Is America Marching Towards Socialism?

by safari Posted 2009/02/07 00:07:05

690 votes
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	YES	434 votes	63%
	NO	120 votes	17%
	SOMEWHAT BUT NOT ENTIRELY	78 votes	11%
	Undecided	58 votes	8%

Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Lee_Peterson

Bond Action: http://www.bondaction.org/

+139

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Southern Man 2009/02/07 15:30:10

YES

+23
lil'barry 09 ........................... seems like we are letting this no good hack take us there i for one dont like it at all .................. i wonder how the sheeple feel about lil'barry now ..... dumb question thay are still drunk on the kool aid .................. God Save Us All
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integri... to Cattaro 2009/02/08 21:39:20

We agree again... I not believe that debt yields a health economy. Our government and citizens spend too much money that they don't have. Fortunately, yes, I do know some who do not spend more than they have and are not in debt. Capitalism and debt should not be linked together.

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Butch to Cattaro 2009/02/09 15:58:50 (edited)
safari to Butch 2009/02/10 06:14:57

+2

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Butch to safari 2009/02/10 16:47:25
beth...... to Butch 2009/02/11 02:42:32

+1
Really! The first thing congress would do, with access to your money, is to vote themselves a pay-raise. Yeah, turning our money over to them is a completely [in]sane thing to do.

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Butch to beth...... 2009/02/11 02:48:22
rosepetal to integri... 2009/02/08 23:05:54

I hope you never need help.

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Butch to Cattaro 2009/02/09 15:54:41
patblue... to matty507 2009/02/08 18:58:05

You are mistaken.

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rosepetal to matty507 2009/02/08 23:04:43

You should always know about what you are against fool.

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rosepetal to Cattaro 2009/02/08 23:03:50

Thank you Tihomir these dud heads are only listening to the opposion who have no problem letting us starve and live in the streets. they think that the depression is the right way to go?

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Butch to Cattaro 2009/02/09 15:53:39
dman 2009/02/08 14:57:44 (edited)

NO

+4
America's political and economic system is already a mix of socialism and capitalism.

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Rah to dman 2009/02/09 12:19:24

+1
I'm sorry but it just isn't. There is no mix that I can discern. It is far closer to laissezfaire capitalism which is a stone-age economic system. The US is so afraid of the 'Reds' and swept in irrational fear that they will refuse to even consider the positive aspects of Socialism.

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dman to Rah 2009/02/09 12:29:54

I agree with you concerning the refusal of the US to consider that some aspects of socialism are positive.

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Rah to dman 2009/02/09 12:53:20

Thankyou, I will concede a slight mix but it is quite hard to see with taxes that low and state funding in a similar boat. What were your thoughts on the video :D?

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katrinadomi 2009/02/08 14:55:47

NO

+2
I tell you, you´re not. Canada, France, England, have been applying the same policies as you do now and they are democratic capitalist countries since decades.

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matty507 to katrina... 2009/02/08 15:14:27 (edited)
David M... to matty507 2009/02/08 16:58:34 (edited)

+2
the most bankrupt nation right now is the nation who chose unfettered free-market reaganesque old boy capitalism: the United States.

And if socialism equals bankruptcy, then explain the case of our socialist, marxist, communist, liberal, baby-killing, unamerican, homosexual 'neighbours' to the north. Canada has had a balanced budget for years. Not only are social services harder and more expensive to deliver in thinly-populated nations like Canada, but national debt in Canada is only slightly above 25% of GDP, which is contrasted with the average 62% average in other G7 nations, and the 77% debt to GDP ratio in the United States.

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Wells to David M... 2009/02/08 18:23:20 (edited)

+1
In explanation, people in specific regions of thinly populated nations have to depend upon each other rather than upon outside sources. In the US, 'consumers' are a large and accessable market in which service and goods 'providers' compete for market share, aiming in the long-term to bankrupt the competition, but in the short term raising the cost of providing the service and goods. When companies merge, the US stock market reflects a gain in the market value of the surviving company even though people lose their jobs. Competition more often raises the cost of services and goods. Not a perfect explanation, but something to think about.

"Downsizing through attrition will work if
enough employees cooperate and die"

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David M... to Wells 2009/02/08 19:19:03

good post.

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Brawnica to katrina... 2009/02/08 18:17:47

And they are socialist.

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very Conservative "me" 2009/02/08 14:52:17

YES

+1
And we're letting them

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Rah 2009/02/08 14:50:42

NO

+2
What an emotive topic! I wonder what kind of responses we will see here...

The US is so far into unregulated capitalism right now that I doubt it could ever reach socialism. The only hope for the US is to bring itself UP to the standard of other developed countries and have more state run initiates such as healthcare and GOD-FORBID EDUCATION!

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Avarice to Rah 2009/02/08 15:43:39

+4
too right.

capitalism under bush was rampant and out of control.
we're seeing the after-effects of it right now with the economic disaster.

AS FOR THE VIDEO - thats just hilarious.

we saw the same thing after the great depression in the 1930's
FDR (franklin delano roosevelt) implemented radical change and increased government regulation to help the economy. he did the same thing obama is doing now - used massive government spending and regulation to help the economy.

YET.
the 1930's was no the end of american capitalism, was it?

there is no way america is heading towards socialism.
stop running around with your cold war-like red fever and calm the fuck down.

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Rah to Avarice 2009/02/08 15:45:10 (edited)

+1
I especially love the bit were he said fuck :D

P.S. - I'm truly enjoying all the economics professors in this thread, good work with that.

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rosepetal to Avarice 2009/02/08 23:10:19

Avarice YES YES YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...

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ray 2009/02/08 14:28:37

YES

+2
If you would like to kill the "stimulus bill" instantly, add an amendment that " any person who accepts government funds , either public or private sector, who commits any crime with the use of these funds faces a mandatory 50 year prison sentence. Without the kickbacks, bribes, redirection and outright theft this bill has no purpose

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Rah to ray 2009/02/08 15:11:43 (edited)

+2
Ray, don't talk such lies. Seriously... money, so long as it is spent into the economy and is circulated will benefit the economy and create jobs! If you can find EVIDENCE of the things you listed above, please, post the hell out of it!

Unless you have a degree in Economics I suggest you don't speak without thinking.

I hate that clip too! And they say there is a liberal media bias. That segment was the most frighteningly biased and fear-mongering clip I have seen in a long time!

*FFS! I just finished watching the video too (i was 1.5mins out before), and the guy actually lists a whole series of 'atrocities' in the bill - BUT THEY ALL CREATE WORK AND JOBS!!!! FFS! and then, by some divine showing of terrific hypocrisy, he accuses Obama of fear-mongering! There is no hope for mankind with shows like this.

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Ray to Rah 2009/02/09 14:49:25

+3
Rah
A: morons with degrees in economics are responsible for the current state of affairs. I wish not to join or aid them.
B: I don't speak without thinking, corruption in government is a real and viable threat to the American way of life.
C: Every single penny the government posses was taken by the threat of men with guns coming to seize property, money and the threat of prison, from a free person.
D: Should you desire evidence do a little investigation of your own ( I'll not open myself to slander) , Here a few clues, a sitting congressman accused of taking bribes has a $100,000 in his freezer at home, great lakes governor indicted for attempting to sell a senate seat, courts now trying to settle a senate seat that has more votes than residents, A "big dig " in Boston costing billions of dollars, now crumbling and responsible for deaths. I could continue a little research will go a long way
E: Money spent will create jobs, true, I believe that private enterprise and individuals making their own choices, minding their own affairs shall do more and create more than a government bureaucracy.
F: Should the Socialist model (healthcare, welfare, business controls, etc.) be of such value, why does every country on earth that now or ever existed lag so far behind America in our worst of times.

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safari to Ray 2009/02/10 06:17:23

+1

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Ray to safari 2009/02/11 03:33:45

+1
thank you

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Rah to safari 2009/02/16 14:41:40

ahh....a clap for the emotive argument.

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Rah to Ray 2009/02/16 14:40:44

A. I disagree, people with degrees in economics that manipulated the system for themselves are responsible, not economists in general. You still need some idea of how it works to comment reliably on the effect of this bill.
B.Corruption is real, but, yeah, not in this bill and it is FAR less prevalent than you might think.
C. It's called a taxation system, don't like it? Join the Great Depression era and say goodbye to ANY public utility or infrasturcture.
D. I don't need to do research to support your view! that is your job, if you value your view enough to support it. I support my side and we try to convince each other. That, my dear Ray (or ray, whichever account you want to use), is debate.
E. That is your opinion and I respect that. There are pros and cons to both methods.
F. haha, haha....hahah......HAHAHAHAHH... we are fucking your country up right now mate!!! HAHA!!! My standard of living and that of all other countries with social welfare systems is 10x what yours is. Sure, your country turns a healthy profit, but at what cost, and a profit for who?
Wow, that was funny...

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Nobody Incorporated 2009/02/08 14:21:06

NO

+3
America is not becoming Socialist. We are becoming a more concentrated Federal Union. More powers are coming from the Federal apparatus than the State governments now. Overtime I see places like Alaska or Kansas will lose much of their identity as individual "city-states" due to the rise of technology. It becomes inevitable, that the only way to survive as our population increases, and our infrastructure becomes larger (and deteriorates), utilities spread and epidemics become more likely because of population density, and our economy becomes larger and more complex, is to rely on Federal oversight to direct and regulate the massive country's resources.

A problem with this shift in authority, however, is that the Electoral College gives a disproportionate amount of representation to ideologically-charged states like Kansas with lower population. If you're a libertarian you could say that the College keeps Big Government in check, but the expansion of the Federal system isn't a threat in and of itself, atleast in my opinion.

It is my belief that a form of direct democracy is possible in lieu of the Web these days. It won't come anytime soon, but you could say it'd be the closest we'll get to real "Soviet (worker's councils) power", where groups of people (either trade unionists or Joe Si...'

America is not becoming Socialist. We are becoming a more concentrated Federal Union. More powers are coming from the Federal apparatus than the State governments now. Overtime I see places like Alaska or Kansas will lose much of their identity as individual "city-states" due to the rise of technology. It becomes inevitable, that the only way to survive as our population increases, and our infrastructure becomes larger (and deteriorates), utilities spread and epidemics become more likely because of population density, and our economy becomes larger and more complex, is to rely on Federal oversight to direct and regulate the massive country's resources.

A problem with this shift in authority, however, is that the Electoral College gives a disproportionate amount of representation to ideologically-charged states like Kansas with lower population. If you're a libertarian you could say that the College keeps Big Government in check, but the expansion of the Federal system isn't a threat in and of itself, atleast in my opinion.

It is my belief that a form of direct democracy is possible in lieu of the Web these days. It won't come anytime soon, but you could say it'd be the closest we'll get to real "Soviet (worker's councils) power", where groups of people (either trade unionists or Joe Six Pack; I wouldn't expect being in a Union as a prerequisite) all have equal say and vote their conscience with an educated decision.
(more)

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sharon 2009/02/08 14:14:19

YES

+5
Yes you would have to be pretty stupid not to think that's what the Democrates want to do. They have all the power now so GOD HELP US !!!!!! They have already taken millions from us & filled there own pockets & made suar they get a nice pay check & retirement. WAKE UP PEOPLE WERE IN ALOT OF TROUBLE.

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Nobody ... to sharon 2009/02/08 15:54:31

Libertarianism is merely a counterbalance to the Big Government advocates. Operating as a Confederacy wouldn't work in the 21st century. Not with our population and amount of infrastructure to be maintained.

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DivaDarling Miss Winchester 2009/02/08 14:13:23

Undecided

damn what are you talking about???????

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safari to DivaDar... 2009/02/09 01:32:44

Well come back and read some of the replies. That should answer your question. :)

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lin 2009/02/08 14:04:49