. Your choice.
  • jean Live Fr... 2012/08/12 02:24:51
    jean
    DONE No one has been able to rebut the accusations so far. THE ACCUSATIONS STILL STAND. If they didn't poor Andrea Mitchell would have let us know by now (as she was going to remember?) Read the book if you want all of the details. OBAMANOMICS OUTSOURCED - for your reading pleasure.
  • Live Fr... jean 2012/08/12 02:38:16
    Live Free Or Die
    Rules for debate: You are the one making the claim. It's up to you to back it up.

    You did not.

    If you don't want to or are unable, fine by me. Run around making your unsubstantiated allegations without PROOF. You do yourself a disservice if you really believe it. I could care less.
  • jean Live Fr... 2012/08/12 18:36:32 (edited)
    jean
    NOTORIOUS DEAR - Books are being written on it because it is so obvious!

    Tracing Obama's Overseas Investments

    Electric Cars

    Obama handed over billions of dollars in loan guarantees and stimulus awards pursuant to his goal of putting one-million electric vehicles on the road by 2015. Much of that money ended up leaving our shores. A $2.4 billion stimulus program to support battery production sent nearly half of its money to foreign firms, including two South Korean companies that used their awards to hire foreign nationals in Michigan to do work that Americans easily could have done. In the end, despite all the money Obama handed out, electric vehicle sales have lagged and The Washington Post deemed his goal of one million electric cars "overly optimistic."
    Wind Farms

    Obama's stimulus included over $8.5 billion in grants for wind farms that flowed overseas, despite Congressional criticism from both sides of the aisle. In total, over half of the money went to either foreign developers or foreign wind turbine manufacturers, creating thousands of jobs overseas with money that was supposed to create jobs within the United States. Even worse, hundreds of millions of dollars went to wind farms that began construction before the stimulus was passed. The end result of all this spending: th...





    NOTORIOUS DEAR - Books are being written on it because it is so obvious!

    Tracing Obama's Overseas Investments

    Electric Cars

    Obama handed over billions of dollars in loan guarantees and stimulus awards pursuant to his goal of putting one-million electric vehicles on the road by 2015. Much of that money ended up leaving our shores. A $2.4 billion stimulus program to support battery production sent nearly half of its money to foreign firms, including two South Korean companies that used their awards to hire foreign nationals in Michigan to do work that Americans easily could have done. In the end, despite all the money Obama handed out, electric vehicle sales have lagged and The Washington Post deemed his goal of one million electric cars "overly optimistic."
    Wind Farms

    Obama's stimulus included over $8.5 billion in grants for wind farms that flowed overseas, despite Congressional criticism from both sides of the aisle. In total, over half of the money went to either foreign developers or foreign wind turbine manufacturers, creating thousands of jobs overseas with money that was supposed to create jobs within the United States. Even worse, hundreds of millions of dollars went to wind farms that began construction before the stimulus was passed. The end result of all this spending: the wind energy industry lost 10,000 jobs last year.
    Manufacturing TaxCredits

    As Obama was doling out over $2.3 billion in clean energy manufacturing tax credits that were supposed to create jobs in America, $880 million went to foreign firms. Worse still, some of those same recipients are now closing up shop and shipping jobs overseas.
    Loan Guarantees

    Remember Solyndra? The problems with Obama's loan guarantee program don't end there. The largest recipient of Obama's program to jumpstart green energy projects was the Spanish Company Abengoa, which took in $2.7 billion in loan guarantees for three of its projects. Other projects importing foreign-made solar panels are, much in the same way as Fisker Automotive, choosing to make their products overseas.
    (more)
  • Live Fr... jean 2012/08/12 21:05:14
    Live Free Or Die
    Sorry jean, you provided NO reference for the third or fourth time because you can't.

    Again, jean, how MUCH was the STIMULUS and what percentage of it went overseas?

    Who allocated that money, Obama?

    You have provided not one credible source.
  • jean Live Fr... 2012/08/13 01:07:08
    jean
    You can't change facts - UNDER THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION 29 BILLION DOLLARS OF THE STIMULUS MONEY LEFT THE COUNTRY IMMEDIATELY
  • jean Live Fr... 2012/08/12 18:37:17
    jean
    .LOL you sound like you are talking about Dirty Harry and his UNSUBSTANTIATED ACCUSATIONS!

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