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Is it time to abandon Marx and Keynes for Milton Friedman and F.A. Hayek?

Conservative in California 2010/11/04 06:36:17
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  • NidStyles 2010/11/04 11:53:18
    No way....let's ride this Socialist train a bit further....
    NidStyles
    +6
    Who are we going to make fun of if they all switch to making sense.

    Honestly though, I think once they scar the American people enough, maybe the American people will learn their lesson.

    Note I selected this choice as a joke.

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  • BigTimeSynesthete 2011/04/15 18:40:40
    Something else
    BigTimeSynesthete
    Marxism and Keynsian economics are very different from each other, so DO NOT lump them together! I agree that Communism/socialism will never work in a country this large, but I think regulating capitalism is an absolute must, ESPECIALLY during a recession. There are so many people out of work right now, and many young college students including me had to sign up for financial aid in order to attend a university. Those that advocate for complete riddance of government have to be insanely optimistic; even the capitalist founder Adam Smith saw a purpose in government, which was to prevent out-of-loose chaos in the markets.

    Source: Global Social Change, University of California course
  • Conserv... BigTime... 2011/04/16 20:47:37
    Conservative in California
    thanks to government regulation, your college is so obscenely expensive.
  • Andrew 2010/11/07 03:20:12
    Now seems a good time as any
    Andrew
    +1
    We have to abandon socialism. It's bad for all of us.
  • Conserv... Andrew 2010/11/07 03:34:02
    Conservative in California
    It's not bad for the ruling class
  • Andrew Conserv... 2010/11/10 00:07:55
    Andrew
    True.
  • Beccy 2010/11/06 01:54:08
    Something else
    Beccy
    Maybe we could get the gOLDMAN Sauk men out of politics?
  • Striker 2010/11/05 17:42:51
    Something else
    Striker
    Long PAST time. Keynesian irrationality has much to do with America heading down the tubes.
  • Matt 2010/11/05 14:32:56
    Something else
    Matt
    Capitalism is alive and well, in the Cayman Islands. We are being "globalized" ! In order to do that, our wages and standard of living must go down. People must always have a place to live, but many are being turned into renters instead of homeowners. People will always have to eat, but the price is going way up, while the quality and number of suppliers is going down. Christians will always be at war with Muslims, but for your convenience, the battle is moving here !
  • nigel 2010/11/04 22:22:48
    Now seems a good time as any
    nigel
    +3
    I thinbk we should also ask if it isn't time to stop our public schools from being indoctrination camps for future Marxists? The "progressive" Dems don't want to say they are socialist/communist because those political philosophies violate the 5th and 14th Amendments and therefore cannot take the oath of office. These slime balls have been lying for years! I wonder how much FDR actually knew about who was on the list of communists in the government when he ignored that list so many decades ago.
  • Jackie 2010/11/04 21:36:58
    Now seems a good time as any
    Jackie
    +3
    The horror of Marxist and communist and socialism should always be condemned as atrocities of history that must never be emulated . But stomped out around the World.
  • nigel Jackie 2010/11/04 22:23:44
    nigel
    +4
    Ayn Rand's "We the Living" is a great book detailing the perils of socialism/communism!
  • Conserv... nigel 2010/11/05 02:09:46
    Conservative in California
    +3
    reading it would probably make blood shoot out of my eyes.
  • Lynn 2010/11/04 18:45:49
    Now seems a good time as any
    Lynn
    +5
    Keynes and Marx should have been abandoned 100 years ago.
  • Theresa 2010/11/04 16:43:30
    Now seems a good time as any
    Theresa
    +4
    I hope the stupid people in power will read F. A. Hayek!
  • nigel Theresa 2010/11/04 22:24:51
    nigel
    +3
    They wouldn't understand it! I have been having arguments with members of the opposite school of thought and they still will not admit that the country is angry with the Obama/socialist agenda!
  • Conserv... Theresa 2010/11/05 02:10:21
    Conservative in California
    +2
    I heard Road to Serfdom was one of Reagan's favorite books.
  • Racefish 2010/11/04 16:21:34
    Something else
    Racefish
    +5
    It's far passed time. Who ever thought Keynes was a good source for economic policy had to be a little deranged.
  • Conserv... Racefish 2010/11/05 02:11:39
    Conservative in California
    +2
    it's been disproven and discredited numerous times in the last century, and yet Leftists keep thinking that not enough money was spent to make it work. Little do they know that there isn't enough money in the world to ever make it work.
  • OPOA912 2010/11/04 16:14:21
    Now seems a good time as any
    OPOA912
    +5
    Anyone that thinks OZbama's policies, hate towards American values and arrogance didn't cause the landslide victory on Tuesday night is stuck in stupidville.
  • Rore73 2010/11/04 15:45:08
    Now seems a good time as any
    Rore73
    +5
    When a person learns the definition of stupid, they are usually in favor of different methods in trying to accomplish things, provided they aren't stupid.
  • Rick4Ron - Paul☮2012 2010/11/04 15:08:29
    Something else
    Rick4Ron - Paul☮2012
    +4
    If you truly want to change the economy, and believe in all those (Now) popular buzz-words like, liberty, republic, personal responsibility, a commodity backed currency, an end to centralized banking, over regulation, smaller federal government, and stronger state government and the competition and innovation that would bring, and lowering... even eliminating the (Temporary) personal income tax... and on and on?

    While you debate economic theory...

    Someone, qualified and proven, was WAY ahead of you, and ran for president.

    It has been an interesting process, watching so many echo the words and wisdom, of someone who has been warning us for 30 years!

    When the student is ready, the teacher will appear...

    process watching echo wisdom warning 30 years student ready teacher


    Did you learn anything, this time around? Are you ready for a true statesman, who has defended the constitution and our dying republic... all along?

    He has been right all along! Perhaps, it's time to vote for genuine, proven substance?

    true statesman defended constitution dying republic vote genuine proven substance
  • danjac1263 Rick4Ro... 2010/11/04 19:02:20
    danjac1263
    +2
    i like rand more than his old man
  • Rick4Ro... danjac1263 2010/11/05 00:57:03
    Rick4Ron - Paul☮2012
    +1
    I'm hopeful, for Rand. I want him to live up to his words, as you probably do? However, they are only words and promises... Hope and change! (Sound familiar?) You do know, that is how another unproven, inexperienced man became president? Words!

    If Rand has, only 10% of his fathers integrity and wisdom, he will be better than most.

    I was sincerely hoping that we, as a nation, learned something, this time around? Sadly, if you would prefer the son to the father? And if that is how Americans are going to vote, in 2012? Then we have more pain ahead. There is no one on the potential republican ticket, who will stand-up to an incumbent president, or the more likely Clinton 2.0. Remember, how Clinton 1.0, had dismal polling, like Obama. So, he reinvented himself as the new moderate president, to win a reelection. BHO, will be getting the same advice, from the DNC, so don't think it's not possible? A lot can happen in the next two years, including an attack on Iran, which could unify the nation, depending on the circumstances? If you think Palin, Huckabee, or the stable of Neocons, in waiting, have a chance... then you need to review your history!

    The first Tea Party, was created as a fundraising and support entity, for Ron Paul. The Neocons and RINO's have been steering the Tea Party,...





















    I'm hopeful, for Rand. I want him to live up to his words, as you probably do? However, they are only words and promises... Hope and change! (Sound familiar?) You do know, that is how another unproven, inexperienced man became president? Words!

    If Rand has, only 10% of his fathers integrity and wisdom, he will be better than most.

    I was sincerely hoping that we, as a nation, learned something, this time around? Sadly, if you would prefer the son to the father? And if that is how Americans are going to vote, in 2012? Then we have more pain ahead. There is no one on the potential republican ticket, who will stand-up to an incumbent president, or the more likely Clinton 2.0. Remember, how Clinton 1.0, had dismal polling, like Obama. So, he reinvented himself as the new moderate president, to win a reelection. BHO, will be getting the same advice, from the DNC, so don't think it's not possible? A lot can happen in the next two years, including an attack on Iran, which could unify the nation, depending on the circumstances? If you think Palin, Huckabee, or the stable of Neocons, in waiting, have a chance... then you need to review your history!

    The first Tea Party, was created as a fundraising and support entity, for Ron Paul. The Neocons and RINO's have been steering the Tea Party, to the standard RNC/GOP agenda. The next two years leading up to through the campaign, should be some of the wildest politics in our young history. I'll be working, once more, with checkbook and action, for the only man who seems to get it... and has proven so! There is no one more qualified to be president! Of course, qualifications don't seem to matter, anymore?

    Only Ron Paul has consistently stood up against corporatism and cronyism, in the defense of the constitution. He is called Dr. NO, by his peers. I'm sure Rand will prove himself, over time? Ron Paul, already has!

    I would welcome discussing any issues, which you might have with Dr. Paul, Sr.?

    peers rand prove ron paul discussing issues dr paul sr

    Listen to Dr. Paul, in the 2008 SC Republican Debate... Is this not what we need today! Or do you want Neocons like Giuliani and Romney, calling the shots! Priceless footage of Hannity, who is a complete war-monger, and who never has gotten it? Ron Paul, has Brass balls, to take on all the Neocons, with the truth!



    Heres a current version, as the campaign continues, and the supporters grow. You can't stop the truth forever?





    This is the day after the midterm elections. Who do you support, who can speak with this authority, about economics? Please... bring it!



    I'm sure, like many, you will ignore these videos? However, you do so, at your own peril!
    (more)
  • Rick4Ro... Rick4Ro... 2010/11/05 01:07:59
    Rick4Ron - Paul☮2012
    +1
    Here's the British version of Ron Paul. If Dr. Paul sounded like him... he would be president, and our economy would be improving.

    Note: He came out in support for Ron Paul, during the election. No one else knew what they were doing. He was right!

  • danjac1263 Rick4Ro... 2010/11/05 03:34:54
    danjac1263
    ive said many times i think ron paul is dead on with domestic issues.my problem with the old man is that he is naive on foreign policy. i think rand in time will be alot smoother than his old man, and maybe not quite as stubborn of a jew hater.
  • Rick4Ro... danjac1263 2010/11/05 04:40:30
    Rick4Ron - Paul☮2012
    +1
    Ohhh! You bought in to the "Jew hater" Neocon campaign slander? Because he points out how the Israeli lobbyist, are the most powerful congress controlling bunch, of them all? He also adds, that Israel has enough nukes to defend their own country, and would be a lot better off, making their own decisions as a sovereign nation, without DC's string pulling. Jew hating? Nice try! Economics, pure and simple!

    I invite you to back up your claim, or do the liberal dance, of no argument!

    And you want "Smooth" (Like Obama was?) So, you vote for looks and oration, over substance? (Isn't that how we stay in these messes?) We simply cannot afford the nation building, which you must approve of... not, anymore!

    Policing the world! Great foreign policy concept! 65,000 American combatants died, for that same corporate driven policy. Back then it was the Red Menace... Communism. Of course, most of the communist regimes, have gone out of business, due to lack of funds! And now we have to borrow money from China, just to pay the debt service on the Trillions owed... 1 Trillion, just on the two so called wars. What a brilliant economic move? Now, China has us by the short hairs, over Taiwan and North Korea. We are getting our asses kicked, across the board, and in ways you fail to understand?

    Ron Paul does!

  • danjac1263 Rick4Ro... 2010/11/05 23:41:21
    danjac1263
    i wouldnt mind ron paul trashing the jews now and then,but to combine that with his coziness to the arab world is a bit much for me. id vote for ron paul over obamao, and hell probably over mccain,but not over a real republican. imuch prefer alan keyes over ron paul,and i think rand is morelevel headed than his old man,minus a few years experience. ron paul is never going to win anything. his followers are loyal as hell and some of them are just nut jobs.ron should sit back and maybe advise his son rand on things domestic and let rand handle the foreign policy.
  • Rick4Ro... danjac1263 2010/11/06 05:43:36
    Rick4Ron - Paul☮2012
    +1
    I understand where you are coming from, (I've heard these unproven charges before.) However, you are making a lot of accusations, without any support or reference. Where do you get these Jew/Arab notions? MSNBC? That tends to weaken your argument, and consequently, you are hard to take seriously? I'm trying to have a positive discussion with you, however, you need to substantiate, some part of your position? Please, enlighten me?

    I'm not sure what a real republican is anymore? However, I believe we have outgrown that particular agenda. The GOP/RNC has damaged us, as much as the liberals.

    With Ron Paul, I don't have to wonder where he stands, or what he has fought for, against all odds. The acorn, doesn't fall far from the tree? And, young Rand, is putting his foot in his mouth, as most neophytes do! Ron Paul, has already won numerous polls, as the one person who could actually defeat Obama, in the next election. While I do not place a lot of credence in polls... I continue to support Dr. Paul, and will so, in the next election.

    We don't need a newly minted, Kentucky legislator... we need a President?

    Sincerely, who do you suggest in 2012?
  • danjac1263 Rick4Ro... 2010/11/07 01:31:34
    danjac1263
    +1
    ron paul willnever be president ,but perhaps someday his son may be.ron paul has said many times he doesnt expect rand to be a clone of his,and he has high hopes for rands future. i think time will tell,but i like rand alot thus far.if some miracle happens and ron paul is nominated ill vote for him over the kenyan marxist. i would consider it slightly less pathetic than when i voted for mccain. this is my way of compromising. id give ron paul a B on domestic policy and a D on foreign policy,that grades out superior to obamas double F'S
  • Rick4Ro... danjac1263 2010/11/07 03:33:05
    Rick4Ron - Paul☮2012
    +1
    I doubt those who fear what he stands for will allow his presidency. All the more reason to stand behind him, in my book? Whoever "They" are afraid of, should have our attention. I, too, hope Rand grows in to a statesman, like his father. He will be his own man, I'm sure... in time!

    It remains to be seen, if Obama, or Hilliary, will represent the DNC ticket?

    I appreciate your points.
  • danjac1263 Rick4Ro... 2010/11/07 19:19:20
    danjac1263
    +1
    hitlery would love to see a disaster that would give her an opening with obama. the election beatdown in and of itself is a start but not enough. obama willtry to crush any democrat opposition and use his media stooges to help. keep an eye on evan bayhe.
  • Rick4Ro... danjac1263 2010/11/08 00:26:42 (edited)
    Rick4Ron - Paul☮2012
    I will do so! In the mean time...

  • Conserv... danjac1263 2010/11/05 02:14:35
    Conservative in California
    +1
    me too...Rand Paul isn't an isolationist.
  • Rick4Ro... Conserv... 2010/11/05 04:40:51
    Rick4Ron - Paul☮2012
    +1
    Neither is Ron Paul. That is the weak Neocon argument, which they successfully used to mislead their big government, scared of the world, followers. What are you afraid of? We have enough might to destroy the world, many time over, but we cannot defend our own borders from invasion. If we keep stretching our resources fighting an enemy with no clear boundaries or target-able command and control... we will lose by default! Bad enough to have the Russians laughing at us, for being in Afghanistan for 9 years, when they had the good sense to get out, as their own empire crumbled, due to lack of funds.

    You must support our foreign policy of unconstitutional, undeclared wars? The clear unconstitutionality of using Executive orders, or allowing the United Nation dictates, to place American service personnel in to harms way? How's that working for us?

    Our efforts at nation building have failed, and we can no longer afford the foolishness of defending the Korean border for 50+ years, when the ROK Marines, are some of the toughest fighting men, of any country! Don't we buy enough cell phones, cars, flat-screens, and appliances, etc. For them to take care of themselves? We have to pay for 700+ bases in over 125 countries, and for what? All empires fall, for the same reason... they go broke...





    Neither is Ron Paul. That is the weak Neocon argument, which they successfully used to mislead their big government, scared of the world, followers. What are you afraid of? We have enough might to destroy the world, many time over, but we cannot defend our own borders from invasion. If we keep stretching our resources fighting an enemy with no clear boundaries or target-able command and control... we will lose by default! Bad enough to have the Russians laughing at us, for being in Afghanistan for 9 years, when they had the good sense to get out, as their own empire crumbled, due to lack of funds.

    You must support our foreign policy of unconstitutional, undeclared wars? The clear unconstitutionality of using Executive orders, or allowing the United Nation dictates, to place American service personnel in to harms way? How's that working for us?

    Our efforts at nation building have failed, and we can no longer afford the foolishness of defending the Korean border for 50+ years, when the ROK Marines, are some of the toughest fighting men, of any country! Don't we buy enough cell phones, cars, flat-screens, and appliances, etc. For them to take care of themselves? We have to pay for 700+ bases in over 125 countries, and for what? All empires fall, for the same reason... they go broke! We are broke, borrowing money, and printing the rest!

    Please, make your point... back it up with facts! You are sounding like the liberals, I keep dealing with.

    broke broke borrowing money printing rest facts sounding liberals dealing

    broke broke borrowing money printing rest facts sounding liberals dealing
    (more)
  • danjac1263 Rick4Ro... 2010/11/08 02:46:12
  • Rick4Ro... danjac1263 2010/11/08 05:20:19
    Rick4Ron - Paul☮2012
    Do you think, the "New Conservative," is the correct direction of the Republican Party? The word "conservative" was not at all in use before the publication of Russell Kirk’s Conservative Mind in 1953. Since, Eisenhower's support of the "New Deal" it has been in collapse.

    You can learn about the death of the "Old Right," and the birth of New Conservatism (Neocons) that replaced them, after the quote.

    BS, to you, perhaps? Not, to those who truly examine the issues!

    Ron Paul, is the last "Old Right" left.

    "The three major themes of what is today called the Old Right, but what really ought to be called the Original Right: a movement dedicated to limited government at home and minimal overseas entanglements — a worldview that defined the conservative movement."

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/ro...

    The republican party has lost its way!

    If I had judged candidates, based on some of their supporters... I wouldn't vote at all! "Creepy types" to me, are the ones who buy the elections through coercion and deception. Perhaps, you are not doing your due-diligence? The fringe element, will always make-up, a part of every candidates base. What would you consider a "Creepy type?"

    Vote for who you believe will best represent your ideals and goals for the country, not just the Anti-Obama.

    For me, it is clear... Congressman Ron Paul.
  • danjac1263 Rick4Ro... 2010/11/08 17:20:07
    danjac1263
    most candidates dont go back and compare themseves with ike before they decide what kind ofrepublican they want to be. ron paul supporters love to throw out the neocon label, and all that does is make liberals happy,and piss alot of gopers off. if ron paul spent as much time on the liberals as he does making comparisons between himself and opther republicans he might have fare better. ron paul wants the the cover of being in a major party ,but spends more time arguing with them then he does the damn commucrats. i have to admit that in ron pauls previous occupation i was a big fan of his. he was really awesome on lost in space playing the part of dr.smith. his foreign policy would be just like dr smiths, that of a whiney, sniveling, scared little bitch.
  • Rick4Ro... danjac1263 2010/11/09 03:04:19
    Rick4Ron - Paul☮2012
    Funny analogy! Clearly, you do not understand what is at stake, and what Dr. Paul's real strengths are? There is a reason he is feared and discounted? There is, also, much to be absorbed, if you will take off your blinders. Actually, he reminds the GOP of it's roots to Taft! (Ike, sold the party out to FDR's New Deal!) Of course, history, is just old stuff, and has no merit, when there are pitchforks to grab, and monsters to slay? OK, Will Robinson... grow up, well! You have no idea what our real threats are... but you will!

    Those who forget the past, are condemned to repeat it!

    "Fascism will come at the hands of perfectly authentic Americans who have been working to commit this country to the rule of the bureaucratic state; interfering in the affairs of the states and cities; taking part in the management of industry and finance and agriculture; assuming the role of great national banker and investor, borrowing billions every year and spending them on all sorts of projects through which such a government can paralyze opposition and command public support; marshaling great armies and navies at crushing costs to support the industry of war and preparation for war which will become our nation’s greatest industry; and adding to all this the most romantic adventures in global planni...



    Funny analogy! Clearly, you do not understand what is at stake, and what Dr. Paul's real strengths are? There is a reason he is feared and discounted? There is, also, much to be absorbed, if you will take off your blinders. Actually, he reminds the GOP of it's roots to Taft! (Ike, sold the party out to FDR's New Deal!) Of course, history, is just old stuff, and has no merit, when there are pitchforks to grab, and monsters to slay? OK, Will Robinson... grow up, well! You have no idea what our real threats are... but you will!

    Those who forget the past, are condemned to repeat it!

    "Fascism will come at the hands of perfectly authentic Americans who have been working to commit this country to the rule of the bureaucratic state; interfering in the affairs of the states and cities; taking part in the management of industry and finance and agriculture; assuming the role of great national banker and investor, borrowing billions every year and spending them on all sorts of projects through which such a government can paralyze opposition and command public support; marshaling great armies and navies at crushing costs to support the industry of war and preparation for war which will become our nation’s greatest industry; and adding to all this the most romantic adventures in global planning, regeneration, and domination, all to be done under the authority of a powerfully centralized government in which the executive will hold in effect all the powers, with Congress reduced to the role of a debating society."

    — John T. Flynn, As We Go Marching [1944]

    Wake up Dan? It's happening again! And only one messenger remains.
    (more)
  • danjac1263 Rick4Ro... 2010/11/09 03:25:53
    danjac1263
    if ron paul is so feared then explain why he lost to undecided.
  • danjac1263 Conserv... 2010/11/05 23:42:11
    danjac1263
    my sentiments exactly

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