Is it the Federal Government's duty to promote the General Welfare and Secure the Blessings of Liberty for Ourselves and our Posterity?
Lee
2012/06/23 15:24:31
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It tells us what the founders, "We the People" expected of our government.
Now get the hell out of our way andlet us.
Is that the way the Constitution reads in La La Land?
Well, here in the real world the Constitution does not look anything like that nonsense.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
What's your point?
They were ratified to "further" restrain the FG from intruding on the lives of the people. "We the People" does not mean "We the Federal Government".Although, Individually, each member certainly has the right, by nature, to enjoy them.
This nation is a Democratic Republic, also known as a Representative Democracy.
So yes,ideally the people run the show THROUGH the government.
"The government is us; we are the government, you and I."
- Theodore Roosevelt
Nowhere in our Founding Documents will you find the word Democracy.
We are a Democratic Republic, also know as a Representational Democracy.
http://www.stopthenorthameric...
Therefore, the actions taken by the Government to not rise to the level of "promoting the General Welfare"
Plus Congress has greatly exceeded its scope of authority as spelled out in the Constitution.
Income is an indication of wealth.
Why isn't the income level of citizens pertinent to the General Welfare?
General Welfare is the welfare of the nation. You can not equalize everyone and ensure the nations welfare, that comes from advancement.
Specific examples? The Department of Education is not a federal responsibility. Charity is not the province of the feds, presented in the form of Social Security, welfare, food stamps, WIC, housing subsidies, energy assistance, etc.
But if you don't have an income, you'll have a hard time building wealth.
And if your income barely allows you to feed and clothe your family and put a roof over their heads, you're not going to be saving anything.
And yes absolutely the government can create self-sustaining jobs in the private sector. Our Federal government as been doing that for at least a century and a half.
In the 1860's, the Federal government funded the building of the transcontinental Railroad, paying $16,000 (a fortune back then) for every mile of track laid over flat ground. As further incentive, the government gave the Railroad companies land equal in size to the states of California and Montana combined. The successful completion of the the transcontinental railroad and hundreds of spur lines greased the wheels of commerce for generations. And that created jobs for generations of Americans.
FDR did the same by building dams and hydroelectric plants. Eisenhower did the same by building the interstate highway system. Every now and then, the Federal Government must take the initiative by providing for the General Welfare and build necessary infrastructure. The government can promote the General Welfare and create self-sustaining j...
But if you don't have an income, you'll have a hard time building wealth.
And if your income barely allows you to feed and clothe your family and put a roof over their heads, you're not going to be saving anything.
And yes absolutely the government can create self-sustaining jobs in the private sector. Our Federal government as been doing that for at least a century and a half.
In the 1860's, the Federal government funded the building of the transcontinental Railroad, paying $16,000 (a fortune back then) for every mile of track laid over flat ground. As further incentive, the government gave the Railroad companies land equal in size to the states of California and Montana combined. The successful completion of the the transcontinental railroad and hundreds of spur lines greased the wheels of commerce for generations. And that created jobs for generations of Americans.
FDR did the same by building dams and hydroelectric plants. Eisenhower did the same by building the interstate highway system. Every now and then, the Federal Government must take the initiative by providing for the General Welfare and build necessary infrastructure. The government can promote the General Welfare and create self-sustaining jobs in the private sector.
I'm not suggesting that everyone should be "equalized." I am suggesting that the opportunity for success should be equalized as much as possible. There's a lot of talent that can go to waste otherwise.
When, Theodore Roosevelt busted up the big Capitalists who had created an oligarchy of monopolies and oligopolies, he opened the way for smaller innovators to get a foot in the door and compete. This resulted in useful innovations, better products for consumers, and cheaper prices. TR and his trust busters created a healthier, more competitive type of Capitalism that employed millions. Yes, government can help create jobs in the private sector.
The citizens of the United States are this country's greatest resource. It is they who make this nation great. It is in the best interest of the nation to see that our citizens are educated, healthy, and can live their lives free from a toxic environment.
..No they have not! Show me some of these jobs the Feds "created".
The Federal Government did NOT fund the transcontinental railroad, though they did assist. "(A) railroad line built in the United States of America between 1863 and 1869 by the Central Pacific Railroad of California and the Union Pacific Railroad. Each railroad received $16,000 per mile ($9,940/km) built over an easy grade, $32,000 per mile ($19,880/km) in the high plains, and $48,000 per mile ($29,830/km) in the mountains. This payment was in the form of government bonds that the companies could resell. The bonds and land grants have been frequently characterised as a government subsidy. However, historian Stephen Ambrose has argued against this since the companies repaid both the capital and interest.[11] He also argues that although the companies were able to sell the land grants in the Sacramento Valley and Nebraska at "a good price", most of the land in Wyoming, Utah and Nevada was "virtually worthless".[12] In any case the Government did not create any jobs, the Union Pacific & Central Pacific created the first jobs from the construction of...
..No they have not! Show me some of these jobs the Feds "created".
The Federal Government did NOT fund the transcontinental railroad, though they did assist. "(A) railroad line built in the United States of America between 1863 and 1869 by the Central Pacific Railroad of California and the Union Pacific Railroad. Each railroad received $16,000 per mile ($9,940/km) built over an easy grade, $32,000 per mile ($19,880/km) in the high plains, and $48,000 per mile ($29,830/km) in the mountains. This payment was in the form of government bonds that the companies could resell. The bonds and land grants have been frequently characterised as a government subsidy. However, historian Stephen Ambrose has argued against this since the companies repaid both the capital and interest.[11] He also argues that although the companies were able to sell the land grants in the Sacramento Valley and Nebraska at "a good price", most of the land in Wyoming, Utah and Nevada was "virtually worthless".[12] In any case the Government did not create any jobs, the Union Pacific & Central Pacific created the first jobs from the construction of the railroad.
11 Ambrose, Stephen, 2000, p. 377
12 Ambrose, Stephen, 2000, p. 376
"FDR did the same by building dams and hydroelectric plants. Eisenhower did the same by building the interstate highway system."
..Neither of these created any jobs, per se, FDR was nothing more than stimulus spending, we all know how well that works. The interstate was temporary jobs.
"I'm not suggesting that everyone should be "equalized." I am suggesting that the opportunity for success should be equalized as much as possible. "
..Equal opportunity can not exist with Government intervention. Some of the least Government intervention occurs in Hong Kong and there you can open a business in one day filling out a single page form.
"useful innovations, better products for consumers, and cheaper prices"
..None of these occur from Government intervention. In fact Government intervention has a damping effect on all of these criteria, stifling innovation holding back innovation, and increasing prices.
Cities like Denver and Salt Lake City would have been cut off from the rest of the country without the railroads. All of that government sponsored infrastructure spending created millions of jobs.
Do you think Wal-mart could distribute and sell goods across the country without interstate trucking on the interstate highway system created by the Federal Government?
Use your head for something other than a hammer.
Yes, the US government did in fact FUND the transcontinental railroad. You must have gotten your misinformation from a Right Wing Nut Job website. Let's see a link to your source.
No bank was big enough to take on such a massive project.
You can distort the facts as much as you want, but the facts are still facts.
You're not going to prove anything by posting lies.
You Right Wingers can lie to yourselves, and you can lie to each other, but when you lie to reasonable people, you should expect us to call Bullsh*t.
so . . . BULLSH*T.
By the way . . .Why do Right Wingers lie so much?
..Actually you didn't!
"would have been cut off from the rest of the country without the railroads. All of that government sponsored infrastructure spending created millions of jobs."
..Gee then how did these cities come to be before the railroad. I can see that you made no effort to read the material I presented.
"infrastructure spending created millions of jobs."
..Such jobs are all TEMPORARY!
"the interstate highway system created by the Federal Government? "
..Was a project for the purpose of creating a system to facilitate movement of our military forces during a full mobilization.
"Use your head for something other than a hammer."
..I do, lots of things.
Yes the facts are the facts. The fact is that the majority of the funding came from the sale of lands by the railroad to private individuals. Making the funding of the railroad a function of private funds.
^ a b Executive Order of Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States, Fixing the Point of Commencement of the Pacific Railroad at Council Bluffs, Iowa. dated March 7, 1864. (38th Congress, 1st Session SENATE Ex. Doc. No. 27)
^ Cooper, Bruce C., "Riding the Transcontinental Rails: Overland Travel on the Pacific Railroad 1865–1881" (2005), Polyglot Press, Philadelphia ISBN 1-4115-9993-4. p. 11
^ Cooper, Bruce Clement(Ed), The Classic Western American Railroad Routes. New York: Chartwell Books(US) / Bassingbourn: Worth Press (UK); 2010. ISBN 978-0-7858-2573-9; ISBN 0-7858-2573-8; BINC: 3099794. pp 44–45
^ "Union Pacific Map". Central Pacific Railroad Museum. Retrieved 2009-02-05.
^ "Central Pacific Railroad Map". Central Pacific Railroad Museum. Retrieved 2009-02-05.
^ F.V. Hayden and Daniel M. Davis. "Sun Pictures of Rocky Mountain Scenery, Photographic Collection". Utah State University Special Collections and Archives. Retrieved 2007-01-06.
^ PBS American Experience - Transcontinental Railroad - Whitney Biography
^ In Memoriam, Theodore D. Judah, Died November 2, 1863
^ Map of Land Grants to Railroads [1] accessed Jan 29, 2009
^ The Silent Spikes: Chinese Laborers and the Construction of North American Railroads, comp. and ed. Huang Annian, trans. Zhang Juguo (n.p....
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^ a b Executive Order of Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States, Fixing the Point of Commencement of the Pacific Railroad at Council Bluffs, Iowa. dated March 7, 1864. (38th Congress, 1st Session SENATE Ex. Doc. No. 27)
^ Cooper, Bruce C., "Riding the Transcontinental Rails: Overland Travel on the Pacific Railroad 1865–1881" (2005), Polyglot Press, Philadelphia ISBN 1-4115-9993-4. p. 11
^ Cooper, Bruce Clement(Ed), The Classic Western American Railroad Routes. New York: Chartwell Books(US) / Bassingbourn: Worth Press (UK); 2010. ISBN 978-0-7858-2573-9; ISBN 0-7858-2573-8; BINC: 3099794. pp 44–45
^ "Union Pacific Map". Central Pacific Railroad Museum. Retrieved 2009-02-05.
^ "Central Pacific Railroad Map". Central Pacific Railroad Museum. Retrieved 2009-02-05.
^ F.V. Hayden and Daniel M. Davis. "Sun Pictures of Rocky Mountain Scenery, Photographic Collection". Utah State University Special Collections and Archives. Retrieved 2007-01-06.
^ PBS American Experience - Transcontinental Railroad - Whitney Biography
^ In Memoriam, Theodore D. Judah, Died November 2, 1863
^ Map of Land Grants to Railroads [1] accessed Jan 29, 2009
^ The Silent Spikes: Chinese Laborers and the Construction of North American Railroads, comp. and ed. Huang Annian, trans. Zhang Juguo (n.p.: China Intercontinental Press, 2006), p. 36.
^ Ambrose, Stephen, 2000, p. 377
^ Ambrose, Stephen, 2000, p. 376
^ Abrahamlincolnclassroom.org - Abraham Lincoln and Iowa
^ PBS American Experience - Transcontinental Railroad - Transcript
^ PBS American Experience - Transcontinental Railroad - Durant Biography
^ a b Perkins, J. R. (2003). "CENTRAL PACIFIC–UNION PACIFIC RACE". Encyclopedia.com. Retrieved 2010-04-24.
^ Collins, R.M. (2010). Irish Gandy Dancer: A tale of building the Transcontinental Railroad. Seattle: Create Space. pp. 198. ISBN 978-1-4528-2631-8.
^ a b Alta California (San Francisco), November 9, 1868.
^ Kraus, High Road to Promontory, p. 110.; Robert West Howard, The Great Iron Trail: The Story of the First Transcontinental Railroad (New York: G. P. Putnam's Sons, 1962), p. 231.
^ Kraus, George (1969). "Chinese Laborers and the Construction of the Central Pacific". Utah Historical Quarterly 37 (1): 41–57.
^ Ambrose, Nothing Like It in the World, p. 201 and p. 160
^ a b Tzu-Kuei, "Chinese Workers and the First Transcontinental Railroad of the United States of America", p. 128.
^ a b Kraus, "Chinese Laborers and the Construction of the Central Pacific," p. 49.
^ John R. Gillis, "TUNNELS OF THE PACIFIC RAILROAD." Van Nostrand's Eclectic Engineering Magazine, January 5, 1870, p. 418-423,
^ CPRR Discussion Group
^ "People & Events: Thomas Clark Durant (1820–1885)". American Experience: Transcontinental Railroad. PBS. 2003. Retrieved 2007-05-10.
^ "See the "Lost" Golden Spike at the Museum" California State Railroad Museum
^ Central Pacific snow sheds [2] accessed January 28, 2009
^ United States National Park Service (2002-09-28). "Promontory After May 10, 1869". Retrieved 2007-05-10.
^ People & Events: Oakes Ames (1804–1873) - American Experience Transcontinental Railroad
^ Panic on Wall Street: A History of America's Financial Disasters, p.193, Robert Sobel, Beard Books, 1999, ISBN 978-1-893122-46-8
^ "Eureka County, Yucca Mountain Existing Transportation Corridor Study". Eureka County – Yucca Mountain Project. 2005. Retrieved 2010-05-08.
^ William Butcher (translation and introduction). Around the World in Eighty Days, Oxford Worlds Classics, 1995, Introduction.
Can you give me a link that points to your source to support your completely unsupportable claim that the US Federal Government did not fund the Transcontinental Railroad?
And you cannot provide a link, then why not?
It's absolutely idiotic on your part to DENY that the Federal Government funded the Transcontinental Railroad.
Although the RailRoads did sell much of the land given to them by the government, that doesn't mean the Transcontinental Railroad was not funded by the Federal Government.
What an incredible distortion of the truth!
Why do Right Wingers lie so much?
Does anyone know?
They could not have been built without government funding.
But bonds are sold by the federal government to raise money even now to individuals, investment houses, countries, and any other entities who want to purchase them. And that money is debt.
That's how this nation gets the money to pay its expenses. When we don't generate enough revenue by taxing to pay expenses . . we sell bonds and other securities.
The trillions of dollars in US debt are tied up in the form of bonds and other securities and in the interest we must pay to the bearers of those bonds.
Traditionally, when the nation needs a whole lot of money quickly, it actively sells bonds.
The nation sold war bonds in WWII for instance.
The US Government owned the 30 year bonds in question and sold them to investors.
Of course any corporation can sell bonds.
But the bonds used to finance the building of the Transcontinental railroad were 30 year government bonds.
And the Government gave a whole lot land to the Railroads as an incentive to build.
Whether the Railroad companies sold some of that land is immaterial to the fact that the US government funded the building of the transcontinental railroad . . . because building that railroad helped " insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity."
That was back when Right Wing Nut jobs did not keep this nation from succeeding.
"But the bonds used to finance the building of the Transcontinental railroad were 30 year government bonds." ..Show me some evidence.
"And the Government gave a whole lot land to the Railroads as an incentive to build."
..There was no need to give over the amount of land they did. It was way more than needed to build the right of way.
"insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity."
..Not quite! Only one of those applies and that would be "the general Welfare" as the railroad brought the disparate parts of the country closer together.
In any case the Government had no input into the construction of the railroad.
Take some time.
Give it some thought.
And yes, the government hired private sector experts, the Rail Road companies, to do the actually engineering, the design, and the work.
But the government was very smart about it.
They had one rail road company start in the east and one start in the west, and they pushed toward the center of the nation to link up with each other.
And they both worked as hard and efficiently as they could because every mile of track laid was worth a LOT of money. And if one company was slow than the other company would get to lay more track and make more money. So they worked like hell to get this thing completed.
So what we had was a combination of the private sector and the public sector working together toward a common goal that benefited ALL Americans . . . except the Indian tribes, and I feel bad about that.
Otherwise though, it was an extremely successful endeavor.
And there is no good reason we can't continue to do that.
In fact, we are doing that. Private and Public partnerships are pretty common, especially in the early stages of industrial development.
Shale gas research, for example was started in the 1970's by the Federal government. And we poured a lot of money into it, but now it's paying off. Now private ind...
Take some time.
Give it some thought.
And yes, the government hired private sector experts, the Rail Road companies, to do the actually engineering, the design, and the work.
But the government was very smart about it.
They had one rail road company start in the east and one start in the west, and they pushed toward the center of the nation to link up with each other.
And they both worked as hard and efficiently as they could because every mile of track laid was worth a LOT of money. And if one company was slow than the other company would get to lay more track and make more money. So they worked like hell to get this thing completed.
So what we had was a combination of the private sector and the public sector working together toward a common goal that benefited ALL Americans . . . except the Indian tribes, and I feel bad about that.
Otherwise though, it was an extremely successful endeavor.
And there is no good reason we can't continue to do that.
In fact, we are doing that. Private and Public partnerships are pretty common, especially in the early stages of industrial development.
Shale gas research, for example was started in the 1970's by the Federal government. And we poured a lot of money into it, but now it's paying off. Now private industry has taken over and shale gas production is commercially viable, and it's offsetting the need for so much petroleum
Government and free enterprise can and should work together for the benefit of this nation and its citizens.
..I did!
"And yes, the government hired private sector experts, the Rail Road companies, to do the actually engineering, the design, and the work."
..No! you have that Bass Ackwards. The engineering, design came first. The initial investors contacted the Government.
"Shale gas research, for example was started in the 1970's by the Federal government."
..Really!? Are you sure? Where is it written?
When the Government gets its fingers in business it messes up the business virtually ALL the time. The Government does nothing well!
You can't produce any reputable source for anything you say. Why? Because your claims are FALSE. Why do you lie so much?
It doesn't make any sense that the work on the project started BEFORE the work was funded.
And yes, shale gas research was started in the 1970's by the Federal Government.
"Work on industrial-scale shale gas production did not begin until the 1970s, when declining production potential from conventional gas deposits in the United States spurred the federal government to invest in R&D; and demonstration projects[14] that ultimately led to directional and horizontal drilling, microseismic imaging, and massive hydraulic fracturing. Up until the public and private R&D; and demonstration projects of the 1970s and 1980s, drilling in shale was not considered to be commercially viable.
Early federal government investments in shale gas began with the Eastern Gas Shales Project in 1976 and the annual FERC-approved research budget of the Gas Research Institute."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
At least you are not denying anymore that the Federal Government funded the Transcontinental Rail Road.
You are an awfully slow learner though.
Apparently all those years of being bombarded by Right Wing lies, and distortions, and lies, and falsehoods, and lies, and slander,...
You can't produce any reputable source for anything you say. Why? Because your claims are FALSE. Why do you lie so much?
It doesn't make any sense that the work on the project started BEFORE the work was funded.
And yes, shale gas research was started in the 1970's by the Federal Government.
"Work on industrial-scale shale gas production did not begin until the 1970s, when declining production potential from conventional gas deposits in the United States spurred the federal government to invest in R&D; and demonstration projects[14] that ultimately led to directional and horizontal drilling, microseismic imaging, and massive hydraulic fracturing. Up until the public and private R&D; and demonstration projects of the 1970s and 1980s, drilling in shale was not considered to be commercially viable.
Early federal government investments in shale gas began with the Eastern Gas Shales Project in 1976 and the annual FERC-approved research budget of the Gas Research Institute."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
At least you are not denying anymore that the Federal Government funded the Transcontinental Rail Road.
You are an awfully slow learner though.
Apparently all those years of being bombarded by Right Wing lies, and distortions, and lies, and falsehoods, and lies, and slander, and lies . . . Pretty much turned your mind into mush.
Sounds a lot like Marie Antoinette, "cake and eat it". Sorry but you can not cherry pick sources. Though you have not offered much in sources.
I am not so certain that the Government STARTED "in the 1970's" Your citation is a bit daunting, the footnotes don't work too well. But the language you use can be found in a footnote. But does not levy the lions share on the Feds.
"The DOE's [1976] Eastern Gas Shales Project [in the Appalachia basin] determined there was a hell of a lot of gas in shales. It was the biggest accumulation of data and knowledge to date." From there, Mitchell and his team experimented to find the best and most economical way to fracture the Barnett Shale. Variations of fracking techniques through the 1980s led George Mitchell to bring the Department of Energy and the Gas Research Institute in in 1991. "By the early 1990s," said Steward, "we had a good position, acceptable but lacking knowledge base, and then Mitchell said, 'Okay, I'm open to bringing in DOE and GRI' in 1991."
This makes a claim that the Feds "found" the gas in shales, though it has been known since t...
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Sounds a lot like Marie Antoinette, "cake and eat it". Sorry but you can not cherry pick sources. Though you have not offered much in sources.
I am not so certain that the Government STARTED "in the 1970's" Your citation is a bit daunting, the footnotes don't work too well. But the language you use can be found in a footnote. But does not levy the lions share on the Feds.
"The DOE's [1976] Eastern Gas Shales Project [in the Appalachia basin] determined there was a hell of a lot of gas in shales. It was the biggest accumulation of data and knowledge to date." From there, Mitchell and his team experimented to find the best and most economical way to fracture the Barnett Shale. Variations of fracking techniques through the 1980s led George Mitchell to bring the Department of Energy and the Gas Research Institute in in 1991. "By the early 1990s," said Steward, "we had a good position, acceptable but lacking knowledge base, and then Mitchell said, 'Okay, I'm open to bringing in DOE and GRI' in 1991."
This makes a claim that the Feds "found" the gas in shales, though it has been known since the early 1800s, had the private concern Mitchell Energy doing the research, proving the concept, and then taking that to the Federal agencies. This does not make the Feds the initiators nor the driving force behind the process.
Same as the railroads. Even though the Feds invested in the UP & CP they were in the same position then as with shale NG.
Don't you know how to post a link, or are you ashamed of your source?
And what exactly is the conclusion you have reached from you investigations?
As far as reputable sources go, completely bogus Right Wing propaganda outlets abound on the Internet.
They're not that hard to identify.
Two of the most elaborate and well financed are the Heritage Foundation and the Cato Institute, two pretend "Think Tanks" that completely distort reality, but still I find them interesting.
And then there are all the Rupert Murdoch owned propaganda outlets . . . like FOX NEWS who continually ridicule the Main Stream Media.
It's funny, isn't it, how Right Wingers completely abandoned the tried and true news outlets like ABC, CBS, and NBC who have been around since the early to mid 1900's and who brought this nation's citizens reliable News coverage and smart editorial opinions for decades.
Yes Right Wing NUT JOBS have their own little world . . a bizarro world where reality is turned on its head.
Those of us living in the real world can give the Federal Government a LOT of credit for the Shale Gas production that is helping this nation inch its way toward Energy Self Sufficiency.
http://thebreakthrough.org/bl...
http://ivn.us/2012/05/27/the-...
Don't you know how to post a link, or are you ashamed of your source?
And what exactly is the conclusion you have reached from you investigations?
As far as reputable sources go, completely bogus Right Wing propaganda outlets abound on the Internet.
They're not that hard to identify.
Two of the most elaborate and well financed are the Heritage Foundation and the Cato Institute, two pretend "Think Tanks" that completely distort reality, but still I find them interesting.
And then there are all the Rupert Murdoch owned propaganda outlets . . . like FOX NEWS who continually ridicule the Main Stream Media.
It's funny, isn't it, how Right Wingers completely abandoned the tried and true news outlets like ABC, CBS, and NBC who have been around since the early to mid 1900's and who brought this nation's citizens reliable News coverage and smart editorial opinions for decades.
Yes Right Wing NUT JOBS have their own little world . . a bizarro world where reality is turned on its head.
Those of us living in the real world can give the Federal Government a LOT of credit for the Shale Gas production that is helping this nation inch its way toward Energy Self Sufficiency.
http://thebreakthrough.org/bl...
http://ivn.us/2012/05/27/the-...