Quantcast

Is The Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma Racist Pt 2... The Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma Tries to Prevent The Cherokee in Kentucky From Gaining Recognition

chaoskitty123 2011/12/19 07:56:00
Ok, last year I wrote a topic about the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma where I addressed their racism and their abuse of power where other Cherokee in the US were concerned. The Cherokee in Kentucky now provide further proof of this as they are trying to gain recognized status as Cherokee and the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma is doing everything they can to stop them. I was advised of this by another member here so I looked into it and joined six Native websites where the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma was trying to shout people down, delete posts and literally censor all dissent and opposing views.

Here's what I wrote on one of the sites where they have all comments set to be reviewed before they allow any to be posted and where they have apparently banned dozens of members over this issue who were already members... needless to say, they banned me on the spot and all five of the others banned me as well.

My Post...
I am a newcomer here and I do not mean to throw rocks or start fights with my first post but I think I need to address a few things and see where you guys are coming from.

First, just because you may be a Cherokee does not mean you know your history better than anyone else. People who talk like that generally are people who prove to be two faced as while they tell you that you are wrong and you don't know their history because you aren't one of them... they sure seem to know everything about my history and the history of my people when based on their logic, they can't know anything about me or my people because they aren't one of us.

Second, the issue of the Cherokee Nation is something Cherokee cannot claim alone as they were one of the Civilized Nations and allowed many whites to become citizens and intermarry... thus, the intermarried whites you hear spoken of on many issues where the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma speak of.

Third, the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma are a racist people. The very fact that people defending them speak of their desire to have "pure" blood is in fact no different and no less racist than the KKK or the white people who sought to annihilate all Native peoples and those they called halfbreeds.

The CNA uses the Dawes Roll to determine who is Cherokee and who is not in relation to becoming a member of the CNA. However, they have rejected many Cherokee who are more pureblooded than themselves while welcoming other natives who aren't Cherokee at all... erm, doesn't that sound a bit odd? Isn't that making their stand on the matter duplicitous since they reject Cherokee whose ancestors names aren't on the Dawes Roll but they accept other natives whose ancestors names aren't on the Dawes Roll and aren't even Cherokee?

Then let's examine the Cherokee themselves. They look like white people. They wear white mans clothes, his hair styles, live in white mans homes, drive white mans cars. They even have white mans names... how is any of that Cherokee? if they are talking about "racial purity" then what about cultural history as well? It's unrealistic that the Cherokee would start living in wig wams riding horses killing buffalo... but there are many cultural attributes of the Native peoples where there's no excuse for not restoring let alone abandoning white mans names if Cherokee want to be pureblooded as being pureblooded means more than genetics... culture is a huge part of a peoples racial identity.

Having your name on the Dawes Roll doesn't make you Cherokee does it? I mean, you could have a white man with blond hair whose great great grandfather married a white woman and pass on his name to his descendants. But according to how the CNA decides things, a "non Native" would be rejected even if their name was on the Dawes Roll and had a Native ancestor who was a pureblooded Cherokee.

Then let's look at the deal the CNA made with the US government granting them self rule. In this agreement, the CNA agreed that intermarried whites and their black freedmen would be given equal rights and citizenship status. This was a condition of the CNA even existing and they cannot legally violate this particular area of their treaty with the US government without violating the treaty itself and losing all that they have.

Arguments have been raised that because they have self rule that they have the right to create laws to determine who is a citizen and who is not. False. The CNA is not a recognized sovereign nation by world governments and in 1997, the then High Chief Joe Byrd tried to overthrow the CNA government in a coup which the CNA had no power to prevent and it took the Oklahoma National Guard to restore things. The CNA is a "subject" territory or a "dependency" but it is not sovereign by definition. Their agreement with the US government requires the CNA to recognize the black freedmen and the intermarried whites as citizens and any effort to undo this will result in nullification of what semi independent status they actually possess.

But what's troubling about the CNA is the term "racial purity" because no one in the United States uses this term who is not lumped up in the same group as Adolf Hitler and White Supremacy. It raises questions what would they do if they knew that the US and state government of Oklahoma wasn't there to stop them. The effort to remove the intermarried whites and black freedmen, where would they draw the line? The same question where other Cherokee are concerned as some of the Cherokee not allowed to become citizens of the CNA are actually MORE racially and culturally pure than the CNA itself.

[url]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Chad_...

Here is Chad Smith meeting with other Cherokee Nation members... tell me who looks Cherokee here as they look like a bunch of white people don't they? And Chad Smith... what kind of Native name is that? Racial and cultural purity??

I like to point out something to minorities that they don't like to hear. There are several US states with less than a million people. With the gambling casinos many tribes operate, Natives could immigrate to one of these states (taking into account not all would move) and in a short time, become the majority population. They would then control the state economy, the government, the Governors office and even it's National Guard... all with the power of the vote to gain true power rather than always being treated as a dependency.

Now I realize that will insult some and give others reason to think. But the point of that scenario I mentioned above is that some people are minorities by fate... and some are minorities by choice.

What white people did to Native people cannot be undone, but what Natives have done to themselves can be undone. The trick is that most Native peoples now view themselves as Americans first, Natives second so that it is understandable they have white man names, houses, cars, clothes, haircuts and pretty much are Native in name only... no different than the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma. However, this get's sticky because if they view themselves as Americans first and Natives second, then the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma has no right to exist because to be a sovereign people requires that your principle identity comes first and I see nothing about the CNA that looks remotely Native unless they're celebrating a cultural holiday or event like most other peoples do.

But if Natives wish to claim "racial purity", then that requires a purge not just of flesh and blood... but a purge of culture as well. then there are their leaders recently... Joe Byrd, Chad Smith and S. Joe Crittenden... those don't sound Native do they? Now, Wilma Mankiller, that was one heck of a name even if her first name were European, that last name was definately Native.

My point here guys is this, the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma is a sham. Love them or hate them, they are a sham. They aren't a sham because I say so or because anyone else might define them as such... they are a sham because the only thing Native about them is their government designation as such.

The Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma has no right to decide who and who is not Cherokee when most of them look and act about as native as I and 99% of white people do.

The Cherokee in the state of Kentucky have the legal right to claim their racial and cultural heritage and the state of Kentucky is within it's right to grant them any legal status they desire. The CNA is a sovereign dependency and any claim they possess to the name Cherokee requires that they first prove that they themselves are Cherokee... genetics alone don't determine a race of peoples and I would dare say that many of the Kentucky Cherokee are more pure blooded than the CNA themselves. If I and several hundred thousand Europeans wished to create a German cultural territory in the US, the nation of Germany could not stop us and in the same way, the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma have no legal right to prevent these Cherokee from establishing a legal right to be recognized for their ancestral heritage and any talk about treaties signed between the CNA and the US government need to examine their efforts to remove the intermarried whites and black freedman which their treaty requires they recognize as Cherokee citizens.

Lot of typing and a lot of talk but ultimately... truth wins out and the CNA of Oklahoma is racist, by most standards, is about as racially pure as a certain little dictator in Germany with one testicle proved to be.

I strongly believe in Native American rights but where issues of cultural ignorance supplant cultural pride and truth... I don't flinch to call things as they are. The CNA has no right to deny the Cherokee of Kentucky their racial and cultural identity when they haven't even preserved their own except in name only.
End Post

Summation

I am very tough on the Cherokee Nation of oklahoma because to be very honest... the only thing about them that is Cherokee is their claim to be Cherokee and US recognition of that fact.

They want "racial purity" and as I said in my response, those are words only the worst haters in history have used. Culturally, there's nothing about these people that is Cherokee and that's what I address very strongly as most have white mans names, live in white mans homes, drive white mans cars, wear white mans clothes and even have white man's hair cuts. If you look at photo's of these people, you truly have to ask what is Native about them.

A peoples are not defined by dna alone as culture also defines a peoples race. White people may have tried to "civilize" their ancestors but they resisted change until gradually they accepted the white mans way of life.

The US government gives the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma over $300 million dollars a year and many of these people do nothing to earn a living as they live off government support. As I say in the above response, the CNA have violated their treaty with the US government through it's efforts to remove intermarried whites and black freedmen whom they agree to grant full citizenship in the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma as part of their treaty with the US government. Their efforts to purge these people while calling for racial purity is racist. But it goes beyond that as they have welcomed other non Cherokee into the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma whose names are not on the Dawes Roll and the reason given by many of them is that these Natives are racially pure and the idea is to intermarry with them to purify the Cherokee bloodlines.

Then we have the issue with the Cherokee tribes in Kentucky which has it's opponents http://theruraldemocrat.typepad.com/the_rural_democrat/2011/1... (the same guy addresses the expulsion of the black freedmen from the CNA http://theruraldemocrat.typepad.com/the_rural_democrat/2011/0... ) and supporters http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/712/134/165/ (please sign the petition) http://winterstubes.com/tribal2.html

Regardless of the views people have expressed against the ideal, when you investigate the matter you do find a well organized group of Native Cherokee in Kentucky trying to gain recognition and once again, the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma is trying to stop this group just as they've tried to stop others.

Simple truth, the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma is racist and if any other group of peoples acted this way, we would most definately attack them as Nazi's with their talk of racial purity and their ignorance in not understanding that there's more to being a race than genetics as their cultural identity defines them more than anything.

While it would be unreasonable to think they would start living in wig wams riding horses shooting buffalo (as I said above), they have nothing about them which is culturally Native... their culture is European.

The Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma has gone so far as to have laws drawn up where anyone who isn't Native by blood cannot claim their Cherokee heritage if their ancestors include Native Cherokee. Literally, if I went on tv speaking about my great grandfather being Cherokee, because i look like a white man, I am in violation of laws created to stop celebrities and entertainers from claiming they have Cherokee ancestry. If my ancestors are Cherokee from North Alabama, Georgia or anywhere other than Oklahoma... I have a right to claim my heritage. But it doesn't end there as in the past, these fanatics have actually tried to prevent other Cherokee from claiming their birthright even though they were more pureblooded Cherokee than those in the CNA.

Some of you won't get this or understand because you will allow your mind to ignore the truth about these people because they are Natives and should have their own sovereignty. However, this group has essentially abandoned their ancestral culture and think they have the power to control other Cherokee across the United States by denying them the same recognition given to the Cherokee in Oklahoma.

If this were a white supremist group, most of you would be enraged because the actions and beliefs of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma are so blatantly racist... and for the most part, these people are Cherokee In Name Only.

Disagree if you like but it seems the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma is trying to censor anyone who speaks against them and tries to address their interference in the affairs of other Cherokee and even people with Cherokee ancestry they don't consider to be true Cherokee... but then, just how Cherokee are these people as culturally, there's nothing Cherokee about them.

You!
Add Photos & Videos

Top Opinion

  • Chevrolette Bin-Ayers 2013/01/21 23:37:33 (edited)
    Chevrolette Bin-Ayers
    +9
    No offense, but a great deal of this is just not factually correct. First of all, there aren't any in Cherokee Nation who live off of individual entitlements. We do not receive any sort of personal cash payment, period. It is true that some tribes do, but Cherokee Nation is not among them. Most of this money goes to things like tribal healthcare, tribal substance abuse treatment (due in no small part to continually dealing with ignorant attacks like this), and cultural initiatives. Not only did white people take our land, but then we get told that we're lazy, money-grubbing, racist, and stupid(?!) Nice.

    As far as the Cherokee of Kentucky are concerned...I don't know the specifics of their claims. I know that a lot of pretindians like to run around taking Indian names and doing offensive things like hanging up dream catchers or holding new age pretindian ceremonies. If the Kentucky Cherokee are like this, then we are against them. I'm afraid that you misunderstand the motivation here. If it can be legitimately verified that they have Cherokee heritage, then of course we would welcome them (as you pointed out, we have done this with others). We just don't want to condone pretindians and the cheapening of our culture. Additionally, many Cherokee were against the Freedman debacle ...

    No offense, but a great deal of this is just not factually correct. First of all, there aren't any in Cherokee Nation who live off of individual entitlements. We do not receive any sort of personal cash payment, period. It is true that some tribes do, but Cherokee Nation is not among them. Most of this money goes to things like tribal healthcare, tribal substance abuse treatment (due in no small part to continually dealing with ignorant attacks like this), and cultural initiatives. Not only did white people take our land, but then we get told that we're lazy, money-grubbing, racist, and stupid(?!) Nice.

    As far as the Cherokee of Kentucky are concerned...I don't know the specifics of their claims. I know that a lot of pretindians like to run around taking Indian names and doing offensive things like hanging up dream catchers or holding new age pretindian ceremonies. If the Kentucky Cherokee are like this, then we are against them. I'm afraid that you misunderstand the motivation here. If it can be legitimately verified that they have Cherokee heritage, then of course we would welcome them (as you pointed out, we have done this with others). We just don't want to condone pretindians and the cheapening of our culture. Additionally, many Cherokee were against the Freedman debacle (I was among them). I do not condone that and it isn't right to imply that we all do. (sarcastic aside) I feel relieved that there are white men out there who know better how to run our nation than we do!

    I don't know you personally nor am I acquainted with your motivations. However I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you sincerely believe that we are racist, money-grubbing, and not really Cherokee. Please know that this certainly isn't true of all of us and that this confrontational tone does little for conciliation. Please get your facts straight before holding such offensive opinions about people you don't know. Peace to you (really). I think that if you were better-informed you wouldn't buy into this hyper-emotional and irrational vigilantism.
    (more)

Sort By
  • Most Raves
  • Least Raves
  • Oldest
  • Newest
Opinions

  • Chevrolette Bin-Ayers 2013/01/21 23:37:33 (edited)
    Chevrolette Bin-Ayers
    +9
    No offense, but a great deal of this is just not factually correct. First of all, there aren't any in Cherokee Nation who live off of individual entitlements. We do not receive any sort of personal cash payment, period. It is true that some tribes do, but Cherokee Nation is not among them. Most of this money goes to things like tribal healthcare, tribal substance abuse treatment (due in no small part to continually dealing with ignorant attacks like this), and cultural initiatives. Not only did white people take our land, but then we get told that we're lazy, money-grubbing, racist, and stupid(?!) Nice.

    As far as the Cherokee of Kentucky are concerned...I don't know the specifics of their claims. I know that a lot of pretindians like to run around taking Indian names and doing offensive things like hanging up dream catchers or holding new age pretindian ceremonies. If the Kentucky Cherokee are like this, then we are against them. I'm afraid that you misunderstand the motivation here. If it can be legitimately verified that they have Cherokee heritage, then of course we would welcome them (as you pointed out, we have done this with others). We just don't want to condone pretindians and the cheapening of our culture. Additionally, many Cherokee were against the Freedman debacle ...

    No offense, but a great deal of this is just not factually correct. First of all, there aren't any in Cherokee Nation who live off of individual entitlements. We do not receive any sort of personal cash payment, period. It is true that some tribes do, but Cherokee Nation is not among them. Most of this money goes to things like tribal healthcare, tribal substance abuse treatment (due in no small part to continually dealing with ignorant attacks like this), and cultural initiatives. Not only did white people take our land, but then we get told that we're lazy, money-grubbing, racist, and stupid(?!) Nice.

    As far as the Cherokee of Kentucky are concerned...I don't know the specifics of their claims. I know that a lot of pretindians like to run around taking Indian names and doing offensive things like hanging up dream catchers or holding new age pretindian ceremonies. If the Kentucky Cherokee are like this, then we are against them. I'm afraid that you misunderstand the motivation here. If it can be legitimately verified that they have Cherokee heritage, then of course we would welcome them (as you pointed out, we have done this with others). We just don't want to condone pretindians and the cheapening of our culture. Additionally, many Cherokee were against the Freedman debacle (I was among them). I do not condone that and it isn't right to imply that we all do. (sarcastic aside) I feel relieved that there are white men out there who know better how to run our nation than we do!

    I don't know you personally nor am I acquainted with your motivations. However I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you sincerely believe that we are racist, money-grubbing, and not really Cherokee. Please know that this certainly isn't true of all of us and that this confrontational tone does little for conciliation. Please get your facts straight before holding such offensive opinions about people you don't know. Peace to you (really). I think that if you were better-informed you wouldn't buy into this hyper-emotional and irrational vigilantism.
    (more)
  • Beccy 2012/01/20 00:50:32
    Beccy
    +1
    The cherokee had their children taken from them and the children were taught to be like white people. We can't condemn them for what was done to them.
  • rob ☮ RP ☮ 2012 ☮ 2011/12/19 12:15:21
  • John Pa... rob ☮ R... 2013/04/25 21:05:00
    John Parker
    +2
    We are all one people. My family from Kentucky. Kentucky proud.
  • John Pa... rob ☮ R... 2013/04/25 21:08:34
    John Parker
    +3
    We are all one people. My family from Kentucky. Kentucky proud.
  • Cathy 2011/12/19 11:51:13
    Cathy
    What the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma is doing is very "racist" against their own people who are pure-blood Cherokees; it doesn't make any sense to me. Just because some of them live in different states! There are pure-blooded Cherokees scattered all over the
    U.S. I totally agree with you that they are "racist", but it's very sad because they are rejecting their own people.
  • JoeBtfsplk 2011/12/19 08:17:01
    JoeBtfsplk
    Do Cherokee's speak Choctaw?
    I am under the impression that is what their language is called.
    I feel sorry for the plight of the Indian, but they must assimilate.
    I don't understand why they would attempt to ostracize another tribe.
  • rob ☮ R... JoeBtfsplk 2011/12/19 11:44:59 (edited)
    rob ☮ RP ☮ 2012 ☮
    +2
    tsalagi is the language
  • Chevrol... JoeBtfsplk 2013/01/21 23:40:14 (edited)
    Chevrolette Bin-Ayers
    +9
    No we do not speak Choctaw (the Choctaw do). Some of us speak Tsalagi. Osiyo!
  • Wolfman 2011/12/19 08:06:47
    Wolfman
    +3
    The Cherokee Nation is recognized by the United States and may operate on any principles that they see fit, even if it does not conform to Political Correctness. Their nation belongs to them.

    wolf thanks add
  • Lady Wh... Wolfman 2011/12/19 11:13:18
    Lady Whitewolf
    +3
    AGREED

See Votes by State

The map above displays the winning answer by region.

News & Politics

2014/08/31 06:42:57

Hot Questions on SodaHead
More Hot Questions

More Community More Originals