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German court rules religious circumcision on boys an assault. Agree or Disagree?

ServantOfAllah 2012/06/27 02:21:41
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Circumcising young boys on religious grounds amounts to grievous bodily harm, a German court ruled Tuesday in a landmark decision.
The regional court in Cologne, western Germany, ruled that the "fundamental right of the child to bodily integrity outweighed the fundamental rights of the parents", a judgement that is expected to set a legal precedent.
German court rules religious circumcision on boys an assault. Agree or Disagree?

Read More: http://news.yahoo.com/german-court-outlaws-religio...

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  • Walt MkB 2012/06/27 22:50:51
    Walt
    +2
    Considering who responded and how they responded, I would have to agree with you for no other reason, but you do make a good point.
  • Robbb MkB 2012/07/14 06:58:31
    Robbb
    I would be inclined to say pro Semitic as at present the circumcision rate among Germans is 1% and the rate among German Jews is about 32%. No doubt the rate among Muslims is far higher. However If a Muslim is not circumcised it has no effect on his standing as a Muslim. The 68% of Jews that don’t genital mutilate their kids are of the same opinion about their religious status. I say pro Semitic because the German courts are protecting these children from an unnecessary assault or arguably sexual assault. (mutilation) of their body’s. Remember it is not illegal to be circumcised in Germany if you go to a doctor or mohel and have it done as a properly informed adult.
  • caius madison 2012/06/27 07:27:48
    Disagree
    caius madison
    +7
    Men are better off without forskin anuway because of cleanliness. It is unnecessary and dirty no matter how well you claim to keep it according to medical journals.
  • Robbb caius m... 2012/06/27 09:58:05
    Robbb
    +4
    What medical journals?

    Circumcision is Not Good Health Policy

    A cost-utility analysis, based on published data from multiple observational studies, comparing boys circumcised at birth and those not circumcised was undertaken using the Quality of Well-being Scale, a Markov analysis, the standard reference case, and a societal perspective. Neonatal circumcision increased incremental costs by $828.42 per patient and resulted in an incremental 15.30 well-years lost per 1000 males. If neonatal circumcision was cost-free, pain-free, and had no immediate complications, it was still more costly than not circumcising. Using sensitivity analysis, it was impossible to arrange a scenario that made neonatal circumcision cost-effective. Neonatal circumcision is not good health policy, and support for it as a medical procedure cannot be justified financially or medically.
    Van Howe, R., “A Cost-Utility Analysis of Neonatal Circumcision,” Medical Decision Making 24 (2004):584-601.Pain, Trauma, Sexual, and Psychological Effects of Circumcision

    Infant male circumcision continues despite growing questions about its medical justification. As usually performed without analgesia or anaesthetic, circumcision is observably painful. It is likely that genital cutting has physical, sexual and psychological c...
    What medical journals?

    Circumcision is Not Good Health Policy

    A cost-utility analysis, based on published data from multiple observational studies, comparing boys circumcised at birth and those not circumcised was undertaken using the Quality of Well-being Scale, a Markov analysis, the standard reference case, and a societal perspective. Neonatal circumcision increased incremental costs by $828.42 per patient and resulted in an incremental 15.30 well-years lost per 1000 males. If neonatal circumcision was cost-free, pain-free, and had no immediate complications, it was still more costly than not circumcising. Using sensitivity analysis, it was impossible to arrange a scenario that made neonatal circumcision cost-effective. Neonatal circumcision is not good health policy, and support for it as a medical procedure cannot be justified financially or medically.
    Van Howe, R., “A Cost-Utility Analysis of Neonatal Circumcision,” Medical Decision Making 24 (2004):584-601.Pain, Trauma, Sexual, and Psychological Effects of Circumcision

    Infant male circumcision continues despite growing questions about its medical justification. As usually performed without analgesia or anaesthetic, circumcision is observably painful. It is likely that genital cutting has physical, sexual and psychological consequences, too. Some studies link involuntary male circumcision with a range of negative emotions and even post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). Some circumcised men have described their current feelings in the language of violation, torture, mutilation and sexual assault. In view of the acute as well as long-term risks from circumcision and the legal liabilities that might arise, it is timely for health professionals and scientists to re-examine the evidence on this issue and participate in the debate about the advisability of this surgical procedure on unconsenting minors.
    Boyle G. et al., "Male Circumcision: Pain, Trauma and Psychosexual Sequelae," Journal of Health Psychology (2002): 329-343.
    (more)
  • caius m... Robbb 2012/06/27 18:44:39
    caius madison
    +1
    Really? A man who was circumsized at birth, before they have formative memory causes PTSD? I suppose the Easter bunny is real too? I have read those studies, the control is none and it is a speculative study. Cost is never a reason to factor against health, you pay for a better life in every sense, so why not health?
  • Robbb caius m... 2012/06/27 20:15:07
    Robbb
    +1
    You sound like a highly experienced person in these maters. so where does myour idea come from that a human baby has the mind of a gold fish. Cost was an indicator that a child who has been mutilated is more likely to develop problems. As it is about 20% of a urologist job is fixing the handiwork of butchers that play with infants penises. Neither I nor my family seem ever to have required the benefit of MGM and are still doing just fine. In any case there is nothing speculative about the fact that Circumcision is physical mutilation and that is what is being discussed. Nature through evolution has a tendency to develop a the bodies systems for the best outcome and all mammals have a prepuce for obvious reasons.
  • caius m... Robbb 2012/07/02 19:13:57
    caius madison
    I sound highly experienced? Your the one quoting studies that where not well received by their peers and in general where felt to be highly subjective. I can tell you that my circumcision at birth did nothing to destroy my trust in people or cased any pain during sex, has not caused ptsd in anyone I have ever met as these studies where discussed in my high school come to mention it and where found by opinion in the class(all reported being circumsized) to be entirely inaccurate for them.
  • Robbb caius m... 2012/07/02 20:46:53
    Robbb
    +1
    Neither did it kill you. Never the less it does kill children and urologists and psychologist good business caring for botch ups. Which no one has the right to make on behalf of a child that did not give its permission? You mentioned that none of the boys in school ever said they had a problem with it. How would they know? They don’t have it. The way to find out about things is to study them and the more you study then the more you find out. That is what you are doing in school is it not. The interesting thing about post traumatic stress syndrome is that you don’t have to know you are suffering from its effects. They are talking about should it be legal to cut a piece of a child never mind what piece that is healthy and does not require treatment. There are thousands of men that resent having their foreskin cut of and no doubt they agree with me. I have intact and therefore properly working genitals I know what the prepuce deos and believe me I would rather have a finger cut of.
  • Monty Robbb 2012/07/09 04:26:15
    Monty
    what in the world are you talking about?
  • Robbb Monty 2012/07/09 10:53:57
    Robbb
    In relation to what particular aspect of Male genital mutilation.
  • ««Ginge... caius m... 2012/06/27 12:47:16
    ««Gingey, the Master Debater of Þ|-|Дэ†»»
    +6
    Cleanliness? How damn hard is it to wash a piece of skin??
  • caius m... ««Ginge... 2012/06/27 18:47:28
    caius madison
    Ever pass out after sex? As in directly after? I rest my case.
  • ««Ginge... caius m... 2012/06/27 18:48:48
    ««Gingey, the Master Debater of Þ|-|Дэ†»»
    +1
    What does that have to do with it?
  • caius m... ««Ginge... 2012/06/27 19:12:00
    caius madison
    Life is not as simple as get in shower, wash, goot to work, come home, sleep, repeat. There are instances in life when you cannot gwt to a shower, as in camping, outdoor concerts, being stranded(emergency only), these can happen and if circumcised then you WILL be more clean than if not.
  • ««Ginge... caius m... 2012/06/27 19:17:51
    ««Gingey, the Master Debater of Þ|-|Дэ†»»
    +3
    So if it gets dirty, wash it when you have access to a shower. Why does this seem so difficult? If they get an infection (which is statistically insignificant) they can take antibiotics. There's no need to amputate the skin. Plus it makes the penis less sensitive during sex. Also, the foreskin makes sex more pleasurable for women. Ever wonder why American women love European men? Lol
  • caius m... ««Ginge... 2012/07/02 19:08:46
    caius madison
    The last few statements are not fact. It's purely preference on the with without forskin thing. Many women here in the United States will not touch one that is uncircumsized due to it looking weird compared to overwhelming percentile of circumsized over here. European men have the same chance with out native women as we do with theirs, it's the foreign "exotic" appeal, not your hooded member doing that.
  • ««Ginge... caius m... 2012/07/02 19:25:38
    ««Gingey, the Master Debater of Þ|-|Дэ†»»
    +1
    Well today most boys are left intact, so soon women will find circumcised penises to be weird. And it does make sex much more pleasurable for both.
  • Monty ««Ginge... 2012/07/09 04:23:01
    Monty
    since when are they left intact?
  • ««Ginge... Monty 2012/07/09 04:35:47
    ««Gingey, the Master Debater of Þ|-|Дэ†»»
    Since forever
  • NoHandl... caius m... 2012/06/29 07:08:53
    NoHandlebarsAttached
    +1
    Clean it when you wake up, stupid.
  • caius m... NoHandl... 2012/07/02 19:03:02
    caius madison
    +1
    My point was, stupid, that it is less cleasely to have it uncircumcised when showers are going to be out of the question for day, like when you goe to some of the concerts I go to. Clearly, having a flap of skin catching those last few drops of urine, and getting sweaty for day solid will be less clean than a penis without. I really don't see how anyone can argue this point with me. It's gradeschool health studies to me. From what I understand, the forskon is more pleaurable for women, but most find it unattractive and don't wanna touch it over here in America.
  • Monty caius m... 2012/07/09 04:22:27
    Monty
    yeah!
  • Robbb caius m... 2012/07/09 10:56:47
    Robbb
    No I have never passed out after sex. Just what is it that makes a person pass out after sex? And what bearing does that have on this anyway?
  • irish -... caius m... 2012/06/27 13:14:49
    irish -liberty or death!
    +3
    wrong.
  • caius m... irish -... 2012/06/27 18:39:54
    caius madison
    how, the hood of the penis wil trap urine, as well as hold fluids, that can lead to infections of the penis. It is in journals, as in sex study journals, and was a common practice in the eighties. In fact, the only way they didn't circumsize a baby was if the parents said no or stated certain religious standpoints. It also increases risk of std infections because people who have sex then pass out DIDN'T wash that piece of skin, thus it festers in the hood as well as on the outside, however the penal opening is in contact with a concentrated pocket of infected fluids.
  • ««Ginge... caius m... 2012/06/27 19:18:15
    ««Gingey, the Master Debater of Þ|-|Дэ†»»
    +2
    Urine is sterile. /argument.
  • caius m... ««Ginge... 2012/07/02 19:37:02
    caius madison
    Alone it is, mixing with sweat, not so much.
  • Robbb caius m... 2012/07/09 11:07:36
    Robbb
    What are you on? Sweat is the same as urine it is exuded from the body via the blood stream everything that come from the blood stream is sterilised just like urine is. You have no idea what you are talking about do you. I love that one Passed out LOL. It’s original. I am surprised that more then 80% of the world’s men are still able to pee standing up after what you have told me.
  • irish -... caius m... 2012/06/28 12:06:43
    irish -liberty or death!
    +3
    aww,and you fall for that ,right? gee,i wonder how man managed to survive for centuries. with the lies you believe they should have all been dead.
    when will people realize that medicine always makes claims to justify what it does? and people think that because it came from a "doctor" that it is always right?
  • caius m... irish -... 2012/07/02 19:17:55
    caius madison
    No, not dead, but the instance of uncircumcized passing yeast infections and even causing them is higher.
  • irish -... caius m... 2012/07/03 12:44:10
    irish -liberty or death!
    +1
    wrong again,that is a medical myth.
  • Robbb irish -... 2012/07/09 11:11:31
  • irish -... Robbb 2012/07/09 12:16:38
    irish -liberty or death!
    +1
    wrong again. if a male has a yeast infection he most likely got it from a woman. the penis is exposed to air and the bacteria can't live in the air.
  • Robbb irish -... 2012/07/09 19:42:24
    Robbb
    That is true, but the intact penis is more likely than the mutilated penis is to carry a yeast infection because it gives it an environment where it can survive. Yeast infections by the way are not bacterial infections. Yeast is a fungus.
  • irish -... Robbb 2012/07/09 22:09:24
    irish -liberty or death!
    +1
    no kidding on the fungus. the intact penis actually isn't . the fungi die in the air.
  • Robbb irish -... 2012/07/10 08:43:40
    Robbb
    +1
    I understand that but what can happen is If a woman for example gets a yeast infection she can infect an intact man and he will reinfect her until they are both treated, I know because it has happened to me and my wife. And I shower regularly. Never the less Ripping out my foreskin would be the furthest thing from my mind to prevent this from having happened to me once. I think the treatment is a lot less traumatic thank you very much.
  • irish -... Robbb 2012/07/10 10:46:53
    irish -liberty or death!
    +2
    i agree.
  • lurx: the soda jerk 2012/06/27 07:03:41 (edited)
    Agree
    lurx: the soda jerk
    +14
    Why should we view genital mutilation differently if it is done on boys?
  • Servant... lurx: t... 2012/06/27 10:45:23
    ServantOfAllah
    +8
    I agree 100% Circumcision is just wrong.
  • Monty Servant... 2012/07/09 04:20:55
    Monty
    it is not

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