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Is Right-to-Work: Protecting workers or UNION-Busting??!!

BlueRepublican 2012/06/11 15:51:31
Protecting Workers-RTW
Union-BUSTING!!!
None of the Above...Keep TAX REFORM ALIVE!!!
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There are 22 states that have adopted Right to work legislation.Is it about giving workers the liberty and freedom to work without being forced into an undesired association or union? Is it a blatant attack against the middle class and worker's rights as some claim? Is it just a political strategy to defund the other side or is it simply a matter of giving people more choices?

Are Right-to-work promoters trying to bust up the unions, destroy the middle class and hurt workers? Should workers really be forced to join a union in some places just to be able to WORK?

Like it or not, right-to-work is catching on and gaining more and more national attention. Let me know what you think.

Is Right-to-Work: Protecting workers or UNION-Busting??!!

herman cain
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Top Opinion

  • JoeM~PWCM~JLA 2012/06/11 16:10:41
    Protecting Workers-RTW
    JoeM~PWCM~JLA
    +29
    Jobs will be created where the least problems are presented to the job creators.

    If unions are so great, why has most of Boeing's jobs left the Seattle area?
    If unions are so great, why does Detroit look like a ghost town?

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  • Lady Wh... activ1 2012/06/15 09:43:22
    Lady Whitewolf
    +1
    any time!
  • John BNO activ1 2012/06/12 13:37:24
    John BNO
    I sat across from my corporate people ever year to justify my raise and benefits. Wouldn't have it any other way. I worked for 38 years for two companies in the medical x-ray field, neither of which were union. I loved it. Yes, they had the option to let me go at any time, for no reason at all, but that was OK. They paid me a great wage (approaching 6 figures at times), paid OT, gave me 5-6 weeks of vacation and unlimited personal time for doctor, dentist, and lawyers appointments, great health care benefits through BS/BC or the local HMO, and a company vehicle that I could use for personal use by paying a small monthly fee to mention just a few reason that I stayed there so long. My peers and my supervisor gave me my annual review and pay raise every February and we would get profit sharing most years, plus a 401K where they matched .50 on a dollar up to 3% of my contributions. Why in the world would I ever work for a Union? Often we were forced to work side by side with union workers (for parity wages) which was a big rip off to the client but that was the rule of the electrical union, otherwise all union workers would "strike" and shut down the project. Fortunately, as soon as we could get radiation in the area the union workers scattered and we could work at a productive pace and get something done.
  • Giantfan John BNO 2012/06/12 18:28:05
    Giantfan
    +2
    The part you fail to understand sir is that without unions over the past 150 years fighting for all those benifits you recieve you wouldn't have any of them. Corporations and businesses didn't offer any benifits before unions faught and yes some members even died so people (all workers union and non union) could have better benifits and working conditions. Do you really think companies today are that generous for no reason. If unions die out there will be no competition and companies will start taking benifits away one at a time until we are back in the 1800's with no benifits.
  • John BNO Giantfan 2012/06/12 19:16:07
    John BNO
    Valued employees will always be in demand by businesses. I defended my worth every year to the company and was glad to do it. In return, they proved their worth to me. Unions have a place in supporting unskilled labor, but that area is getting much smaller.
  • Giantfan John BNO 2012/06/12 20:59:37
    Giantfan
    +2
    Ok but your shortsightedness will be the dowwnfall of wages and benifits for people like you. Sooner or later you will break your own arm patting yourself on the back. You haven't a clue as to what got you to where you are today. When employers no longer have to offer you anything because no one else does it'll be I laughing at you.
  • John BNO Giantfan 2012/06/13 18:31:02
    John BNO
    My company employed over 2000 field service personnel here in the US alone. With the exception of the union guys from NYC we were all grateful to have the jobs we had and the company was grateful to have us working for them and they demonstrated that fact often.
  • Giantfan John BNO 2012/06/14 03:45:40
    Giantfan
    +1
    And I worked for 30 years for 3 large corporations who had over 2,000 employees the majority unionized and had many in management tell us they wish they could unionize also but they'd be fired if they tried. Now do I think unions should be in all businesses? Not at all but they serve a vital purpose for their members and for people like you also. You just can't see it.
  • Defend ... Giantfan 2012/06/15 09:49:04
    Defend Western Civlization
    Unions are nothing but a way for Liberal Progressive democrats to get free money to use to RAPE AMERICA
  • Giantfan Defend ... 2012/06/15 18:04:27
    Giantfan
    My friend Defend. How you doing little buddy? It's nice to see you haven't mentally progressed yet.
  • Defend ... Giantfan 2012/06/16 20:03:09
    Defend Western Civlization
    i see more racist ignorance from you a Leader of the Liberal progressive DNC
  • Giantfan Defend ... 2012/06/17 02:41:13
    Giantfan
    +1
    What have you got against moving forward in your thought process? You do know the Dark Ages are long gone. It's time to move on.
  • activ1 John BNO 2012/06/15 09:16:32
    activ1
    First of all, you never "work for a Union". You work for an employer, and that employer comes to an AGREEMENT between itself and the employees, which is how you get a Collective Bargaining Agreement in the first place. The Union can't force itself on the employees. They have to vote them in. The Union represents the employees in their negotiations with the employer, but the employees DO NOT "work for the union", and to suggest so is absolutely ridiculous.

    Secondly, as long as there is a CBA in place, it forbids Union employees from striking, so I don't know where you got that idea.

    Your particular situation is very far from the norm. You are a guy who makes a six figure salary, so you are not like the average factory worker. Your company may have been great, and there are some who do treat their people well, and share the profits with them, but there are far more others who refuse to share any of the wealth, and that's why we are in the situation we are in today. Look at the gap between what the people at the top of corporations make, and what the average worker makes now, and compare it to 30 years ago, when Union representation was much stronger. If you want to buy into the right wing media propaganda that Unions are the cause of all of our problems, then be my guest.

    Only a...



    First of all, you never "work for a Union". You work for an employer, and that employer comes to an AGREEMENT between itself and the employees, which is how you get a Collective Bargaining Agreement in the first place. The Union can't force itself on the employees. They have to vote them in. The Union represents the employees in their negotiations with the employer, but the employees DO NOT "work for the union", and to suggest so is absolutely ridiculous.

    Secondly, as long as there is a CBA in place, it forbids Union employees from striking, so I don't know where you got that idea.

    Your particular situation is very far from the norm. You are a guy who makes a six figure salary, so you are not like the average factory worker. Your company may have been great, and there are some who do treat their people well, and share the profits with them, but there are far more others who refuse to share any of the wealth, and that's why we are in the situation we are in today. Look at the gap between what the people at the top of corporations make, and what the average worker makes now, and compare it to 30 years ago, when Union representation was much stronger. If you want to buy into the right wing media propaganda that Unions are the cause of all of our problems, then be my guest.

    Only a small percentage of the American workforce is Union, but they still send our manufacturing jobs overseas, and have been for a long time.

    Answer me this question:

    If Unions are the problem, why aren't all of these companies manufacturing their goods in the so called "Right to Work" States instead of China and India?
    (more)
  • John BNO activ1 2012/06/15 17:37:38
    John BNO
    You first point is totally correct and I stand corrected.
    The second point needs some clarification. The particular job that I was referring to were jobs that were won by union contracts. We were non-union and were installing specialized equipment. The client was told that if non-union workers entered the building that they union workers would shut down the construction site.
    I'm not sure that I would say my situation was "far from the norm". There are five major medical xray companies doing business in the US and all have field service structures that are similar. Years ago I lived in Rochester, NY where Kodak had thousands of employee who were all non-union, as did Xerox. I've just never been interested in letting someone else bargain with my employer to determine my pay or benefits. Just my personal opinion. Have a great weekend.
  • activ1 John BNO 2012/06/16 20:41:56
    activ1
    Thanks for an intelligent and respectful response. To the first point, shutting down a site is not the same thing as going on strike. For instance, if the electricians refuse to supply power to non union workers or facilities, then they are shutting down the site, but they are not on strike. The fault really lies with the client, who should know that they can't get away with that when they are working under a CBA. We have clients who try to be dishonest, and weasel their way around the contract that they AGREED to all the time, and then feign outrage when the Union responds in that way.

    By saying that your situation is far from the norm, I mean that you are obviously a highly specialized and skilled individual, who has the ability to negotiate directly with a client. The average working class American really doesn't have that ability, and is fearful of approaching management because they are considered to be no better than cattle by the Corporations. There is only strength in numbers for them, and that's why they organize.

    I grew up a block down the street from a manufacturing plant owned by a big Pharma company(Wyeth Labs). It was the main employer for our town.They were non-union, and they paid well, and paid good benefits, and almost everyone in town worked there, including ...
    Thanks for an intelligent and respectful response. To the first point, shutting down a site is not the same thing as going on strike. For instance, if the electricians refuse to supply power to non union workers or facilities, then they are shutting down the site, but they are not on strike. The fault really lies with the client, who should know that they can't get away with that when they are working under a CBA. We have clients who try to be dishonest, and weasel their way around the contract that they AGREED to all the time, and then feign outrage when the Union responds in that way.

    By saying that your situation is far from the norm, I mean that you are obviously a highly specialized and skilled individual, who has the ability to negotiate directly with a client. The average working class American really doesn't have that ability, and is fearful of approaching management because they are considered to be no better than cattle by the Corporations. There is only strength in numbers for them, and that's why they organize.

    I grew up a block down the street from a manufacturing plant owned by a big Pharma company(Wyeth Labs). It was the main employer for our town.They were non-union, and they paid well, and paid good benefits, and almost everyone in town worked there, including my Father. They paid well, but they could be quite abusive at times, including forced overtime without notice. Every time the employees talked about organizing, they would threaten to move the jobs to Puerto Rico. Eventually, the employees were scared off from organizing and things would return to normal. This went on for the life of the facility. After all those years of non-union workers devoting their lives to the company, who made Billions of dollars in profits from the fruits of their labor, they moved the jobs to Puerto Rico anyway. Have a great weekend.
    (more)
  • Red_Horse 2012/06/12 04:00:02
  • ComeOnNow 2012/06/12 03:49:15
    Protecting Workers-RTW
    ComeOnNow
    +6
    It is protecting jobs. I volunteer with the local economic council and there is not one large company that visits without asking about the strength of the unions when deciding where to locate. They also send people to go and schmooze businesses when their workers strike. Between the unions, higher taxes, and regulations in Illinois. We are working on bringing CAT to our area. The difference between what the spoiled part pluggers there make and what it would take to replace them can buy them almost all new equipment. You union people keep that in mind
  • beach bum 2012/06/12 03:06:19
    Undecided
    beach bum
    unsure
  • Texas Johnny 2012/06/12 02:59:48
    Protecting Workers-RTW
    Texas Johnny
    +3
    You have a right in this country to associate with whoever you wish, but it should not be coerced into an association in order to get a job. Look at the job growth in those right to work states. Many of them have low or non-existent personal income taxes as well and a lot more small business friendly laws. Right to work is just the start.
  • dave s 2012/06/12 02:51:06
    Protecting Workers-RTW
    dave  s
    +7
    mandatory union membership in some states just doesn't seem to fit the mold of liberty and freedom
  • urwutuis 2012/06/12 02:49:29
    Undecided
    urwutuis
    +3
    I don't see right to work as protecting workers and while I'm no fan of unions I can see a need for united labor since the unwritten law of paying people enough for a family to survive on a single income no longer applies.

    Of course, either way it would require available jobs and I don't know about other places but it's dead around here.
  • Andrew urwutuis 2012/06/12 10:29:08
    Andrew
    +1
    The question is, should you as a free American, be forced to join a union and pay dues if you choose NOT to do so?!
  • urwutuis Andrew 2012/06/12 23:19:45
    urwutuis
    Are they being forced any more than any other job requirement?
    Should you be forced to pay for a college degree or buy specific clothing?

    The reasons unions were created still exist. It's a systemic problem of capitalism. It automatically creates an adversarial relationship between management and labor.
  • Andrew urwutuis 2012/06/13 07:24:22
    Andrew
    +1
    A private company has every right to require its workers to dress a certain way or have a specific degree. Over their own business the owners are sovereign and can require what they like. They can even require their own workers to be a part of the union if that is who the decide to handle the negotiations with. Government, on the other hand has ZERO authority to command the free individual to belong to any such organization or to require businesses to either negotiate with the union. It is up to the union to meet the needs of the worker so that the worker desires to become a part of that union!
  • urwutuis Andrew 2012/06/13 19:03:47 (edited)
    urwutuis
    I';m not sure where I* stand on this. I can agree with your reasoning but still see a need for some type of worker protection or we'll end up with the same sweat shops that existed before.
    Without unions there would be no such thing as overtime pay, a 40 hr wk., workman's comp or paid vacation.

    The only way I can think of that would improve the situation is if labor gets a piece of the action and a say in company decisions. In essence I think the employees should be the stock holders
    I don't understand why we demand democracy everywhere except where we spend most of our time.
  • Andrew urwutuis 2012/06/14 07:35:19
    Andrew
    Try coming to my house and demanding democracy. You'll be shown the door and I have every right to do so. Same with private business. You are there at the whim of the owners. You also have the right to leave whenever you don't like the conditions! That is the essence of private property rights.
  • urwutuis Andrew 2012/06/14 17:00:13
    urwutuis
    I know how it works. I've been in business since '88. I just don't necessarily agree with it.
  • Defend ... urwutuis 2012/06/15 09:50:36
    Defend Western Civlization
    +1
    well to bad this is America not communist/Muslim terrorist hell hole
  • urwutuis Defend ... 2012/06/15 14:05:44
    urwutuis
    Yeah, too bad.
  • Andrew urwutuis 2012/06/15 20:02:50
    Andrew
    I'm sure you an find some third world nation that likes it otherwise.
  • urwutuis Andrew 2012/06/16 01:55:08
  • Andrew urwutuis 2012/06/16 14:39:24
    Andrew
    Right! And of course there is no wealth that you didn't earn to confiscate either!
  • urwutuis Andrew 2012/06/17 01:19:30
    urwutuis
    What do you think I am, a bank?
  • Andrew urwutuis 2012/06/17 10:33:43
    Andrew
    No, a Socialist!
  • urwutuis Andrew 2012/06/17 23:33:09
  • Andrew urwutuis 2012/06/18 07:23:26
    Andrew
    When I see a duck, I have no compunction to call it a chicken!
  • urwutuis Andrew 2012/06/18 15:18:08
    urwutuis
    Such is the nature of propaganda.
  • Lady Wh... urwutuis 2012/06/12 12:49:52
    Lady Whitewolf
    +1
    well said!
  • roboto-pwcm-jla 2012/06/12 02:28:47
    Protecting Workers-RTW
    roboto-pwcm-jla
    +3
    Several years ago we priced a metal building in a heavily unionized area. The local union contractors wanted over 400K to install just the roofing and wall panels (excluding the structural steel). We could have traveled 6 hours, paid travel time, per diem, and paid the hotel, and erected the entire building for under 200K. In the end, we sold the owner a precast concrete building for less than the metal box would have cost.

    We do have some union employee's--the good ones will outwork anyone, and never get laid off.
  • EdVenture 2012/06/12 02:16:35
    Undecided
    EdVenture
    +3
    Two-fold strategy by gop/special interests. They want to bust the unions so that they can abuse the workers and remove good faith negotiation and fair representation, in essence not be accountable. In addition, the are using this platform to divide hard working people and dividing them into groups pitting them against each other, as evidenced by Walker. United we stand divided we fall guys, don't know if u get it though.
  • dave s EdVenture 2012/06/12 02:46:56
    dave  s
    +3
    gee, you failed to mention that those evil repubs want to boil babies alive as well.

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