Female genital mutilation and Islam. Where is the outrage?

jerry 2012/09/14 20:28:22
Don't rock the boat...it's not our problem...we don't want them any madder at us than they already are.
This is a barbaric, misogynistic practice, that is a human rights violation and demands condemnation.
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The horribly sad facts:

  • Female genital mutilation (FGM) includes procedures that intentionally alter or cause injury to the female genital organs for non-medical reasons.
  • The procedure has no health benefits for girls and women.
  • Procedures can cause severe bleeding and problems urinating, and later cysts, infections, infertility as well as complications in childbirth increased risk of newborn deaths.
  • About 140 million girls and women worldwide are currently living with the consequences of FGM.
  • FGM is mostly carried out on young girls sometime between infancy and age 15.
  • In Africa an estimated 92 million girls 10 years old and above have undergone FGM.
  • FGM is a violation of the human rights of girls and women.

What does Islam have to do with it?

Islamic scholars disagree on FGM: some say no obligatory rules exist while others refer to the mention of female circumcision in the Hadith. According to Sami A. Aldeeb Abu Sahlieh, a Palestinian-Swiss specialist in Islamic law:

The most often mentioned narration reports a debate between Muhammed and Um Habibah (or Um 'Atiyyah). This woman, known as an exciser of female slaves, was one of a group of women who had immigrated with Muhammed. Having seen her, Muhammad asked her if she kept practicing her profession. She answered affirmatively, adding: "unless it is forbidden, and you order me to stop doing it." Muhammed replied: "Yes, it is allowed. Come closer so I can teach you: if you cut, do not overdo it, because it brings more radiance to the face, and it is more pleasant for the husband."

Abu Sahlieh further cited Muhammad as saying, "Circumcision is a sunna (tradition) for the men and makruma (honorable deed) for
the women."

As a husband and father of four girls, I can barely approach this issue (or see the images) without tearing up. What are your thoughts?

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  • robinfrans.winkel 2014/02/16 19:59:08
    This is a barbaric, misogynistic practice, that is a human rights violation a...
    Luckily Iran and Saudi-Arabia will destroy each other. Better convert or burn in Hell.
  • Lisa 2012/09/18 07:21:47
    This is a barbaric, misogynistic practice, that is a human rights violation a...
    Sounds like a real WAR ON WOMEN, not the fake one liberal women have created for Obama.
  • jerry Lisa 2012/09/18 15:54:05
    great point!
  • Lisa jerry 2012/09/19 02:16:23
    Thanks Jerry!
  • TasselLady 2012/09/14 20:45:22
    This is a barbaric, misogynistic practice, that is a human rights violation a...
    It's my understanding that SUPPOSEDLY there is no genital mutilation in Islam, but occurs in some other religions like the Hindu, some sects in Africa and some other nations like it. Don't tell me that Islam is doing this too???? I don't remember it being done in the muslim community.
  • AndrewTally 2012/09/14 20:42:50
    Don't rock the boat...it's not our problem...we don't want them any madder at...
    More Islamophobic nonsense. Both Muslims and Jews condemned this German courts ruling. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/wo...
  • W123 2012/09/14 20:34:58
    This is a barbaric, misogynistic practice, that is a human rights violation a...
    your argument has ONE big flaw.
    I know this for a FACT that cannot be denied.
    You see I'm Middle Eastern live in Bahrain studied Islam's history the Quran and sharia. So I do know what I'm talking about. And Islam happened to give the women the right for divorce if the MAN wasnt satisfying HER believe it or not. And well also if the women didnts satisfy him so its pretty much of a fair deal when it comes to sex.
    And africans do that for cultural reasons more than they are religous, theyr not even muslims.
  • TasselLady W123 2012/09/14 20:48:01
    That's what I thought. AT first I believed that ALL middle east countries did this, but evidently it's not the case. Thank God I don't live in a culture that does that. God put everything there for a reason. It was never meant to be removed. And of course it was MEN who decided THAT wasn't it? Disgusting pigs.
  • W123 TasselLady 2012/09/14 20:52:57
    Yepp, in Africa that is. Not the Middle East. You see in Middle Eastern culture the women must keep her self "untouched" till the day she's married, because its believed that for a better experience both parties must be enjoying it. After all the middle easterns were VERY famous with their very romantic poems and tales.
  • TasselLady W123 2012/09/14 20:56:07
    That's a good thing for people to know. At least the middle east isn't barbaric in THAT sense. I think it's because the radical muslim extremists have done the same damage to the reputation of Islam as many of these fake christians have in true Christianity which is my faith, that is, made EVERYBODY look bad to the point where they think everyone is the same. That's very unfortunate. Not everybody should be painted with the same brush. There is good and bad in all faiths.
  • W123 TasselLady 2012/09/14 21:00:21
    Couldnt have said it better.
  • Tastentier TasselLady 2012/09/14 21:28:55 (edited)
    I think your outrage shouldn't be directed at men, but at violent, inhumane and backwards cultures. Turning this into a gender issue only places false blame on Western men and detracts from the fact that there are cultures and ideologies that drive people to do horrible things.

    At the very least, you should narrow it down to "men in many Muslim-majority countries". But personally, I hold both sexes responsible for cultural norms and practices. Mothers spend more time with their children, especially during their most formative years, and have a far greater impact on their son's psychological development, beliefs and future behavior than fathers do. Barbaric cultural practices are never exclusively the fault of a single gender.
  • TasselLady Tastentier 2013/02/09 16:09:57
    You definitely have a point there. But I can't help but wonder if women of those cultures weren't brainwashed from the cradle about the fact that this mutilation should occur. I'm sure that the idea did originally come from men since many of them are selfish bastards and want complete control over their women. This is just one of many ways it's done. God put all of our parts where they are for a reason. The fact that a few human beings made a judgment that it should be removed is just horrible and against God's natural plan for human beings regarding sexual relations. Nobody can justify that cruelty. I'm just fortunate I do not have to adhere to such a culture. If and when I marry I want and need the right to enjoy sex as well as my husband. I understand, however, what you're saying.
  • Tastentier W123 2012/09/14 21:17:17

    What the... female genital mutilation is practiced in countless African Muslim-majority countries, as well as in in parts of Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Iraq and Kurdistan, Iran, Syria, and Indonesia. Bahrain is not the only Muslim country, you know. Your statement is a blatant lie.
  • W123 Tastentier 2012/09/14 21:25:31
    Oh that is not true. My friends are Saudis, my grandma is Iranian, Iraq is the nationality of my teacher, Jordan my mom studied at, Syria is where my aunt lived for a while. So in these countries at least I know for a fact genital mutilation is NOT practiced. AND has NOTHING to do with Islam, more of cultural reasons.So please. Bahrain Kuwait Oman Qatar United Arab Emirates Egypt are others I know that do not do such things so I repeat if any genital mutilation was made in an islamic country the reason isnt religon related but cultural as I said, I studied Islamics for 3 years so I know what I'm talking about.
  • Tastentier W123 2012/09/14 21:34:30
    Sorry, but that is not true. I trust the reports of human rights organisations over your anecdotal evidence.
  • W123 Tastentier 2012/09/14 21:36:06
    Did they say its due to Islamic teaching? Because that what the post believes. I'm not saying such things dont happen.
  • Tastentier W123 2012/09/14 22:00:08
    As I understood it, circumcision is one of the hygienic and cosmetic practices that are prescribed in the Sunan al-fitra. Some Muslim schools of thought believe that both genders are to be circumcised. Others believe that female circumcision is optional, but recommend the removal of the clitoral hood (a type I FGM procedure, which often results in a removal of the clitoral glans as well) because it allegedly has medical or hygienic benefits.
  • W123 Tastentier 2012/09/14 22:04:27
    Nope not true. Do I have to send you a photo of my privates to believe me? Okay slightly innapropriate sorry.
    How is it that my school taught me what I wrote above? I'm sorry but apparently you want to believe its true, and you shall. Have a good day.
  • Tastentier W123 2012/09/14 22:22:33
    The Saudi Arabian Islamic scholar Muhammad Saalih Al-Munajjid disagrees with you. So do the gynecologists Dr. Haamid al-Ghawaabi and his female colleague Dr. Sitt al-Banaat Khaalid whom the Sheikh quotes in this article:

    Another authority on this topic is the Muslim pediatrician Dr. Hatem al-Haj, who published a paper called “Circumcision of Girls: Jurisprudence and Medicine" in which he wrote:

    "The ruling on circumcision: Scholars have differed on the ruling on circumcision. They have agreed on its legitimacy for both sexes, but beyond that they have differed. Some–most famously the Shafi’ites–believe that it is obligatory for both sexes. Some believe it is obligatory for men only, and some believe it is recommended for both. At the very least it can be said that for women it is an honor, and for men it is sunnah."
  • W123 Tastentier 2012/09/14 22:39:14
  • jerry W123 2012/09/14 22:51:33
    Nice try...France 7.5% muslim, South and Southeast Asia 24.8% muslim, Singapore 14.9% muslim, Austria 5.7% muslim, Germany 5.0% muslim, Sweden 4.9% muslim, U.K 4.6%, Canada 2.8% muslim, Europe overall 6.0% and on and on and on.

    This practice spreads with the immigration.
  • W123 Tastentier 2012/09/14 22:12:14
    oh and you made me check out wikipedia here you have it
    Judaism requires circumcision for boys, but does not allow it for girls.[23] Islamic scholars have said that, while male circumcision is a sunna, or religious obligation, female genital modification is not required, and several have issued a fatwa against Type III FGM
  • Tastentier W123 2012/09/14 22:41:27
    Type II and even type I FGM are severe enough. Even type I FGM often leads to frigidity, since the clitoral glans numbs if it isn't protected by the hood / prepuce.

    And since the glans is often partially or completely fused to the prepuce, or so small that it is difficult to tell apart from the surrounding tissue, many type I FGM procedures end up removing the glans as well.

    As for what Islamic scholars believe, see my post above. Shafi'i scholars believe that FGM is obligatory. Other schools believe that it's optional but recommendable because of imaginary medical benefits that are nothing but folk superstitions. Whatever the reason, religious dogma or cultural tradition, the fact remains that many Muslim girls are "circumcised".
  • jerry Tastentier 2012/09/14 21:28:15
    Thank you Tastentier,,,we must not let Islamic propaganda distort the gruesome truth.
  • jerry W123 2012/09/14 22:08:00
    So muslims do not obey Muhammad? I thought were to follow the teachings of their prophet.

    Out of his own mouth:

    Muhammad also endorsed it, as was narrated in the hadith of Umm ‘Atiyah, who used to circumcise girls. He said to her: “Reduce it, but do not remove too much, because it is more beautiful to behold and better for her husband.” He also said, “If you touch the two circumcisions, you must wash.” This shows that female circumcision was prevalent during his day, and he did not repudiate it. Nor did he stipulate anything else regarding female circumcision.

    Percentage of Muslims in African Countries:

    Morocco 99.9%
    Tunisia 99.8%
    Western Sahara 99.6%
    Mauritania 99.6%
    Niger 98.3%
    Algeria 98.2%
    Libya 96.6%
    Senega 95.9%
    Egypt 94.7%

    No muslims in Africa? Smoke another one.
  • W123 jerry 2012/09/14 22:14:14
    No he did not! I didnt find anything even similar to that in ARABIC how did you find that in english?!
    Oh dear. Look at wikipedia:Judaism requires circumcision for boys, but does not allow it for girls.[23] Islamic scholars have said that, while male circumcision is a sunna, or religious obligation, female genital modification is not required, and several have issued a fatwa against Type III FGM
  • Tastentier W123 2012/09/14 22:29:24
    There you go:

    والختان مشروع في حق الذكر والأنثى ، والصحيح أن ختان الذكور واجب وأنه من شعائر الإسلام ، وأن ختان النساء مستحب غير واجب .

    وقد جاء في السنة ما يدل على مشروعية الختان للنساء فقد كان في المدينة امرأة تختن فقال لها النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم : ( لا تنهكي ؛ فإن ذلك أحظى للمرأة وأحب إلى البعل ) رواه أبو داود ( 5271 ) وصححه الشيخ الألباني في " صحيح أبي داود " .

  • W123 Tastentier 2012/09/14 22:36:42
  • jerry W123 2012/09/14 22:41:41
    I guess we should ask the prophet?

    Or maybe the 140 MILLION girls and women, most of whom are too young to have a choice. I don't care about a couple of clerics that have denounced something that millions support. In cultures that require a woman to cover her face, walk ten steps behind her husband, receive no education, can be killed for adultry....do you think that they can't put a female under enough family or village pressure to force this gruesome procedure. By the way, the WHO (World Health Organization) is a good read...they call it a "violation of human rights".
  • W123 jerry 2012/09/15 07:51:21
    You know what, its obviuse your paranoid and hate ALL muslims so I'm pretty sure you'll still believe that no matter what.
  • jerry W123 2012/09/15 14:38:03
    I don't hate anyone. These are just facts that you are obviously at a loss to defend. I don't hate muslims, but I do hate some muslim practices. This grotesque practice is a practice decided by selfish males, to diminish or eliminate libido and pleasure in intimacy for the woman, AT BEST! At worst, it is painful, causes life-long psychological and physical trauma, and sometimes death. I don't care if your Chinese, American or a Martian. this is a reprehensible act and should be abolished.
  • W123 jerry 2012/09/15 18:34:56 (edited)
  • jerry W123 2012/09/15 19:24:35
    I'm glad your country is an exception...but where is the outcry? 140,000,000 girls and woman is not a couple people we heard about....it's MILLIONS. Why aren't Muslims holding Muslims accountable for this, for terrorism to innocent people and children around the world. Muslims don't "look" like the care what other Muslims do.
  • W123 jerry 2012/09/15 19:29:47
    hey we care, its just that I dont believe its performed now like the present day. TV shows once talked about this issue but they also said that its been YEARS for its ILLEGAL in most Middle Eastern countries.
    But again, the issue is this, mutilation of the organ is mainly related to culture not religion aparently some just connected these two to serve their own benefits. I really find it hard to believe it still exits today I asked a couple of my friends from Saudi they said who ever does that would have his child taken away 100 wipes and some jail time. But thats just weird. Because theres nothing about it recently. or even 5 years ago atleast.
  • jerry W123 2012/09/15 19:47:04
    You haven't answered the question...where is the outrage? Who is condemning it? Why do Muslims not want to be perceived as barbarians?

    Maybe Walaa, it's your job to make a difference. If you care.
  • W123 jerry 2012/09/15 19:50:57
    You see, there are no victims that spoke out. These sheikhs will be like wer saying our opinions, and there are private meetings that could possibly occur. So there basically is no solid evidence as I said its illegal. Thats why I'm surprised.
  • jerry W123 2012/09/15 22:34:49
    If enough people speak, things can change. I'm doing what I can from here, I hope you do what you can from there.
  • TasselLady jerry 2013/02/09 16:14:42
    I agree with that. It's a disgrace. Like I told another blogger above, it was men who decided that this should be done, not women. They were brainwashed by their culture to believe that this practice was "moral" and "proper". What a load of bull. I'm glad I'm not of those cultures. Thank the Lord I'm not!
  • Peace W123 2013/01/09 21:39:31
    I am 26 yr old muslim female living in middle east n today fr the first time i hear ths female circumcision... My brothers r circumcised but no females i kno r..... N who is umm atiyah???? Never heard of any hadith frm tht person....

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