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Is the Chicago Teachers Strike Helping or Hurting the Education System?

AdriHead 2012/09/13 19:00:00
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Public school teachers in Chicago have been on strike for a few days now, which has put a stop to classes and affected family schedules across the state. But Chicago Teachers Union President Karen Lewis says she expects there to be a deal soon between the teachers union that is on strike and public school officials. Do you think the strike is ultimately helping the education system -- or hurting it by grinding it to an indefinite halt?

CHICAGOTRIBUNE.COM reports:
Negotiators trying to settle the Chicago teachers strike say more than 350,000 students could be back in the classroom by Friday.
chicago teachers strike

Read More: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/...

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Top Opinion

  • Dale 2012/09/13 19:13:28
    Helping
    Dale
    +31
    By the reading and math levels of students in the Chicago Public Schools, they, the teachers, are probably helping the students more by staying out on strike.

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  • Jensenmk joshua.... 2012/09/16 07:07:18
    Jensenmk
    +1
    So you are making up more 'facts' I see.
  • SonofSp... Jensenmk 2012/09/16 13:42:50
    SonofSpermcube
    Which of those points is false? Explain why.
  • biggerman SonofSp... 2012/09/17 16:43:19
    biggerman
    All of them - and I did.
  • SonofSp... biggerman 2012/09/18 00:23:48
    SonofSpermcube
    I wasn't asking you, and it was well after I made that post, so can the attitude.
  • 4570GOVT Jensenmk 2012/09/16 16:08:08
    4570GOVT
    He Is !
  • 4570GOVT joshua.... 2012/09/16 16:07:53
    4570GOVT
    # 2 - is the best that can happen ! It puts the PARENTS in charge of where their kids are educated . These So-Called Public Funds are just that ---- Paid For By The Parents TAXES ! The Money Should Go To The BEST SCHOOLS That The Parents Want . If Public Schools Squander the Money " AND DON'T TEACH THEIR KIDS " , I Support The Parents Right To Chose - It Is , After All , THEIR MONEY !
  • joshua.... 4570GOVT 2012/09/16 18:50:54
    joshua.sager.9
    Unfortunately, 2 major problems prevent what you say from being true:

    1) There are simply not enough spaces in quality private schools to accomodate our population--this causes most students to be shunted into low quality or religious schools.

    2) Vouchers don't pay for the full costs of tuition, thus the poor will end up shouldering even more of the costs of educating their children then they do now.
  • biggerman joshua.... 2012/09/17 16:40:38
    biggerman
    To what "low quality or religious schools" are you referring? That is a bigoted statement that has no basis in fact. Religious and perochial schools are highly regarded in most communities and consistently produce a high quality of education. Kids are not "shunted" into these school. The children who attend these schools, by and large, come from homes whose parents care deeply about their children and many make deep personal sacrifices to give their children the best opportunites they can. Yes, some of the kids who attend private schools come from wealthy homes but not as many as you might think. "Shunted into low quality or religious schools" - did you really think about that statement before you pushed "Enter"?
  • joshua.... biggerman 2012/09/17 17:28:31
    joshua.sager.9
    Notice the "or" in my statement: The low quality schools which I refer to are private schools which focus upon profiting their investors and advertising rather than providing a quality education (look at for-profit universities for the college version of these schools); these schools have popped up in places with advanced voucherization (ex Florida/New Jersey) and pose a real threat to education. Religious schools can provide an education similar to that of public schools (except in the biological sciences) but they come with the drawback of requiring religious studies.

    If public schools are defunded to the point where they stop functioning, parents will either be forced to enroll their children in a decent religious school (even if they aren't religious and would rather not) or a sub-standard for-profit school. There are simply not enough spots in high-quality secular institutions to accommodate all of the student in the country and this problem is unavoidable.
  • biggerman joshua.... 2012/09/17 17:48:32
    biggerman
    Your "low quality or religious schools" reference seemed to me to be a "same breath" kind of statement as if you were equating the two. But, regardless, the public school system needs to be overhauled. It is a stretch to even say that what they are producing is "education." Public schools educate a few and let the rest fall through the cracks. A large percentage of the students who attend public schools can't even read well and know little about what is taking place in the real world. The true teacher must be able to combine the communication of knowledge and the moral application of that knowledge so that his students can use what they learn unselfishly. Public schools fail because they have no moral foundation. In fact, "morality" is a word that has been discarded from our vernacular. Giving these teachers more money will not make them better teachers because the system of which they are a part will not allow it. Religious schhols may not have the laboratory equipment and the money that a good science program requires but they provide something far more valuable - a moral foundation.
  • joshua.... biggerman 2012/09/17 19:05:03
    joshua.sager.9
    Morality isn't the problem, an outdated educational system and a society that no longer demands educational excellence are.

    Schools need to incorporate smaller classes, customized course-loads, increased extracurricular activities, technology, and well-paid, experienced teachers in order to update themselves.

    Parents need to get involved, demand that their kids succeed, encourage reading, and not just use the schools as babysitters.

    PS. Morality is completely separate from religion and it is far easier to promote moral conduct without mixing in religion. By teaching the social contract, rather than relying upon religious dogma, it would be possible to teach morality without violating our first amendment (utilizing religion in schools to teach moral lessons violates the 1st amendment establishment clause).
  • biggerman joshua.... 2012/09/17 16:31:58 (edited)
    biggerman
    1) The poor distribution of money in the public school system is a result of a poor and misguided agenda that is fixated on turning schools into liberal indoctrination centers rather than educating the kids. Paying the teachers more money or giving them even greater benefits while being unable to require more from them as far as performance in concerned is only going to "exacerbate" the problems.

    2) Private schools (most of which are faith based) do not receive public funds. In fact, most faith based private schools do not want public funding.

    3) You are just flat out wrong about that. You have been getting your information from NEA propaganda mills.

    4) First of all; what are "similar fields" when comparing them to what teachers do? They are public sector employees who know what they are getting into before they get hired. But, the fact is that you cannot make these kinds of comparisons. It is unwise and unrealistic to do so. Teachers are being paid fairly for what they do. Their health care coverage and pensions more than make up for any perceived deficiency in salary. Teachers work hard; my wife and I have both been teachers and we have always been very conscientious about the work we do. But, the fact remains that teachers work 185 days per year (give or take a ...
    1) The poor distribution of money in the public school system is a result of a poor and misguided agenda that is fixated on turning schools into liberal indoctrination centers rather than educating the kids. Paying the teachers more money or giving them even greater benefits while being unable to require more from them as far as performance in concerned is only going to "exacerbate" the problems.

    2) Private schools (most of which are faith based) do not receive public funds. In fact, most faith based private schools do not want public funding.

    3) You are just flat out wrong about that. You have been getting your information from NEA propaganda mills.

    4) First of all; what are "similar fields" when comparing them to what teachers do? They are public sector employees who know what they are getting into before they get hired. But, the fact is that you cannot make these kinds of comparisons. It is unwise and unrealistic to do so. Teachers are being paid fairly for what they do. Their health care coverage and pensions more than make up for any perceived deficiency in salary. Teachers work hard; my wife and I have both been teachers and we have always been very conscientious about the work we do. But, the fact remains that teachers work 185 days per year (give or take a few) and get extended days off during every public holiday - That is a pretty sweet benefit on its own - Most other people work at least 250 - 260 days per year. I have no sympathy for these teachers.
    (more)
  • SonofSp... biggerman 2012/09/18 00:22:34
    SonofSpermcube
    1) What do you think he means by "poorly distributed?"

    2) Who was it pushing for private school vouchers, then? And many charter schools are operated by private, for-profit companies.

    3) Do you have an independent source for evaluating the educational outcomes of home schooling? I'd accept, from among the things I think you would probably accept: federal government statistics, statistics from colleges--particularly umbrella organizations, statistics from think tanks without strong party affiliation, possibly news articles based on actual investigative reporting and not just a couple of interviews.

    4) I don't believe you've ever been a public school teacher. Regardless, do you think everyone who has good health care coverage should have it taken away?
  • biggerman SonofSp... 2012/09/18 01:23:06
    biggerman
    1) I don't know for sure. But, the reason I think that funds are poorly distributed is because the public school system is a monstrosity that is way to unwieldy and is poorly focused on and unsure of exactly what they want to accomplish.

    2) Politicians who are pandering to their base. I don't care about those vouchers and the Christian schools of which I am associated don't care about them either. It has always been feared that if gov't funding was accepted, gov't control would not be too far behind. If charter schools are run for profit, they will have to produce in order to stay in business. The profit motive has always been a legitimate and productive idea.

    3) Yes - but certainly not the biased organizations you mentioned. I prefer to believe the biased organizations that are sympathetic to my cause.

    4) Yes, I have public school teaching credentials in the State of California although my experience as a teacher in the schools is minimal. I do not want to be a member of the teacher's union and some of the things taught in public schools are contrary to what I believe. Our experience has been primarily, not exclusively, in private schools - but so what.

    What does your question about health care have to do with anything that I have said?
  • SonofSp... biggerman 2012/09/18 07:11:43
    SonofSpermcube
    1) You don't know for sure what you think? Then why did you bother trying to address it with a half-formed opinion?

    2) It wasn't liberals or atheists pushing for them, pandering to their base or not.

    3) Would you mind sharing?

    4) Haha...I'll bet there's a story here, and I'll bet it undermines your attempts to argue from a position of authority.

    And finally, YOU brought up insurance.
  • 4570GOVT biggerman 2012/09/16 16:09:07
    4570GOVT
    Well Said !
  • 4570GOVT joshua.... 2012/09/16 16:01:53 (edited)
    4570GOVT
    ................................ wow
  • nails 2012/09/16 03:21:09
    Hurting
    nails
    +2
    Just take a look at the protesters.I see Ignorance,arrogness,and a large group of people
    who couldn't spell," cat "10x in a row correctly.
  • 4570GOVT nails 2012/09/16 16:09:54
    4570GOVT
    +2
    Looks Like The " March Of The Ignorant " .
  • aahhhhhhh 2012/09/16 00:49:20
    Hurting
    aahhhhhhh
    Of course its hurting,but teachers deserve all they can get. Its one of the most important jobs there is.
  • Christo... aahhhhhhh 2012/09/16 01:14:06
    Christopher Kirchen
    +3
    No they don't, at least not all of them; further, even teachers' value is finite.
  • nails Christo... 2012/09/16 19:13:44 (edited)
    nails
    +1
    Fake it till you make it.I believe thats the new norm as far as teaching go's.And no it dosen't mean all teachers are bad.I have attended both public and private school.Public
    schools needs alot more than Teachers that can't teach.Discipline problems were out
    of control in the late 60tys.
  • A Founding Father 2012/09/16 00:39:23
    Hurting
    A Founding Father
    +2
    In Chicago it doesn't matter much. Most schools there are not places of learning anyway, just buildings housing rowdy kids for a few hours and adults earning twice what they could earn if working at a real job. Basically, the kids have been forgotten a long time ago and the "teachers" are part of a system to reward those who play in the game.
  • Pm 2012/09/16 00:21:18
    Hurting
    Pm
    +2
    Helping? WTF are you people thinking?
  • Todd Pa... Pm 2012/09/16 13:57:53
    Todd Parsons
    Those people are most likely teacher union workers from Chicago
  • ZenerSix 2012/09/15 22:51:25
    Hurting
    ZenerSix
    +1
    ...and good riddance. The education system is what needs to go. If it were a commercial service, these teachers would all be out on their fat asses and the administrators would be filing for bankruptcy, or bailout money.
  • Mat Miller 2012/09/15 22:23:25
    Hurting
    Mat Miller
    +2
    Fire them all, replace them. Plenty of educated people who care about children that can't get a job teaching because these stupid fat guzzling retards push them out. I like Unions, but I hate teachers unions. They get rid of qualified people and keep their friends in charge. Its no way to oversea education.
  • TimothyBrianFoley 2012/09/15 21:28:39
    Helping
    TimothyBrianFoley
    teachers need money they can't teach if they are getting screwed
  • Aqua Su... Timothy... 2012/09/16 02:22:14
    Aqua Surf BTO-t-BCRA-F
    +1
    It's the students who are getting screwed.
  • SonofSp... Aqua Su... 2012/09/16 13:43:56
    SonofSpermcube
    That's the great thing, by screwing teachers you screw 30 more people and their families for every one teacher you screw. It's really the best bang for your screwing buck these days.
  • biggerman Timothy... 2012/09/16 05:37:49
    biggerman
    Teachers are grossly overpaid but, regardless, they are being paid to educate and they get a big fat "F" for that.
  • Bibliop... biggerman 2012/09/16 07:13:44 (edited)
    Bibliophilic
    +2
    Yes, blame teachers because students misbehave (due to a lack of discipline at home) and are not even taught to read books- instead they watch tv and play video games. The sort of environment a kid is brought up in typically determines his/her future.
  • SonofSp... Bibliop... 2012/09/16 13:47:56
    SonofSpermcube
    +1
    I was working at a public library. A woman came to the counter with a whole bunch of DVDs, and a little girl in tow. I checked her account and told her that due to a large amount of overdue and lost item fees, she would not be allowed to check out her movies. She asked me what the fees were for, and I checked. When I listed off a bunch of books, she said to me: "oh, that's impossible. I don't read."

    Not "I didn't check those out." Not "I don't read that kind of book." Not even "I don't read books." I'd have settled for "I can't read." That would have been better. "I don't read."

    I couldn't stop staring at the little girl while I died inside.
  • biggerman Bibliop... 2012/09/16 15:14:15
    biggerman
    I normally do support the teachers; I've been one. But, when they collectively go out on strike, my sympathies vanish. Individually, many teachers are great; but, collectively (if that is how they want to regard themselves), they are failing. They should not be able to strike. Those responsible for paying them are paying them with money that is not theirs. Public sector unions of all kinds are nothing more than opportunities for Democrat politicians to play with public money to buy the votes of public sector employees and, in this case, the teachers' union has become a political front group for the Democratic Party. It's wrong. If the education of the kids was the top priorty, the teachers, adminstrators, and all those directly involved in the system would insist upon discipline in the classroom. Bad apples would be rooted out in favor of those who wanted to comply. Parents would be held responsible for their children's behavior. Law Makers would demand that teachers meet higher standards, bad teachers would be fired. But, the education of the kids is not the top priority. Indoctrination and social engineering is. Kids are kids. It is time for the adults in the room to take responsibility and realize that teaching is a skill and the kids must not be allowed to be in control.
  • SonofSp... biggerman 2012/09/16 13:44:18
    SonofSpermcube
    How much do you think teachers make, and why do you think it is too much?
  • biggerman SonofSp... 2012/09/16 16:17:13
    biggerman
    The average salary for Chicago Public school teachers is between $72,000 and $76,000 with full insurance benefits with no co-pay requirments. They do not need more money.
  • SonofSp... biggerman 2012/09/17 15:47:32
    SonofSpermcube
    Good thing that isn't their only complaint.
  • biggerman SonofSp... 2012/09/17 15:52:12
    biggerman
    Oh yeah, they also get life time pensions. No one works in a perfect work environment. You know what they can do with their complaints.
  • Bibliop... Timothy... 2012/09/16 07:14:58
    Bibliophilic
    +1
    No, parents keep sending ill-prepared students with behavior problems.
  • Todd Pa... Timothy... 2012/09/16 13:59:28
    Todd Parsons
    The teachers in Chicago make more money than the average teacher already. ($75,000 annually) they are complaining about being rated on their performance... probably because they know where that will take them.

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