How concerned are you about UN targeting our gun ownership right?

"weapons used by drug cartels comes from the Mexican military isn't supported with fact. "
Some supporting facts
MEXICO CITY — The Mexican government detained three high-ranking army generals this week, including a former second in command at the Defense Ministry, suggesting the depths to which drug cartels have gone in trying to infiltrate one of the primary forces President Felipe Calderón has counted on to combat them.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/0...

In fact, many of these weapons are getting to Mexico via the U.S. government. "Tens of thousands of firearms and explosives are sold legally through the U.S. State Department to the Mexican government. These weapons are then funneled to the traffickers and cartels by corrupt officials within the Mexico Ministry of Defense and local and state police departments."
"According to State Department documents, in 2009 Mexico bought nearly $177 million worth of American-made weapons, exceeding sales to Iraq and Afghanistan. That number includes $20 million in semi- and fully automatic weapons.
"Most of the M16s were sold legally to the Mexican government and disappeared," Kartchner added."
http://www.foxnews.com/us/201...

Some of the Weapons were supplied to the El Salvador Military and came north this is true.
The lot numbers of some of the grenades recovered,
including the grenade used in the attack on Televisa, indicate
that previously ordnance with these same lot numbers may have
been sold by the USG to the El Salvadoran military in the early
1990s via the Foreign Military Sales program.
http://wikileaks.mediapart.fr...

"75 percent of the illegal weapons that the Mexican Drug cartels get comes from sales they procure in the USA. (UNODC)"
No link was provided , so it is assumed this refers to the military weapons mentioned above . Military supplied weapons to the cartels.

"Those weapons did not come from Holder and Obama, either"
Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the Fast and Furious investigation which involves the DOJ selling about 2000 guns directly to drug cartels ?
There has been an investigation for over a year , stalled by Eric Holder and now Obama is trying to claim Executive privilege to prevent records from being revealed.
Eric Holder, Contempt of Congress, and Fast and Furious: What You Need to Know By David A. Graham
In fact, the agency managed to lose track of some 2,000 guns. Those weapons were later connected to various violent crimes. Most notably, two were found at the scene after a Border Patrol agent named Brian Terry was killed in a firefight on December 10, 2010 with suspected illegal immigrants in Arizona
http://www.theatlantic.com/po...
Obama asserts executive privilege over ‘Fast and Furious’ documents
"Mr. Issa said the president’s “untimely assertion” of executive privilege “falls short of any reason to delay today’s proceedings,” concerning the contempt citation. He also questioned why the president now was asserting executive privilege more than eight months after the documents originally were subpoenaed."
"The White House decision to invoke executive privilege implies that White House officials were either involved in the Fast and Furious operation or the cover-up that followed."
http://www.washingtontimes.co...

"Your first link shows NO evidence of guns being run by the military AT ALL."
It will take a little conjecture that tens of thousands of military weapons are missing ( second link ) and corrupt military Generals are in the pay of the cartels , then the missing guns are found in the possession of the cartels . Yeah , I know all circumstantial .

"Your second link shows that 90 percent of guns recovered from gangs are AMERICAN, but then again still doesn't point to any actual numbers about how many of them are gotten from the Mexican government."
From the second link :
"Tens of thousands of firearms and explosives are sold legally through the U.S. State Department to the Mexican government. These weapons are then funneled to the traffickers and cartels by corrupt officials within the Mexico Ministry of Defense and local and state police departments."
( as provided by the second link )

Did you expect an itemized listing with a full accounting and receipts from
corrupt officials and Drug cartels..Sorry you will not get a accurate count . Tens of thousands should give you an idea the size of the problem.

Your preposterous suggestion that Drug Cartels walk across the border due to the the Ineptitude of Obama and Nepalitano . Where upon they buy Tens of thousands of Guns , grenades, rocket launchers and then cross the border weapons in hand . Takes a bit of stretch of imagination.

I agree that Obama has failed the border situation Horribly . There are still a couple border agents left making such as scenario impossible for now. Soon that may not be the case as Obama shuts down more and more border stations .

I expected some actual percentages, you know, like what the UN has reason to state.( of course you know that the UN 75% figure was pure conjecture on the part of the UNODC? )

Put the shoe on the other foot . Demonstrate non military guns crossing the border in any Quantity .
Excluding those Obama and Holder supplied .

"you don't have any proof they went to the cartels "
"The Mexican military recently reported nearly 9,000 police weapons "missing." "One weapon - an AR-15-type semi-automatic rifle - tells the story. In 2006, this same kind of rifle - tracked by serial number - is legally sold by a U.S. manufacturer to the Mexican military.
Three years later - it's found in a criminal stash in a region wracked by Mexican drug cartel violence."
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-5...
Using the 2010 UNODC report page 129 , " A consignment of arms for the local Mexican Sinola cartel. The shipment comprised 59 assault rifles, two grenade launchers , 10 grenades and eight Kilos of TNT and nearly 20,000 rounds of ammunition " . Don't believe that came from an American Gun shop. Where could it come from ? Just guessing see above links to corrupt Mexican Generals and Military weapons that disappeared.

Evidence strongly suggest the Porous Borders allows Weapons to Brought into America from Mexico.
(Reuters) - U.S. Border Patrol agents found a rocket launcher, assault rifles and explosives in a bag along the Rio Grande river in Texas, the agency said on Wednesday, suggesting a link to Mexico's drug wars.
http://www.reuters.com/articl...
Bag of explosives found under Placentia bridge overpass
"At least six grenades were in the backpack,""Blasting caps, fuses and explosive powders were found in and around the backpack,"
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/s...
Guns, grenades, rocket launcher found hidden in Sacramento home
http://latimesblogs.latimes.c...

Blame Obama for the cartels?
Never has Obama been blamed for the Cartels. He has been blamed for clandestinely and intentionally supplying semiautomatic weapons to criminals via the DOJ . He is also responsible for the failing to make efforts to secure the border allowing drugs / thugs / diseases crossing freely. He is also responsible for attacking states taking action against illegal aliens. He is also responsible via Napalitano responsible for arming Border agents with Bean bag guns , while at the same time arming Mexican criminal gangs with semi automatic weapons . The death of a Border agent and one of the DOJ supplied weapons at the scene is what ended the illegal DOJ guns being supplied to Criminals .

"You neglect to mention that this was all done as an extension of a program run by the Bush administration. "
I gave you more credit than this. Under Bush operation wide receiver was done with the full cooperation of the Mexican government , involved radio recievers installed in the guns , with the intent of interception before the crossed the border.
Program was ended in 2007 when criminals evaded the program and guns actually crossed the border.

Completely unrelated to the 2009 Obama Administration decided to sell guns to Mexican Criminals intending for them to be delivered into Mexico. Mexican Government was not informed and interdiction by any law enforcement was blocked or ordered not to interfere.
About 2000 guns were sent to Mexico , resulting directly in the death of approximately 300 Mexicans and border agents when the program was ended due to a whistle blower.
Why Obama wanted to clandestinely supply weapons to drug cartels , is left to your conjecture.

"The amount of weapons you're quoting from the UNODC is still small in comparison to the amount of guns being recovered and traced. "
That is the report that you used for statistics of 75% of guns originated in USA.
Links have been supplied referring to 10s of thousands and situations were Grenades and weapons were tracked by serial number to the military .
Rocket launcers, grenades and military guns traced by serial number .
NO INFORMATION AT ALL concerning large amounts of civilian guns crossing the border.

"Arizona's immigration policy wasn't something that they had the right to do under the law of the constitution"
Correction , Arizona is obliged to defend the border . As is the Federal government . Failure to enforce law on a federal level does not lessen the responsibility at the state level.
State laws concerning Drugs, Criminals ( illegal immigrants are criminals by definition ) Guns , Disease , theft , vagrancy and all other state laws are applied the instant one is present in the state.

It's totally related to the 2009 Obama administration continuing to use the same program. Mexican government knew the program was active, but all prior methods to inform Mexican officials to guns that crossed the border returned no arrests or leads from the Mexican officials, so they weren't kept in the loop about every move the US made. Instead, the US kept track of what was going on. During that time, there were a handful of arrests that were made by the US, but a lot of time there was no way for Law Enforcement to make arrests, because the mexicans buying the weapons weren't breaking any laws by transporting them over state lines. Your whole argument is flawed.

The Obama administration made arrests, the Bush administration didn't make one.

The reason they can't really say how many firearms are traced right back to the gun shops is because the NRA blocked tracing of firearms back in 2003.

http://www.npr.org/2011/01/05...

One store in two years in Houston, Texas was found to have 115 of their guns recovered during crime seizures. That's what was recovered.

http://www.washingtonpost.com...

There are 12 more stores like that one listed as being the TOP 12 for trafficking to Mexico.


Arizona "Papers, Please" legislation was found to be unconstitutional. The Feds have been doing their jobs and the state tried to overstep their bounds. It's that simple.

" It's totally related to the 2009 Obama administration continuing to use the same program."
A program that was terminated two years earlier by a different administration is related to what Obama does ?
Are you suggesting a conspiracy between Obama and Bush ?

"Mexican government knew the program was active, but all prior methods to inform Mexican officials to guns that crossed the border returned no arrests or leads from the Mexican officials, so they weren't kept in the loop about every move the US made. Instead, the US kept track of what was going on."
The congressional investigation in Washington needed this information
Most shocking is your suggesting a network of agents operating in Mexico , free of Mexican government oversight .
"They weren't kept in the loop " Then these agents were intentionally withholding information. This would also suggest that Obama's agents were aware of the Murders and mayhem and watched without any effort to stop the violence.
This is indeed shocking news .

IF you can offer any support for the original comment .
LINKs ? Reports ? any Support ?


"The reason they can't really say how many firearms are traced right back to the gun shops is because the NRA blocked tracing of firearms back in 2003. "
Check your story again. ATF still traces the weapons , revealing the results to news organizations ( and drug cartels ) is what is restricted.


" One store in two years in Houston, Texas was found to have 115 of their guns recovered during crime seizures. That's what was recovered. "
With Obama's failure to secure the border , allowing a horrendous flow of thugs , drugs , bugs , diseases and illegal aliens to hemorrhage across the border . Then it comes as no surprise that some of the thugs would take guns across the border for sale and kill rivals.

The trickle of civilian guns are but a fly on an Ox when compared against the military supplied weapons. .

"Arizona "Papers, Please" legislation was found to be unconstitutional. The Feds have been doing their jobs and the state tried to overstep their bounds. It's that simple."

Constitutional ? Constitutional failure to enforce federal law. The final result is Obama Administration gets their desire of thugs , drugs , bugs,foul diseases and illegal aliens flooding across the border . The resulting Drug wars , death and destruction is a natural consequence of not closing the border.