First Fish Photographed Using Tool: Impressed?

I'm tempted. But I'm hoping that logic and reason will eventually win out.

Good luck with that :3
It's hard when everything is "God's will".

Intelligence tests are misnamed.

I find it unprofitable to rule out related topics. We have become so compartmentalized in science, medicine, etc. that we forget there are other aspects that apply to our subject.

So in other words, you're throwing out key evidence based on decades of the use of the word because it doesn't fit into your definition. Nice. I'm through with you. Your use of logic is actually painful.

No. You want to throw out evidence by limiting the conversation.

None of your links show that instinct is inherited. Only by presupposing that it must be hereditary, since it is not learned, can that be said, and there is not scientific evidence for a means of changing and passing on such useful instincts. God teaches us that intelligence in born into the creation. It does not come from the body but the spirit.

A remark I found on http://boards.straightdope.co... seems apropos:

"I think the crux here is that there's no Lamarckian inheritance -- i.e. a behaviour learned during the life cycle of an individual cannot be passed down through genetics. In order for eventual offspring to inherit a certain behavioural trait, it must have been present in the parent from birth, i.e. it either must have inherited it itself, or a convenient mutation in the genome must have occurred."

Instinct is NOT learned. Holy crap. As I said - I'm done with you. You obviously did not read anything I posted - it all says that instinct IS inherited, and that it is not learned behavior, but rather reflexive behavior.

I did read the links you posted.

And you did not read what I said.

I said that we, including the animals, bring things to our mortal lives from the spirit world we lived in before we came here.

It is impossible to inherit instinct from our parents, or that instinct would have had to exist in the earliest life (and no one can explain how that life came to be with all the seeds of every living creature to come).

We also come here (humans) as male or female (even in the spirit).

This is why science cannot learn the Truth while holding God at arm's length.

Yet again, you keep proving that you did not read what I sent.

In those links, countless times, scientists state that yes - you inherit INSTINCT. It's primal, and you inherit it.

This is the last time I'm responding to you. You have made it abundantly clear that you will ignore every single scientific study brought to you in favor of religion, and that is a shame. Good day.

I will ignore what is not backed up by more than supposition. Some of that was from the 19th century and the ideas have been debunked.

Those are not tools, those are our bodies. A rock is not part of that fish's body.
That's why its called tool and that's why that fish is actually being smart. Using a tool is just not normal in most of the animal world.

I should have listened to you and just given up. >.< My head hurts now.

Awww...
:/
Ignore him :D
after all he'll live in half ignorance o.o

Technically that's not tool use. Tool use would be the fish taking up a rock to break the cockle, not taking the cockle to the rock. That's simply manipulating its environment.
However, it does show logic.

Now, he knows how it feels to be caught and served for dinner.

Yeah, the use of the term "tool" here confuses me. Though abstractly, it is using the rock as one. Unless it was just flailing. I'm more surprised to know fish don't normally do that.

In my experience, fish will try to eat something and if they can't they will spit it out. I think he knows what he's doing when he bangs the shell on the rock and that it constitutes the use of a tool to get a job done. I doubt the fish tries to bang the shell against sand. He probably looks specifically for a rock.

I disagree. The rock is used as a specific tool for getting open the mollusk. When you wash a glass, does it matter if you spin the glass on the sponge, or spin the sponge in the glass? Either way, the sponge is a tool.

I disagree. The rock indeed is used as a tool. Since the fish is unable to pick it up with his fins, he has to use it as best as he can.

No big deal. Animals and bugs think! We have all decided to ignore that thought in order to eat them! Don't get me wrong I love eating some fish! I would have a very hard time eating one I saw any spark of thought in! Most people would. When a cat puts a toy in its water bowl to get your attention the water bowl is empty that is thought! When a cat seems to be tripping you but you end up looking at its food dish to see it empty that is thought! The cat had to corral you there and know you would look down! It is very hard for a cat to put up anything and smash it open! paws and a small mouth don't give it much to work with. Now that fish has a hugh mouth and teeth!! not just any fish could pick up a shell and do that! They probably wish they could!! Yes, most things have thoughts! I want to fly and go to the moon! My body does not allow me too by itself! If and alien comes to earth and can just float up and go there without a ship. Does that make him smarter? More important? More feeling and the right to eat me? Nope. He just has evolved differently! So we Humans makes TOOLS!! to fly in the sky and space! The Aliens would say; "Look at that cute little Earthling, he is using his hands and making stuff, lets not eat that one. He's has thought we can measure!" Perspective: Everything with a mind thinks! Just not how you do!

You got that right. After weeks of "training" my black lab to give me whatever he had in his mouth for a treat I soon learned he was stealing things on purpose (remote, pens, my phone, etc.) just so I'd call him and trade the treat to get my possession back. So, who really has trained who here?

tl;dr

Just not that impressive. Lots of animals do the exact same thing. Eagles drop turtles on rocks; birds use sticks to dig bugs out of trees, etc.

I've had fish that would pick up rocks to bash open snail shells.

maybe it wasn't a tool

Very impressed.

I know that I will be enjoying dinner and dessert.

They aren't so dumb are they????

i dont think the fish is doing anything impressive. its the cockle dragging the fish against the rock to break himself out of his shell so he can stretch his legs a little bit. now thats one impressive cock...le

My aunts fish used to build little mountains of rocks in its tank all the time. Fish are kooky and smarter than we think.

The so-called "lower" Animals are the only intelligent life on the planet.

.......THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH?

I meant to say "no." I would, however, be impressed to see a hammerhead shark or a sawfish use their heads as tools. That would be amazing.

I would really love to have another species to co-exist with!

Chimps use them,fish use them.Humans aren't so special.

Birds too.

Seems pretty cool to me.