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Fast and Furious: who are the most contemptible?

Temlakos~POTL~PWCM~JLA~☆ 2012/06/29 17:34:17
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Yesterday the House of Representatives cited Eric Holder, the
Attorney General, for contempt of Congress. They did this because he
refuses to let them see critical documents about Operation Fast and
Furious. This should have surprised no one. Republicans had the votes,
and even some Democrats agreed with them. But as contemptible as Eric
Holder has been, most House Democrats behaved even worse. They poured
contempt on themselves, the House, the memory of a dead federal agent,
and on the people’s liberties.


Fast and Furious Votes

The House voted twice to cite Holder, first for criminal contempt,
second for civil. This was no frivolous exercise. Technically, Rep.
Darrell Issa (R-CA) accuses Holder of a criminal act: withholding
information from Congress, information that he ought to let them see.
But Congress usually refers criminal contempt cases to the United States
Attorney for the District of Columbia. Eric Holder is that man’s boss.
He isn’t likely to investigate very far.


So in addition, the House cited him civilly as well. That lets the
House hire its own lawyer and take Holder before a judge. Now a judge
would ask to see the documents that Holder won’t show. If Holder doesn’t
show them to the judge, now he’s in contempt of court. If he
does, then maybe the American people will learn how much he knew about
Operation Fast and Furious while it went down, and how much he knew before and after Agent Brian Terry died in the line of duty.


Before the first vote took place, Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-TX) moved
to reprimand Chairman Issa. She said he has run a partisan
investigation and a “witch hunt.” The House voted her down. Democrats
then tried to refer the matter back to the House Oversight Committee;
the House voted that down, too.


To no one’s surprise, Republicans (all but two) voted
to cite Holder both times, and they had the votes alone. But rumors,
even before the votes, had several Democrats breaking ranks to vote to
cite Holder also. Break ranks they did, at least seventeen of them.


That’s when most of the House Democratic Caucus did the contemptible
thing. 110 of them got up and walked out of the House chamber.


Democrats apologize for Holder and Fast and Furious
Eric Holder pours contempt on Congress on Operation Fast and Furious

Eric Holder, Attorney General. Photo: US Department of Justice


The Congressional Black Caucus threatened
to do this the day before. When they did, Nancy Pelosi, the Democratic
Floor Leader, joined them. (Sixty-five Democrats stayed in the chamber
to cast “No” votes.) Outside, on the Capitol steps, Pelosi said:


Just when you think you have seen it all. Just when you
think they couldn’t possibly go any further over the edge, they come up
with something like this. What is happening here is shameful.


Pelosi seemed to have forgotten what the vote was all about:
Operation Fast and Furious, the thousands of guns that “walked” during
that operation, the deaths of two federal agents and 200 Mexican
nationals, and even Agent Terry’s name. (She probably needn’t feel too bad; White House Press Secretary Jay Carney couldn’t remember that name, either.)


Again to no one’s surprise, the White House condemned the contempt votes, too. The White House said several things, some obviously contrary to fact:


  • Operation Fast and Furious was nothing new; George W. Bush “walked”
    guns, too. (Not true. In the Bush days, the ATF bureau tracked those
    guns. Eric Holder’s ATF tracked almost none of them.)
  • Eric Holder stopped guns from walking. (He did, only after it started on this watch. Issa is trying to find out whether it started on Holder’s orders.)
  • Republicans prefer “political theater” to oversight. (This drama is
    political because it concerns a political question: should private
    citizens own or carry guns, or not? Eric Holder is on record saying that
    “we”—and who’s “we”?—have to “brainwash” people against guns.)

The White House seems to think that Chairman Issa’s goal is to bring
down the (putative) President himself. Issa has a much larger goal: to
find out how this government let gangsters get their hands on two automatic rifles and use them to kill two US LEOs and 200 Mexican civilians. And Issa should
seek to protect the Second Amendment against a putative President and
an Attorney General who want to abrogate it. And considering the kind of
Supreme Court we now have, that would be ridiculously easy. (Slap an
annual tax on every gun owner. Did not Chief Justice John Roberts say
that the power to tax has no limit?) Easy, that is, if the Democrats
controlled the House. They do not.


And that is the real reason why anyone in Congress is
investigating Operation Fast and Furious. In 2010, Republicans won
control of the House. Had this not happened, Ranking Member Elijah
Cummings (D-MD), as Chairman at Oversight, would have accepted Eric
Holder’s first letter saying that no such operation as Fast and Furious
exists or existed. That would have been the end of it. But that letter
wasn’t true. Holder had to take it back. That’s what those documents that Issa is after, are all about:


  1. Why did Holder say that no such operation as Fast and Furious exists or existed, when it did?
  2. When did he find out that Operation Fast and Furious did exist, and was as bad as Issa said?

And what does Nancy Pelosi (and Holder, too) mean by accusing
Republicans of “putting politics ahead of public safety”?
OnTheIssues.org tracks
three votes she cast. Those votes clearly show that she favors “gun
control.” The Pennsylvania Firearms Owners’ Association has more on her wants: stopping guns from crossing State lines, and a national gun registry. So when she speaks of public safety,
mightn’t she be talking about gun control? She is not on record as
saying this out loud, but nearly everyone in or out of Washington, DC
knows what she thinks. And that is: that no person, except a
law-enforcement officer, a military service member, or an official
bodyguard, ought ever to carry a gun.


But today, Holder surely knows that he and his friends have failed
completely to “brainwash people against guns.” After all, his boss is
“the best gun salesman in America today.” So he does not dare raise the real issue at the heart of Fast and Furious. And if he raised it confidentially with his boss,
the boss (i.e. Barack Obama) wouldn’t care to raise it, either, or have
anyone else raise it. Hence the claim of “executive privilege,” and
Holder’s consistent withholding of information.

What say you?

Who were the most contemptible players here? Holder? Obama? Pelosi? Issa? House Democrats? House Republicans? Everybody?

Read More: http://www.conservativenewsandviews.com/2012/06/29...

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Top Opinion

  • mal 2012/06/29 18:08:44
    Undecided
    mal
    +11
    If holder had nothing to hide for himself, obama , napolitano or any other conspirator he would show the documents.

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Opinions

  • ReconMarine~PWCM*AVA*BTTB*JLA* 2012/07/03 19:20:22
  • BILL 2012/06/30 22:36:51
  • Swampdog PWCM 2012/06/30 21:46:56
    Eric Holder
    Swampdog PWCM
    +3
    What ever they are hiding must be very damning!
  • ReconMa... Swampdo... 2012/07/03 19:21:11
  • Obama Failed Soda Head Chie... 2012/06/30 17:54:00 (edited)
    Any or all Democrats
    Obama Failed Soda Head Chief Opi
    +3
    CLAIM: Barack Obama, Eric Holder & Hillary Clinton publicly claim 90% of guns in Mexico come from U.S. Obama orders Holder to assess U.S. gun sales. The objective of Operation Fast & Furious was to substantiate these false claims, to enact stronger GUN CONTROL and attack Second Amendment rights



    find my new blog on this it lay it all out

    http://www.sodahead.com/unite...
  • ReconMa... Obama F... 2012/07/03 19:21:57
  • Space Invader 2012/06/30 17:49:25
    Eric Holder
    Space Invader
    +3
    He is a liar; today released correspondence from a "mole" inside DOJ revealed Holder lied several times to Congress...
    His boss is a lie; and Holder is caught in a 3 way cluster-F***; and he's the one getting ready to go to jail or out..
  • Diane Spraggs Yates 2012/06/30 17:29:45
    Any or all Democrats
    Diane Spraggs Yates
    +1
    Hard list Obama EO AG for not turning over papers and a man was killed the Family has rights to know what happened Watergate no one died look what the media and Dems do to get to the bottom Now they are blocking Now !!! Funny that the Family is not as important as a break in at the DNC !!!!!
  • BILL Diane S... 2012/06/30 22:42:58
  • Diane S... BILL 2012/06/30 23:09:12
    Diane Spraggs Yates
    +2
    All lefties and gobalist birds of a feather they stick together !!!!!
  • BILL Diane S... 2012/06/30 23:10:32
  • Max 2012/06/30 16:40:06
    Any or all Democrats
    Max
    +2
    If Issa doesn't stay on top of this and get to the bottom of it, he'll be included with those other contemptible politicians.

    I ran across this headline today, if anybody's interested:

    Obama Contributor, Who Helped Enact Assault-Weapons Ban, Ran ‘Fast and Furious’

    http://cnsnews.com/news/artic...
  • Lanikai 2012/06/30 16:18:39
    Nancy Pelosi
    Lanikai
    +2
    DAMN rolling screen.

    Obama and holder TIE for most contemptible Holder for being a lying, document hiding jerk, and obama for covering holders ass, while Terry's family gets NO resolution.

    SO far, these corrupt individuals have been allowed to thumb their nose at everyone. WE the People had better start speaking up.
  • ProudProgressive 2012/06/30 15:32:41
    Darrell Issa
    ProudProgressive
    +1
    This has been a stupid witch hunt from the start. The Right Wing has used the death of a brave ATF agent as an excuse to hatch conspiracy theories almost birtherish in their absurdity in a failed attempt to distract the public from their failure to lift a finger to help the American people and to hinder Eric Holder's efforts to protect the voting rights of millions of Americans. John Boehner went out of his way to schedule the vote at the moment he knew would have the least possible media coverage because even he knew that this would wind up just being another embarrassment to the Republican party just like the failed Clinton Impeachment Farce.

    Darrell Issa has abused his position as a Member of Congress and wasted the time and tax dollars of the American public on an empty witch hunt. He does not deserve to sit in our Congress.
  • Temlako... ProudPr... 2012/06/30 18:42:10
    Temlakos~POTL~PWCM~JLA~☆
    +2
    Do you, or do you not, wish to confiscate all guns from all persons except your favorite LEOs, the military, or the Secret Service?
  • BILL ProudPr... 2012/06/30 22:46:22
  • BackWoodsMike 2012/06/30 15:08:05
    Any or all Democrats
    BackWoodsMike
    +4
    Liberals believe that the murder of Brian Kerry is just an insignificant joke.. WE DON”T!



    http://honorbrianterry.com/ab...
    - - - -
    Our son didn't have to die.

    “...Unfortunately for our family and the families of others who have been injured or killed with these weapons, our son’s death has ballooned into a national controversy. Currently, the House Oversight Committee is moving forward with contempt proceedings against Eric Holder, the U.S. Attorney General and head of the Justice Department, for failing to comply with a congressional subpoena requesting all of his communications regarding Operation Fast and Furious. Our hope is that the Justice Department is not withholding information that could expose those who are responsible for our son’s death.

    It has been nearly eight months since Mr. Holder was served his subpoena, and we know little more now than we did then. We think our family and Brian’s memory deserve better.”

    -Kent Terry, Sr. and Josephine Terry
    http://honorbrianterry.com/ge...
    - - -

    QUOTE FROM AGENT BRIAN KERRY'S FAMILY:
    "Attorney General Eric Holder's refusal to fully disclose the documents associated with Operation Fast and Furious and President Obama's assertion of executive privilege serves to compound this tragedy. It denies the Terry family and the...



















    Liberals believe that the murder of Brian Kerry is just an insignificant joke.. WE DON”T!

    brianbanner

    http://honorbrianterry.com/ab...
    - - - -
    Our son didn't have to die.

    “...Unfortunately for our family and the families of others who have been injured or killed with these weapons, our son’s death has ballooned into a national controversy. Currently, the House Oversight Committee is moving forward with contempt proceedings against Eric Holder, the U.S. Attorney General and head of the Justice Department, for failing to comply with a congressional subpoena requesting all of his communications regarding Operation Fast and Furious. Our hope is that the Justice Department is not withholding information that could expose those who are responsible for our son’s death.

    It has been nearly eight months since Mr. Holder was served his subpoena, and we know little more now than we did then. We think our family and Brian’s memory deserve better.”

    -Kent Terry, Sr. and Josephine Terry
    http://honorbrianterry.com/ge...
    - - -

    QUOTE FROM AGENT BRIAN KERRY'S FAMILY:
    "Attorney General Eric Holder's refusal to fully disclose the documents associated with Operation Fast and Furious and President Obama's assertion of executive privilege serves to compound this tragedy. It denies the Terry family and the American people the truth. Our son, Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry, was killed by memebers of a Mexican drug cartel armed with weapons from this failed Justice Department guntrafficking investigation. For more than 18 months, we have been asking our federal government for justice and accountability. The documents sought by the House Oversight Committee and associated with Operation Fast and Furious should be produced and turned over to the Committee. Our son lost his life protecting this nation, and it is very disappointing that we are now faced with an administration that seems more concerned with protecting themselves rather than revealing the truth behind Operation Fast and Furious."

    -Kent Terry, Sr. and Josephine Terry
    - - - -

    Please Sign This petition if you are sick and tired of Holder's stone walling.
    - -
    As an American citizen concerned with the safety of those who defend United States borders and dismayed with the actions taken by the United States Department of Justice in the conception and investigation of the failed gun-trafficking exercise known as Operation Fast and Furious, I, undersigned, join with fellow Americans in petitioning the following:

    Whereas, sufficient border control is paramount to preserving national security as well as the fundamental rights and freedoms of Americans;

    Whereas, the complex issues surrounding border security and the dangers confronted by those who protect United States borders require increased public awareness;

    Whereas, the failed Operation Fast and Furious – conducted by Attorney General Eric Holder and the United States Department of Justice – resulted in the needless death of United States Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry and unnecessarily endangered the lives of many more who protect United States borders;

    And whereas, I believe a transparent government ran by the people is also accountable to those people, and thusly, expect those responsible for the conception and investigation of the failed Operation Fast and Furious to be held accountable;

    Therefore, I join the Brian Terry Foundation and its members in petitioning our nation’s leadership to never again repeat the mistakes that were made by the United States Department of Justice in the conception and investigation of Operation Fast and Furious.

    (SIGN HERE)
    http://honorbrianterry.com/ge...
    (more)
  • The Electrician 2012/06/30 14:01:01
    Undecided
    The Electrician
    +2
    Darrell Issa and his "kangaroo court" are in contempt of the Constitution.
  • Southern Man 2012/06/30 13:47:03
    Any or all Democrats
    Southern Man
    +5
    Sadly, it does not matter. Obama does not listen to the people and has no regard for the constitution. He just does what he wants and runs this country like his own little petting zoo...
  • LEFT IS... Souther... 2012/06/30 13:55:31
    LEFT IS NOT RIGHT
    +5
    He reminds me of the Honey Badger - Black and white like Obama too!

  • Souther... LEFT IS... 2012/06/30 14:12:30 (edited)
    Southern Man
    +5
    Right on ...
  • Steve King 2012/06/30 13:03:05
    Any or all Democrats
    Steve King
    +4
    Because they are playing Communist games with our safety with a complete disregard to the legal system in the USA.
  • eyes wide open 2012/06/30 12:59:24
    Barack H. Obama
    eyes wide open
    +3
    this started in a attempt to create a scandal, about guns across the boarder, remember all the news was how american guns were a big problem in Mexico .they want to get that so hyped up so the could enact more gun control. that's was the mission here . who would give thousands of ak 47 to any body ? wouldn't 500, be enough to track .i believe officer terry stumbled on to something he shouldn't have and was killed for it . the shear number of guns used is a clue as to their attempt to make a huge scandal .i believe this goes all the way to obama . holder is protecting him and the pres is protecting holder .but then i do not trust our govt. so i am just crazy.
  • BobbyOdd 2012/06/30 12:41:44
    Nancy Pelosi
    BobbyOdd
    +5
    the things she says are being said for no other reason than to reinforce the brain washing her constituents have received by watching and reading the "left" opinion.
  • jimmy BobbyOdd 2012/06/30 12:59:50
    jimmy
    +4
    anything that comes out of nancy pelosi mouth is crap just like the rest of her communist co-hearts. I don't know who i can't stand the most her or obamanut. There both idiots.
  • Hawkeye 2012/06/30 11:51:56
    All of the above
    Hawkeye
    +4
    EVERYTHING that has happened in the last 30 years or better has SCREAMED for the passage of TERM LIMITS in the COngress and the JUDICIARY..
  • ProudPr... Hawkeye 2012/06/30 15:36:08
    ProudProgressive
    +1
    For once, my Right Wing friend, I TOTALLY agree with you. I'm sure we would pick different examples, but the idea of unaccountable men and women in black robes deciding our fate for decades with no review and no constraints is hard to swallow, and with the election process the way it is many Congressmen are also in the midst of "lifetime appointments". Right now the average member of Congress spends more time trying to get re-elected than doing their job. That has to change if we are ever going to get anything done.
  • John "By God" American 2012/06/30 11:09:00
    All of the above
    John "By God" American
    +1
    DOJ is flat out refusing to do anything to Holder saying this isn't a criminal offense. So, Issa needs to indict him and give him 24 hrs to turn himself in. If he doesn't, he needs to have the US Marshals go get him. But, he won't because he's already hinting about doing something in Civil Court. Issa and Boehner are two of the biggest candy asses in Congress.
  • Hawkeye John "B... 2012/06/30 11:49:49
    Hawkeye
    +4
    By going to CIVIL Court they can get a Federal Judge to ORDER the DOJ to turn over the documents and even MORE importantly,, that COurt can RULE on the Legitimacy of the Executive Privilege.. The refusal of the DOJ to persue this was both predicted and therefore expected.. THIS is the normal course when dealing with claims of Executive Privilege..

    IF this administration continues to hide this evidence in the face of a Federal COurt Order,, then it WILL be possible for the U.S. Marshalls to secure a warrent from that SAME court and STORM the DOJ to ransack the entire place looking for them..

    The ONLY problem that I have here is that I would NOT put it past this admnistration to DESTROY all traces of those documents before these things can happen.. Democrats are capable of anything.. EVEN breaking IN to steal CLASSIFIED evidence of a Former President's Role in the actions,,or INACTIONS,, that lead up to the attacks on 9/11...
  • John "B... Hawkeye 2012/06/30 12:11:56
    John "By God" American
    +2
    They're obstructing justice, which for we the people, is a criminal offense. Why can't they be forced in criminal court?
  • Hawkeye John "B... 2012/06/30 13:04:10
    Hawkeye
    +2
    Of COURSE they are obstructing Justice but the DOJ is doing this under EXECUTIVE ORDERS from their President who KNOWS that as long as he can DELAY this beyond the elections,, he has a chance at re-election.. He's COUNTING on the Office to SHIELD him from any serious consequences believing,, RIGHTFULLY,, that there will be GREAT opposition against America prosecuting it's FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT of the United States for ANY reason..

    THESE people are SLICK.. Obama is being accused of LYING when he said that Obamacare won't raise taxes by ONE dime.. HE views this differently.. It will NOT raise taxes by one dime.. It'll DO so by thousands of dollars.. Ridiculously PETTY to us.. EXTREMELY important to the Democrats..

    You HAVE to watch these people.. MANY think that there's NO legitimate reason for those Democrats to walk out on the vote.. Well.. There IS one.. IF and when this blows UP and it turns out that THIS administration is DIRECTLY connected and therefore responsible for Fast and Furious.. THOSE Democrats do NOT want to be on the OFFICIAL RECORD as having voted to SUPPRESS the evidence..
  • John "B... Hawkeye 2012/06/30 14:46:58
    John "By God" American
    +2
    That's a very interesting perspective! But, what about them being forced to produce these documents in criminal court?
  • Hawkeye John "B... 2012/06/30 15:00:29
    Hawkeye
    +3
    By voting to hold Holder in Criminal Contempt of Congress,, the Congress is on record as making this a Criminal issue.. The problem THERE is that the Law Enforcement entity that would be called upon to enforce that is the DOJ itself and IT is under strict ORDERS by the president of the United States,, through the issuance of executive privilege,, to NOT do so.. So THERE we have a successful STONEWALL..

    However,, a Criminal case established BY that Criminal contempt charge MUST be made to open the door for the CIVIL case.. THIS is why there were TWO votes and the Criminal Citation was passed before the Civil one was.. And remember.. 17 DEMOCRATS voted for both of these COntempt Charges..

    Anyway.. the CIVIL Comtempt Charge opens the door for the CONGRESS to take this issue to court WITHOUT the co-operation of the administration or ANY of it's agencies.. IF the Civil Federal COurt rules that the executive privilege claim is invalid,, and THAT happens very often,, then that Judge can ORDER the release of those documents or he/she can order them to be REVIEWED by the convening judge him/herself..

    If Obama continues to act in defiance of the court which would be ILLEGAL even if NOTHING else was,, he's be opening a can of worms that not even the Democrats could protect him from..

    I said ...

    By voting to hold Holder in Criminal Contempt of Congress,, the Congress is on record as making this a Criminal issue.. The problem THERE is that the Law Enforcement entity that would be called upon to enforce that is the DOJ itself and IT is under strict ORDERS by the president of the United States,, through the issuance of executive privilege,, to NOT do so.. So THERE we have a successful STONEWALL..

    However,, a Criminal case established BY that Criminal contempt charge MUST be made to open the door for the CIVIL case.. THIS is why there were TWO votes and the Criminal Citation was passed before the Civil one was.. And remember.. 17 DEMOCRATS voted for both of these COntempt Charges..

    Anyway.. the CIVIL Comtempt Charge opens the door for the CONGRESS to take this issue to court WITHOUT the co-operation of the administration or ANY of it's agencies.. IF the Civil Federal COurt rules that the executive privilege claim is invalid,, and THAT happens very often,, then that Judge can ORDER the release of those documents or he/she can order them to be REVIEWED by the convening judge him/herself..

    If Obama continues to act in defiance of the court which would be ILLEGAL even if NOTHING else was,, he's be opening a can of worms that not even the Democrats could protect him from..

    I said this before.. Those Democrats who walked out on the vote DID so for a REASON.. This was NOT a simple matter of protesting a vote.. It's a matter of not taking PART in one..

    IF the worst happens and Obama/Holder goes DOWN,, THESE Democrats don't want to be on record as having VOTED for the suppression of evidence..
    (more)
  • John "B... Hawkeye 2012/06/30 15:25:34
    John "By God" American
    +1
    Thank you for explaining that. I guess time is of the essence. I hope Issa gets off his butt and gets going on this...
  • Lanikai John "B... 2012/06/30 16:20:13
    Lanikai
    +1
    Holder RUNS the DOJ that would have to indict him.

    Do you see the problem there?
  • ProudPr... Hawkeye 2012/06/30 15:37:33
    ProudProgressive
    +1
    Yes, but if they go to Civil Court they would have to provide some actual EVIDENCE to support their claims, and since there isn't any, they will just wind up with another genuine Australian Kenyan birth certificate and additional egg on their faces.
  • Hawkeye ProudPr... 2012/06/30 16:44:17
    Hawkeye
    The court would be FREE to ORDER the release of those documents particularly if the executive privilege is over ruled.. The privilege IS likely to BE over ruled because the courts have consistantly held that Executive Privilege CANNOT be used to withold evidence of a crime and Fast and Furious ITSELF was a CRIME even if NO ONE died.. The arming of an international Criminal Organization IS a Crime..

    The Documents WILL be released sooner or later..
  • ProudPr... Hawkeye 2012/06/30 16:51:28
    ProudProgressive
    Fast and Furious was a poorly planned and poorly executed operation, but it was not a crime. And that's the point. There is no criminal activity involved in this operation, and Issa's entire witch hunt is based on the false premise that there is.
  • Hawkeye ProudPr... 2012/06/30 17:02:26
    Hawkeye
    Supplying guns to a criminal organization within the Sovereign territory of a foreign ALLIED nation without it's permission,, or even it's notification,, IS a CRIME As are the murders associated with that action..

    It's ALWAYS a witch hunt when Democrats are on the line.. ALWAYS.. You Left Wingers are quite satisfied to tell the family of Brian Terry to go get F@%Ked before you'll admit that YOUR precious little Savior of Mankind MIGHT have done something wrong..

    I'm SURE that Charlie Manson thought that the charges brought against HIM were a witch hunt as well..

    This is NOT going away.. It's NOT going to disappear like the evidence has so far..

    the LONGER Obama holds out the worse it's going to get for him AND Holder and MARK MY WORDS.. The ONLY thing that could POSSIBLY be worse then what's coming down the line for Obama,, politically speaking,, is the WORLD finding out that this Nobel Peace Prize winner is PERSONALY responsible for the deaths of HUNDREDS and ALL for NO other reason then to PUSH his Anti Gun Agenda..
  • ProudPr... Hawkeye 2012/06/30 17:11:27
    ProudProgressive
    Oh come on, Hawk. We've sparred often enough that I know you're not nearly as delusional as most of your fellow conservatives. If you honestly believe that President Obama personally devised a plan to let a thousand guns cross the border and wind up killing an ATF agent just to scare people into voting for gun regulations, then I think you've lost the last shred of perspective you had. How exactly did President Obama manage this when Fast and Furious was conceived by the Bush Administration, written by Alberto Gonzales, and already scheduled to be implemented in the second half of 2009 before President Obama even took office? Is he so maniacal that he actually controlled the Bush Administration??

    And by the way, the Right Wing handed President Obama the perfect opportunity to push a gun control agenda when they talked Jared Loughner into shooting a Member of Congress in the head. The simple fact that even with that he hasn't "taken everyone's guns away" should clue you in that this nonsensical conspiracy delusion is almost birtherish in its absurdity.

    You and I agree, I think, that Fast and Furious ultimately was a tragedy. And I think we would also agree that we should all work to make sure that something like this never happens again. But does it really make sense to you to spend our time trying to find someone to crucify for it instead of simply moving forward to ensure better procedures for the future?

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