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Four months until Election Day 2012

Mopeder 2012/07/05 09:42:47
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  • ScottyG - Faqueue 2012/07/05 23:13:10 (edited)
    I can't wait.
    ScottyG - Faqueue
    +47
    Obie boi, will loose it for 3 reasons. I don't even have to bother with the rest of the reasons he will lose on. The big 3 are enough.

    1. Economy.
    2. Jobs.
    3. Ozombiecare

    Reuters Poll: 73% of Independents Oppose Obamacare

    http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfr...

    Obie can kiss his ass goodbye.

    And when the news outlets start showing this video, he's a goner.

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  • lstl5 Starchild 2012/08/01 20:41:40
    lstl5
    You said on hand it was immoral, but on the other it was ok for lobbyist to pay to get what they want. Voluntary tax is crazy. I am not going to volunteer to give any of my money, but if the law says I have to, I will.
  • Starchild lstl5 2012/08/05 12:57:52
    Starchild
    There are two distinctly different categories of lobbying; one moral, the other not. It's moral to lobby *defensively*, such as someone trying to keep government from taking their money or imposing regulations on them which violate their rights, but not to lobby *aggressively* by seeking subsidies or legal privileges.

    What's crazy about letting people keep the money they have earned and that justly belongs to them? I think it's crazy to institutionalize theft!

    If you believe in what government is doing, why wouldn't you voluntarily give money to support it? After all, if it's not a good enough cause for someone like you who believes in it to support it voluntarily, how can it possibly be a good enough cause to justify coercively taking money from someone else to pay for it, who might not even believe in it as you do?
  • lstl5 Starchild 2012/08/05 13:49:11
    lstl5
    First of all, we have always paid according to income, so that is nothing new, but what has changed thru the years, is all the loopholes to keep the rich from paying more. If everyone was taxed without any deductions, the rich would be paying alot more and so would you and me. How can a person who has a horse for recreational purposes or contests get a tax break of $77,000. That is ridiculous on all levels.
  • Starchild lstl5 2012/08/08 12:04:48
    Starchild
    There was no income tax in the United States prior to 1913. When it began, only a small number of top earners paid a very small amount.

    What has changed through the years is that government expanded it to steal from more people, and to take larger amounts of money.

    But the basic issue here is that the money belongs to the people who earn it, not to any government. Whether you are rich or poor, if government demands money from you under penalty of law, it is robbery, and it is wrong.

    This is the hidden violence underlying the system which people typically try to sweep under the rug and ignore.

    People who want to address society's needs via government need to put their money where their mouths are, rather than seeking to force others to subsidize their political agendas. If a proposal makes sense and sounds worthy to me, I am willing to consider voluntarily donating to support it, but I do not consent to be robbed against my will.

    If the system has to rely on robbery to maintain itself, maybe that is a sign that it is not worth maintaining, and needs to reconfigure itself into something that people will voluntarily support without the threat of violence.
  • lstl5 Starchild 2012/08/09 07:43:15
    lstl5
    Nobody is scamming Romney. How can anyone claim 77,.000 loss on a horse? It isnt like you have to feed them steak evey night, or house them in expensive hotels. He already has a place to keep the horse, and probably the biggest expense would be traveling expenses to get them to the contests, but why should they be able to claim a loss of that amount because their horse cant win a contest? People claim losses for businesses all the time, and probably never invested as much as they claim. Quit feeling sorry for rich people, they scam the govt. Please!!
  • Starchild lstl5 2012/08/15 11:34:32
    Starchild
    Afraid I'm not familiar with the particular story about Romney's horse to which you refer. But race horses can be very expensive! It's not at all inconceivable that he lost $77K investing in a horse that turned out not to be able to win enough races to recoup the money he paid for it.

    That is all somewhat beside the point though. Salient points here:

    (1) I don't "feel sorry" for rich people in general, and certainly not for Mitt Romney in particular. I can't stand Romney; I think he is arrogant, hypocritical, unethical, an opportunistic flip-flopper, and power-hungry (not necessarily in that order).

    (2) Even if someone has 10 times as much money as Romney does, he or she should not have a dime of that money stolen by any government!

    (3) Since government *does* steal money from people, I don't blame anyone, rich or poor, for taking advantage of whatever tax write-offs, shelters, loopholes, and what not they can, no matter how absurd these mechanisms appear on paper, if it helps them minimize the theft.

    NO MORE  Robomney  Gary Johnson 2012
  • lstl5 Starchild 2012/08/15 11:39:23
    lstl5
    We are paying for public schools, decent roads, services to keep our air and water clean just to name a few. The govt isnt scamming us but if we let someone like Romney/Ryan get in office, and they privatize everything, we will all be in deep shyt.
  • Starchild lstl5 2012/08/15 11:45:05
    Starchild
    So don't vote for Romney/Ryan! I certainly won't be. If the GOP establishment succeeds in effectively shutting out Ron Paul as appears likely, Gary Johnson is the only choice that makes sense to me.

    www.GaryJohnson2012.com
  • lstl5 Starchild 2012/08/15 11:49:01
    lstl5
    I have heard Johnson speak and I like him, however, a third party candidate cannot win. I also liked Roehmer but it is a wasted vote to vote for these guys. Maybe some day.
  • Starchild lstl5 2012/08/15 12:01:58
    Starchild
    Glad to hear you did get a chance to hear Gary Johnson speak and liked him. I would appeal to you to reconsider dismissing him just because he's with an alternative party.

    The only vote that's really wasted is a vote for candidate you don't believe is the best for the job.

    This is because to the extent people don't vote for the candidate they really want to see in office, democracy is broken, since the results will never reflect the public's real preferences.

    If someone votes in a manner that fails to uphold the basic purpose of democracy, but instead undermines the very system that the person is expressing faith in by taking the trouble to vote in the first place, how is that not a wasted vote?

    Everybody is (well, too many people are) trying to "game the system" by voting not based on their own beliefs and judgements about the merits and character of the candidates, but based on *how they expect OTHER people to vote*. People think this is being smart/clever/pragmatic, but actually all it does is ensure the perpetuation of the failed status quo, while contributing to the destruction of democracy (see above).

    Your one vote will not decide the outcome of any national election anyway, any more than my vote or anyone else's will. Even in the once-in-a-lifetime-close 2000 election, you...



    Glad to hear you did get a chance to hear Gary Johnson speak and liked him. I would appeal to you to reconsider dismissing him just because he's with an alternative party.

    The only vote that's really wasted is a vote for candidate you don't believe is the best for the job.

    This is because to the extent people don't vote for the candidate they really want to see in office, democracy is broken, since the results will never reflect the public's real preferences.

    If someone votes in a manner that fails to uphold the basic purpose of democracy, but instead undermines the very system that the person is expressing faith in by taking the trouble to vote in the first place, how is that not a wasted vote?

    Everybody is (well, too many people are) trying to "game the system" by voting not based on their own beliefs and judgements about the merits and character of the candidates, but based on *how they expect OTHER people to vote*. People think this is being smart/clever/pragmatic, but actually all it does is ensure the perpetuation of the failed status quo, while contributing to the destruction of democracy (see above).

    Your one vote will not decide the outcome of any national election anyway, any more than my vote or anyone else's will. Even in the once-in-a-lifetime-close 2000 election, you would've had to convince several hundred people living in Florida to change their votes in order to change the outcome.

    So if you have several hundred friends who will vote the way you tell them to, and you are a psychic who can predict that another "hanging chad" election is going to happen, then maybe it makes sense to vote for "the lesser evil" on the theory that you will change the outcome.

    Otherwise, mathematically speaking, when we vote we are simply registering our preferences and adding to someone's total. I know it's not as satisfying as thinking our votes have any chance of actually changing the outcome, but I'd rather vote based on reality than based on wishful thinking.
    (more)
  • lstl5 Starchild 2012/08/15 12:06:37
    lstl5
    Well, I really like President Obama and the democratic party. I know you probably dont want to hear that, but I do. I like what he has done so far even with the right fighting him in everything he has tried to do. I support him and I trust him.
  • Starchild lstl5 2012/08/18 13:05:56
    Starchild
    I would be most curious to hear a good psychologist interview you about the reasons for those feelings and that trust, but since that's not a possibility, I'll let the matter rest. Be well.
  • lstl5 Starchild 2012/08/18 13:32:48
    lstl5
    I am not complex at all. I dont vote against my best interests. I try to treat others as I would want them to treat me in all things including how I vote. I believe to be a great country, we have to care for our own especially for those who cannot or will not care for themselves, and I know if I were rich, I would pay my fair share of taxes because I didnt get rich on my own. I believe that we need to make sure our seniors do not have to live in poverty to pay for their healthcare. See, I am perfectly normal.
  • Starchild lstl5 2012/08/18 13:59:35
    Starchild
    Okay, I thought I was done, but your comment that "I try to treat others as I would want them to treat me in all things" drew me back in.

    Would you want others to deny you due process if arrested or incarcerated?

    Would you want others to kill you as a civilian with drones in an undeclared war?

    Would you want to take away your safe access to cannabis if you used it for a medical condition?

    No? Then why vote to reelect a president who does these things to people?
  • lstl5 Starchild 2012/08/18 15:23:34
    lstl5
    Has that ever happened? No. I am glad he killed Alawaki with drones. He didnt deserve to live and he would have died anyway if he went to court. Saved lots of money. Look what is going on with Hasan in Texas? Spendng all this money to care for him and he is a roach. They should have killed him. The case in California was decided by a judge, not Obama. I could get cannabis from my neighbors. Heck, they cant catch the illegal dealers, they sure wouldnt bother me. Obama 2012.
  • Starchild lstl5 2012/08/19 05:22:12
    Starchild
    Anwar Alawaki (not sure that's the correct spelling of his name, but I think we're talking about the same person) was a U.S. citizen. Not that this means he should have more rights -- everyone deserves the right to legal due process before being summarily executed -- but if Obama can do that to him, and the precedent is allowed to stand, then any U.S. president can do it to anyone.

    If you wouldn't trust a President Romney with that power, or a President Ryan, or -- heaven forbid, a President Santorum, etc. -- then you shouldn't want Obama to have it either. Obama is jeopardizing the lives, liberty, and basic human rights of people in this country, needlessly.

    There is no reason that people like Alawaki cannot be tried in absentia, if they refuse to appear in court, and the evidence against them can be presented to a jury, with counsel there to argue on their behalf. If the jury is convinced they deserve the death penalty -- something I am personally against, but leaving that aside for the moment -- then they can issue a verdict and give the Feds the green light to assassinate the person.

    If the evidence against somebody isn't good enough to get a conviction in open court, maybe we ought to think twice before giving our approval to extra-judicial murders committed by those in power.
  • lstl5 Starchild 2012/08/19 18:43:11
    lstl5
    Alawaki was guilty beyond all doubt. There was no need to waste govts money to try him. President Obama is not just randomly picking off people he "thinks' might have done something and he never will. You are knit picking and you know it. I have more concern that Romney may take us into another war, not to mention screw up the safety nets for our seniors.
  • Starchild lstl5 2012/08/20 21:21:15
    Starchild
    How do you know he was "guilty beyond all doubt"? And guilty of what? From what the media has told us that the government said about him?

    Standing up for due process and our Constitutional rights is not "nitpicking"!

    And this is not just about this case of Alawaki, or about this president, Obama. It's about setting a correct rule-of-law precedent for other cases, and other presidents (including potentially Mitt Romney -- do you trust him deciding who government forces should execute without a trial?).

    Anyone who cares about freedom, democracy, and basic human rights should be very, very nervous about people saying government need not waste its time putting people on trial, just decide they are guilty and kill them.
  • lstl5 Starchild 2012/08/20 23:52:51
    lstl5
    He had something to do with Hasan at Ft hood and look what he did. Yes, he is guilty beyond a shadow, and deserved to die. We will never have a govt that just kills people at random.
  • Starchild lstl5 2012/08/21 09:31:16
    Starchild
    Someone had "something to do with" someone who did something evil. Therefore he is guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt and deserves to be put to death?

    Do you really think the U.S. government is incapable of mass murder?

    Or is mass murder by government (democide) only wrong in your view if it is not "random", i.e. if they come up with some barely plausible justification for the people they kill, such as "they were involved with terrorism"?
  • lstl5 Starchild 2012/08/21 10:01:44
    lstl5
    Govts are in many cases, guilty of mass murder but not ours.
  • Starchild lstl5 2012/08/22 10:25:06
    Starchild
    "Ours?" What makes a government "ours"? Who are "we", and why do you define "we" that way? Do you think "we" deserve or have rights that "they" do not deserve or have, and if so, why?

    I think it's important to hold governments to equal standards, and not cut a government extra slack (or judge it more harshly, either) just because one feels some kind of personal connection to that government.
  • Starchild lstl5 2012/08/22 10:27:03
    Starchild
    P.S. - I don't know whether by "our" government you mean only the current U.S. administration, but for an example of historical mass murder by a U.S. government (circa 1945), I refer you to this article:

    http://blog.independent.org/2...
  • lstl5 Starchild 2012/08/22 10:54:37
    lstl5
    Because we are the govt, thats why. Of, by, and for the people. I am the govt. Where have you been all your life?
  • lstl5 Starchild 2012/08/22 10:55:17
    lstl5
    Ohhh the boogey mans going to get you. lol
  • Starchild lstl5 2012/08/23 07:00:16
    Starchild
    Don't tell me you believe that high school civics textbook propaganda! You think we are the government, and democracy is functioning? Then how come my preferred candidate isn't even allowed to participate in the presidential debates?

    I was born on a part of the earth's surface under the jurisdiction of the entity calling itself the United States government, and have been here most of my life. But my relationship with the U.S. government is non-consensual. I do not have any meaningful voice or say in its operation, and I do not recognize its legitimacy or authorize it to represent me. I think it is grossly and criminally mismanaging the jurisdiction it controls, and I think it has this in common with most entities in the world calling themselves governments and claiming similar jurisdiction.
  • Starchild lstl5 2012/08/23 07:11:29
    Starchild
    Whatever you want to call them, it seems they've "gotten" a lot of people -- do a web search for "world's highest incarceration rate" and see which country is identified with that phrase.
  • lstl5 Starchild 2012/08/29 21:27:01
    lstl5
    You are right there. There are some rules that need to be changed.
  • lstl5 Starchild 2012/08/29 21:28:01
    lstl5
    That is because we put people away for minor offenses because it is all about the money.
  • Starchild lstl5 2012/09/01 08:15:29
    Starchild
    Agreed -- money and authoritarianism, the philosophy that lurks in the shadows unwilling to declare itself for what it is but always ready with a fig leaf justification for every manifestation of control over peoples' lives, like "national security" or "for the children".

    Of course *we* don't put people away (assuming you, like myself, do not work for the police/prison industry). Government officials and their employees do, because as public servants they are noble, altruistic human beings only trying to do what's best for society, as opposed to the greedy, cold-hearted people who run "private" corporations. Oh wait.
  • txtumlin findthe... 2012/07/08 02:54:28
    txtumlin
    +1
    Some folks are dreamers, no matter the nightmare facing them! nightmares
  • findthe... txtumlin 2012/07/08 03:45:01
    findthelight2000
    Some people build mountains out of molehills, and force themselves to live nightmares when the way out is the door they are afraid to open.
  • lstl5 findthe... 2012/07/08 16:47:56
    lstl5
    +2
    I tried to respond to her and she blocked me, and she cries about other people blocking her. She really is pathetic. Ya, we will alll get out there and vote for all dems and get those blood sucking tea party maggots out of there.
  • Starchild lstl5 2012/07/22 14:58:45
    Starchild
    Did you know that Obama claims the power to unilaterally assassinate people, including U.S. citizens, anywhere around the world any time on his say-so without any due process? Mitt Romney thinks this is fine too.

    Unlike the millions of innocent people who continue to be incarcerated in the name of controlling what you can put into your own body, Obama and Romney don't have to worry about the abuse of government power, because as part of the establishment they are largely above the law.

    A vote for Obama is a vote for Romney, and a vote for Romney is a vote for Obama!


    no elephonkey  gary johnson  ron paul  2012
  • lstl5 Starchild 2012/07/23 13:50:00
    lstl5
    No, the difference is in who they try to protect. Romney-the rich, and Obama-the middle class and poor. It isnt complicated. I am ready for a third party, but the country isnt, so right now we are stuck with the 2 parties.
  • Starchild lstl5 2012/07/25 10:21:56
    Starchild
    They both try to protect themselves and their political interests first, and the *substantive* differences between their policies toward the wealthy and the poor are minimal. Voting for the lesser evil still produces evil. The only way out is for people to start voting their consciences, otherwise the two party cartel can maintain its grip indefinitely.
  • lstl5 Starchild 2012/07/25 14:52:19
    lstl5
    I have always voted my conscience and for the politicians who will help me the most. It just so happens they are democrats. If I was filthy rich, I would vote for republicans because I know they will cut my taxes.
  • Starchild lstl5 2012/07/27 12:02:08
    Starchild
    Your conscience tells you to just be greedy and help yourself? That doesn't sound like much of a conscience to me.
  • lstl5 Starchild 2012/07/27 12:18:00
    lstl5
    What are you talking about? It has nothing to do with greed. That is life. You always try to do things that will benefit you, dont you?? It doesnt matter if it is politics or buying a TV. Of course, we always look out for ourselves and family first.
  • Starchild lstl5 2012/07/27 12:39:22
    Starchild
    My conscience doesn't tell me to vote for the candidates I think will help me the most. It tells me to vote for the candidates I think will do the most good for the most people.

    Just as I will always vote against rent control, despite the fact that it benefits me personally because I live in a rent-controlled apartment, because I know that it hurts people more than it helps overall.

    Looking out for yourself and your family first is fine and natural when it comes to determining what decisions to make for yourself, with your own time, money, and life.

    However it is unethical when it comes to determining what decisions to make in public policy, because then you are talking about using *other people's* money to forcibly interfere in other people's lives.

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