George Zimmerman Charged With Second-Degree Murder: Fair or Foul?
SodaHead News
2012/04/12 13:00:00
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It took prosecutors a month and a half to charge George Zimmerman in the shooting of Trayvon Martin, but Florida special prosecutor Angela Corey announced the charge on Wednesday, just days after dismissing the grand jury. He's being charged with second-degree murder, and could face life in prison. This doesn't mean he's guilty, but it does mean he's in prison for the time being.
Zimmerman arrived at the Polk Correctional Facility in Florida Wednesday night after the 28-year-old surrendered to law enforcement. Lawyers on both sides of the case anticipate a long and arduous trial. Zimmerman's new lawyers says he is "not concerned about [Zimmerman's] mental well-being" and expects "justice in the end." Martin's mother just wants to "ask him if there were another way that he could have settled the confrontation." Do you think the charges against George Zimmerman sound fair -- or foul?
Zimmerman arrived at the Polk Correctional Facility in Florida Wednesday night after the 28-year-old surrendered to law enforcement. Lawyers on both sides of the case anticipate a long and arduous trial. Zimmerman's new lawyers says he is "not concerned about [Zimmerman's] mental well-being" and expects "justice in the end." Martin's mother just wants to "ask him if there were another way that he could have settled the confrontation." Do you think the charges against George Zimmerman sound fair -- or foul?
Top Opinion
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Foul
+66Prosecutor will have to get all twelve jurors to vote to convict to get this silly murder charge upheld. She knows that is hopeless. The charge carries some lesser homicide charges as "included lesser charges" (like manslaughter) which they can compromise on. The hope would be that by asking for murder 2, they can get Zimmerman to agree to accept something like negligent homicide. If he does, he is being gullible, for they can never get twelve Floridians to agree he is culpable. Even if they get an all black jury, getting twelve of us to agree he did not have the right to defend himself just because his attacker is black would be very unlikely. Too many of us have had family or friends who have been attacked by young men like Trayvon. Having worked with victims of abuse for many years, my sympathy for the victim of the attack (Zimmerman) far outweighs my identification as a Florida black.
Regardless, at no time is Zimmerman chasing or pursuing Martin, rather attempting to maintain a visual which he is unable to accomplish.
The 911 operator clearly did not want him to follow for any reason. He should not have been following Martin. He admitted he was. Plus, the testimony of Martin's friend who was on the phone, who Marting told, "there is some guy following me." So since, Zimmerman, the 911 tape, and Martin's friend all say Zimmerman was following Martin, I really don't see much of a chance that he was not following Martin.
The 'girlfriends' claims about the phone conversation is BS.
Zimmerman's call begins at 7:09:34 and Martin takes off running at 7:11:40 which is 20 seconds PRIOR to the earliest possible time the T-Mobile call could have been connected.
There records show 7:12, and is rounded down to the whole minute which means anywhere from 7:12:00 to 7:12:59.
Her claim that the conversation included whether or not to walk fast or run doesn't make sense because he already had done so 20-80 seconds before.
Her story came out two weeks after the incident and after she had heard news reports, had spoken with attorney Ben Crump and Martin's family members.
She makes statements regarding details she couldn't have possibly known unless she was standing right there as an eye-witness to the events as they happened.
Crump immediately contacted Al Sharpton and they collectively tried to tunr this into a case of racially motivated profiling and cold blooded murder, which Sharpton was more than happy to blurt out on his MSNBC program when he wasn't on a bull-horn in Sanford.
Zimmerman is an adult, Martin is a teenager. ZImmerman had a gun, Martin was walking around with a snack. You can't blame Martin for this.
You may want to also consider that the t-mobile clock and the 911 clock were not exactly synched. You may want to also consider that since Zimmerman could not see Martin, he may have run to a place to hide. Or he may have run a little and then walked. You don't know what he was doing and you can't count on Zimmerman to tell the truth -- he is accused of murder.
Teenage girls are prone to drama, but the tape of Martin screaming is pretty clear. The fact that he is dead of a gunshot wound from Zimmerman's gun is pretty clear. The fact that he was unarmed is agreed. The fact that Zimmerman has not displayed any injuries, other than putting on bandages is clear -- police saw no injuries, and he was photographed and filmed. Zimmerman's story is illogical. While I think he probably believes he was doing the right thing -- asking a kid he didn't know what he was doing in the neighborhood -- what he did was irresponsible. He carried a gun, followed someone, and ended up (whether Martin confronted him or he confronted Martin) shooting a kid that was doing nothing wrong. ZImmerman caused this death whether the jury decides it's murder or not.
Zimmerman is a 5'9" - 28 year old adult and Martin is a 6'-3" - high school junior on the football team. He obviously had the upper hand no matter how hard the media tries to paint him as a helpless child.
The ONLY reason Zimmerman's 9mm comes into play was that his head was being bounced off the sidewalk and NOBODY was responding to HIS yells for help.
Officer Smith (first responder) indicates on his police report that Zimmerman was bleeding from his nose, back of head, his back was wet and covered with grass indicating he had been lying on his back. Those are his exact words on the report. He also says that after securing Zimmerman, he was placed in his patrol vehicle where he was given first aid by paramedics at the scene.
You can chose to believe the media lies and hype, but all evidence, including audio...
Zimmerman is a 5'9" - 28 year old adult and Martin is a 6'-3" - high school junior on the football team. He obviously had the upper hand no matter how hard the media tries to paint him as a helpless child.
The ONLY reason Zimmerman's 9mm comes into play was that his head was being bounced off the sidewalk and NOBODY was responding to HIS yells for help.
Officer Smith (first responder) indicates on his police report that Zimmerman was bleeding from his nose, back of head, his back was wet and covered with grass indicating he had been lying on his back. Those are his exact words on the report. He also says that after securing Zimmerman, he was placed in his patrol vehicle where he was given first aid by paramedics at the scene.
You can chose to believe the media lies and hype, but all evidence, including audio and eye witness statements back up Zimmerman's recollection of events and his case has become even stronger during the course of the investigation which began at 7:30 that evening when it was turned over to detectives and the medical examiners office,.
IF and I stress IF, this even makes it to a trial, DeeDee's story will get ripped apart and the lies exposed. Fact is, Martin was pissed that Zimmerman was on the phone and heard the conversation he was having with dispatch. He approached Zimmerman, instigated the confrontation and attacked him. Zimmerman waited for at least 45 seconds before retrieving his weapon and firing in self defense.
He will NEVER be convicted of any crime whatsoever, because Martin was the ONLY one who violated any laws that evening.
On the timing, it could have been a minute different between the two systems. You have no way of knowing.
And as I said, even if Zimmerman is found technically within the law, he is still at fault for being a dumbass. This incident is proof that not everybody should be walking around with a gun. (While I think it is everyone's right, I dont' think it's a good idea for everyone.)
Fact is, he had played football continuaously since he was 5 and obviously in a lot better shape and stronger than Zimmerman is.
So, his football career gave way to his gang-bangin' ways? His loss.
You haven't heard from any of the people you name because their goal has been accomplished -- an arrest and charge. And a heavy charge at that, not just a little "You were naughty" slap.
sounds like you and she have a great deal in common, except she knew trayvon martin, was his girlfriend [what's with the quotes? you don't believe that she was? on what do you base that suspicion, o master detective?], and suffered a grotesque and unnecessary bereavement. al sharpton didn't have to turn this into anything it already wasn't--a racially profiled, cold-blooded murder.
You should take a leaf from trayvon martin's parents--two people who could have behaved like you do, and with actual justification, since their little boy was murdered, but who have instead conducted themselves with the utmost dignity and grace, and asking only for justice.
You think about Trayvon Martin's mother tonight--if you can bear to.
Zimmerman was doing nothing more than maintaining a visual which is backed up with audio.
Juries often reach the best decision for the weirdest reasons. I'll wait.
However, it's like you tell teenagers: if you aren't actively trying not to get pregnant when you have sex, you are trying to get pregnant. With Zimmerman, if you aren't trying not to avoid a gun fight by leaving the gun at home, then you will eventually end up in a gun fight.
I don't think that the problem here is all about race. Its about a neighborhood watch person who views himself as real law enforcement -- with a gun. Neighborhood watch is pretty straightforward. You watch the neighborhood and report suspicious or dangerous things. This should have ended with the 911 call. Even the neighborhood watch association said that it had a rule against carrying weapons while on duty, so Zimmerman was out of line. While I am all for neighbors being involved, and would accept a neighbor calling me to tell on my kid, or even intervening to stop kids from doing harmful/destructive/stupid things, I would not accept knowing there was some idiot wandering around in my neighborhood with a gun. Zimmerman, as an adult, should have defused the s...
However, it's like you tell teenagers: if you aren't actively trying not to get pregnant when you have sex, you are trying to get pregnant. With Zimmerman, if you aren't trying not to avoid a gun fight by leaving the gun at home, then you will eventually end up in a gun fight.
I don't think that the problem here is all about race. Its about a neighborhood watch person who views himself as real law enforcement -- with a gun. Neighborhood watch is pretty straightforward. You watch the neighborhood and report suspicious or dangerous things. This should have ended with the 911 call. Even the neighborhood watch association said that it had a rule against carrying weapons while on duty, so Zimmerman was out of line. While I am all for neighbors being involved, and would accept a neighbor calling me to tell on my kid, or even intervening to stop kids from doing harmful/destructive/stupid things, I would not accept knowing there was some idiot wandering around in my neighborhood with a gun. Zimmerman, as an adult, should have defused the situation before it got to the point of violence. He could simply have asked the kid if he lived nearby, and would soon have understood that he had a reason to be there. He should also have told Martin that he had a gun. Even if Martin started the fight (which I personally think is unlikely), he probably would not have if he thought Zimmerman had a gun. ZImmerman is clearly wrong here either way. Even if he is clearly of second degree murder, he should be charged with endangerment or something. Too bad you can't put people in jail for being a dumbass.
He wasn't 'on duty', rather leaving his house to run an errand and observed Martin between the condos while driving towards the front gate.
He has a legal license to carry, and was, which is what people do who when they venture out in public. THAT, is the whole purpose of having a concealed weapons permit.
Up until the point Marin takes off running, all Zimmerman had done was drive down the street, park and make a phone call, he didn't make any provoking actions whatsoever.
If Martin was in fact, just walking back to the condo, why does 5 minutes and 16 seconds go by between the time he takes off running and the gunshot?
The condo was less than 100 yards away which a high school football player should have easily covered in less than 20 seconds on a jog.
Fact is, Martin is the one who approached Zimmerman, made first contact, and later attacks him in an unprovoked assault.
It really doesn't matter what Martin was doing. If Zimmerman had not gotten out of his car and followed him (which he most certainly did if you believe his own recorded words), none of this would have happened. Martin was not armed. If Zimmerman has been responsible and told him he was armed, it is unlikely Martin would have attacked him.
Why would Martin have jogged all the way home? He was holding a drink (iced tea) and candy. Plus he was chatting on the phone with his girl friend. Kids hang out. It's what they do. I think we have to let the jury decide, but there really is no question whether this would have happened if Zimmerman had stayed in his car, or if Zimmerman had called 911 and not followed the boy further, or if Zimmerman didn't feel so paranoid that he has to carry a gun to run errands, or if Zimmerman had acted responsibly.
Zimmerman's gun doesn't even come into the picture until AFTER Martin has him on his back beating him for at least 45 seconds which is caught on the audio tape.
One eye witness walks by them, tells Martin to stop, and that he is calling 911, which he does after going inside his house through the rear patio slider.
Doesn't matter if Martin was sprinting, jogging, walking or crawling..... over 5 minutes expire which is enough time to walk the entire perimeter of the complex.
He could have walked heel-to-toe and been to the condo in that time, carrying a case of ice tea, 40 lbs of Sklittles and talking on the phone.
As you say, it doesn't matter what Martin was doing. He could have been hiding, going a longer way to get away, or just sitting. He was unarmed and being followed by an adult stranger.
He should have just kept Skittlin' down the road and the worst case scenario would have been - police show up, nobody knows where or who he is, they chat with Zimmerman, fill out a contact card and leave.
Zimmerman got Martin shot, because if he hadn't been carrying a gun and following the kid, none of it would have happened.
Even if Martin attacked Zimmerman, what about your beloved "stand your ground" law? If Martin felt threatened by the creepy man following him, he was within his right to defend himself.
If Martin had just stayed in his car instead of trying to keep following the kid, none of it would have happened. If Martin hadn't thought, "gee it's a great idea to carry a concealed weapon and risk confronting unknown strangers in the dark," none of it would have happened. If he would have thought, "I should warn this guy that I have a gun so this fight will end" then it wouldn't have happened. Maybe he should have just kept moving on down the road, since it was his interference with a person who was not doing anything wrong that caused the whole problem.
I don't get it. You are willing to give the armed killer a total pass and you won't give the kid the benefit of the doubt at all.
Zimmerman could have walked 6 feet directly behind Martin and called him every name in the book and that STILL would not meet the criteria.
The rest of your babbling on is just that, incomprehensible BS that has no legal standing whatsoever and completely ignores evidence and two eye-witness accounts.
No, people who carry concealed don't go around announcing they are armed and certainly do not have any legal requirement to do so outside of exactly what Zimmerman did.
When Smith asked him if he had seen the subject, Zimmerman replied "I shot him and I'm still armed".
Also, you can make the case that some creepy person following you can be perceived as threatening. I certainly would feel threatened.
By Florida law, prosecutors have to give the defense all evidence they have accumulated against the accused within 15 days of arrest. That clock is ticking.
It will also be revealed that Tracy Martin and Brandy Green weren't even at the house when he supposedly made the trip to 7-11 and was only with his soon to be little brother in law. He left the kid alone and walked to 7-11 in the rain? Hmmmmm?
They went to dinner and a B-ball game and weren't too concerned where poor little Martin was until the next morning.
What's wrong with walking to a 7-11? And what's with the "supposedly" crap? Are you insinuating he planned to hang out till Zimm cruised to Target so he could jump him and kill him?
Do you know it was raining when he left? Do you know when he left? He went to get the little kid some candy -- a nice thing to do. He had just arrived a day or so earlier and might have been antsy and wanting to stretch his legs, maybe look around the area a little. Since when would a 17-yo footballer be worried about a little light rain?
Nothing illegal about any of that.
His Dad said he thought he'd gone to a movie because he didn't answer his cell. And you try to make some kind of child neglect issue out of it.