George Zimmerman Charged With Second-Degree Murder: Fair or Foul?
SodaHead News
2012/04/12 13:00:00
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It took prosecutors a month and a half to charge George Zimmerman in the shooting of Trayvon Martin, but Florida special prosecutor Angela Corey announced the charge on Wednesday, just days after dismissing the grand jury. He's being charged with second-degree murder, and could face life in prison. This doesn't mean he's guilty, but it does mean he's in prison for the time being.
Zimmerman arrived at the Polk Correctional Facility in Florida Wednesday night after the 28-year-old surrendered to law enforcement. Lawyers on both sides of the case anticipate a long and arduous trial. Zimmerman's new lawyers says he is "not concerned about [Zimmerman's] mental well-being" and expects "justice in the end." Martin's mother just wants to "ask him if there were another way that he could have settled the confrontation." Do you think the charges against George Zimmerman sound fair -- or foul?
Zimmerman arrived at the Polk Correctional Facility in Florida Wednesday night after the 28-year-old surrendered to law enforcement. Lawyers on both sides of the case anticipate a long and arduous trial. Zimmerman's new lawyers says he is "not concerned about [Zimmerman's] mental well-being" and expects "justice in the end." Martin's mother just wants to "ask him if there were another way that he could have settled the confrontation." Do you think the charges against George Zimmerman sound fair -- or foul?
Top Opinion
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Foul
+66Prosecutor will have to get all twelve jurors to vote to convict to get this silly murder charge upheld. She knows that is hopeless. The charge carries some lesser homicide charges as "included lesser charges" (like manslaughter) which they can compromise on. The hope would be that by asking for murder 2, they can get Zimmerman to agree to accept something like negligent homicide. If he does, he is being gullible, for they can never get twelve Floridians to agree he is culpable. Even if they get an all black jury, getting twelve of us to agree he did not have the right to defend himself just because his attacker is black would be very unlikely. Too many of us have had family or friends who have been attacked by young men like Trayvon. Having worked with victims of abuse for many years, my sympathy for the victim of the attack (Zimmerman) far outweighs my identification as a Florida black.
So NOW your story is that Zimm went to his truck, Trayvon came up to him there, and then Trayvon RAN a 2nd time, and basically tricked Zimm into following him so he could jump him? Lmao.
Are you the one who said Zimm hit his head on the curb when Trayvon hit him at his truck? Or was that another loon?
Btw, the complex is BIG. Look at an aerial -- about a 1/4 mile from front to back in a straight line, a LOT wider side-to-side. AND Zimm's unit is in the back. So he had to have stopped driving when he saw Trayvon. Makes self-defense tougher -- and profiling or "depraved mind" more plausible. Also plausible that Trayvon could be scared -- and feeling "stalked."
Actually the complex from Oregon Ave. to the very back property line towards the south is only 900 ft. which is 300 yds = 3 football fields from goal-line to goal-line no end zones. A person in good shape can run 100yds (300 ft) in well under 15 seconds.
The distance from where Zimmerman's truck was parked to Brandy's condo is approx. 500 ft on foot.
Fact remains, Zimmerman didn't break a single law and THAT is what the court looks at when determining who was at fault.
The unprovoked attack vs the victim of such.
Courts look at a great deal more than who broke laws and which, if any. And a JURY decides issues of fact. Haven't you ever sat on a criminal jury?
Zimmerman most likely saved someone else's life down the line, a true public service.
You keep avoiding the key bit of evidence. Martin's body was found 30 yards from the door of his destination. NOWHERE near Zimmerman's car. You lie like a rug.
Now go to Google Earth (you have to install if you don't have on your system, its free and a real cool tool.
Now using Google Maps go to the direction tab and enter:
Retreat View, Sanford, FL (the apartment complex) and 1201 WP Ball Blvd, Sanford, FL as destination.
Google maps will DRAW the route right on the map. Remember Zimmerman on the 911 tape made a big deal he lived in a house, not the apartment complex itself. Once you have Google Maps draw the map and give directions you see Zimmerman is full of crap.
To go to Targets he would go in the opposite direction or circle the apartment complex on a outside road and most damning is he couldn't see Zimmerman from his car driving to Target unless of course he drove INTO the apartment complex on another one of his hunting trips and never was going to Target in the first place.
Zimmerman with his loaded gun was looking for somebody he could bully, question and try to detain to role play.
The dispatcher had asked him if it was a apartment and Zim says it's a house. That's quite common for people who live in town-homes & condos to call it a home or a house.
BUT his house/TH/home was nowhere near where he parked to chase Trayvon, which makes "intent" more of a problem for him.
Zimmerman was driving from his own address to the front gate to run an errand. He saw Martin be-boppin' behind the other condos on the way and continued up front but never left the complex and parked on Twin Trees.
Agree that Zimm was parked on Twin Trees. His home address is... XXXX Retreat View Circle, in the SW corner as you say. Whether he left the complex is irrelevant. He drove up Twin Trees, stopped, parked, and got out of his car DELIBERATELY to follow Trayvon.
You don't know that Trayvon was "be-boppin' behind the other condos;" if he had been, Zimm wouldn't have seen him. Trayvon was PROBABLY coming past the clubhouse toward Twin Trees. Zimm PROBABLY parked a little S of the walkway. Maybe Trayvon altered his path so it looked as though he was approaching Zimm; could have been he was just cutting across the street to walk up Twin Trees. But DeeDee said "Run, Forrest, Run!", and he did when Zimm parked and got out of his truck and just stood there staring at him.
He first spots Martin between the condos on the west side.
Trayvon would then have had to be on RVC by the clubhouse for Zimm to see him at all, and Zimm would have to turn Rt. at the clubhouse and go around the bend while Trayvon is walking. Gotta tell you, F&I, if some guy did that to me, I'd be worried too. Then he gets OUT of his truck and comes after me. Hmmm...
Any person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows or harasses another person commits the offense of stalking, a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
Any person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows or harasses another person, and makes a credible threat with the intent to place that person in reasonable fear of death or bodily injury, commits the offense of aggravated stalking, a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
Sorry, they have NO case and basically admitted so in the courtroom today.
5 minutes and that's all the further Martin traveled?
He could have done backwards somersaults and made it to Brandy's condo in that time.
Besides, that is NOT the location of Zimmerman's SUV and Martin didn't come walking through the front gate.
Outside of all that, it was Colonel Mustard in the Library with the candlestick.
How far do you think Zimm could have run/jogged during the time during his 911 call that he's clearly moving (his breathing, the rhythm, etc.)? Assuming he wasn't an Olympic sprinter but wasn't a slug either. You've got to get him into the courtyard to account for his being afraid Trayvon could overhear him talking to the dispatcher.
There were plenty of places for Martin to hide.
How do you know he went to find an address?
Yes, there were plenty of places for Trayvon to hide. So what?
First remark to dispatcher. "There's been a lot of break-ins"
He obviously didn't want Martin to know his address for that reason.Not out of physical fear, but retaliation.
He made a statement that was relayed though the grapevine that he went to the back of the one set of units to grab the address of where he had last seen Martin.
He had already stated that he was parked at a cut-though and didn't know the number.
So what? That's the whole key to his demise. Had he just gone to Brandy's instead of being concerned with exacting revenge, this wouldn't be in the news.
Worst case scenario.... cops show up within a few minutes, make contact with Zimmerman, cruise the neighborhood, fill out a field incident report and everyone goes their merry way. Martin is on the couch munching Skittles and they have no idea where he went.
People call the cops to report suspicious activity every day. Only difference is, most don't get attacked and nearly beaten to death for doing so.
Yes, people call the cops to REPORT suspicious activity. But what happened that night has more differences than the SINGLE one you state.
1. Zimm didn't just "report." He went looking.
2. He had a pistol.
3. He wasn't "nearly beaten to death..." He didn't even have a Band-aid on him till the next day, and he got out of the police car at the station and walked in without help.
You also don't KNOW that Trayvon hid because he wanted to "exact revenge." Revenge for what? Being scared? I agree that if he'd just gone to Brandy's that would have been all there was -- but if Zimm had stayed in his truck, the same answer applies.
Your exaggerations are the problem, not your facts.
Thanks for the info about the address-finding -- do you know someone there? -- but not sure I buy it. Zimm's had a lot of time to work on his story -- maybe Daddy's helping. If the police were on the way and Zimm is ending his 911 call, what difference would an address make? I think if he were REALLy doing that, he'd have said "Hold on a sec, I'll get...
Yes, people call the cops to REPORT suspicious activity. But what happened that night has more differences than the SINGLE one you state.
1. Zimm didn't just "report." He went looking.
2. He had a pistol.
3. He wasn't "nearly beaten to death..." He didn't even have a Band-aid on him till the next day, and he got out of the police car at the station and walked in without help.
You also don't KNOW that Trayvon hid because he wanted to "exact revenge." Revenge for what? Being scared? I agree that if he'd just gone to Brandy's that would have been all there was -- but if Zimm had stayed in his truck, the same answer applies.
Your exaggerations are the problem, not your facts.
Thanks for the info about the address-finding -- do you know someone there? -- but not sure I buy it. Zimm's had a lot of time to work on his story -- maybe Daddy's helping. If the police were on the way and Zimm is ending his 911 call, what difference would an address make? I think if he were REALLy doing that, he'd have said "Hold on a sec, I'll get a number" or something.
I'm still interested in why you think Zimm drove around RVC rather than coming up Twin Trees. Where the diagram places his truck suggests that, but then where's Trayvon when Zimm first sees him? Also, it means he deliberately DIDN'T take the turn by the clubhouse to leave. How do you know Trayvon didn't come in the front entrance?
Another item: Do you know anything about exterior lights there? Streetlights, ground lights, doorway lights, etc.
He wasn't on any 'duty or watch' when he observed Martin, rather planning on running an errand himself.
He wasn't out 'looking' for someone. Considering his very first statement on the tape, there had been an increase in break-ins and he saw someone whom he had never seen before in the complex, out in the rain, who didn't appear to have any particular path or purpose.
Martin was not just walking from point 'A' to point 'B'
He stops and as Zimmerman says, "he's just walking around looking about". He says that Martin is standing there just staring at him and starts walking towards hi to "check me out".
That would have increased Zimmerman's suspicion considering he had made no attempt whatsoever to communicate with Martin.
Yes, I do know quite a few people who live in Seminole Co. and they have access to info that has not been made public. Out of respect, I cannot and will not post certain things on SH or anywhere else.
Prize fighters get the eggs scrambled in the ring, out for the count on the canvas and are back on their feet within seconds. 30 minutes later they're out having dinner.
getting your bell ring is one thing, allowing a beating to continue is why the refs step in and...
He wasn't on any 'duty or watch' when he observed Martin, rather planning on running an errand himself.
He wasn't out 'looking' for someone. Considering his very first statement on the tape, there had been an increase in break-ins and he saw someone whom he had never seen before in the complex, out in the rain, who didn't appear to have any particular path or purpose.
Martin was not just walking from point 'A' to point 'B'
He stops and as Zimmerman says, "he's just walking around looking about". He says that Martin is standing there just staring at him and starts walking towards hi to "check me out".
That would have increased Zimmerman's suspicion considering he had made no attempt whatsoever to communicate with Martin.
Yes, I do know quite a few people who live in Seminole Co. and they have access to info that has not been made public. Out of respect, I cannot and will not post certain things on SH or anywhere else.
Prize fighters get the eggs scrambled in the ring, out for the count on the canvas and are back on their feet within seconds. 30 minutes later they're out having dinner.
getting your bell ring is one thing, allowing a beating to continue is why the refs step in and stop fights before a permanently damaging or fatal blow occurs.
He's still quite a distance from his vehicle when he ends the call, having gone out to the ears side of Retreat View Cir, to see if Martin was visible on that street.
He still has to go grab an address on the way back because up until that time, he hadn't done so. Then he makes sure they have his phone number in case he hasn't made it back to his truck before they arrive.
Zimmerman taking RVC to head up to the gate was the most direct, logical and shortest path from his residence. Why would anyone chose to make all the turns and purposely drive through the center of the complex?
Front gate is closed at 7PM. One witness aid that there was a lone porch light on, by a neighbor who always leaves it lit every day-night etc. That was it, no other lights on in the immediate area. There are no street lights behind the condos or any walkway lighting.
Killing someone is against the law.
Of course you shouldn't reveal any info you're not comfortable about; I've been interested in the details you've supplied. Thanks for the info re lights.
The reason I suggested he went up Twin Trees is precisely because of how he describes Trayvon at first when he calls. Logistically, going up TT is a direct shot out the gate, instead of turning left by the clubhouse. Depending on signage at the entrance, that might be easier. I used to live in a gated community with an entry not unlike RVC, and it was a LOT easier to go straight out than to turn -- you could get stuck waiting for people coming in for quite awhile. Not saying that would happen at 7:00 on a Sunday night, but if you're in the habit of doing something a certain way, you usually go on doing it that way. As I said, the location of his truck (if it's accurate) makes your version seem more logical -- but I think it's not so good for him.
Anytime a mortality is involved and a direct result of a firearm, knife wound, etc. it is listed as a homicide... the person was killed. (even suicides)
Not all homicides are crimes and that is where 1,000's of factors come into play.
For instance, in Las Vegas, NV. you can run right over someone out in the middle of the street and turn them into a possum pizza.
If that person was not in a marked crosswalk or at the apex of an intersection, the driver isn't even given a citation.
I don't know how to embed -- I pictured Zimm taking the street that turns right N. of his home around to Twin Trees. Where he's parked doesn't work, but your route means he deliberately turned away from the entrance because of seeing Trayvon -- and that makes it look like he followed him in his truck.
He does slow down, stops and continues numerous times before exiting the vehicle at 7:11:40. At no time does he attempt to make any contact with Martin whatsoever and is merely driving, and talking with the SPD dispatcher.
It is not a crime to merely observe the movements of someone as long as no attempt to confront them or attempt to restrain them.
The front gate automatically shuts at 7:00PM.
There are no fences or walls on the perimeter in that upper top left section of the complex. The rest of the walls aren't that high either as it's not sealed off like Ft. Knox, more or less to prohibit unauthorized vehicle traffic.
You either have that info from expanded statements by Zimm that haven't been reported or from someone who, in fact, witnessed a whole lot more than anyone has yet admitted.
I don't know about you, but if I saw someone "walking around looking at the buildings," I'd assume they were confused, especially if there are no addresses on the fronts. Maybe he WAS walking around. Or maybe he wanted to look at the lake or the clubhouse. That's not against the law either. I might ask if I could help -- I wouldn't (eventually -- when I FINALLY found him more than 5 minutes later) say "What are you doing here?" AND I wouldn't call 911 until after I had asked whether I could help and formed a better impression of the person than just "He's on drugs or somethin.'"
Zimm's 911 call and his track record of reporting "suspicious" people are 2 of the most serious problems with letting him go because Trayvon decked him and he "feared for his life."
Zimmerman DOES state that the subject appears to be on drugs and "he's not right".
It very well could have been someone who was disoriented, had just been robbed and stabbed but still on their feet..... Zimmerman had no idea and chose the best option by making the call and reporting it.
One minute people are chastising him for even observing Martin and now you're suggesting he could have confronted him?
Lose - lose situation in the eyes of public perception, depending on the dealer.
Had it turned out that Martin was a special needs 'kid' who had wandered out in the rain, Zimmerman would have been been praised for being extra attentive.
He simply didn't know at the time, what the reason was for Martin's presence, only that is was someone out in the rain, not appearing to have any particular direction, and the recent history of break-ins.
Martin running away, after he had just been standing there staring at Zimmerman was more than enough to add even more suspicion.