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Is it okay for private citizens to shoot unarmed Mexicans trying to cross the US/Mexico border?

Radical 1s1am1st 2012/05/06 23:45:18
No, it is murder and lawlessness
Yes, kill everyone who I feel is not worthy
Undecided
None of the above
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Two Immigrants Killed in Ambush by Arizona Gunmen

















Two
people were killed on Sunday night when "an unknown number of subjects
in camouflage clothing armed with rifles" ambushed a truck carrying 20
to 30 undocumented immigrants near the southern Arizona town of Eloy,"
according to the Pima County sheriff's department.

Border
Patrol agents and police found one body in the bed of the pickup truck
and the other nearby in the desert. The identities of the victims have
not been released.

Five other border crossers were found hiding
in nearby brush and were turned over to Border Patrol after being
questioned. The rest managed to escape into the desert on foot.

When
asked if investigators suspect the attack was orchestrated by a
militia, sheriff's department spokesperson Deputy Dawn Barkman said
investigators are "looking into every possibility but nothing is
conclusive."

The truck carrying the immigrants was traveling
in a wash that is commonly used for "human smuggling," according to the
sheriff's department. A wash is a river in the desert that is often
without water.

This is not the first deadly attack by people
reportedly dressed in paramilitary-style gear in the area. In 2007, four
men armed with an assault weapon and wearing camouflage and berets
ambushed a vehicle 40 miles north of Eloy and killed a smuggling suspect
and wounded another person.

The attack comes as the Arizona
legislature is considering a bill that would create a volunteer,
state-sponsored and fully armed militia to aid the Border Patrol along
the United States-Mexico border. Militia members would be able to
pursue, arrest and detain individuals. The 300-person militia would cost
taxpayers $1.4 million annually and would be under the control of the
governor.

Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-Arizona) criticized the bill last month after an appropriations committee approved it.

"This
legislation is not just silly and irresponsible, it's a public safety
threat," Grijalva said. "To arm individuals, provide paper-thin weapons
training and deliberately place them in danger disrespects the taxpayers
of our great state and cheapens the professionalism of our border
security agents."

Crossing the border can be a dangerous task
beyond the threat of attack. Immigrants often die of dehydration or
malnutrition while crossing the harsh Sonoran Desert and attempting to
avoid arrest. The humanitarian aid group No More Deaths has documented 71 deaths of immigrants attempting the cross the Mexico-Arizona border area since October 2011.

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  • Rusty S... Elephan... 2012/05/07 01:17:34
    Rusty Shackleford
    Why don't you just ask the "undocumented workers" to enter our country at the legal checkpoints? That way they won't get mistaken for the violent drug runners.
  • Elephan... Rusty S... 2012/05/07 01:21:24
    Elephant Lord
    If it was that easy, the immigrants would be doing that. They wouldn't risk dying of thirst or getting murdered by crazy vigilantes if they could just walk through a checkpoint instead. And don't assume that they choose not to enter legally because they have something to hide. Many of the cartel members and drug dealers enter legally.
  • Rusty S... Elephan... 2012/05/07 01:33:42
    Rusty Shackleford
    You're right, they CHOOSE to enter an area where they know violent drug runners operate. If I brought my family down there, you would blame me for any harm that befell them.? Of course you would, as you should. Why then do you not blame the foreign invaders for their stupidity?

    We have American citizens that live there, the government is refusing to to protect them and instead protecting the foreign invaders. Why?
  • Elephan... Rusty S... 2012/05/07 01:35:33
    Elephant Lord
    Um... You do know that most illegal immigrants are unaffiliated with drug cartels, right?
  • Rusty S... Elephan... 2012/05/07 01:37:56
    Rusty Shackleford
    Yes, now how about answering my questions?
  • Elephan... Rusty S... 2012/05/07 01:43:18
    Elephant Lord
    Well, if you agree that most immigrants aren't cartel members, than you have to agree that punishing them for cartel violence is an injustice, right? Those vigilantes should be killing the cartel members, not unarmed immigrants. But they know that the cartels will easily outgun them, so they kill defenseless immigrants instead. It's the same as the terrorists that kill unarmed civilians because they're too cowardly to face the armed soldiers.
  • Rusty S... Elephan... 2012/05/07 01:48:48
    Rusty Shackleford
    I did not propose "punishing" anyone and I never mentioned Cartel members. I am saying that we have a right to defend our borders. We obviously disagree.
  • Elephan... Rusty S... 2012/05/07 01:50:22
    Elephant Lord
    Yes. But these vigilantes have got their "invaders" wrong. They should be shooting armed cartel members, not unarmed immigrants.
  • Rusty S... Elephan... 2012/05/07 01:55:18
    Rusty Shackleford
    How should we go about determining who is an armed Cartel member and who is an undocumented democrat?
  • Elephan... Rusty S... 2012/05/07 01:56:37
    Elephant Lord
    An armed cartel member would be, well, armed.
  • Rusty S... Elephan... 2012/05/07 02:04:52
    Rusty Shackleford
    You see me walking toward you across a field, am I armed?
  • Sayer S... Rusty S... 2012/05/07 00:55:59
    Sayer Stewart
    Please explain how shooting unarmed civilians equals defending this country.
  • Rusty S... Sayer S... 2012/05/07 01:05:05
    Rusty Shackleford
    Who said anything about shooting civilians, armed or unarmed?

    This poll is not about civilians.
  • Elephan... Rusty S... 2012/05/07 01:14:14
    Elephant Lord
    +1
    The immigrants that were murdered were civilians.
  • Rusty S... Elephan... 2012/05/07 01:20:07
    Rusty Shackleford
    Illegal aliens are not civilians.
  • Elephan... Rusty S... 2012/05/07 01:23:52
    Elephant Lord
    They weren't soldiers, they didn't belong to any violent organisation, and they were noncombatant. That makes them civilians.
  • Rusty S... Elephan... 2012/05/07 01:32:40
    Rusty Shackleford
    They are criminal foreign invaders, not civilians.
  • Sayer S... Rusty S... 2012/05/07 01:34:54
    Sayer Stewart
    So they deserve an automatic death penalty without any trial?
  • Rusty S... Sayer S... 2012/05/07 01:40:39
    Rusty Shackleford
    The same as if someone breaks into my house, yes.
  • Sayer S... Rusty S... 2012/05/07 01:46:48 (edited)
    Sayer Stewart
    If you shoot somebody that is breaking into your house, that is self defense and that is legal. However shooting a person just because illegally crossed the border is not self defense and is illegal.
  • Elephan... Rusty S... 2012/05/07 01:37:35
    Elephant Lord
    No, they're not "foreign invaders". They just want a better living, which America can offer. Even if you hate illegal immigrants, and I know YOU do, you have to be crazy to assume that they're all part of some conspiracy to make the US part of Mexico.
  • Rusty S... Elephan... 2012/05/07 01:44:44
    Rusty Shackleford
    No, they're not "foreign invaders".
    Wow, you're a moron, bye.
  • Elephan... Rusty S... 2012/05/07 02:04:57
    Elephant Lord
    Thanks. I was wondering if you'd ever leave. Bye.
  • JoeBtfsplk 2012/05/06 23:59:02
    Undecided
    JoeBtfsplk
    +2
    Undoubtedly, the news that illegals are being shot crossing the border at non-entry locations, will have an effect.
  • Stacie 2012/05/06 23:58:32
    No, it is murder and lawlessness
    Stacie
    +1
    No, that would be murder.

    Unless the person is a clear and present danger to others, the authorities should be alerted and allowed to handle the situation.
  • Rusty S... Stacie 2012/05/07 00:03:08
    Rusty Shackleford
    +1
    Authorities are refusing to handle the situation.
  • Radical... Rusty S... 2012/05/07 00:21:29
    Radical 1s1am1st
    So it is okay for private citizens to go out on a killing spree? What if these boys decide that killing Mexicans was so much fun that noisy neighborhood kids were now on the menu? Would you support them then? What about all non-white people? What about all non-christians? The more you kill, the easier it gets. Where do you draw the line with your tolerance for murder?
  • Rusty S... Radical... 2012/05/07 00:34:10
    Rusty Shackleford
    +1
    Do we, or do we not, have a right to defend our country against foreign invasion?

    Don't try to avoid the question by mixing in noisy children or different religious beliefs, this poll is about foreign invaders.
  • Stacie Rusty S... 2012/05/07 00:35:16
    Stacie
    +2
    You cannot kill an unarmed person. If you can safely detain the person and/or persons while Border Control officers are alerted, then do so.

    If that is not possible, observe where they are going and inform the authorities so that they may apprehend the person and/or persons.

    Again, if the person is armed and a threat to others, it is an entirely different situation.
  • Radical... Stacie 2012/05/07 00:53:43
    Radical 1s1am1st
    That is the lawful way of doing things. There seems to be a radicalization of certain people in this country in the last few years. I try to tell myself that it is because of 9-11 and these people are just fearful of terrorist attack. I just can not believe Americans have become such pussies that we have to shoot unarmed individuals to feel safe and good about themselves but I guess that is the reason, Americans are just a bunch of PUSSIES. There are plenty of openings in Afghanistan that will help these Americans get over these feelings of inadequacy and fearfulness.
  • Rusty S... Stacie 2012/05/07 00:58:14
    Rusty Shackleford
    OK, if they are naked and have their hands up in the air to show that they are truly unarmed, then I will agree with you.

    The fact is that violent drug dealers are invading our country and the government is failing to protect us, we have a right to protect ourselves.

    If unarmed people are getting killed, why don't you just ask them to enter our country at the legal checkpoints to avoid such incidents?
  • Stacie Rusty S... 2012/05/07 01:13:45
    Stacie
    My point is that you cannot shoot someone who is not an obvious threat on sight. You can attempt to detain them without violence, but you cannot simply shoot them in head.

    I am against the manner in which our country currently handles the border and illegal immigration problem that is so prevalent in our country as you are. If someone cannot manage to apply for United States citizenship legally, then they do not deserve the honor of having it to begin with.

    My belief does not, however, give me the right to shoot on sight anyone that I happen to see heading my direction from our country's borders.
  • EliteAmongOutcasts 2012/05/06 23:56:10
  • Radical... EliteAm... 2012/05/07 00:13:38
    Radical 1s1am1st
    I do not think of it as illegals. I think of it as a bunch of Arizona pussies lining up behind cover with semi-automatic weapons and just killing UNARMED people for fun. These dick heads will never be prosecuted for the crime of murder and will be slapping each other on the backs at their gun club and laughing about the whole incident. What happens when they decide that it is open season on some other people they consider non-humans or not worthy to live? It gets easier to kill people the more you do it and you are so not picky about who you kill or how you do it. I learned this while in Iraq but at least the prey had the opportunity to shoot back.
  • EliteAm... Radical... 2012/05/07 00:14:59
  • Radical... EliteAm... 2012/05/07 00:37:13
    Radical 1s1am1st
    War does that to you. Shooting people for the fun of it does it also. If they really want to kill people there are plenty of spots open in Afghanistan.
  • Radical 1s1am1st 2012/05/06 23:52:11
    No, it is murder and lawlessness
    Radical 1s1am1st
    +2
    Maybe the hunters need to become the hunted.
    hunters become the hunted
  • Rusty S... Radical... 2012/05/07 00:18:41
    Rusty Shackleford
    Go for it, my money is on the hunters.

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