Is Obama a Better President Than Bush?

GWB was bad enough, adding 4+ TRILL to national debt in 8 yrs., but did not nationalize any thing that I know of. 0 is much worse. 0 has added 5+ TRILL & counting in less than 4 years & engineered nationalization of some of the auto industry & some financial institutions & 0care will nationalize the health industry.

I KNOW I am not better off under GWB's 4+TRILL. 0's 5+ TRILL & his so called stimulus junk, have not made my life any better either. When 0care hits I am sure I'll be even worse off.

I doubt if Romney & Ryan will do much better. We must not forget that 0care is modeled after RomCare. Ryan's votes show him to be a big govt spender.

The song says "We won't be fooled again!" but we have been. The "Anybody but 0!" mantra is the same trick used to hand us 0. In Romney & Ryan, all we get is another 0. All we got in 0 was another Bush. The only diff is that 0 is doing what Bush did, only more at a faster pace. The ONLY hope I see in the Big Govt. Party's R wing is a change in letters behind the name. If all we do is switch R's for D's & vice versa, nothing will change. That is why under 0 little has changed for the better.

We need to look at the candidates more deeply. Their talk must be verified as their walk.
Ron Paul walks his talk. He is not perfect & some do not agree with all his platform. But he is the only veteran & Constitutionalist running.

Continuing to ignore Ron Paul based on disingenuous fringe media propaganda is going to hurt this country very badly. Dr. Paul is the only major 'party' candidate who is a true fiscal conservative. Ron is also a true believer in, & would be guided by, the Constitution. Ron also knows & would follow what our Founders intended.

You can say whatcha want; malign, vilify & mis-represent what Ron Paul stands for, but doing so only shows a lack of honest research.

SamFox

I can tell you one thing...Bush is a way better commander in chief than Obama. Just recently there was a news story on how Bush went on a three day mountain bike ride with some of the troops who received a purple heart from him. Obama would never do that. Obama doesn't care enough to have a relationship with the troops. So many of our troops respect Bush more than Obama. I know this cause my oldest brother is in the military and he knows how people feel about the presidents. He's a SSG in the Army. The Democrats are the ones who started the debt. Yes the republicans didn't do much until it was too late, but Obama is spending money like theres no tomorrow. Now since re-election year is coming up Obama is getting worried now he's finally doing something! Whatever his unexperienced brain can handle but he'll need to bring along his telleprompters cause we all know he can't live without those! Bush does too have Christian attributes, I don't know how you can say that..Republicans are against everything that is anti-christian..I think you need a reality check. Republicans are against gay marriage, abortions, and all that. So I don't know where your getting you "logic" from, but where ever you are getting it from you might want to rethink what your saying. So actually your logic is wrong in that you think Obama is better, because clearly Bush is better from what I just told you and much much more. So become an informed American a watch more than just the Democratic news stations. I watch both CNN and Fox because I want to know whats going on, on both sides. So please don't judge unless you know what your talking about. Thank you~from all the informed Americans (AKA Republicans).

Well, firstly the Sermon on the mount states 'Blessed are the Peacemakers' and that is something that can never in a million years be associated with Mr George Bush. He pushed through a war based on WOD which were never in Iraq. A 'lie' in laymans terms. He and his Republican cronies are responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths, including American soldiers, but mostly innocent civilians. He also personally sanctioned waterboarding (designated as torture by the UN) on American territory. These are princliples that I find inconsistent with Christianity).

Obama is trying to withdraw troops and re-engage with the UN - in Libya he was instrumental in the initiation phase of the NATO operations which liberated the Libyan people. Unlike George Bush who had next to no international support for launching his illegal war in the Middle-East. There are so many contrast to Bush and Obama and they all tell i the favour of Obama. How Bush could even write his own speech is beyond me. He was a clown who should have been in a circus - not in the Whitehouse.

There is more to Christianity than being anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage. Christianity to me is about love, tolerance, peace, respect, social justice and alleviating the plight of the poor. On all counts Republicans fall short. They are a stain on the good name of America and their foreign policy aggression has made the USA both a laughing stock in the international community and target for international terrorism.

I don't judge. I just observe. Ron Paul has finally realised the same thing. He's admitting what the whole world had known for decades - the foreign policy epitomised by Bush and cronies was not just wrong but self serving and counter productive.

By the way I watch neither Fox or CNN and I am not a die-hard liberal. I agree with the Democrats on a lot of issues and can also sympathise with policies on the Republican side too. I feel too angry and upset with the previous administration to condemn Obama as he is trying to rectify the foreign policy abominations of Bush and his fellow conspirators. As a Christian I think it is reprehensible that you can even condone the merderous and unrepentant regime of Bush. America is waking up to the mistakes of the past. Ron Paul is being honest with his assessment and is articulating what the world already knew. Republicans are taking the first steps to acknowledging their own part in the global chaos that has transpired post Iraq. Instead of supporting Bush, why don't you do the Christian thing and admit that Iraq was based on a lie, Bush condoned and sanctioned torture and 9/11 was used as a rue to settle old scores.

This is a very old thread. Why are you even on here?

Actually I am very much a christian. I whole heartedly believe in God. I know all about being a christian I have been to church every sunday of my life, I've been to national youth gatherings, and much more. I'm still learning about God and I love it. I know the ten commandments the apostles creed and all of that that is in my catechism book. So I do know what Christians are all about and what Christians believe. How many of the ten commandment do you or try to follow? Do you give thanks to God for everything that happens to you. Do you repent for the sins you have done. These are also thing Christian do before all the Earthly things. The bible says love one another like a brother or sister can you say that everyone you meet you don't judge or belittle because of differences. Its human nature to do so. Thats why we have prayer for these things to ask God forgiveness for our wrong doings. You say you don't judge but yet you call Bush a clown? Why do Democrats then want to take the ten commandments out of the courts. Or take In God We Trust off our money. This country was based on the foundation of Christianity can you explain to me why Democrats want to do this? Because I don't understand it.

But I do believe in the toucher of terrorist to a point. Its funny that you would bring up water boarding..Water boarding doesn't hurt them it just scared them into telling us information. Why do you think that is so wrong when we have saved so many lives by doing this? Do you not consider what our soldiers go through when they are kidnapped? Our troops get their fingernails pulled off one by one. They get their fingers and toes cut off one by one. Don't you think this kind of torture and much more of what terrorists do to our troops is way worse that pouring water on someones head?

We went to war for a reason. We went for 9/11. Another reason was for the WOD. It has been proven that there were WOD but they were moved. There was a bunker that held the WOD. My brother joined the military to fight for our country. We have military for a reason. The US was attacked by four planes. Should our country not fight back and show that you can't attack the US and expect us to do nothing? I think not, otherwise we would be no more. Why is it that if this was for WWI or WWII or the Cold War or Pearl Harbor that everyone would be supporting our troops? Why aren't people supporting our troops for the war against Iraq and Afghanistan. We would be done with the war if it wasn't for the media. My brother say that if the military would be able to do its job like we've always done we would be out of this war already. Did you know that since we have pulled out more troops we have had more US military deaths than we did with Bush? Hmmm...interesting isn't it.

"Afghanistan was dubbed ‘Obama’s War’ last night after it was revealed that as many American soldiers have died in the conflict during his presidency as during George Bush’s entire time in office. According to the latest death tally, 575 U.S. troops have lost their lives in Afghanistan in the 20 months since Barack Obama took office in January last year. That is the same number of fatalities the U.S. military suffered under Mr Bush, who launched the Afghan invasion nine years ago in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks. With his White House honeymoon well and truly over, Mr Obama is no longer able to blame his country’s travails on the previous administration."
Last updated at 1:55 AM on 19th August 2010.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/ne...

See picture below please :)
Also Bush's war wasn't illegal. He got confirmation first and sent the troops out. Later is when they tried to say they didn't give him permission but its on record as he did actually get permission. So check the facts before you say something like that ok thanks :). Not being mean but you don't want to misinform the others who are reading this. Obama the one who didn't get confirmation from congress about Libya until he already did it. He did this while he was on vacations (again). So make sure you know who's the one whos doing the illegal stuff first please and thanks you.

If Democrats are supposed to be such peace keepers than why did Obama spend billions of dollars to send missiles and attack Lybia? Obama said when he was campaigning that he would never attack another country without it attacking the US. Lybia didn't attack the US so that was a huge contradiction.

I don't even like Ron Paul so I really don't care what he has to say. Not trying to be mean by this comment. I'm just sayin'.

At least Bush wrote his own speeches. I sure know Obama couldn't do it. and if you watch its kind of funny to see him look right and left all the time and how he never looks straight into the camera.

How can you be an informed citizen if you don't watch the news? How can you make judgements about something if you've never watched it? Obama hasn't done anything! I don't know how you can say he's done anything.

Sorry I didn't check the date of when you posted this. Is it wrong of me to stand up for the Republican side of things? I think not. Its freedom of speech and I have the right to comment on something (even if it is an old post) to stand up to what I believe in.

You sound like a nice person even though we disagree on all the major points of your post.

I will respond to a number of your points with the limited time I have available.

1) I think waterboarding is wrong because it has been deemed as a method of torture by the UN. Nearly every other democratic country rejects such methods of acquiring intelligence with David Cameron rightly pointing out that such methods are counter-productive. People will say anything if they think it will save their lives. You are simply trying to justify the unjustifiable - how can America possibly be an example to the rest of the world if they engage in the very thing they are fighting. I dispute your assertion that lives were saved by using waterboarding - Neo Conservatives are proven liars - they said that there was WMD in Iraq. There wasn't. They said that Guantanomo Bay had the worst of the worst - it has now been proven that innocent men (some as old as 80 years of old) had been detained and treated to inhumane treatment. But I expect you will somehow try and justify that too.

I also find your argument in which you attempt to justify torture rather disturbing. You somehow try and equate what terrorists do with what the US government should be allowed to do. Just because some militants torture their captives doesn't legitimise state sanctioned torture. It just makes us look as bad as the terrorists. And to describe waterboarding as 'pouring water over somebody's head' is rather dismissive of a technique which is essentially a simulation of drowning - and is utterly terrifiying - its the sort of technique in which if applied would lead to false information being offered by the captives - perhaps this was where the genesis of the WOMD misinformation comes from.

And what if the captives were innocent? Like the innocent detainees at Gunatanomo Bay? 'Pouring water over their head' would be the perfect answer wouldn't it? You have tried (unsuccessfully) to justify torture. Unless you wish the US to descend further into illegal and underhand operations on a par with the people we are 'at war' with then I would dispense with the half-hearted justfication of what has been deemed illegal by every other right-thinking country in the world.

2)The invasion of Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11. The terrorists who flew those planes into the twin towers were from Saudi Arabia not Iraq. Iraq was an act of aggression conceived by Neo Conservatives who sought to take advantage of the outrage spilling over in the USA post 9/11. Even the US chief prosecutor at the Nuremburg trials in 1946 has stated in recent years that the war in Iraq was not only illegal but an 'aggressive war' on a par with the overt aggression of the Nazi regime. The war in Iraq had nothing to do with WMD (they were never found and never existed). It wasn't about liberation - otherwise Zimbabwe would have been 'liberated' too as their civilians were at much greater risk than those in Iraq (although Zimbabwe tellingly did not have any oil).

There were no WOMD in Iraq. I am incredulous that even at this juncture, when the rest of the world is drawing a line under the debacle in Iraq and have accepted the obvious truth that there were no such weapons there, that you would still spew the same desperate and despicable lies for no other reason other than political expediency. The CIA's top weapon inspector has categorically said that no weapons have been found. If there was even an inclination that there were such weapons then the neo-conservative movement in the US would have jumped on such evidence to justify their illegal war. No such evidence emerged (much to the disdain of the neo conservative movement) and none ever existed.

3) "Why aren't people supporting our troops" Because Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. The Taliban didn't plan 9/11. The troops only deserve support when they are engaged in a just war. Do you ever spare a thought for the 60,000 innocent civilians killed by coalition forces in Iraq while you are pondering the 3000 people lost in the twin towers? Or is there blood less precious? The whole argument about going to war because of 9/11 is wearing a little thin now. Al Quaeda are terrorists and as such they are not in a position to declare war on anybody. They are criminals - and should not be referred to as criminals. You give them too much credit by implying that the USA are at 'war.' The civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan are at much greater risk at being killed by US forces than US citizens are at being killed by Al Quaeda. I'm sure as a Christian this must deeply upset you as surely Afghan and Iraqi blood is just as precious as US blood.

4) The war in Iraq was illegal. Kofi Annan said as much after the invasion took place. The war was not sanctioned by the UN. The war was therefore illegal under international law. Waterboarding is illegal under internation law. Both were personally sanctioned by GWB. I'm sure you will find a justification for both. No other country in the world (or in the coalition) is even trying to justify the invasion of Iraq anymore and here we are in the US still clinging onto some legitimacy for the motives pertaining to the illegal invasion.

I think it is wrong for you to revise history and assert that the war in Iraq was legal. To do so would be to misinform those reading this forum. The UN chief Kofi Annan has stated categorically that the war in Iraq was illegal. Unless you have more authority than Kofi Anna and were in a leadership position in the UN at the time of the illegal war, then I'm afraid that the war in Iraq, was indeed illegal.

5) Do you want to know the difference between Iraq and Libya? Thought you'd never ask. Firstly, the Libya situation involved the immediate threat to large numbers of civilians in Libya. Iraq did not. Libya had the overwhelming support of the international community. Iraq did not. US forces did not invade Libya. They did in Iraq. Libya was an overwhelming success. Iraq was an overwhelming disaster. The US can hold their head high because of the involvement in Libya. The US can hang their heads in shame over Iraq.

I am not sure that you fully understand international politics. You assert that the US attacked Libya. The US were protecting Libyan citizens - something that they (Libyans) are very grateful for. Libya is grateful for the US and the UK and their involvement in Libya. In contrast, Iraqi civlians have been slaughtered by coalition focres in their thousands. US forces are despised in Iraq. And there is still no prospect of civil stability in Iraq.

6) Your comments regarding Obama looking left and right are confirmation that he speaks to those around him rather than looking a little lost and forgetting his lines. Lets not get into presidential speeches as George Bush will come out second every time. There are whole videos devoted to George Bush and his ineptitude in delivering presidential speeches.

We disagree in everything. The only thing i perceive in your comments is a supremacist 'USA can do anything they want' attitude that spills over with complete indifference to the plight of anybody but US citizens. I have learnt one thing since finding God. That is that love transcends national borders and party politics. Like I said before, there are elements of Republican policies that I really like. I like the overt references to God but unfortunately the attitutude of some Republican candidates is so extreme and hostile (to workers, women, immigrants, other nations) that I cannot reconcile their words with the spirit of Chistianity.

You don't know how dissapointed I am in reading comments by people who try and justify torture and an invasion that has cost the lives of thousands of innocent civilians As a nation, the US is still very far away from Christianity. Christianity has been ijacked by neo conservative foreign policy and white supermacy. I am white by the way.

chris, I'll go with a lot of your post.

I am on here, don't know about any one else, because of the title of the lead & because people may come late to the thread.

"Social justice" as defined by today's 'progressives' & 'liberals' [with other peeps' $] was NOT taught in the Bible. Bible "tolerance" does not include sanctioning deviant sexual behavior, be it fornication, adultery or homosexuality.

Lying, cheating & stealing are also verbotten. That's why the 10 Commandments, crosses & so on are under attack. Many do not want to be reminded of these & what they represent because the symbols are against all the dishonesty in govt. By the way, taking them down is the true violation of the Constitution. Only CONGRESS is addressed in the document.

It's the "free exercise thereof" that is the true violation of the US Constitution. Plus the phase "separation of church & state" is NOT found there. "Nature's God" ring any bells? Look up the phrase "No king but Jesus". It was one of many rallying calls during our fight against the British.

"On all counts..." Repubs AND Dems fall very short.

Ron Paul did not recently "realize" the bad foreign policy of interventionism, which invites blowback as you pointed out. Ron has been on that one for many years. Ron is not "admitting" our FP is bad, not to mention illegal under the Constitution. Ron is pointing that out & again, has been doing so for many years.

I am also a Christian, since Nov., 1969.

Yeshua [Jesus] did not come to start a new religion. He came to fulfill Old Covenant Judaism & set it aside as it was implemented originally. His followers fulfill the OT Law by being in Him. There is no other way we can fulfill His Royal Law.

Jesus said "This is the work of God. That you believe on Him who He has sent." Yeshua also said "The first & great commandment is this: You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind & soul. The second is this: You shall love your neighbor as your self. On these two hang all the Law & prophets."

You can find more for yourself at BibleGateway.com

Thank you.

SamFox