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Is America the Good guy or the Bad Guy? Which is it?

crstrode 2010/01/20 04:40:24
Everybody hates America - Until they need something.

And how come all the rich Hollywood celebs give millions to foreigners while our own citizens are in need?

Maybe they can't afford movie tickets.


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheVastRightWingConspiracy/

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  • Damodi 2010/01/20 22:05:07
    Damodi
    +5
    America seems to be looked at as the bad guys of the world, especially when liberal media has a strangehold over it. They look at the world through rose-coloured glasses and expect everyone else to as well. Protecting your own countries people from terrorists is necessary and America should be congratulated for doing so well, although conventional warfare does nothing against a guerilla army, as you should have learned in Vietnam. But let's not get into this here. You could have capitulated after 9/11, but you didn't give up. Although I disagree with the war in Iraq and the reasons for going in there, it is now more than ever, necessary to stop the insurgency, and if they have presence in Iraq then much must be done to stop them. But because of this, the most vocal of the left, and therefore the media, spread hate to the rest of the world. Oh I forgot, except when they need help.

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  • emi.aramburu 2013/08/17 20:14:26
    emi.aramburu
    +3
    CORRUPTION PERCEPTIONS INDEX 2012
    http://www.transparency.org/c...
    Rank 19 United States (score 73)
    Rank 80 China (score 39)

    Americans are the Good Guys
    Chinese are the Bad Guys
  • crazy girl 2010/01/29 09:31:41
    crazy girl
    America is the bad guy
  • pipaltree 2010/01/21 21:49:26
    pipaltree
    +1
    America is the good guy. I think the notion that we're hated around the world is bogus. We Americans are too hard on ourselves. I've been abroad, they love us.
  • The Gov-Here to help BN362 2010/01/21 20:52:36
    The Gov-Here to help BN362
    We are the bad guys, But for reasons most are not even aware of. It has nothing to do with us 'the people'. We create the wars and fund the enemy. We play both ends against the middle. We are the capitalist conspiracy and the communist lie. We encompass both but conveniently our government has made sure we are sedated in our lives with drugs, entertainment, and strife. Most in this country will never figure it out.

    Too bad, if we don't figure it out real quick we are doomed as a society.
  • ME 2010/01/21 20:20:29
    ME
    Selfish, self-centered, greedy. I sent money; I will send more money. And I hope each of you haters who comment here someday find out what it's like to try to live through devastation like this. And tell this guy to SHUT UP!
  • spidermonkey™POTL~PWCM~JLA☮Paul
    Omg.....he is so right!!!
    I hate what happened....tragedy is terrible no matter where it happens, but he is so right!!!
    I couldn't agree more!!
  • MkB 2010/01/21 14:35:47 (edited)
    MkB
    We've been called the ugly American since the 1950s by countries who don't like us, yet always look to us for help. Hollywood needs to make domestic adoption chic and glamorous. Children in this country need a home too.
  • ruserious652 2010/01/21 06:07:38
    ruserious652
    +2
    I think you hit the nail on the head. We`re the bad guys to many countries of the world, until they want something from us.
  • Linkums 2010/01/21 05:28:40
    Linkums
    I see everyone as the bad guy. But America is less bad, so in that way... I guess you could say we're the good guys. That's just the way I see it though.
  • toasty 2010/01/21 03:18:06
    toasty
    Paranoid delusion. I dont know where you get this crap from- most people actually like Americans, even if they are a little loud and eat badly.
  • Larson Whipsnade 2010/01/21 00:44:41
    Larson Whipsnade
    +3
    America is like the mother of spoiled children- They hate her for everything they covet and never earned, but come to her begging for handouts whenever they need help paying their rent.
    And Hollywood liberals deny that poor Americans even exist. Helping your own country is too bourgois for them.
  • Damodi Larson ... 2010/01/21 01:18:08
    Damodi
    Too true, too true.
  • Freeranger 2010/01/21 00:27:26
    Freeranger
    We're reviled because we march to the beat of our own drummer and not in lock step with the rest of the world. And in those darkest moments before the dawn, when trouble stirs the heart of the evildoer, they hate us for having to swallow their collective pride and run beneath the protective umbrella we extend them. They will not spend for their own defense or haven't the guts to stand and fight....all at the cost of our most precious resource...our American military.

    ..........."And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
    Shall think themselves accurs’d they were not here,
    And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
    That fought with us upon Saint Crispin’s day."
  • brotherplease 2010/01/21 00:11:53
    brotherplease
    That's a little simplistic view of a complex country.
  • Velanarris 2010/01/20 23:42:42
    Velanarris
    America is neither the good guy nor the bad guy. America is a country, the people within fall into both categories.
  • MaxxaM 2010/01/20 22:29:59
    MaxxaM
    Both?
    It's killing people abroad, kinda like what happened in Vietnam, many killed children and women.
    And good because we donate to the needy

    :)
  • Kingsto... MaxxaM 2010/01/21 00:04:36
    Kingston Kate
    +1
    You know nothing of Vietnam. Just like any war, some innocents get hurt or killed. They weren't looking for them......but then again, these people thought nothing of strapping bombs to women and small children and sending them out in the streets near our soldiers. My husband is a Vietnam Vet and I don't appreciate your ignorant comment. women children sending streets soldiers husband vietnam vet ignorant comment
  • MaxxaM Kingsto... 2010/01/21 03:37:30
    MaxxaM
    And I thank him for serving this nation but many soldiers did kill innocent kids, and this has been throughout history, many Americans killed the natives, and during the age of imperialism in the philippines many were killed for being anti-american. face it, america has done horrible things in the past (slavery, racsim, etc.) but its also done very good things, like help the poor by donating and helping europe during both world wars :)
  • Damodi 2010/01/20 22:05:07
    Damodi
    +5
    America seems to be looked at as the bad guys of the world, especially when liberal media has a strangehold over it. They look at the world through rose-coloured glasses and expect everyone else to as well. Protecting your own countries people from terrorists is necessary and America should be congratulated for doing so well, although conventional warfare does nothing against a guerilla army, as you should have learned in Vietnam. But let's not get into this here. You could have capitulated after 9/11, but you didn't give up. Although I disagree with the war in Iraq and the reasons for going in there, it is now more than ever, necessary to stop the insurgency, and if they have presence in Iraq then much must be done to stop them. But because of this, the most vocal of the left, and therefore the media, spread hate to the rest of the world. Oh I forgot, except when they need help.
  • wpsark Damodi 2010/01/20 22:51:16
    wpsark
    +1
    well said
  • JakeS Damodi 2010/01/21 00:20:52
    JakeS
    Now, I realise that those on the right who like to drum up terrorism as a threat to rally against find it impolite to interject facts into the discussion. Nevertheless:

    Automobile fatalities: US: Approx. 40.000 per year. EU27: Approx. 40.000 per year.

    Homicide: US: Approx. 15.000 per year. EU27: Approximately 5.000 per year.

    Terrorism: US: Approx. 2.750 per decade. EU27: Approx. 250 per decade.

    These numbers support two immediate conclusions.

    First, and most important, the so-called "war on terror" is nothing but pandering to the most craven of cowardice, combined with a total disregard for the lives of non-white people (by way of comparison, the ongoing colonial wars in Central Asia and the Middle East have cost somewhere on the order of 1.5 million fatalities, of which approximately 1 million is directly attributable to NATO terror tactics, such as terror bombing, kidnappings, arbitrary shootings, etc.). Just at Guantanamo and Baghram alone, the Americans have committed abduction and torture of more people than Europe has lost to terrorist attacks in the last decade put together.

    Second, the Americans should really pause and think about their statistics here - they clock in three times as many homicides as the EU and about as many death-by-automobile... but on just a shade over half the population.

    - Jake
  • Damodi JakeS 2010/01/21 00:27:20
    Damodi
    I wasn't saying that the government is entirely blameless. I believe that when we violate basic human rights and torture someone who is just a "suspected" terrorist, the terrorists have already won. Sure, automobile fatalities and homicide is responsible for more deaths, but there is not much we can do about these things, other than impose heavier penalties for those who commit these crimes, and where is the sense in that?

    Terrorism isn't just a scapegoat to take attention away from government inadequacies and shortcomings, but is a serious problem that potentially has no ending.
  • JakeS Damodi 2010/01/21 00:38:25 (edited)
    JakeS
    Well, homicide can be reduced markedly by taking away the guns and following social democratic economic policy. As is attested by the marked difference in homicide rates between the US and Europe - and further demonstrated by the differences within Europe - where the Eastern Europe and the UK ("new Europe," if you will) top the homicide rates (at levels comparable to third-world countries like Egypt), while those countries that rejected the neoliberal koolaid (France, Germany, Scandinavia) are at the bottom, with less than half the number of homicides per thousand citizens.

    Automobile fatalities can be virtually eliminated if you move all commuter traffic from road to rail and bus. For the vast, vast majority of trips, cars add no extra value over and above a well-constructed, well-maintained rail net. Quite the contrary, in fact, a proper rail net is cheaper and more efficient than a car-based commuter system.

    Terrorism, meanwhile, is not only not a serious problem, it is not even cost-effective to remedy. Even if you completely exclude the fact that snake-oil terrorism "remedies" are all too often police state measures in a paper-thin disguise, the simple fact is that if we put the kind of money into upgrading the rail net and retiring the car fleet that we put into fighting the non-problem of terrorism, we would save far more lives.

    - Jake
  • Damodi JakeS 2010/01/21 00:43:04 (edited)
    Damodi
    But what happens when fist meets face and North Korea or China invades America? How are we to defend ourselves? What about a threat from inside the government, how are we to defend against that? It is our civic duty to remove all threats to freedom, by force if necessary. If the military has all the guns and the military is controlled by a corrupt government, it would be like the USSR all over again.

    Let me offer this piece of advice...you can help impoverished people who resort to killing and thievery to survive by helping them out with special welfare programs that go straight to the source of the problem, instead of just floating them along until the next drug hit.

    P.S. The plutocracy would never allow the motor car companies to go bankrupt due to no one buying any cars anymore.
  • JakeS Damodi 2010/01/21 12:20:25
    JakeS
    China does not have the logistical capacity to project power across the Pacific. And in the age of satellite surveillance, there is no way they can build up that kind of capacity on short notice and without being noticed. So if China does engage in a serious military buildup, there will be more than enough time to build up in response.

    If the military decides to move against democracy, you lose. Even if you defeat them in battle, you still lose. If you want to see the result of a battle between a modern military and a determined popular resistance, look at Fallujah or Beirut.

    Besides, the risk that the government will use the military to take power by force is slim to none. Both the oligarchs and the military are already on a very nice gravy train - none of them have any interest in rocking the boat.

    The real threat to American - indeed to Western(TM) - democracy is that your news sources are increasingly controlled by a smaller and smaller number of people, and your policymakers are increasingly in a revolving door relationship with belief tanks funded by clinically insane people like Scaife, Ahmanson and Murdoch. All this posturing about guns is... well, irrelevant.

    - Jake
  • boneman1 JakeS 2010/01/21 05:38:55
    boneman1
    One reason the statistics on deaths by terrorism in the U.S. are so low is because of the efforts to prevent it. That's not pandering to cowardice, it's doing what's necessary to protect the citizens of this country.
  • JakeS boneman1 2010/01/21 12:36:53
    JakeS
    Bullshit.

    You are talking about two orders of magnitude here, plus the loose change. Even if there were *ten times* as many terrorist attacks (yep, that's right, even if there were a 9/11 *every year*), you would still be looking at a problem that was less significant, by well over half an order of magnitude, than the excess homicides you have over Europe due to your prevalence of firearms and lack of social safety net. And by more than a full order of magnitude than death-by-car.

    These mythical terrorists would have to get a lot smarter, or get their hands on some rather more impressive firepower, to pose a serious threat.

    - Jake
  • Skeeter... JakeS 2010/01/21 21:44:29
    Skeeter -Hmm, Hmm, Hmm
    Let someone come and try to take my car or my gun. They would simply become another addition to your statistics.
  • JakeS Skeeter... 2010/01/22 02:06:23
    JakeS
    That worked out real well for Mrs. McVeigh and Koresh.

    - Jake
  • Skeeter... JakeS 2010/01/22 02:44:40
    Skeeter -Hmm, Hmm, Hmm
    Just because you don't like guns doesn't mean those of us who do should have to give them up to please you. I use mine for target shooting and protection in case some idiot decides to come into my house uninvited.
  • JakeS Skeeter... 2010/01/22 03:21:24
    JakeS
    Well, if you're a registered member of a skeet shooting club or a hunting guild, that does change matters.

    Nobody objects to people with the proper certification having access to firearms that are relevant to their job or hobbies - so long as they are kept properly disassembled and under lock and key, and the owners can prove that they have passed an exam in the appropriate use and handling of said firearms. Much the same way that nobody objects to a bus driver having access to a bus, or a race driver having access to a car, or a carpenter or park ranger driving around in a pickup truck.

    It's all the ordinary Joe Sixpacks who can't prove that they have a good reason to have a car or a gun who really shouldn't be having them.

    - Jake
  • Skeeter... JakeS 2010/01/22 03:27:21
    Skeeter -Hmm, Hmm, Hmm
    There are target shooting locations around where I live. I'm not a member of any of them but I go and shoot.

    I have a good reason to have a gun. There is something in the U.S. Constitution that says I have the right to bear arms. That's all I need and is a good enough reason for me.

    I have a good reason to have a car. I like driving one. See, in the U.S. that's the only reason I need and don't have to prove a damn thing to anyone to have it.
  • JakeS Skeeter... 2010/01/22 13:30:01
    JakeS
    And that, my friend, is why you live in a country with third-world-level homicide and vehicular manslaughter rates.

    - Jake
  • Skeeter... JakeS 2010/01/22 13:38:05
    Skeeter -Hmm, Hmm, Hmm
    I would rather live where I live and have choices than have the mentality you do living in a country where you have been brainwashed the government to believe they should control those types of things. The homocide rate we have here is not because of people like me who use guns properly but because of the thugs who own guns and aren't dealt with properly by the court system. But, that's a whole different topic.
  • JakeS Skeeter... 2010/01/22 16:02:17
    JakeS
    The US is a sovereign country, so if you decide through the democratic process that you like living in a third-world country... well, no skin off my nose.

    Doesn't make the wrr on trr any less a crock of shit, though.

    - Jake
  • Skeeter... JakeS 2010/01/22 16:06:41
  • JakeS Skeeter... 2010/01/22 21:41:29 (edited)
    JakeS
    Another difference, and one which should not be so readily discounted, is that on my side of the Pond, our bridges don't fall down under their own weight. And our levees hold when the wind blows.

    Well, the matter of automobiles, at least, will be decided by simple geophysical reality anyway, and in reasonably short order:

    weight levees hold wind blows automobiles simple geophysical reality order
    Peak Oil: Coming to a gas station near you.

    - Jake
  • Skeeter... JakeS 2010/01/23 01:24:27
    Skeeter -Hmm, Hmm, Hmm
    If you are speaking of New Orleans, when someone is dumbass enough to live in a bowl, they should realize the water will fill it up when it rains hard. A solution would be to not live in a bowl.
  • JakeS Skeeter... 2010/01/23 06:46:44 (edited)
    JakeS
    I am deeply moved by your concern for your fellow citizens.

    Oh, right, I forgot that most of your fellow citizens in New Orleans had committed the grievous crime of being born with the wrong skin colour. My mistake.

    Oh, and I35W - who needs terrorists when you have Republicans.

    (For the record, if you had gone with the Dutch levee designs and maintenance schedule, they would have held. That was deemed too expensive. Well, with infrastructure you get what you pay for. And the US right now is paying for third world infrastructure.)

    - Jake
  • Skeeter... JakeS 2010/01/23 13:46:16
    Skeeter -Hmm, Hmm, Hmm
    Skin color has nothing to do with it until YOU played the race card. The mayor of the city considered race more than I did when he said New Orleans was going to be a "Chocolate City" again. I see you, just like all others who have no viable argument, go for the race avenue. That simply invalidates any thing you have, are, or will say on this matter. The only mistake here is you thinking you have a clue. Stay in Denmark. You fit well there. Stay out of the U.S. as you wouldn't last long here.

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