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IS OBAMACARE FAIR OR UNCONSTITIONAL?

Jaiheena Star 2012/03/31 20:29:07
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If you think Obamacare is unfair and unconstitutional give a rave.

Questions: How can the government penalize a citizen for not being covered? Where is the freedom of choice? Some adults and certain religious bodies don't believe in doctors or medicine, while other others believe in alternative medicine, herbs, witch doctors, native american indian medicne, and etc...
Has Obama thought about this? He claims to be such a great leader and a understanding man in power.

http://shsblog.org/2012/03/29/obamacare/
http://www.conservapedia.com/ObamaCare

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Top Opinion

  • GUAPO~LMAO!~ 2012/03/31 21:58:30
    Obamacare is unfair and unconstitutional :(
    GUAPO~LMAO!~
    +5
    Obamacare is unfair, unconstitutional and WE CAN'T AFFORD IT, WE ARE BROKE!!!

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  • 2012/07/04 00:27:09
    Obamacare is unfair and unconstitutional :(
    +1
    The law itself cannot stand IMO because it removes the freedom NOT TO participate in such a system. Why exactly should I pay for what they definite as health insurance when I practice Ayurveda and Acupuncture instead? Those are not covered under the supposed health plans they offer, and yet they were systems of health in China and India etc. No one can tell me where I should pursue health, damn westernized ideas cannot help incurable illness's like fibromyalgia or painful bladder syndrome, etc. They just laugh at you in western systems if you complain of these things. No thanks USA.

    And what if I want to quit my job where I have health insurance, but doing so would mean I loose it because I do not yet have another job? Am I permitted to leave or forced to stay in my position merely because I'd be fined for leaving it! I'm seeing all kinds of unjust issues arising with little answers that are fair. Sorry
  • Gooky 2012/04/01 11:22:45
    Obamacare is unfair and unconstitutional :(
    Gooky
    +1
    As thick as that sumbitch is...i think we need a bonfire!
    bonfire gif
  • mich52 2012/04/01 01:08:23
    Undecided
    mich52
    NO ONE on SH is in a postion of authority or intelligent enough to decide if it unconstitutional or not... That's why we have the judicial branch of government.
  • Matthew... mich52 2012/10/23 02:05:56
    Matthew Schmidt
    +1
    Wrong! 100% incorrect! Was MLK an athority to repeal unjust laws against Black Americans? Of course he was! It was unjust and against him. I will follow in his footsteps and not pay my taxes untill repealed, if it were instated. How can you tell someone to ignore their religious and personal beliefs? I do not and will not have coverage, unless i absolutly need it. I am a very healthy Marine Corps Veteran and do not feel I need it.. So tell me how it's right that i gotta pay for some broken individual that has not made the effort to have the means to provide for themselves? Thats right, you cannot, therefore you just answered the question on if Obamacare is just. Please read a history book.
  • mich52 Matthew... 2012/10/23 04:02:27 (edited)
    mich52
    I read at least one book a month, I'm reading about the US Army's rescue of Americans, etc from the Philipines (Cabanatuan)..

    So, you're wrong on that point, from what I'm seen I don't need to correct you anymore unless you can say something more intelligent... Pick a subject, an issue, if you can....

    Serious, say something intelligent.
  • peggy 2012/04/01 00:22:02
    Obamacare is unfair and unconstitutional :(
    peggy
    +2
    Unfair...but fair if your a communist.
  • MichaelDillon 2012/04/01 00:15:12
    Obamacare is unfair and unconstitutional :(
    MichaelDillon
  • ConLibFraud 2012/03/31 23:50:35
    Obamacare is unfair and unconstitutional :(
    ConLibFraud
    +2
    America wake the phuck up!! We have the money and always have to be able to give everyone the medical assistance they need. It's our lying treasonous system and politicians and their banker owners who lie and deceive us so they can enslave us! Let's stop playing their game!!! Let's stop volunteering taxes and put them out of business and stop them from
    stealing trillions and trillions from us so they can live like rock stars while they enslave the rest!!! Let's put the romans in prison where they belong and let's take control of our country and our lives!!! Stop playing their phucking game!!!!
  • Mrs. V 2012/03/31 23:35:11
    Undecided
    Mrs. V
    Obamascare needs to be REPEALED and REPLACED.

    Yes, it is unconstitutional.
  • krayzrick 2012/03/31 23:26:58
    Obamacare is unfair and unconstitutional :(
    krayzrick
    +3
    I don't need. Don't want it. And I won't buy it. $crew you O'bummer.
  • MadAsHEck 2012/03/31 23:00:48
    Obamcare needs to be rewritten ASAP!
    MadAsHEck
    +2
    Some good reads on the subject. Especially Women should be fearful.

    New Data Strips Obama's Health Law of Its Rationales
    http://www.newsmax.com/McCaug...

    All Americans Don't Use Healthcare
    http://www.newsmax.com/McCaug...

    Obama Health Law Dangerous to Women
    http://www.newsmax.com/McCaug...

    Obamacare Places Controls on Women
    http://www.newsmax.com/McCaug...

    Of course the first thing that will be used in Rebuttal is it's source, not it's facts.
  • Jaiheen... MadAsHEck 2012/04/01 21:50:50
    Jaiheena Star
    Agreed! The church and government in your bedroom is too much and too hot to handle.
  • Jaiheen... MadAsHEck 2012/04/01 21:52:07
    Jaiheena Star
    Obama governing my medical care and expenses, a recipe for disaster.
  • flaca BN-0 2012/03/31 22:37:47
    Undecided
    flaca BN-0
    +2
    How can insured people be penalized by forcing them to pay for those who are not insured but can afford to be?
  • GUAPO~LMAO!~ 2012/03/31 21:58:30
    Obamacare is unfair and unconstitutional :(
    GUAPO~LMAO!~
    +5
    Obamacare is unfair, unconstitutional and WE CAN'T AFFORD IT, WE ARE BROKE!!!
  • gregory.ditzler 2012/03/31 21:39:44
    Obamacare is awsome and meets everyones needs!
    gregory.ditzler
    It is the greatest legislation since the founding of Medicare and Medicaid, an important stepping stone towards Canadian style medicine.
  • MadAsHEck gregory... 2012/03/31 23:17:00 (edited)
    MadAsHEck
    +1
    Ignoring the fact that the original estimated cost of O'Care was 940 Billion and now is estimated to be 1.7 Trillion, there are other factors that a Kid like you have no clue about. While I and others who depend on the care have a good idea of what is coming.

    Why do wealthy canadians come to the USA for care?

    "The core problem here is that the Canadian health-care system is relying on an inefficient model for health-care policy, that is we have a preponderance of government in the health-care system," Esmail said. "Government is delivering health care and government is regulating health care."

    http://www.canada.com/health/...

    We met some folks during my wife's Cardiac treatment from Canada. My Wife had heart attack at 6 PM, and by 11 PM had been Helicoptered to the nearest Cardiac Care unit, had the procedure, and was in her room out of recovery.

    Lady from Canada had a Heart attack requiring Angioplasty, and they told her that it would be 10 days before they could get her the procdure. Husband loaded her into his car, drove to a Clinic in Blain, where she got Helicoptered to the same place as my wife and had the same quick results.

    If he was not a Successful Business man and able to afford immediate care, she might have had a Massive Coronary, or stroke during the 10...






















































    Ignoring the fact that the original estimated cost of O'Care was 940 Billion and now is estimated to be 1.7 Trillion, there are other factors that a Kid like you have no clue about. While I and others who depend on the care have a good idea of what is coming.

    Why do wealthy canadians come to the USA for care?

    "The core problem here is that the Canadian health-care system is relying on an inefficient model for health-care policy, that is we have a preponderance of government in the health-care system," Esmail said. "Government is delivering health care and government is regulating health care."

    http://www.canada.com/health/...

    We met some folks during my wife's Cardiac treatment from Canada. My Wife had heart attack at 6 PM, and by 11 PM had been Helicoptered to the nearest Cardiac Care unit, had the procedure, and was in her room out of recovery.

    Lady from Canada had a Heart attack requiring Angioplasty, and they told her that it would be 10 days before they could get her the procdure. Husband loaded her into his car, drove to a Clinic in Blain, where she got Helicoptered to the same place as my wife and had the same quick results.

    If he was not a Successful Business man and able to afford immediate care, she might have had a Massive Coronary, or stroke during the 10 day wait for surgery.

    Then there is the wait times and cost problems that are cropping up in Massechusetts after 5 yrs.

    Five years ago, Massachusetts’ then-Gov. Mitt Romney approved a new medical plan that requires almost all state residents to have health insurance, just as Obamacare’s individual mandate would for the entire nation.

    Today in Massachusetts, the wait time to see a doctor can be as long as seven weeks, and many doctors won’t accept patients in the subsidized insurance program. That does not bode well for national healthcare reform if it is fully implemented as planned by President Barack Obama and the Democrats.

    A new study by the Massachusetts Medical Society (MMS), which has 23,000 physicians and student members and publishes the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine, takes an in-depth look at healthcare in Massachusetts under the state program, which is often regarded as a model for Obama’s 2010 healthcare reforms. Among its findings:

    • The average wait time for an appointment with an internist is 48 days, and the wait time to see a family physician is 36 days.

    • The average wait time for pediatricians is 24 days, according to the MMS’s “2011 Study of Patient Access to Health Care.”

    • Access to primary care physicians is becoming more restricted — 53 percent of family physicians and 51 percent of internists are not accepting new patients.

    • Patients wait an average of 43 days to see a gastroenterologist, and 41 days to see an obstetrician/gynecologist.

    • While 87 percent of family physicians accept Medicare, only 62 percent accept MassHealth, the state’s version of Medicaid.

    • Only 56 percent of family physicians and 43 percent of internists accept Commonwealth Care, an insurance program for adults who don’t have private health insurance and don’t qualify for Medicare. Just 44 percent of family physicians and 35 percent of internists accept Commonwealth Choice, a program for uninsured adults that offers unsubsidized health insurance to people who are not eligible for Medicaid or Commonwealth Care.

    • Due, in part, to a shortage of doctors participating in the program, the number of emergency room visits has actually risen under the Massachusetts plan.

    “Massachusetts has made great strides in securing insurance coverage for its citizens, but insurance coverage doesn’t equal access to care,” said Alice Coombs, M.D., president of the MMS. “We still have much work to do to reduce wait times and widen access. This has important implications for healthcare cost control, as difficulty or delay with routine access to care leads people to seek other options, such as the emergency room, which is much more costly.”
    -----------------------------...

    Researchers at the Beacon Hill Institute (BHI) at Suffolk University in Boston found that the Bay State healthcare reform plan has led to increased healthcare expenditures and private health insurance costs, as well as additional payments for Medicare and Medicaid, for a total of $8.5 billion in new outlays.

    In 2006, Massachusetts enacted healthcare reform legislation that promised to extend healthcare coverage to all citizens while significantly lowering costs. The law imposes mandates on residents to obtain health insurance and on employers to provide it if they have 11 or more employees.

    It also expands Medicaid coverage, establishes a health insurance subsidy program, and creates an insurance exchange that helps those who are ineligible for Medicaid buy competitively priced health plans.

    The BHI report states: “Now that the law has been in effect for more than five years, we can begin to assess its impact on the state of Massachusetts.”

    Among the findings:

    • State healthcare expenditures have risen by $414 million over the five-year period.

    • Private health insurance costs have risen by $4.31 billion.

    • The federal government has spent an additional $2.41 billion on Medicaid in Massachusetts.

    • Medicare expenditures increased by $1.42 billion.

    The total cumulative cost over the period is just over $8.5 billion.

    But the state has been able to shift the majority of the costs to the federal government, which continues to absorb a significant part of the cost of healthcare reform through enhanced Medicaid payments and the Medicare program — meaning Americans outside Massachusetts are helping to pay the bills for the healthcare plan.

    In analyzing the study’s results, the researchers observe: “Cost-containment is often a major goal of health reform plans. However, this particular healthcare reform legislation did not provide an effective means for containing costs.

    “The promise of cost-containment rested on a vague hope that the newly insured would seek preventive care, access their primary care physicians earlier in their illness and avoid costly emergency room visits. Yet the number of emergency room visits rose from 2.351 million in 2006 to 2.521 million in 2009, or by 7.2 percent over the period. The total cost of emergency visits has soared by 36 percent over the period, or by $943 million.”

    The large number of newly insured residents in the state has increased demands on the primary care system, forcing patients to visit emergency rooms at a rate significantly higher than expected.

    The BHI report also states that “by increasing demand for healthcare services without an equal increase in their supply, the universal healthcare law guaranteed that the price of healthcare services and health insurance would increase.”
    (more)
  • gregory... MadAsHEck 2012/03/31 23:24:36
    gregory.ditzler
    Well I have heard different stories that say people are in and out by the next day and if they can't do it quickly in canada the canadian government pays for the care in the united states.
  • MadAsHEck gregory... 2012/03/31 23:44:34 (edited)
    MadAsHEck
    Actually they do not pay if the same care is available under their system. They will pay if one of their doctors sends you for some special treatment. And in this case, they would not pay as she could have waited her turn on the schedule.

    But again you would kill the messenger and ignore the fact that the message has merit. And you being 19, will be the one paying the big bucks.

    And O'care allows the government to determine who gets what care under a Return on Investment formula to be established by the IPAB. Which the GOP tried to get taken our of O"care but the Democratic Senate voted down. So if you are s Senior, and the cost of care you need is above the ROI formula, you will be referred to Pallitive care.

    Lots of interesting stuff in those 2700 pages that had to be passed before we could find out about it.

    Then you might find that this is interesting as well. A large percentage of Americans do not use the Healthcare system, and do not pay into it either. But under O'care you will have insurance, or be fined.

    My son opted out of his company Health insurance as he finds being healthy, and in his mid 30's there is no need.

    All Americans Don't Use Healthcare
    http://www.newsmax.com/McCaug...
  • Blue Smurf 2012/03/31 21:16:41
    Obamacare is unfair and unconstitutional :(
    Blue Smurf
    +3
    its stupid and doesnt do anything to helps its only there to make him look good.
  • Striker Blue Smurf 2012/03/31 23:43:19
    Striker
    +2
    and it doesn't make him look good, it makes him look like the communist he is.
  • FUS RO DAH! 2012/03/31 21:15:28
    Undecided
    FUS RO DAH!
    I don't know what Obamacare is?
  • krayzrick FUS RO ... 2012/03/31 23:22:56
    krayzrick
    +2
    jeez....I hope you didn't vote.
  • LAAD Gu... FUS RO ... 2012/03/31 23:58:53
    LAAD Gunner - USMC
    +1
    I hope to God you're not serious
  • Gooky FUS RO ... 2012/04/01 11:20:49
    Gooky
    You live here????In the United States?
  • FAWKES' NOOSE ~ ΔTX 2012/03/31 20:57:25
    Obamacare is awsome and meets everyones needs!
    FAWKES' NOOSE ~ ΔTX
    The Affordable Care Act is in the interest of the general welfare of the nation and is therefore Constitutional.

    Precedent of Individual Mandate: FICA, Social Security/Medicare.
  • Jaiheen... FAWKES'... 2012/03/31 21:03:59 (edited)
    Jaiheena Star
    +1
    Obama is trying to rid our nation of the constitution. Obama doesn't understand or know what the constitution stands for.
  • FAWKES'... Jaiheen... 2012/03/31 23:18:34
    FAWKES' NOOSE ~ ΔTX
    Tell us what it stands for.
  • Jaiheen... FAWKES'... 2012/04/01 21:55:05
    Jaiheena Star
    Obama as changed the constitution's purpose to suit himself.
  • Primiti... FAWKES'... 2012/03/31 21:14:15
    Primitive Christian
    Fawkes my friend neither of the programs you mention here require you to purchase a for profit product from a 3rd party. That is a significant difference. My preference is a single payer socialized program which if passed through congress would be constitutional (and would be a more accurate comparison to Medicare/Medicaid) . As it stands I have to agree that the PPACA is not constitutional. Admittedly I am not an attorney thus I am confident in accepting the ruling of the SCOTUS. If they rule it is constitutional then I submit to their greater knowledge.
  • FAWKES'... Primiti... 2012/03/31 23:17:37 (edited)
    FAWKES' NOOSE ~ ΔTX
    Irrelevant. Individuals are mandated to contribute to their retirement and senior health care through FICA.

    But now that you mention it, The Ryan Budget in fact does require purchase of a for profit product from a 3rd party. Imagine that.
  • Primiti... FAWKES'... 2012/03/31 23:34:28
    Primitive Christian
    I don't support the Ryan Budget either but I'm not sure what you are referring to. As for your first sentence it is entirely relevant if the government is found to have the ability to force the purchase of products from a 3rd party which makes a profit from the sale then the door opens to any product. As one of the justices said broccoli is good for us what prevents the government from forcing us to buy broccoli (paraphrase)? Or would you support the government mandating our diets? That example by the way can be expanded to literally hundreds of thousands of products. Slippery slope is only a logical fallacy because it isn't always true, but often it is.
  • MadAsHEck Primiti... 2012/03/31 23:49:48
    MadAsHEck
    +1
    I did not see where Ryans Plan in any mandated purchase of insurance. But then I'll be those that discount it haven't read all 2700 pages of O'care yet.

    But can see what the results will be based on the first 5 years of Romneycare in Massechusetts.
  • Primiti... MadAsHEck 2012/03/31 23:59:57
    Primitive Christian
    I'm not exactly sure what he is referring to. I won't claim he's wrong I certainly haven't read the proposed budget, I've only read a few commentaries on it.
  • MadAsHEck Primiti... 2012/04/01 00:10:18
    MadAsHEck
    Modernizing the Medicaid Benefit and Protecting Medicare Beneficiary Choice. The health security for low‐income families and American seniors is threatened by the outdated formulas and exploding costs of Medicaid and Medicare. These vital programs require significant reforms to better balance value for those beneficiaries in greatest need and protection for U.S. taxpayers.

    The Patients’ Choice Act would make important improvements to both programs without limiting eligibility or benefits by:
    • Integrating low‐income families with dependent children into higher‐quality private plans through direct
    assistance
    • Removing the stigma of Medicaid and providing access to the same coverage options available to all Americans
    • Realigning responsibility between federal and state governments in order to better coordinate benefits by
    requiring the Medicare program to assume Medicaid responsibility of premiums, cost‐sharing, and deductibles
    for low‐income seniors
    • Rebalancing long‐term care services to ensure choice between institutionalized and home‐based care
    • Empowering Medicare beneficiaries with more choices and more power by reforming Medicare Advantage
    • Allowing for the creation of Medicare Accountable Care Organizations that would improve payment to
    physicians, hospitals, pharmacists, an...



    Modernizing the Medicaid Benefit and Protecting Medicare Beneficiary Choice. The health security for low‐income families and American seniors is threatened by the outdated formulas and exploding costs of Medicaid and Medicare. These vital programs require significant reforms to better balance value for those beneficiaries in greatest need and protection for U.S. taxpayers.

    The Patients’ Choice Act would make important improvements to both programs without limiting eligibility or benefits by:
    • Integrating low‐income families with dependent children into higher‐quality private plans through direct
    assistance
    • Removing the stigma of Medicaid and providing access to the same coverage options available to all Americans
    • Realigning responsibility between federal and state governments in order to better coordinate benefits by
    requiring the Medicare program to assume Medicaid responsibility of premiums, cost‐sharing, and deductibles
    for low‐income seniors
    • Rebalancing long‐term care services to ensure choice between institutionalized and home‐based care
    • Empowering Medicare beneficiaries with more choices and more power by reforming Medicare Advantage
    • Allowing for the creation of Medicare Accountable Care Organizations that would improve payment to
    physicians, hospitals, pharmacists, and nurses for demonstrable improvements in quality and patient satisfaction
    while reducing costs
    • Requiring wealthy Medicare beneficiaries to contribute a little more for their care under Medicare Part D

    http://paulryan.house.gov/Upl...
    (more)
  • Primiti... MadAsHEck 2012/04/01 00:29:43
    Primitive Christian
    Hmmm. It doesn't really make clear if participation would be required or voluntary but admittedly it seems they are at least implying that participation would be mandatory.
  • MadAsHEck Primiti... 2012/04/01 02:36:11
    MadAsHEck
    Where did you read that?

    You are aware that us seniors have Medicare deducted from our Social Security Payments monthly, and have no ability to opt out of it.
  • Primiti... MadAsHEck 2012/04/01 02:47:23
    Primitive Christian
    No, I meant participation in the alternative programs. (if they are alternative) That's my question, is it proposed that these changes be optional or mandatory?
  • FAWKES'... Primiti... 2012/04/01 00:08:04
    FAWKES' NOOSE ~ ΔTX
    Replacement of existing Medicare with a voucher system to purchase coverage from a 3rd party 'for-profit' carrier using pool funds collected through FICA.

    individual Mandate. OK for Conservatives. Not OK of the President.
  • Primiti... FAWKES'... 2012/04/01 00:08:58
    Primitive Christian
    Is proposed to be mandated or optional?

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