In Writing: Under ObamaCare, up to $1,900 fee or jail, If You Don't Buy Health Insurance Is Obamacare unconstitutional?

CAPISCE 2012/11/15 14:51:43
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USA Today:, Brown reported that Ensign got a clarification on what the result of "normal collection proceedings" might be, and got it in writing (HT Hot Air):

Sen. John Ensign (R-Nev.) received a handwritten note Thursday from Joint Committee on Taxation Chief of Staff Tom Barthold confirming the penalty for failing to pay the up to $1,900 fee for not buying health insurance.

Violators could be charged with a misdemeanor and could face up to a year in jail or a $25,000 penalty, Barthold wrote on JCT letterhead. He signed it "Sincerely, Thomas A. Barthold."

Americans who fail to pay the penalty for not buying insurance would face legal action from the Internal Revenue Service, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation.

The remarks Thursday from the committee's chief of staff, Thomas Barthold, seems to further weaken President Barack Obama's contention last week that the individual mandate penalty, which could go as high as $1,900, is not a tax increase.

Under questioning from Sen. John Ensign (R-Nev.), Barthold said the IRS would "take you to court and undertake normal collection proceedings."

Ensign pursued the line of questioning because he said a lot of Americans don't believe the Constitution allows the government to mandate the purchase of insurance.

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  • RandyScott (TCOG) 2012/11/15 15:28:35
    RandyScott (TCOG)
    Regardless of what the Supreme Court decided, I believe it to be Unconstitutional. The president has said that the fine imposed by the individual mandate is not a tax, but the Supreme court has decided that it is.

    So tell me who is right? Either the president lied, or the Supreme Court is wrong.

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  • UnaffiliatedIndie 2012/11/27 19:37:33
    To quote Rick Ungar at Forbes Magazine,

    "In July of 1798, Congress passed – and President John Adams signed - “An Act for the Relief of Sick and Disabled Seamen.” The law authorized the creation of a government-operated marine hospital service and mandated that all privately employed seamen be required to purchase health care insurance. [This program was later extended to lake and riverboat sailors, as well. ...]

    Keep in mind that the 5th Congress did not really need to struggle over the intentions of the drafters of the Constitutions in creating this Act as many of its members WERE the drafters of the Constitution."

    So much for claims that an individual mandate requiring the purchase of health insurance is unconstitutional.

    (The relevant article is available online at:
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/r... ) and commented upon at http://voices.washingtonpost....
  • Andrew 2012/11/20 23:27:01
    Obamacare violates the Constitution and is worthy of repeal.
  • shaltov72 2012/11/18 22:50:22
    A mandate by the federal government is un-Constitutional, obama care is more penalties and new taxes which surpress peoples freedoms thats why the colonists went against England and its king! Welcome to the new tyrannical government!
  • clasact 2012/11/18 11:00:49
    The ruleing by the court says it is constitutional so that ends weather or not it is or is not.Personally I belive its way past time for this country to come into the light and see that everyone needs health care as they have in other coutries.The fact that some still belive that death panels and jail is part of the health care law just goes to show how many have not read it or understand it
  • CAPISCE clasact 2012/11/18 13:06:48
  • clasact CAPISCE 2012/11/18 14:54:59
    Of course it is going to cost to get this going but in the long term it will be benificial to all and good for the country.To think this was not going to cost anything to get started would be plain stupid
  • shaltov72 clasact 2012/11/18 22:57:39
    It would have been alot less if there were not so many illegals and freeloaders, 85 hospitals were closed due to illegals in the southern states, more burderns on those trying to have a job and many businesses are firing the those who get 40 hours and will be hiring part-time, great advancement huh? It is another way of the dictator of destroying this nation and free markets. obama will close all the doors for insurance companies and will close the doors for research and development! So you go ahead and believe all the lies and hype! Welcome to tyranny!
  • CAPISCE clasact 2012/11/19 00:03:13 (edited)
    We are currently 17 Trillion in debt.
    It's like taking a loan out for a 2013 Benz, when you are behind in payments on your 2001 Kia
  • shaltov72 clasact 2012/11/18 22:53:14
    Its un-Constitutional, and it is the same oppression that the colonists fought against the king of england for!
  • clasact shaltov72 2012/11/19 03:39:29
    Funny the suprem court dose not agree with you and neither do I
  • CAPISCE clasact 2012/11/20 21:55:49
    Not really true--they said it was a tax
  • clasact CAPISCE 2012/11/20 22:02:00
    So its a tax its still not unconstitutional and it is long over due in my opinion
  • Boyosemu 2012/11/18 03:04:46
    yes, yes and yes
  • syl 2012/11/16 22:20:06
    I voted for Romney & for what Romney stood for-Patriotism, Reduce Gov't PORK/spending, get rid of Ovomitcare, support our allies instead of stabbing them in the back, protect our DIPLOMATS & American's both abroad & home-instead of watching in real time 6 hrs. of a brutal attack resulting in our AMBASSADOR STEVENS death, as well as 3 others, etc.

    I'm sick of Obama. He's a nightmare, who got voted in by whatever means necessary. Now American's have to deal with the nightmare another 4 yrs. Our country & it's freedoms which so many patriots died to protect, are on Obama's chopping block.
  • shaltov72 syl 2012/11/18 23:01:16
    syl, I know what you are saying but the liberal dumcophs will never understand and those who get free obama phones, they voted in a person who could care less about 4 Americans who were murdered in Bengahzi just wait till the FEMA camps are in full swing the whole goal of these satanic creeps is to get rid of the population nazi germany was an experiment now its real life big stuff! Georgia Guide Stone!
  • syl shaltov72 2012/11/20 02:06:02
    Yah, I guess those free phones were more important than anything on earth-more important than freedom, than values, than American lives. than honor, than the sacrifice of all of our Armed Forces. It's like those experiments they did with rats-if they dangled the food in front of them, if they went through the right doors-they'd get the food!

    Same thing, only now it's people! Really, really scary!
  • Quazimoto 2012/11/16 19:46:27
    Unconstitutional, against the law, when have these things mattered to this administration.
    The delusional president see's himself as Black Judge Dredd.

  • shaltov72 Quazimoto 2012/11/18 23:01:52
    obama the dicktator!
  • Silvershadows 2012/11/16 17:29:12
    It's only Constitutional If you believe you and all the 'needy' will receive "free" Health Insurance and the money to pay for it will come from someone else. I've always wondered if Chief Justice Roberts was THREATENED AND THEREBY CONVINCED to vote that it was part of the taxation sham. Wouldn't put anything past Obama and his surrogates!! He's planning for all this to go into effect after Hillary and the UN's Small Army Treaty makes the Constitution irrelevant, the 2nd Amendment void and they get to confiscate all the small arms "to make the world safer"----YEAH, for them. They all may be in for a rude surprise.
  • ProudPr... Silvers... 2012/11/18 05:48:02
    LOL what was Roberts threatened with? He has a lifetime job that he can't be fired from.
  • Silvers... ProudPr... 2012/11/30 00:48:54
    IF Obama is a closet Muslim (I think he is) his quote," If the political winds change I will support my Muslim Brothers") and recall how the Muslims threaten someone----issue a death sentence. Would Obama and his cohorts quietly infer such to the Chief Justice? Do I trust Obama, his Czars and supporters-------?????? considering that Black Friday was the biggest day for gun sales and the FBI crashed twice trying to do the background checks------it looks like a lot don't trust Obama. Being fired is not something the Chief Justice would fear.
  • shaltov72 Silvers... 2012/11/18 23:04:09
    roberts was bought off just like the rest of the incompetent politicians who do not go by the US Constitution!
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

    As some have said, "The Republic can survive a Barack Obama. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their President."
  • ProudProgressive 2012/11/16 16:26:46
    First of all, the Health Care Reform Law is constitutional because the Supreme Court said it was constitutional. End of debate.

    Second of all, you cannot be sent to jail for not having health insurance. That one was debunked years ago, along with death panels and 20,000 new IRS agents to scour the country looking for people without health insurance. It just isn't so.

    Third of all, the law contains exemptions and waivers for a lot of people in the lower income brackets as well as small businesses below a certain size.

    Fourth of all, among your many factual errors, you seem to overlook the fact that this article is over three years old and took place before the final version of the law was even being discussed. It was irrelevant then and it is more than irrelevant now, three years later. You should at least keep up with current events.
  • CAPISCE ProudPr... 2012/11/17 12:47:47
    No they sad it was a tax---big difference
  • ProudPr... CAPISCE 2012/11/17 17:10:32
    Irrelevant. The law is constitutional. Live with it. Or leave. But if you leave, realize that any country you're likely to go to has universal "socialized" medicine. In fact, the United States is the only country in the world that allows for-profit private primary care coverage.
  • shaltov72 ProudPr... 2012/11/18 23:12:52
    for-profit private primary care coverage is going out in time with taxes that are in the obama scare. It is done incrementally!
  • shaltov72 ProudPr... 2012/11/18 23:06:43
    You absolutely do not know what the obama nazi care says or have not read it, it will destroy the freemarket, as most communists want to do and obama is doing exactly what hitler did in nazi germany!
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

    As some have said, "The Republic can survive a Barack Obama. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their President."
  • shaltov72 ProudPr... 2012/11/18 23:09:59
    Businesses are already laying off perminient workers for part-time, I have talked to 2 people in the last week that lost their jobs and they were told it was because of obama care! Better get educated a mandate is against the US Constitution and I'm sure you do not know the real history of the US Constitution, it show by your comment!
  • shaltov72 ProudPr... 2012/11/18 23:11:23
    the only waivers are muslims, and politicians!
  • exhon2009 2012/11/16 16:11:27
    I think the supreme court got this one wrong. I suspect John Robert's wife wasn't getting invited to the best cocktail parties in DC.
  • ProudPr... exhon2009 2012/11/16 16:29:08
    Whether they did or not, their ruling is the Law of the Land. It is constitutional because the Supreme Court says it is constitutional. Period. I believe that Citizens United was grossly unconstitutional, and that there is nothing in the Constitution whatsoever that even suggests that corporations have the same rights as human beings or that money constitutes speech under the First Amendment. But Citizens United is the Law of the Land, and I have to live with it. I have urged my members of Congress to amend the Constitution to eliminate the effects of Citizens United, but unless they do, I am stuck with the ruling as is the rest of the country.
  • exhon2009 ProudPr... 2012/11/16 17:42:02
    The supreme court of the United States upheld slavery too PP. I don't know if they will ever reverse course on Obamacare but I believe they got it wrong, just like you progressives think they got it wrong on Citizens United. Or do you think they got that one right too?
  • ProudPr... exhon2009 2012/11/16 17:57:25 (edited)
    Yes they did. Slavery was legal in the United States until 1865. People didn't like the fact that slavery was legal under the Constitution so they passed the 13th Amendment. If you don't like the Health Care Reform Law then by all means try to amend the Constitution to eliminate it. But if you can't get the votes, then live with it.

    And no, I don't think they got it right in Citizens United. That's why I and millions of other Americans ARE trying to get the Constitution amended so that corporations are no longer considered people and money is no longer considered speech. That's how a democracy works.

    If you're also not happy about Citizens United, maybe you'd like to help us:

  • exhon2009 ProudPr... 2012/11/16 18:41:59
    What about Unions. Do you consider unions to be people? It is possible for the Supreme Court to reverse without a constitutional amendment.
  • ProudPr... exhon2009 2012/11/16 18:59:17
    I don't consider unions to be people. I'm not sure why you ask.
  • shaltov72 ProudPr... 2012/11/18 23:15:56
    You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
    You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
    You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
    You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down.
    You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
    You cannot build character and courage by taking away people's initiative and independence.
    You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves.
    ... Abraham Lincoln
    "WE THE PEOPLE", are the rightful masters of both Congress and the
    courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who
    pervert the Constitution." Abraham Lincoln
  • shaltov72 ProudPr... 2012/11/18 23:16:57
    obama care more slavery welcome to the new tyranny!
  • Yes
    One of Y'shua's,דָּנִיֵּאל
    why.. because I say it is SO and SO DOES THE CONSTITUTION...
  • Groundskeeper Willy 2012/11/16 14:54:50
    Groundskeeper Willy
    there are two definitions of "general welfare clause". The precedent was set in the 1930s by the FDR court which ruled Social Security was constitutional. While I disagee vehemently with the court, The Court has decided General Welfare indicates "Candy Store" as well.
    I believe the mandate in it's current form is unconstitutional, had congress had the balls to try to add it as a "payroll" deduction, it would have been legal, but it also would not have passed.
  • shaltov72 Grounds... 2012/11/18 23:18:29
    Most of the judges and courts are owned by the banking elitists have you ever heard of
    rothchilds and what he said he could do about laws?
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