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"If you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem." Do you believe in this? Can't a person just be not part of it at all?

SeaSparkzz 2009/04/07 05:04:40
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It's not true, because...
I'm not sure...
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Is it really that black and white? Can't a person be passive without being considered part of the problem?
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  • Lavendergrl 2009/04/07 05:21:34
    It's not true, because...
    Lavendergrl
    +3
    The logic is flawed. Often those who will ultimately work to solve the problem WERE part of the original problem to begin with. It's those who don't like being the problem who are willing to work for change. In the vin diagram all people are encased within the "problem" circle, whether they are working toward the solution or not.

    Nope, sorry. I can only see shades of gray on this one.

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  • Moose 2009/05/20 04:41:24
    It's not true, because...
    Moose
    +1
    That's how people die.
  • SeaSparkzz Moose 2009/05/20 04:45:42
    SeaSparkzz
    +1
    what do you mean?
  • Moose SeaSparkzz 2009/05/20 04:49:07
    Moose
    +1
    It's goes along the same lines as "you're either with us, or against us" and we all have seen where that got us.
  • SeaSparkzz Moose 2009/05/20 04:53:48
    SeaSparkzz
    +1
    yeah, good point.
  • sglmom 2009/04/19 19:56:35
    I'm not sure...
    sglmom
    +1
    Sometimes, things are SO .. broken ...

    That the ONLY Choice is to let it die .. do a major 'house-cleaning' ...

    And be part of the process when it is dead and gone to be there and help start fresh -- build something NEW, something that is BETTER Than what failed (and we finally, completely -- refused to support it (the failure) anymore at all).

    That is why I am not sure .. sometimes just LETTING things happen .. and then being part of the individuals who band together to help BUILD the new IS the best option!
  • Mejink 2009/04/08 03:44:22
    It's not true, because...
    Mejink
    +1
    No matter what you do, you'll be a part of it. You're involved right now. While I can't bitch at you for not caring and being complacent, leaving it up to the rest of us to just take care of it (whatever it is we're talking about :P), it does make me appreciate those who are willing to do something about it more. I admit there are few people I know who even care, and most live far away.

    I'm writing a story right now in which there are three main groups in an oppressed society. The ones who are aware and have been for a long time and have been secretly preparing in their own way, trying to convince others who are equally prepared yet don't believe. Another group which is prepared but only because they are prepared to fight anything that threatens defense. And a third group that shuts out all new information as not to be bothered with it and inevitably they are the first group that gets attacked when the invaders come. So there can be your representations. Goodbye, Penevi. We will miss you.
  • Joves the Instigator 2009/04/08 03:36:53
    It's not true, because...
    Joves the Instigator
    +1
    No because a lot of the mess we are in is from passivism. To me it is almost as bad as apathy. In order to fix things takes being active and, getting others to do the same.
  • ET 2009/04/07 21:12:52
  • SeaSparkzz ET 2009/04/07 21:16:09 (edited)
    SeaSparkzz
    maybe you misunderstood the question?
    I was asking if it is true that if you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem. You just said both.... Or I am confused.
  • ET SeaSparkzz 2009/04/07 21:30:05
  • SeaSparkzz ET 2009/04/07 21:33:20
    SeaSparkzz
    +1
    Okay, my bad! It was me that misunderstood the reply.
    I get it now, thanks for explaining that to me.
  • ET SeaSparkzz 2009/04/07 21:44:34
  • Evie 2009/04/07 21:06:44
    I'm not sure...
    Evie
    I'm not for sure really. Sorry.
  • ZILdeactivated 2009/04/07 18:29:45
    It's not true, because...
    ZILdeactivated
    +1
    It depends on the situation.
  • SeaSparkzz ZILdeac... 2009/04/07 19:01:13
    SeaSparkzz
    +1
    Can you please give an example of how it is not true?
  • ZILdeac... SeaSparkzz 2009/04/07 21:02:43
    ZILdeactivated
    +2
    If the problem is: the dog needs fed; he's hungry. Then if you feed him, you're part of the solution. If you don't, he's still hungry, and thus you are part of the problem.

    If the problem is: the cost of wheat is rising in China. I'm not going to be part of the problem, because I don't live in China. I'm not going to be part of the solution, because I'm not flying all the way to China to buy rice.
  • SeaSparkzz ZILdeac... 2009/04/07 21:04:22
    SeaSparkzz
    +1
    Thank you. :)
  • ET ZILdeac... 2009/04/07 21:14:29
  • Isabel-Publius 2009/04/07 13:37:33
  • The Myth 2009/04/07 13:31:14
    It's true, because...
    The Myth
    +1
    I've been that way my whole life [just here, there, and everywhere].....even when I was in the Army! lol
  • Angellbabay 2009/04/07 10:46:21
    It's true, because...
    Angellbabay
    +1
    Life is a series of choices and not making a choice doesnt exclude you it is option C. not choosing only means that you dont care enough to have an opinion, thats not a good or a bad thing but it is a choice...
  • Moderated 2009/04/07 09:58:56
    It's true, because...
    Moderated
    +1
    Because I see it everyday by whiney, hollow elitists and people who believe they should get everything for free.
  • SeaSparkzz Moderated 2009/04/07 10:08:20
    SeaSparkzz
    Can you explain how elitists and people who think they should get everything fro free falls into this?
  • Moderated SeaSparkzz 2009/04/07 10:33:35
    Moderated
    2 groups....the elitists who want 2 classes: haves and have nots. and people who don't want to work and want the government to give them everything. Both of those groups seem to *always* bring up issues most Americans have worked hard to correct...

    we ALL deserve a chance...nothing's for free. nothing good, at least.
  • my account? 2009/04/07 07:57:06
  • infinityorzero 2009/04/07 06:05:33
    It's not true, because...
    infinityorzero
    +2
    If you're not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate.
  • SeaSparkzz infinit... 2009/04/07 06:10:25
    SeaSparkzz
    Can you explain how that statement correlates to it not being true?
  • infinit... SeaSparkzz 2009/04/07 07:09:31
    infinityorzero
    +1
    It's a silly chemistry joke. Solids that come out of a liquid solution are called the precipitate. It's got nothing to do with the truth of the statement.
  • SeaSparkzz infinit... 2009/04/07 07:10:25
    SeaSparkzz
    Okay, cool :)
  • lslsttn 2009/04/07 05:40:46
    I'm not sure...
    lslsttn
    +1
    As long as you don't mind other people deciding the fate of your grandchildren, then sure, you can just not be a part of it. Here's the thing. Ever since I was a little girl, I've gotten the message from the news that the government will squash you if you bug it. Well, okay, I could deal with that, as long as it didn't squash me and I had my freedoms, my liberties, my democracy. Well, guess what. I dont' have those things any more. Here, read this, and then go to You Tube and search for the video using the information at the top; and see what she says about "vertical stacking."

    Naomi Wolf, author, The End of America (Notes from lecture at Kane Hall Univ. of WA Seattle, October 11, 2007. How Democracies close Down (Ref. Italy in the 20’s, Germany in the 30’s Russia in the 30’s, E. Germany in the 50’s, Czechoslovakia in 60’s, Pinochet’s Chile, Chinese in the 80’s). Every “would-be dictator whether on the left or right does the same 10 things. It is a predictive blueprint.” All 10 elements are being used right now in the United States:
    1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external threat. (Stalin – “sleeper cells” “Homeland,” “Embedded Journalists.”
    2. Create a secret prison system where torture takes place, with military tribunals. (Lenin, Mussolini, Hitler.)
    3. Create a paramilit...













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    As long as you don't mind other people deciding the fate of your grandchildren, then sure, you can just not be a part of it. Here's the thing. Ever since I was a little girl, I've gotten the message from the news that the government will squash you if you bug it. Well, okay, I could deal with that, as long as it didn't squash me and I had my freedoms, my liberties, my democracy. Well, guess what. I dont' have those things any more. Here, read this, and then go to You Tube and search for the video using the information at the top; and see what she says about "vertical stacking."

    Naomi Wolf, author, The End of America (Notes from lecture at Kane Hall Univ. of WA Seattle, October 11, 2007. How Democracies close Down (Ref. Italy in the 20’s, Germany in the 30’s Russia in the 30’s, E. Germany in the 50’s, Czechoslovakia in 60’s, Pinochet’s Chile, Chinese in the 80’s). Every “would-be dictator whether on the left or right does the same 10 things. It is a predictive blueprint.” All 10 elements are being used right now in the United States:
    1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external threat. (Stalin – “sleeper cells” “Homeland,” “Embedded Journalists.”
    2. Create a secret prison system where torture takes place, with military tribunals. (Lenin, Mussolini, Hitler.)
    3. Create a paramilitary force. Blackwater – operating on Main Street, got a billion dollar contract to increase deployment in American in the event of natural disaster or public emergency. President can move the National Guard to other states over the objection of the Governors and not tell Congress about it until after the fact. You can’t close down a democracy without a paramilitary force.
    4. Surveillance apparatus. (After Berlin wall fell Defense industry lost 1/3 of its market share. Manufacturers shifted from cold war weapons to security industrial complex technologists. On the List: Constitutional Scholar Richard Murphy, War Times Editors, Code Pink, ACLU, Greenpeace, Decorated war hero – his whole family. Welfare benefits, job opportunities close down if you are on the list.
    5. Arbitrarily detain and release citizens, infiltrate citizens groups (see ACLU)
    6. Target key individuals (Jag military lawyers who would not sell out the detainees, Dixie Chicks, Bill Mahrer, and Dan Rather)
    7. Restrict the Press – (Banking Story, NY times Bill Keller, reported classified program that White House was following bank financial records, White House called for prosecution for treason.)
    8. Definition of traitor, terrorist, spy starts to expand. Law passed last fall expanded the definition of terror to include animal rights activists. Staffers for CBS were seized and held without charges in abusive prisons in Iraq. Recast criticisms at traitorous.
    9. Subvert rule of law. US attorney scandal: Emails show that WH was playing around with firing all of the US attorneys at once.
    10. Closed societies: Elections still, but corrupted. Republican staffers menacing people counting votes in FL.
    What We Can Do: The window is closing, the Blueprint is predictable. Persuaded by the historical record - National Uprising to restore democracy is urgent. Ordinary Americans to assume the Patriot’s task and fight to restore democracy. Take on the responsibility. It’s our job. But we have to believe in our power. The time to stand up is now.

    END of Summary.

    Now, look what has happened since then: This is part of the Bill Moyers Journal show and a comment at the bottom from morning40oz

    The Great Depression, we said, "Hey, we have to learn the facts. What caused this disaster, so that we can take steps, like pass the Glass-Steagall law, that will prevent future disasters?" Where's our investigation?

    What would happen if after a plane crashes, we said, "Oh, we don't want to look in the past. We want to be forward looking. Many people might have been, you know, we don't want to pass blame. No. We have a nonpartisan, skilled inquiry. We spend lots of money on, get really bright people. And we find out, to the best of our ability, what caused every single major plane crash in America. And because of that, aviation has an extraordinarily good safety record. We ought to follow the same policies in the financial sphere. We have to find out what caused the disasters, or we will keep reliving them. . . .

    Moyers: Yeah. Are you saying that Timothy Geithner, the Secretary of the Treasury, and others in the administration, with the banks, are engaged in a cover up to keep us from knowing what went wrong?

    Black: Absolutely.

    Moyers: You are.

    Black: Absolutely, because they are scared to death. . . . What we're doing with -- no, Treasury and both administrations. The Bush administration and now the Obama administration kept secret from us what was being done with AIG. AIG was being used secretly to bail out favored banks like UBS and like Goldman Sachs. Secretary Paulson's firm, that he had come from being CEO. It got the largest amount of money. $12.9 billion. And they didn't want us to know that. And it was only Congressional pressure, and not Congressional pressure, by the way, on Geithner, but Congressional pressure on AIG.

    Where Congress said, "We will not give you a single penny more unless we know who received the money." And, you know, when he was Treasury Secretary, Paulson created a recommendation group to tell Treasury what they ought to do with AIG. And he put Goldman Sachs on it.

    Moyers: Even though Goldman Sachs had a big vested stake.

    Black: Massive stake. And even though he had just been CEO of Goldman Sachs before becoming Treasury Secretary. Now, in most stages in American history, that would be a scandal of such proportions that he wouldn't be allowed in civilized society.

    This is exactly what former IMF Chief Economist Simon Johnson warned about in his vital Atlantic article: "that the finance industry has effectively captured our government -- a state of affairs that more typically describes emerging markets, and is at the center of many emerging-market crises." This is the key passage where Johnson described the hallmark of how corrupt oligarchies that cause financial crises then attempt to deal with the fallout:

    Squeezing the oligarchs, though, is seldom the strategy of choice among emerging-market governments. Quite the contrary: at the outset of the crisis, the oligarchs are usually among the first to get extra help from the government, such as preferential access to foreign currency, or maybe a nice tax break, or—here’s a classic Kremlin bailout technique -- the assumption of private debt obligations by the government. Under duress, generosity toward old friends takes many innovative forms. Meanwhile, needing to squeeze someone, most emerging-market governments look first to ordinary working folk—at least until the riots grow too large. . . .

    As much as he campaigned against anything, Obama railed against precisely this sort of incestuous, profoundly corrupt control by narrow private interests of the Government, yet he has chosen to empower the very individuals who most embody that corruption. And the results are exactly what one would expect them to be.

    That's a lot of reading; and that's not the half of it, if you look.
    (more)
  • Lavendergrl 2009/04/07 05:21:34
    It's not true, because...
    Lavendergrl
    +3
    The logic is flawed. Often those who will ultimately work to solve the problem WERE part of the original problem to begin with. It's those who don't like being the problem who are willing to work for change. In the vin diagram all people are encased within the "problem" circle, whether they are working toward the solution or not.

    Nope, sorry. I can only see shades of gray on this one.
  • AdventPhantom .::New Holoca... 2009/04/07 05:21:16
  • SeaSparkzz AdventP... 2009/04/07 05:21:47
    SeaSparkzz
    But the ones that sit out are still part of the problem?
  • AdventP... SeaSparkzz 2009/04/07 05:29:02
  • Angellb... SeaSparkzz 2009/04/07 10:55:58
    Angellbabay
    if a woman is getting raped or a child beaten you have three options
    1. Stop it/Call for help/Intervein
    2. Assist in the action/hold them down/
    3. Walk away/Ignore it/ watch it

    option A. is an active choice you do something become part of the solution, so is option 2. you take part become part of the problem option 3. is the "sidelines" option but is it any worse watching it happen not trying to stop something bad from happening? No to watch injustice occur and do nothing to stop or prevent it is just helping...
  • The Sane One 2009/04/07 05:18:13
    It's true, because...
    The Sane One
    +2
    All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for a good man to do nothing.

    Sitting on the fence merely means you get splinters in your butt.

    And if you're in the middle of the road, you're more likely to get run over.
  • Blackteam 2009/04/07 05:12:55 (edited)
    I'm not sure...
    Blackteam
    +2
    somehow you get sucked into it no matter how small you make yourself.

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