Have you heard Ft Worth was made Just a little bit *BETTER*, thanks to a gun?

Actually, you're totally wrong in each category you addressed.

You state: "So, for every anecdotal example of a gun possibly being used to defend someone in mortal danger I'll 'guesstimate' there are 4-6 other examples of guns leading to a tragedy "

That "'guesstimate'" of course is based on what you've been *TOLD* to believe, by the media, politicians and groups that get millions of dollars every time an *UNARMED VICTIM* is slaughtered by a *CRIMINAL* with a gun, rather than actual facts.

So here's something that is NOT just baseless "'guesstimate'": For every accidental death (802), suicide (16,869) or homicide (11,348) (Unintentional Firearm Deaths, 2001, U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control) with a firearm (29,019), 13 lives (390,000) (Targeting Guns, Gary Kleck, Aldine de Gruyter, 1997) are preserved through defensive use.

Let's put the ridiculousness of your "'guesstimate'" into a better context compared to *ACTUAL FACTS*: If each of the 85 MILLION gun owners in the USA had to give you a penny each year, and each time there was a gun murder you had to give the next of kin a penny. In 2001, you would have taken in $850,000, and you would have paid out . . . $113.48.

Firearms in private hands are used an estimated 2.5 million times (or 6,849 times each day) each year to prevent crime. (Gary Kleck, Criminologist, Florida State University, 1997)

As for children dying from gun deaths, how many do you feel there are every year?
In 2007, there were only 54 accidental gun deaths for children under age 13. About 12
times as many children died from drowning during the same period. (WISQARS Injury Mortality Report, Center for Disease Control, 2007)

You state: "Because STATISTICALLY there's a whole bunch more bad stories than good stories and statistics beats anecdotal any day of the week."

No using verifiable statistics there isn't.

I'm sorry, but you're answering out of profound ignorance on this subject.

You state: "So you really believe that guns 'prevent' 390,000 murders and 2.5 million crimes a year and that it's just coincidence that the most gun happy nation on earth is also the one with the most gun violence and the highest crime rates."

First off, you're wrong about "the most gun happy nation on earth is also the one with the most gun violence and the highest crime rates."
According to the 2001 Dutch Ministry of Justice, Criminal Victimization in Seventeen Industrialized Countries, the USA is #13, behind #1 Australia, #2 England and Wales, #3 Scotland, #4 Canada, #5 Finland, #6 Poland, #7 Northern Ireland, #8 Denmark, #9 France, #10 Sweden, #11 Switzerland, and #12 Netherlands.
But why let actual facts affect you opinion, right?
Now try to use logic: How many of those acts of "gun violence and the highest crime rates" were the *ILLEGAL ACTS* of *CRIMINALS* violating existing laws?
Exactly how, do you believe, that *DISARMING* the criminals' intended victims will make the victims safer?
Now, exactly what *NEW* gun control laws, do *YOU* feel, those willing to commit rape, robbery and murder would obey? And exactly why would the *CRIMINALS*, that presently *IGNORE* the current gun control laws, would *OBEY* the *NEW* gun control laws?

You state: "Pure coincidence. You are mixing statistical sources and overstating the value of guns in self defense."

The FBI crime statistics dispute your claim.
I KNOW! Give us some verifiable statistics that support *YOUR* claims!

You state: "But lets get back to my real point - not to eliminate guns, but to make robust training (at least what a driver receives) and robust controls of who owns a gun and where that gun ends up a national priority."

It is only your abject ignorance on this subject that allows you to make such a terribly foolish statement.
As driving is *NOT* a specifically enumerated Constitutionally guaranteed Civil Right; The keeping and bearing of arms *IS* a specifically enumerated Constitutionally guaranteed Civil Right, I would be for the training you mentioned starting in middle school, and gun safety taught in elementary school.
The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that felons are *LEGALLY IMMUNE* from *ALL FORMS* of gun registration. (Haynes v. United States, 390 U.S. 85, 1968)

You state: "States where you can buy 100s of guns and sell them on street corners in adjoining states for cash and NOT have to explain how or why that happened are ridiculous."

Actually, let's look at that ridiculous claim with logic and reason, instead of only abject stupidity and ignorance.
Surely, you are not so stupid, as to believe the recipient side of a wrongful use equation will have *MORE* of the actual problem items than the *SUPPLY SIDE*. (Meaning: Areas where guns are supplied by black market have more guns, than where guns are easily acquire legally.)

Washington D.C. has had virtually a total ban on functional gun ownership since 1976 and yet *during the heart* of its gun ban, had a murder rate of 56.9 per 100,000. While at the same time, just *3 MILES* away, just across the river is Arlington, Virginia, where according to the Brady Center, laws concerning gun ownership are "extremely lax". In Arlington, Virginia, with it's lax gun control law, the murder rate was just 1.6 per 100,000, less than 3% of the Washington, D.C. rate. (Crime in the United States, FBI, 1998)

You state: "Gun Club and Gun show exclusions are ridiculous."

That would be TRUE! . . . if it weren't just a blatant *LIE*.
Proof: Name what is *LEGAL* inside a Gun Club and Gun show, that is *ILLEGAL* outside the doors of the same Gun Club and Gun show.
Hint: NOTHING! "Gun show loophole" was just a term invented in an effort to strip more Rights and Freedom from the stupid and gullible.

You state: "Control guns at least as well as you control motor vehicles and driver licenses and I'm OK with that. And, as we do with cars, we'll have accidents caused by stupid people who drink and carry a gun (the usual combination) or other accidents but at least we'll have taken some reasonable precautions. That's all I'm saying."

Driving is *NOT* a *SPECIFICALLY ENUMERATED* and *CONSTITUTIONALLY GUARANTEED* Civil Right.
But I would *LOVE* for guns to be treated like the much more lethal motor vehicles!
You only made your statement, because you have been *told* to believe that, without an ounce of intelligent thought on your own part.
I will attempt to illustrate the stupid of your statement.

If my brother gave her the money, my 4-year-old daughter could *LEGALLY* buy, *ANY KIND* of motor vehicle she wished, from *ANY DEALER* she wished. Wouldn't that be *GREAT* if guns were treated like that . . . again?!

My daughter could *LEGALLY* drive her car all that she liked *WITHOUT A LICENSE* and *WITHOUT INSURANCE*! Just not on public roadways.
Wouldn't that be *GREAT* if guns were treated like that . . . again?!

When my daughter turns 16.5-years-old, she can *LEGALLY* drive her car where she likes *ON PUBLIC ROADWAYS*! Wouldn't it be *GREAT*, and "reasonable", if she could also carry her gun wherever she could drive! . . . again?

And, God forbid it should happen, if my daughter drove drunk and killed someone: She would lose her license and could go to PRISON! . . .for a while.
After her time was served, in most States, she would be allowed to get her license back!
Wouldn't it be great if felons could get their 2nd Amendment Right back, after their time was served?! . . . again!

Boy! If that kind of *FREEDOM* and *LIBERTY* was restored to the American people, we'd see a real reduction in the violent crime we see today.