Quantcast

Fast and furious began under...Bush?

Temlakos~POTL~PWCM~JLA~☆ 2012/07/09 22:14:30
You!
Add Photos & Videos

Everyone should expect Attorney General Eric Holder to fudge the
truth about Operation Fast and Furious. After all, two American
law-enforcement officers, and 300 Mexican civilians, have died as a
result. But every time Eric Holder opens his mouth about Fast and
Furious, he lies. He says that “gun walking” started during the Bush
administration. That’s a lie. And also that he stopped a Bush
administration program when it got out of hand. That’s another lie.


Fast and Furious v. Wide Receiver

Operation Wide Receiver sounds like a metaphor from American football. It isn’t. The word receiver, in the gun law lexicon, means the main part of any firearm. This part receives all the other parts of a gun. Technically, the receiver is the “gun” when the goal is to count any number of guns.


These three reports
describe Operation Wide Receiver and how it differed from Operation
Fast and Furious. In Wide Receiver, agents of the Bureau of Alcohol,
Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE, or ATF) would first put a
tracking device into a gun, and then ask a dealer to sell it to a straw
buyer. ATF planned to follow each gun from the store to the real buyer,
the one who sent the straw buyer to pick it up. From start to finish,
ATF told their counterparts in Mexico what they were doing.


Wide Receiver failed early. The three linked reports give several reasons:


  • Whoever inserted some of the tracking devices into the guns, did a
    poor job. He bent the antennas, so that their signals could not go very
    far.
  • The batteries on some of the tracking devices died. So those devices could send no signal at all.
  • Some straw buyers “sniffed out” the devices and removed them en route.
  • Other straw buyers played games with the ATF. One favorite trick: to
    drive in circles until the plane the ATF had following the signals, was
    out of fuel and had to return to base.

ATF might have lost 300 guns in Wide Receiver. So they shut the program down in 2007. That was two years before Eric Holder even became
Attorney General. So if he shut down a Bush Administration program,
then he has a power that no earlier Attorney General ever had: time
travel.


Fast and Furious began in 2009. And ATF never bothered to
put tracking devices on any guns. They told gun dealers to sell as many
as 2000 guns overall. Some of them were the kinds of guns that no gun
dealer would dare carry (like the AK-47). And they never told the government of Mexico anything about it. (Mexican authorities are so angry that they are now investigating on their own.)
ATF have lost 1400 of those 2000 guns. The rest, ATF and Mexican agents
have recovered from crime scenes. ATF recovered two at a scene in this
country, where Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry died in the line of duty.
Only then did ATF shut down Fast and Furious.

What about you? Do you believe Eric Holder when he says he shut down an operation that went back to the Bush administration? Or is he playing fast and loose with the facts?

Read More: http://www.conservativenewsandviews.com/2012/07/09...

Add a comment above

Top Opinion

  • Striker 2012/07/09 22:26:20
    Holder is lying: gun-walking started on his watch.
    Striker
    +15
    A bit of good news today, the D.C. Bar is challenging Holder's law license

Sort By
  • Most Raves
  • Least Raves
  • Oldest
  • Newest
Opinions

  • Seonag 2012/07/10 14:31:37
    Holder is lying: gun-walking started on his watch.
    Seonag
    +4
    Though Bush's administration did have a program where they worked with the Mexican government and guns were tagged, they stopped it because it was not working. Fast and Furious started in 2009 to back up the allegations of Obama and the Mexican President that most guns the drug cartels have came from the US, ignoring the Russian guns that these guys are using.
  • voice_matters 2012/07/10 14:11:06
    Undecided
    voice_matters
    wide receiver is the program under bush. the guns in that program had tracking chips placed in them so they knew exactly where they were at all times
  • mich52 2012/07/10 13:54:53 (edited)
    Holder is telling the truth: gun-walking started with Bush.
    mich52
    +1
    Gun-walking was created by Bush's DOJ you can only spin lies so many times.. I love this statement..
    "Some of them were the kinds of guns that no gun dealer would dare carry (like the AK-47)."
    Every gun dealer I've ever gone to has had AK-47's or clones of them. That statement is a flat out lie..
  • Grandpa 2012/07/10 13:53:10 (edited)
    Holder is lying: gun-walking started on his watch.
    Grandpa
    +5
    And the Media gives him a Pass >> Why is take ???? He should be in JAIL >>> Another kick the can down the road till after the election >>> Federal Marshall should have taken him back to his office after the frist refusal and taken the files by supeona >> Please vote wise in 2012
  • twocrows 2012/07/10 13:11:05 (edited)
    Holder is telling the truth: gun-walking started with Bush.
    twocrows
    +1
    get this: this president who has done nothing to strengthen gun control - - who has, in fact, relaxed the gun laws everywhere, hatched this plot in order to take people's guns away. but this Congress is just too smart for him! they see that his relaxing of the gun laws is just a ploy to - - - COME FOR YOUR GUNS!!!!!
    BE AFRAID! BE VERY AFRAID!
    uh huh.

    and meanwhile, Congress once again steers peoples' minds away from the fact that they're doing everything they can to keep the economy in the tank in order to make Obama a one-term president - - and if they people suffer while they commit themselves to that one goal well - - it's too bad for them, isn't it?

    and just one more thing: those of you who are screaming for Holder's head are saying you want the Federal government to arrest people for making legal gun sales:
    so what if a person assures the original seller that he's buying these 50 guns for his own use and then sells them in the parking lot? hey! he could have changed his mind!
    that's how this law works. to then arrest the person who sold those guns and to confiscate the guns would be illegal.
  • 4570GOVT twocrows 2012/08/17 19:33:13
    4570GOVT
    since day one, the Obama administration has been looking for a way to restrict our Second Amendment rights.

    “Fast & Furious” was concocted to be a public relations ploy intended to convince the American people that Congress had to pass new gun restrictions and the UN “Small Arms Treaty” through the U.S. Senate.
  • Ozzyboy 2012/07/10 13:10:39
    Holder is lying: gun-walking started on his watch.
    Ozzyboy
    +4
    You have two different issues here. You ask if fast and furious was started under Bush. It wasn't. Then your choices are whether gun walking was started under Bush or Holder. I chose to answer first question. F&F; was Holder's baby. Wide Receiver was Bush's. The other bloggers are correct about the rest of the details. The Mexican government knew about WR and it was shut down because it didn't work. 0 & Holder started up F&F; secretively and are now, after how many deaths, trying to keep the details from seeing the light of day. They are a couple of crooks who have blood on their hands. No amount of deflection or distraction will ever change that.
  • Sissum71*AFCL* 2012/07/10 12:21:37
    Holder is telling the truth: gun-walking started with Bush.
    Sissum71*AFCL*
    +2
    Operation Wide Receiver 2006-2007 - was done with the knowledge and cooperation with the Mexican authorities and the 450 firearms were equipped with chips for monitoring and all were accounted for and collected. No deaths. Operation Fire & furious - 2009-2010 with done without the knowledge of the Mexican authorities and over 2,000 firearms were released without any kind of monitoring and over 1200 are still unaccounted for....100's of Mexicans and 2 Americans were killed by them to the best of our knowledge.

    (This sums it up by Nana)
    You know, all you have to do is look it up! Yes, Bush started gunwaking WITH the consent of Mexico. Holder did not get the consent of Mexico, did not track the weapons and people DIED! Huge difference!!
  • Stacy F Sissum7... 2012/07/10 15:16:10
    Stacy F
    +2
    Well said.
  • Cleaver62 2012/07/10 12:04:07
    Holder is telling the truth: gun-walking started with Bush.
    Cleaver62
    +2
    Very similar programs. It is all a smoke screen to keep Holder from doing his job. Another racist move by Republicans in Congress.
  • Stacy F Cleaver62 2012/07/10 15:16:44
  • Cleaver62 Stacy F 2012/07/10 15:32:19
  • Stacy F Cleaver62 2012/07/10 15:49:24
  • Cleaver62 Stacy F 2012/07/10 18:13:04
    Cleaver62
    +1
    The last time I heard, neither Afghanastan or Iraq attacked the US. It was a small group of terrorists called the Taliban. We went in and laid waist to both of their countries. Thank you for your service and I am glad you came home in one piece. But for me the war was against a small group of people not any countries.
  • Stacy F Cleaver62 2012/07/10 20:28:23
    Stacy F
    +3
    Actually, it was al-Qaeda, being supported, and harbored, by the Taliban, in Afghanistan.
    Sorry, sometime's I get a little... passionate, about 9/11.
    My apologies.
  • 4570GOVT Stacy F 2012/08/17 19:34:14
    4570GOVT
    +1
    The report confirmed that American ICE agent Jaime Zapata was killed with a weapon smuggled through the Operation “Fast & Furious” program.

    But that’s not all the report uncovered.

    Information was revealed that Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer, who is one of Eric Holder’s right-hand men at the Justice Department, told Holder about the “Fast & Furious”-related programs in an August 19, 2009 memo.

    Of course, as I have previously written, Holder has on a number of occasions said under oath that he has no knowledge of “Fast & Furious” until well into 2010.

    With all the focus on this specific operation and Eric Holder, I would be remiss if I didn't mention that since day one, the Obama administration has been looking for a way to restrict our Second Amendment rights.

    “Fast & Furious” was concocted to be a public relations ploy intended to convince the American people that Congress had to pass new gun restrictions and the UN “Small Arms Treaty” through the U.S. Senate.
  • Stacy F 4570GOVT 2012/08/22 06:05:43
    Stacy F
    +2
    Well said!
  • David (oYo) 2012/07/10 11:45:07
    Undecided
    David (oYo)
    Leave Noddy Holder out of it.
  • The Electrician 2012/07/10 11:00:16
    Holder is telling the truth: gun-walking started with Bush.
    The Electrician
    +1
    From the replies, I'd say this wasn't a good question, it started a "Hate Fest." How is possible for that many people to be SO stupid and continue to defend SO much stupidity.
  • Defend ... The Ele... 2012/07/10 12:06:28
    Defend Western Civlization
    +4
    truth is not hate
  • Tom Degan 2012/07/10 10:56:41
    Holder is telling the truth: gun-walking started with Bush.
    Tom Degan
    +3
    GET THIS! Barack Obama and Eric Holder (two dark-skinned guys) concocted a scheme that would have forced good white people everywhere to voluntarily give up their guns. The plan was to run MILLIONS of weapons into Mexico. The spread of violence as a result of all those firearms would surely spill over across the border onto American streets - resulting in the countless murders of innocent white children with red hair and freckles and names like "Rusty" and "Muffie". The result of the carnage would force the American people to demand a ban on all guns. It's an evil, liberal plot, you know.

    The world has gone mad today
    And good's bad today
    And black's white today
    And day's night today

    -Cole Porter

    This is the story that the Republicans are putting out there. The NRA and FOX Noise are also are also holding onto this fiction for dear life - with faces as straight as a warehouse full of two-by-fours. Congressman Darrell Issa has called Obama's "the most corrupt administration in American history". Where the hell was this guy between the years 2001 and 2009? Good's bad today. Day's night today.

    http://www.tomdegan.blogspot.com

    Tom Degan

    Tom Degan
  • Defend ... Tom Degan 2012/07/10 12:07:44
    Defend Western Civlization
    +4
    i see more RACE BAITING from a ANTI SEMITE liberal progressive Canadian
    you have no clue
  • twocrows Defend ... 2012/07/10 13:25:57
    twocrows
    +1
    I see, in a reply to another person that you claimed this post is not about hate.

    then you said this.
  • mich52 twocrows 2012/07/10 14:03:27
    mich52
    Nice bitch slap..
  • Stacy F mich52 2012/07/10 15:19:20
    Stacy F
    +1
    How does your face feel after that "bitch slap"?
  • mich52 Stacy F 2012/07/10 19:38:35
    mich52
    You must be having delusions again... Run along and troll someone else...
  • Defend ... mich52 2012/07/11 00:46:06
    Defend Western Civlization
    +3
    the only trolls is obama and Nazi Peloxi
  • Defend ... twocrows 2012/07/11 00:41:22
    Defend Western Civlization
    +3
    i only spoke the truth
    truth is not hate
  • Spizzzo BN-0 2012/07/10 10:52:34
    Undecided
    Spizzzo BN-0
    +5
    Keep in mind that those who oppose what went on in Fast and Furious are asking for the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT to arrest people making legal gun sales.
  • Radlad 2012/07/10 10:34:52
    Undecided
    Radlad
    +1
    Not undecided just thought I'd throw a few facts into the mix. Under dubya's watch it was called "wide receiver". The guns had tracking chips planted in them. The weren't very many guns involved but when the bad guys discovered the chips and began pulling them out. The operation was cancelled. Plus both the state and mexican governments were informed of the operation.

    obama probably gave the order for "fast and furious" and was well advised about it. I've no proof of that but it is my opinion. Thousands of weapons went south of the border with no way of keeping tabs or tracking them and no one was aware of anything going on outside of obama's little circle of friends
  • jmc07806-PWCM-JLA 2012/07/10 10:07:14
    Holder is lying: gun-walking started on his watch.
    jmc07806-PWCM-JLA
    +3
    The Gun walking without tracing started with Holder and Obama.
  • 4570GOVT jmc0780... 2012/08/17 19:36:27
    4570GOVT
    +2
    since day one, the Obama administration has been looking for a way to restrict our Second Amendment rights.

    “Fast & Furious” was concocted to be a public relations ploy intended to convince the American people that Congress had to pass new gun restrictions and the UN “Small Arms Treaty” through the U.S. Senate.
  • The Birdman 2012/07/10 10:00:34
    Holder is lying: gun-walking started on his watch.
    The Birdman
    +3
    We all know that Holder and his boss are advocating the subversion of the second amendment at any and all costs, and the lies to cover it all up are the reason we can't get to the real truth from this administration! Hell, july 27th O-Dumbass is making another end-run around the 2nd amendmaent with the UN Treaty! His true stand on guns and how badly he wants them out of the hands of law abiding citizens is the absolute ONLY thing TRANSPARENT in his entire administration!
  • 4570GOVT The Bir... 2012/08/17 19:37:02
    4570GOVT
    +1
    since day one, the Obama administration has been looking for a way to restrict our Second Amendment rights.

    “Fast & Furious” was concocted to be a public relations ploy intended to convince the American people that Congress had to pass new gun restrictions and the UN “Small Arms Treaty” through the U.S. Senate.
  • The Bir... 4570GOVT 2012/08/18 05:56:27
    The Birdman
    +3
    Good thing enough Senators got the message from all the petitions I signed and put the ATT treaty down for now! But gun rights are still not safe until we take out the trash in November!!
  • 4570GOVT The Bir... 2012/08/18 17:01:20
    4570GOVT
    +3
    AMEN !
  • littlebuffalo55TBA 2012/07/10 08:44:42 (edited)
    Holder is lying: gun-walking started on his watch.
    littlebuffalo55TBA
    +3
    He's a Putz and screwed up! It's really that simple! Lol...still after 3 1/2 + yeRS IT'S THE OLE "Bush did it" gag!
  • Super_Doodles 2012/07/10 08:38:37
    Holder is lying: gun-walking started on his watch.
    Super_Doodles
    +2
    Gun tracing under the Bush administration, gun walking under the Obama administration. The upsetting part is that Holder grossly misplayed his hand. The very upsetting part is that so many people are now dead because of this. If Mexico wasn't so dependent on us I'm sure we would be at war right now
  • lady_c5_loadmaster 2012/07/10 07:18:26
    Undecided
    lady_c5_loadmaster
    +4
    Bush started a gun tracking program in conjunction with Mexican authorities to track drug cartel leaders. After it did not work he discontinued it in 2007.

    Fast and Furious got started under Obama in Oct 2009 without the Mexican authorities being notified in an attempt to get American citizens to agree to stricter gun laws (killing our 2nd Amendment rights).
  • 4570GOVT lady_c5... 2012/08/17 19:38:04
    4570GOVT
    +1
    The report confirmed that American ICE agent Jaime Zapata was killed with a weapon smuggled through the Operation “Fast & Furious” program.

    But that’s not all the report uncovered.

    Information was revealed that Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer, who is one of Eric Holder’s right-hand men at the Justice Department, told Holder about the “Fast & Furious”-related programs in an August 19, 2009 memo.

    Of course, as I have previously written, Holder has on a number of occasions said under oath that he has no knowledge of “Fast & Furious” until well into 2010.

    With all the focus on this specific operation and Eric Holder, I would be remiss if I didn't mention that since day one, the Obama administration has been looking for a way to restrict our Second Amendment rights.

    “Fast & Furious” was concocted to be a public relations ploy intended to convince the American people that Congress had to pass new gun restrictions and the UN “Small Arms Treaty” through the U.S. Senate.

See Votes by State

The map above displays the winning answer by region.

News & Politics

2013/05/22 00:21:22

Hot Questions on SodaHead
More Hot Questions

More Community More Originals