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How will Obamacare be defeated?

Conservative in California 2010/01/05 19:16:40
it will die in conference committee
it wont have enough votes to pass in one of the houses
it will be found unconstitutional
Palin and GOP controlled Congress will repeal it in 2013
Other...
it won't be defeated or repealed
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  • Conservative in California 2010/01/05 19:18:55
    it wont have enough votes to pass in one of the houses
    Conservative in California
    +5
    My bet is that it won't have enough votes to pass the Senate as Americans pressure vulnerable Democrats not to pass the bill...short of that, a healthcare mandate is unconstiutional...failing that...it will be repealed as a disaster in 2013.

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  • john 2010/01/06 16:32:29
    it will be found unconstitutional
    john
    +1
    I believe it will pass in this comgress and senate and have to be over turned. but will be over turned.



    The future for "us seniors" is looking more grim!



    Please read this, especially the reference to pages 58 & 59




    Thomas Edwards, editor of The River Cities Tribune, was contacted to get
    legal permission to quote David Kithil's comments. Permission was
    granted, so here are excerpts from the article, giving EXACT pages and
    paragraphs in the bill and why it is so bad.

    You can forward this to all of your email contacts. I think Judge Kithil
    hits everything right on the head, and the opposition you may encounter
    cannot argue over these points:

    JUDGE KITHIL wrote:

    "I have reviewed selected sections of the bill and find it unbelievable
    that our Congress, led by Speaker Nancy Pelosi, could come up with a bill
    loaded with so many wrong-headed elements.

    We do need to reform the health insurance system in America in order to
    make coverage affordable and available to everyone. But, how many of us
    believe our federal government can manage a new program any better than
    the bankrupt Medicare program or the underfunded Social Security program?

    "Both Republicans and Democrats are equally responsible for the financial
    mess of those two programs.

    "I am opposed to HB 3200 ...































































    I believe it will pass in this comgress and senate and have to be over turned. but will be over turned.



    The future for "us seniors" is looking more grim!



    Please read this, especially the reference to pages 58 & 59




    Thomas Edwards, editor of The River Cities Tribune, was contacted to get
    legal permission to quote David Kithil's comments. Permission was
    granted, so here are excerpts from the article, giving EXACT pages and
    paragraphs in the bill and why it is so bad.

    You can forward this to all of your email contacts. I think Judge Kithil
    hits everything right on the head, and the opposition you may encounter
    cannot argue over these points:

    JUDGE KITHIL wrote:

    "I have reviewed selected sections of the bill and find it unbelievable
    that our Congress, led by Speaker Nancy Pelosi, could come up with a bill
    loaded with so many wrong-headed elements.

    We do need to reform the health insurance system in America in order to
    make coverage affordable and available to everyone. But, how many of us
    believe our federal government can manage a new program any better than
    the bankrupt Medicare program or the underfunded Social Security program?

    "Both Republicans and Democrats are equally responsible for the financial
    mess of those two programs.

    "I am opposed to HB 3200 for a number of reasons. To start with, it is
    estimated that a federal bureaucracy of more than 150,000 new employees
    will be required to administer HB3200. That is an unacceptable expansion
    of a government that is already too intrusive in our lives. If we are
    going to hire 150,000 new employees, let's put them to work protecting
    our borders, fighting the massive drug problem and putting more law
    enforcement/firefighters out there."

    NOW, here comes the good stuff:

    JUDGE KITHIL continued: "Other problems I have with this bill include:

    ** Page 50/section 152: The bill will provide insurance to all non-U.S.
    residents, even if they are here illegally.


    ** Page 58 and 59:& nbsp; The government will have real-time access to an
    individual's bank account and will have the authority to make electronic
    fund transfers from those accounts.


    ** Page 65/section 164: The plan will be subsidized (by the government)
    for all union members, union retirees and for community organizations
    (such as the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now -
    ACORN).


    ** Page 203/line 14-15: The tax imposed under this section will not be
    treated as a tax. (How could anybody in their right mind come up with
    that?)


    ** Page 241 and 253: Doctors will all be paid the same regardless of
    specialty, and the government will set all doctors' fees.


    ** Page 272. section 1145: Cancer hospital will ration care according to
    the patient's age.


    ** Page 317 and 321: The government will impose a prohibition on hospital
    expansion;however, communities may petition for an exception.


    ** Page 425, line 4-12: The government mandates advance-care planning
    consultations. Those on Social Security will be required to attend an
    "end-of-life planning" seminar every five years.


    ** Page 429, line 13-25: The government will specify which doctors can
    write an end-of-life order.


    HAD ENOUGH???? Judge Kithil then goes on:


    "Finally, it is specifically stated this bill will not apply to members
    of Congress. Members of Congress are already exempt from the Social
    Security system and have a well-funded private plan that covers their
    retirement needs. If they were on our Social Security plan, I believe
    they would find a very quick 'fix' to make the plan financially sound for
    the future."

    Honorable David Kithil
    Marble Falls , Texas
    (more)
  • Angelique ~ Pfffft! ;)~ 2010/01/06 08:50:35
    it will be found unconstitutional
    Angelique ~ Pfffft!  ;)~
    +1
    The courts will declare it unconstitutional
  • Texas Lady 2010/01/06 05:58:12 (edited)
    it will be found unconstitutional
    Texas Lady
    +1
    The methods which they want to use to fund it are robinhood like. Robinhood funding has already been (by the courts) declared unconstitutional in Texas.
  • ImageBandit ~ American Patriot 2010/01/06 03:47:09
    it will die in conference committee
    ImageBandit ~ American Patriot
    lets hope for a whimper death
  • true american 2010/01/06 03:15:45
    it will be found unconstitutional
    true american
    +2
    It is unconstitutional ,and will be abolished
  • Hellno~POTL~RWAC~FUCU 2010/01/05 23:59:17
    it wont have enough votes to pass in one of the houses
    Hellno~POTL~RWAC~FUCU
    +2
    It won't but those responsible for passing it will be.... at the polls!
  • USAF Vet Dan 2010/01/05 20:21:06
    it won't be defeated or repealed
    USAF Vet Dan
    +2
    Want REAL health care reform? Repeal the HMO Act of 1973.
  • Rover 2010/01/05 20:06:42
    Other...
    Rover
  • Steve☮END THE FED☮ 2010/01/05 19:53:34
    it will be found unconstitutional
    Steve☮END THE FED☮
    +2
    If it passes and repealed by Congress in 2013.
  • Captain Kirk~POTL 2010/01/05 19:50:23
    it will be found unconstitutional
    Captain Kirk~POTL
    +4
    I think they will get it to squeak though,but be found unconstitutional afterward!
  • Hellno~... Captain... 2010/01/05 23:58:30
    Hellno~POTL~RWAC~FUCU
    +2
    Aye captain! That's what I'm thinking/hoping too!
  • Captain... Hellno~... 2010/01/06 00:00:47
    Captain Kirk~POTL
    +2
    Great minds think alike!
  • true am... Captain... 2010/01/06 03:16:32
    true american
    +1
    Agreed
  • The Sane One 2010/01/05 19:38:39
    Other...
    The Sane One
    +1
    It's already been so watered down that it isn't real reform. It's simply writing yet another blank check to the insurance industry, thanks to the Republicans, Lieberman and Nelson.
  • Steve☮E... The San... 2010/01/05 19:54:54
    Steve☮END THE FED☮
    +2
    LMAO - The republicans are the only ones offering reform. AS if their vote even matters, they are outnumbered and have been blocked out of debate.
  • The San... Steve☮E... 2010/01/05 20:07:31
    The Sane One
    +1
    Sorry, Steve... you're wrong.

    The reforms have been offered by MANY Democrats-- and most of the reforms offered by the Republicans are acknowledged by even other Republicans as being unworkable.

    And some Republicans were PART of the committees drafting legislation-- and they were quoted as being against the very legislation they helped to draft.
  • Steve☮E... The San... 2010/01/05 20:15:15
    Steve☮END THE FED☮
    +2
    Really? That is INSANE

    The republicans have had ZERO input, and if you call "Reform" raised premium rates, Unconstitutional mandates, tax payer abortions, and rationed care you should think of relocating to Europe.

    Some republicans? You mean the 1 that was told by 0bama that he did not have time to discuss it?


  • The San... Steve☮E... 2010/01/05 22:07:25
    The Sane One
    No, I mean Chuck Grassley, who was on the committee that drafted the health care legislation, who said in a press conference that he would be voting against any legislation that came out of the committee-- before the committee even met.

    I mean Tom Coburn, who was on another committee that had input to the health care reform package.

    I mean Michael Enzy, who also was on the committee.

    I mean Gregg Judd, who was also on that committee.

    And let's not forget Orrin Hatch, who probably had the most input of ANYONE in the health care reform measure.
  • Steve☮E... The San... 2010/01/05 22:16:11
    Steve☮END THE FED☮
    +1
    Where do you come up with these things? And yes it was Grassley whose input was dismissed by 0bama. He was the only one who was included twice out of the dozens of conferences. Like the facts support - Republicans had no input.

    HE SAID HE WOULD NOT VOTE FOR ANY LEGISLATION THAT INCREASED THE DEFICIT,

    You are so lost dear- 5 Republicans who had an iota of input, had the power to change and entire bill? With a Democratic majority in in BOTH houses? Lets use a little Logic here.





  • The San... Steve☮E... 2010/01/05 22:50:27
    The Sane One
    +1
    Since you're kinda clueless here, let me let you in on a little secret.

    If you're a ranking member of a Senate Committee, you pretty much have complete say as to what is being discussed within that Committee, and you can apply a LOT of pressure to newer members of that Committee.

    And the Democratic majority applies AFTER the bill comes out of committee, when it comes up for a vote. Until then, ANY Senator can either push to have his reforms added, whether or not he's on the Committee that is drafting the legislation.

    As to where I came up with this stuff? It's part of their committee assignments, and the minutes of their committee meetings are public record.

    And for the record, Grassley did not qualify that remark by saying he wouldn't vote for legislation that increased the deficit.

    ""The simple truth is that I am and always have been opposed to the Obama Administration's plans to nationalize health care, period."

    source:
    http://www.time.com/time/poli...


  • Steve☮E... The San... 2010/01/05 23:13:06
    Steve☮END THE FED☮
    +1
    You use a far left entertainment magazine as a source, and I am clueless. Jeez this is too funny.

    Do the math

    There are 257 Democrats in the house
    just 178 Republicans

    There are 58 Democrats - with 2 left leaning independents

    Only 40 Republicans

    There is a liberal President

    What are you not able to comprehend?

    Did Nazi Pelosi ever even allow the republican plans to the floor?

    NO

    Do some REAL unbiased research or at the least use a little simple math and common sense.
  • The San... Steve☮E... 2010/01/05 23:32:02
    The Sane One
    Those numbers count only when it comes time for a vote.

    The legislation is drafted in Committees that ARE BIPARTISAN and ALL Congressmen-- Representatives AND Senators-- have input on what goes on in their committees.

    AFTER it gets through Committee-- THEN it can go up for a vote-- and THEN the Democratic majority might have an influence.

    It really DOES NOT have that much of an influence while the legislation is still in committee.
  • Steve☮E... The San... 2010/01/06 01:03:46
    Steve☮END THE FED☮
    +1
    "Those numbers count only when it comes time for a vote." Errrr YES that is what I have been saying all along.

    The ISSUE is a bill- it is their job to vote on legislation. That is what the legislative branch of government does.

    Republicans and several democrats have had 3 issues they refused to vote for.

    1) Abortion funding from tax payers
    2) Deficit increases
    3) Unconstitutional mandates

    If they wanted a republican vote they would have at least attempted to get rid of this crap in 1 of the 2 out of 20 conference that a few republicans where allowed to attend .

  • The San... Steve☮E... 2010/01/06 01:18:18
    The Sane One
    Once again, the Republicans HAD input when the bill was in committee. The bill, once it came OUT of Committee, was drastically watered down from the version sent TO the Committee. It was watered down by DINOs and Republicans, WHILE it was in committee.

    And sorry-- the Republicans in office (at least the ones in office while under the Bush administration, and re-elected to serve with the current Congress) largely voted for a whole bunch of things that raised the deficit and that were unconstitutional. The only reason they opposed most of what the Democrats were proposing is that a Democrat proposed it-- the legislations were almost identical to bills sponsored by Republicans, with only minor differences.

    Do some research on the bills put forth by the previous few Congresses-- and compare the actual legislation.

    I think you will be very surprised.
  • Steve☮E... The San... 2010/01/06 01:20:50
    Steve☮END THE FED☮
    +1
    They had NO input - cut the crap
    The two main things they supported

    1) TORT REFORM
    2) OPENING STATE TO STATE POLICIES

    Were shut down and the requests they had as to what should NOT be in the bill were also shut down.

    Watch C-Span for Christ sakes!
  • The San... Steve☮E... 2010/01/06 18:05:11
    The Sane One
    Read the minutes of the Committee meetings.

    C-Span only covers the votes and speeches made on the floor...most of which is merely posturing and has NO basis in fact.
  • Steve☮E... The San... 2010/01/07 00:19:53
    Steve☮END THE FED☮
    but 0bama said several times that there would be transparency and it would all be on C-Span- He lied? OMG!





    FYI the committee's transcripts are not posted. Probably why you failed to provide a link.
  • The San... Steve☮E... 2010/01/05 22:53:05
    The Sane One
    Also, Olympia Snowe (Republican from Maine) was another Republican who had a lot of input into the health care reform measure.
  • Steve☮E... The San... 2010/01/05 23:06:59
    Steve☮END THE FED☮
    +1
    Snowe is a RINO. She had little input, she was just open to debate- which was shut down and why she did not vote for the last house bill. DUH
  • Conserv... The San... 2010/01/05 20:26:02
    Conservative in California
    +2
    Republicans had no input whatsoever! They were banned from participating. They didn't have any input in writing of any legislation. Every amendment they offered up was voted down. They didn't vote for any of the legislation.

    Given that, what part of healthcare reform did they participate in? Voting against it?

    Why are you such a liar? The facts are out there. It's not hard to refute your lies.
  • Conserv... The San... 2010/01/05 20:04:57
    Conservative in California
    +3
    Republicans weren't allowed to participate in any of the process and were not involved in writing any of the legislation.

    Nice lie! You must be a liberal.
  • ὤTṻnde΄ӂ 2010/01/05 19:22:47
    it won't be defeated or repealed
    ὤTṻnde΄ӂ
    1. There is no formal conference committee, just two Senators and two House members who are informally working on a combined bill.
    2. The Democrats need only 51 votes to pass this in the Senate.
    3. For republicans to repeal it, it will take 60 Senators to vote for repeal.
    4. There may be some parts (not many) that will be challenged in court and then we'll see if they are constitutional or not.
  • Conserv... ὤTṻnde΄ӂ 2010/01/05 20:06:32
    Conservative in California
    +2
    Courts have absolute discretion to invalidate the entire legislation or only certain parts of it. Without the insurance mandate, what do you have left? $500 billion in taxes.
  • ὤTṻnde΄ӂ Conserv... 2010/01/05 20:12:42
    ὤTṻnde΄ӂ
    I didn't say they DIDN'T have the right to adjudicate the entire bill, but the likelihood is zero. It is more probable that certain parts MAY be found to be unconstitutional and I'm sure it will be challenged. But to think the Court could say the entire bill is unconstitutional just won't happen because there are some parts of the bill that the government definitely has the authority to regulate.
  • Conserv... ὤTṻnde΄ӂ 2010/01/05 20:27:37
    Conservative in California
    +2
    regulate, yes. Require you to buy a good or service? Nope.

    Remember the constitution was written to limit the government, not give the government unlimited power.
  • Conservative in California 2010/01/05 19:18:55
    it wont have enough votes to pass in one of the houses
    Conservative in California
    +5
    My bet is that it won't have enough votes to pass the Senate as Americans pressure vulnerable Democrats not to pass the bill...short of that, a healthcare mandate is unconstiutional...failing that...it will be repealed as a disaster in 2013.

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