And in all fairness, there *is* something to be said for practicing with the same ammo that you'll be carrying.
FMJ:
Hollow point:
Government .. you got some splanin to do over HOLLOW POINT BULLETS if you are going to the range.. why do you need full metal jacket hollow points just to practice? Still think there is an alternative ploy???
iamnothere
2012/08/18 10:55:47
Agencies tamp down speculation over hollow-point ammo purchases
Published August 17, 2012 FoxNews.com
hollow_point_bullets.jpg
Obscure federal agencies triggered a firestorm of conspiracy theories this week after they put out orders for thousands of rounds of deadly hollow-point bullets.
But the agencies, most recently the Social Security Administration, are trying to put a damper on the speculation -- noting the ammunition is "standard issue" and simply used for mandatory federal training sessions.
"Our special agents need to be armed and trained appropriately," said a message on the official blog for Social Security's inspector general office explaining the purchases.
The bullet purchases drew widespread attention as the website Infowars.com published several stories on them that were linked off the widely read Drudge Report and other sites. Infowars.com catalogued a string of recent purchases -- first by the Department of Homeland Security, then by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and then the Social Security Administration.
The Social Security Administration solicitation, posted Aug. 7, called for 174,000 rounds of ".357 Sig 125 grain bonded jacketed hollow point pistol ammunition."
Infowars.com speculated that the purchases were being made in preparation for "civil unrest," imagining a scenario of economic collapse where seniors could cause "disorder" if denied their Social Security benefits.
But the Social Security Administration statement, posted Thursday, noted that their agents need firearms and ammo in the course of training, investigations and responding to threats against offices and employees.
"As we said in a recent post, our office has criminal investigators, or special agents, who are responsible for investigating violations of the laws that govern SSA's programs," the office said.
The agency said it has 295 special agents across 66 offices in the country. "These investigators have full law enforcement authority, including executing search warrants and making arrests," the statement said.
As for concern about the type of bullets -- hollow points, which expand upon impact -- the statement said the type is "standard issue" and is used during "mandatory quarterly firearms qualifications and other training sessions."
The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, or NOAA, found itself scrambling to respond to a similar report this week about an order for 46,000 rounds of ammo. Though the agency initially indicated it was for the National Weather Service -- leading to questions about why the National Weather Service could possibly need so many bullets -- a spokesman clarified the bullets are actually meant for the NOAA Fisheries Office of Law Enforcement. A "clerical error" resulted in the order saying the ammo was for the weather service.
Spokesman Scott Smullen said the error's been fixed in the bidding system. He, too, said the ammo is "standard issue" and will be used by 63 enforcement personnel at NOAA during qualifications and training sessions.
"NOAA officers and agents enforce the nation's ocean and fishing laws to ensure a level playing field for fishermen and to protect marine species like whales, dolphins and turtles," he said.
According to NOAA, the specialized agents are supposed to have 200 rounds in their "duty bag," and qualification and training requires another 500-600 rounds per agent.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/17/agencies-tamp-down...
Published August 17, 2012 FoxNews.com
hollow_point_bullets.jpg
Obscure federal agencies triggered a firestorm of conspiracy theories this week after they put out orders for thousands of rounds of deadly hollow-point bullets.
But the agencies, most recently the Social Security Administration, are trying to put a damper on the speculation -- noting the ammunition is "standard issue" and simply used for mandatory federal training sessions.
"Our special agents need to be armed and trained appropriately," said a message on the official blog for Social Security's inspector general office explaining the purchases.
The bullet purchases drew widespread attention as the website Infowars.com published several stories on them that were linked off the widely read Drudge Report and other sites. Infowars.com catalogued a string of recent purchases -- first by the Department of Homeland Security, then by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and then the Social Security Administration.
The Social Security Administration solicitation, posted Aug. 7, called for 174,000 rounds of ".357 Sig 125 grain bonded jacketed hollow point pistol ammunition."
Infowars.com speculated that the purchases were being made in preparation for "civil unrest," imagining a scenario of economic collapse where seniors could cause "disorder" if denied their Social Security benefits.
But the Social Security Administration statement, posted Thursday, noted that their agents need firearms and ammo in the course of training, investigations and responding to threats against offices and employees.
"As we said in a recent post, our office has criminal investigators, or special agents, who are responsible for investigating violations of the laws that govern SSA's programs," the office said.
The agency said it has 295 special agents across 66 offices in the country. "These investigators have full law enforcement authority, including executing search warrants and making arrests," the statement said.
As for concern about the type of bullets -- hollow points, which expand upon impact -- the statement said the type is "standard issue" and is used during "mandatory quarterly firearms qualifications and other training sessions."
The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, or NOAA, found itself scrambling to respond to a similar report this week about an order for 46,000 rounds of ammo. Though the agency initially indicated it was for the National Weather Service -- leading to questions about why the National Weather Service could possibly need so many bullets -- a spokesman clarified the bullets are actually meant for the NOAA Fisheries Office of Law Enforcement. A "clerical error" resulted in the order saying the ammo was for the weather service.
Spokesman Scott Smullen said the error's been fixed in the bidding system. He, too, said the ammo is "standard issue" and will be used by 63 enforcement personnel at NOAA during qualifications and training sessions.
"NOAA officers and agents enforce the nation's ocean and fishing laws to ensure a level playing field for fishermen and to protect marine species like whales, dolphins and turtles," he said.
According to NOAA, the specialized agents are supposed to have 200 rounds in their "duty bag," and qualification and training requires another 500-600 rounds per agent.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/17/agencies-tamp-down...
Top Opinion
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RJ~PWCM~JLA 2012/08/18 12:05:53
+3Actually - FMJ and hollow point are two different types of ammo. FMJ means there is no "hollow point" - the entire bullet is encased.
And in all fairness, there *is* something to be said for practicing with the same ammo that you'll be carrying.
FMJ:
Hollow point:
http://www.criminal-justice-m...
I can say also that .40 S&W; pistols can be temperamental about cycling with hollow points or some specific brands or types of hollow points. Regular practice with duty ammo can uncover any reliability problems.
Heavier bullets than economy range ammo and the accompanying loads also give a true recoil experience and readiness for a follow on shot.
Why Hollowpoints?
Because you DON'T train with different ammunition than what you carry on duty.
Every different type of ammunition behaves differently.
So if you're going to be carrying hollowpoints in your duty weapon, you need to train with that same ammunition while you are on the range. This ensurese that you, the shooter are familiar with how that ammunition behaves when you fire it.
The last thing you want, is to be in a life or death situation, and not realize that you have to adjust your aim because you have spent your range time qualifying with wadcutters, or hardball ammunition, and now you have semi-jacketed hollowpoints.....that you haven't fired.
There is a saying in the military:
"You train as you fight"
You wear the same equipment, you carry the same weapon, and you fire the same ammunition from that weapon that you will be firing in a combat situation.
Then there's the whole conspiracy nutball panty knot.....
AGAIN, it's right near the end of the fiscal year.
At this time, every agency from your local city Police, to the Feds, to the Military are using up whatever surplus budget they have.
Why are they doing this?
Because they have to if they want to maintain their budget level for t...
Why Hollowpoints?
Because you DON'T train with different ammunition than what you carry on duty.
Every different type of ammunition behaves differently.
So if you're going to be carrying hollowpoints in your duty weapon, you need to train with that same ammunition while you are on the range. This ensurese that you, the shooter are familiar with how that ammunition behaves when you fire it.
The last thing you want, is to be in a life or death situation, and not realize that you have to adjust your aim because you have spent your range time qualifying with wadcutters, or hardball ammunition, and now you have semi-jacketed hollowpoints.....that you haven't fired.
There is a saying in the military:
"You train as you fight"
You wear the same equipment, you carry the same weapon, and you fire the same ammunition from that weapon that you will be firing in a combat situation.
Then there's the whole conspiracy nutball panty knot.....
AGAIN, it's right near the end of the fiscal year.
At this time, every agency from your local city Police, to the Feds, to the Military are using up whatever surplus budget they have.
Why are they doing this?
Because they have to if they want to maintain their budget level for the following fiscal year. So in such agencies that have armed personnel, it's a PERFECT time to buy more training ammo (and post-it notes). You can buy that up, and get more to train your people with without taking a bite of next years ammo budget, AND you maintain budget continuity for the following fiscal year without having a stockroom filled with copier toner that will take all friggin year to use up.
See, in these budget concious times, not only is the money you have counted against you at the end of the fiscal year, so are the unused recources that you have bought but haven't really put a dent in. In short, if you bought it, you'd better be USING it. Ammunition fits the bill as the perfect expendable item. You buy it, and you use it up and you can do so with justification. You DO want your Law Enforcement officers and agents proficient with their weapons, don't you?
This is a constant folks....
This happens each year, EVERY year, no matter who's in the White House, no matter who's in control of the Senate. And if it wasn't sinister a decade ago, it isn't sinister now, no matter what the "patriotic" (anti-government) blog writers are insinuating.
So relax.
It's an explanation.
And no, you don't have to believe it.......but when these agencies don't come battering down your door to kick your wife and impregnate your dog while confiscating your Suburban so you can be forced to drive a prius as some desperately want you to believe, you're going to have to wonder why.......then you may feel free to refer back to my post.
And YES, even the national weather service, and the social security administration have their law enforcement and or security personnel.
Here's a real shocker for ya, so does the dept of education....
Guess what, they buy ammunition too.
But you go ahead and make it a politicical issue.....feel free.
and there are no dept of education employees in schools.. that is local
yes there are a lot of schools where they need security.. because the children are treated like inmates
And let's be sure to remember to blame them again when one of those little thugs brutally attacks another student or a teacher.
I'm sure if you think out the angles well enough, you can find a way to hold the school responsible for just about everything but graduating students.
Some of these schools are real war zones.. I dont dispute you..
What I am saying is the Dept of ED has no need..
Those personnel are armed, and thus are going to need and use ammunition.
Deal with it.
Their primary function is to conduct investigations and raids in connection with student loan defaults and FRAUD.....
Or did you prefer such things go left unanswered?......Maybe you thought as the dept of education they should be restricted to carrying rulers to whack offenders on the knuckles with?....
When did you join the gestapo??? most of your comments have a thread of reality.. this one just shows you are a nazi in US military garb
I just want those who carry weapons for a living, well trained in their use.....Your "jobs etc" comments are just your way of compensating for the fact that I know what I'm talking about, and rather than admit that you want to try and make the situation into an argument where you can place political blame.
Sorry, but those officers have been around since well before the current administration.
Nice try at obfuscation though, I like the whole "gestapo" angle.
There isn't a rifle or pistol range on any post that dosn't have some unit cycling through for their periodic requalifications.
Each day, every day.
And this blog really wanted to explain what is doing with the national weather service or the Ss admin
Military is not the same entity.. as I said they actually do shoot weapons for a living.
I am still waiting for you to show me where anyone from these two federal agencies have used their weapons..
I can understand treasury.. I can understand homeland insecurity and its myriad agencies.. or the DOJ with the FBI or ATF..
there are a lot of cashes of ammo.. and no one really using it.. Makes one actually pause and say Splane me why.. so far you have danced around and around the mulberry bush..
No answers just making yourself sound like an administration sock puppet.. (though I am fully aware that you are far from that)
"I am still waiting for you to show me where anyone from these two federal agencies have used their weapons.. "
Was a body-count needed for justification?? MOST officers in your local police have NEVER pulled their weapon on duty......Would you question their ammunition purchases because of that??
BTW, most FBI agents have never pulled their weapons let alone shot at anyone with them either.....but that's hunky-dory??
Frankly such people are they very ones, who would most benefit from the training.
I got some news for you. The fully badged agents of the agencies in question have full arrest and investigative authority over violations of the laws that is governed by the agencies thay work for......
They ARE Law Enforcement officers.
The biggest problem I see from you, is the fact you didn't know they existed as such.
They fact that you now know, SHOULD be condusive to doing a little homework......not sitting around playing the "I don't like the current administration, so I will happily imagine the worst about the whole government because a democrat is running it...
"I am still waiting for you to show me where anyone from these two federal agencies have used their weapons.. "
Was a body-count needed for justification?? MOST officers in your local police have NEVER pulled their weapon on duty......Would you question their ammunition purchases because of that??
BTW, most FBI agents have never pulled their weapons let alone shot at anyone with them either.....but that's hunky-dory??
Frankly such people are they very ones, who would most benefit from the training.
I got some news for you. The fully badged agents of the agencies in question have full arrest and investigative authority over violations of the laws that is governed by the agencies thay work for......
They ARE Law Enforcement officers.
The biggest problem I see from you, is the fact you didn't know they existed as such.
They fact that you now know, SHOULD be condusive to doing a little homework......not sitting around playing the "I don't like the current administration, so I will happily imagine the worst about the whole government because a democrat is running it" game.
These agencies, and their LE personnel have existed for MANY presidential administrations.....as have their ammunition issue, and their weapons, and none of it was sinister then......and neither is it now.
some areas need more.. some need less.. like the communities where so many killings are going on
And "If you're too blind to see it, I'm not going to help you!"....is NOT a legitimate response when someone asks you to support you own argument.
I'm all ears.
I am not blind. dumb or stupid..
you on the other hand are a mercenary .. who is into death and destruction.. that is your stock and trade..
So I would expect you to be fully knowlegable about guns ammo and the need for DOMESTIC purchases by our benevolent government who pays you for your volunteer participation killing people in afghanistan who desire to kill you in return