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Fast and furious began under...Bush?

Temlakos~POTL~PWCM~JLA~☆ 2012/07/09 22:14:30
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Everyone should expect Attorney General Eric Holder to fudge the
truth about Operation Fast and Furious. After all, two American
law-enforcement officers, and 300 Mexican civilians, have died as a
result. But every time Eric Holder opens his mouth about Fast and
Furious, he lies. He says that “gun walking” started during the Bush
administration. That’s a lie. And also that he stopped a Bush
administration program when it got out of hand. That’s another lie.


Fast and Furious v. Wide Receiver

Operation Wide Receiver sounds like a metaphor from American football. It isn’t. The word receiver, in the gun law lexicon, means the main part of any firearm. This part receives all the other parts of a gun. Technically, the receiver is the “gun” when the goal is to count any number of guns.


These three reports
describe Operation Wide Receiver and how it differed from Operation
Fast and Furious. In Wide Receiver, agents of the Bureau of Alcohol,
Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE, or ATF) would first put a
tracking device into a gun, and then ask a dealer to sell it to a straw
buyer. ATF planned to follow each gun from the store to the real buyer,
the one who sent the straw buyer to pick it up. From start to finish,
ATF told their counterparts in Mexico what they were doing.


Wide Receiver failed early. The three linked reports give several reasons:


  • Whoever inserted some of the tracking devices into the guns, did a
    poor job. He bent the antennas, so that their signals could not go very
    far.
  • The batteries on some of the tracking devices died. So those devices could send no signal at all.
  • Some straw buyers “sniffed out” the devices and removed them en route.
  • Other straw buyers played games with the ATF. One favorite trick: to
    drive in circles until the plane the ATF had following the signals, was
    out of fuel and had to return to base.

ATF might have lost 300 guns in Wide Receiver. So they shut the program down in 2007. That was two years before Eric Holder even became
Attorney General. So if he shut down a Bush Administration program,
then he has a power that no earlier Attorney General ever had: time
travel.


Fast and Furious began in 2009. And ATF never bothered to
put tracking devices on any guns. They told gun dealers to sell as many
as 2000 guns overall. Some of them were the kinds of guns that no gun
dealer would dare carry (like the AK-47). And they never told the government of Mexico anything about it. (Mexican authorities are so angry that they are now investigating on their own.)
ATF have lost 1400 of those 2000 guns. The rest, ATF and Mexican agents
have recovered from crime scenes. ATF recovered two at a scene in this
country, where Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry died in the line of duty.
Only then did ATF shut down Fast and Furious.

What about you? Do you believe Eric Holder when he says he shut down an operation that went back to the Bush administration? Or is he playing fast and loose with the facts?

Read More: http://www.conservativenewsandviews.com/2012/07/09...

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Top Opinion

  • Striker 2012/07/09 22:26:20
    Holder is lying: gun-walking started on his watch.
    Striker
    +15
    A bit of good news today, the D.C. Bar is challenging Holder's law license

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  • 4570GOVT 2012/08/17 19:26:20
    Holder is lying: gun-walking started on his watch.
    4570GOVT
    +1
    The report confirmed that American ICE agent Jaime Zapata was killed with a weapon smuggled through the Operation “Fast & Furious” program.

    But that’s not all the report uncovered.

    Information was revealed that Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer, who is one of Eric Holder’s right-hand men at the Justice Department, told Holder about the “Fast & Furious”-related programs in an August 19, 2009 memo.

    Of course, as I have previously written, Holder has on a number of occasions said under oath that he has no knowledge of “Fast & Furious” until well into 2010.

    With all the focus on this specific operation and Eric Holder, I would be remiss if I didn't mention that since day one, the Obama administration has been looking for a way to restrict our Second Amendment rights.

    “Fast & Furious” was concocted to be a public relations ploy intended to convince the American people that Congress had to pass new gun restrictions and the UN “Small Arms Treaty” through the U.S. Senate.
  • Hopscotch 2012/07/14 18:42:46
    Holder is telling the truth: gun-walking started with Bush.
    Hopscotch
    The truth is the truth.......it's a documented fact. http://baltimorepostexaminer....

    truth truth documented httpbaltimorepostexaminer
  • fudge35 2012/07/11 22:16:38
    Holder is telling the truth: gun-walking started with Bush.
    fudge35
    It's the truth, but it was under a different name. So because it was under a different name, the right wing seems to think it doesn't count. Of course they want to ignore it so they can blame Obama. But when has the right wing ever been sincere. Not in my life time!!!!
  • ScottyG - Faqueue 2012/07/11 20:16:40
    Holder is telling the truth: gun-walking started with Bush.
    ScottyG - Faqueue
    +2
    But they were clearly 2 different programs. Wide receiver was terminated by the ATF. They even said "never again" for a program of this type.

    F&F; was revived under Obie/WithHolder as a program designed in advance to fail and be used to ban weapons in America.

    The plan much like Obie/WithHolder was a total and epic failure.
  • 4570GOVT ScottyG... 2012/08/17 19:27:48
    4570GOVT
    +1
    .

    Information was revealed that Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer, who is one of Eric Holder’s right-hand men at the Justice Department, told Holder about the “Fast & Furious”-related programs in an August 19, 2009 memo.

    Of course, as I have previously written, Holder has on a number of occasions said under oath that he has no knowledge of “Fast & Furious” until well into 2010.

    With all the focus on this specific operation and Eric Holder, I would be remiss if I didn't mention that since day one, the Obama administration has been looking for a way to restrict our Second Amendment rights.

    “Fast & Furious” was concocted to be a public relations ploy intended to convince the American people that Congress had to pass new gun restrictions and the UN “Small Arms Treaty” through the U.S. Senate.
  • Patric 2012/07/11 17:37:26
    Holder is lying: gun-walking started on his watch.
    Patric
    +2
    when in doubt , when in a corner , when caught ... what do you do ?

    blame Mr. Bush, damn , worked for obomma for 3 years.. , damn got him elected ..
  • firelooker 2012/07/11 17:27:52
    Holder is lying: gun-walking started on his watch.
    firelooker
    +2
    Holder has a record of lying, way back before he became AG he was accused of witholding and covering up things.
  • Josh Robinson 2012/07/11 15:49:41
    Undecided
    Josh Robinson
    +1
    There is a list of things that the globalists try and get each president to pass. They elect for us the presidents they believe can get their control methods passed.
  • Kat 2012/07/11 14:54:08 (edited)
    Holder is telling the truth: gun-walking started with Bush.
    Kat
    +3
    wide receiver bush
    click to enlarge
  • teigan 2012/07/11 00:01:41
    Holder is lying: gun-walking started on his watch.
    teigan
    +4
    Just like Obama, if his lips are moving he is lying. Bush's program was in conjuction with the Mexican Government. This program ended in 2007. No Holder, this is all yours you pathetic liar.
  • Mr.Hoodz the Truth Troll 2012/07/10 21:50:42
    Holder is telling the truth: gun-walking started with Bush.
    Mr.Hoodz the Truth Troll
    Started with Bush and continued under Obama. Both are criminals.
  • teigan Mr.Hood... 2012/07/10 23:56:14
    teigan
    +5
    Bush's program with the Mexican Government ended in 2007. Kinda hard to continue a program that has been ended.
  • Mr.Hood... teigan 2012/07/11 00:09:41
    Mr.Hoodz the Truth Troll
    Who cares if it ended. Both were shipping guns to mexico that killed people. Both are criminals.
  • teigan Mr.Hood... 2012/07/11 00:43:03
    teigan
    +4
    One was working with the Mexican Government, one failed to even notify the Mexican Government. One had a breakdown on the Mexican side of the border and decided to end it, one only stopped when Americans were outraged over a border patrol agent death. For Holder to say that Fast and Furious was Bush's is an outright lie.
  • Mr.Hood... teigan 2012/07/11 00:58:33
    Mr.Hoodz the Truth Troll
    +1
    Maybe but they are both still criminals.
  • teigan Mr.Hood... 2012/07/11 04:12:42
    teigan
    +4
    Holders the subject here and Holder lied, right?
  • Mr.Hood... teigan 2012/07/11 11:55:04
    Mr.Hoodz the Truth Troll
    +1
    That is correct. I have no favorites here. They are all criminals to me.
  • 4570GOVT teigan 2012/08/17 19:29:28
    4570GOVT
    +2
    With all the focus on this specific operation and Eric Holder, I would be remiss if I didn't mention that since day one, the Obama administration has been looking for a way to restrict our Second Amendment rights.

    “Fast & Furious” was concocted to be a public relations ploy intended to convince the American people that Congress had to pass new gun restrictions and the UN “Small Arms Treaty” through the U.S. Senate.
  • teigan 4570GOVT 2012/08/22 03:07:10
    teigan
    +2
    I agree.
  • V~POTL~PWCM~JLA 2012/07/10 20:39:33
    Holder is lying: gun-walking started on his watch.
    V~POTL~PWCM~JLA
    +5
    Gun-walking restarted on Holder's watch. Unlike Wide Receiver that included tracking devices to try and track the guns, Holder's "Fast and Furious" program had no possible way to track anything.

    The only possible conclusion is that "Fast and Furious" was designed to facilitate gun violence, to facilitate a regulatory "solution" to a self-induced problem. This means we are dealing with a totally out-of-control regime in Washington. It also means that the BATF is useless in regulating the distribution of firearms, since they are already known to be aiding and abetting criminals.

    Congress needs to take the next steps with the contempt case against Holder.
  • firelooker V~POTL~... 2012/07/11 17:31:33
    firelooker
    +2
    This is the way the left operates they create a problem then try to solve it w./ big gov't so they look like they're trying to do something.
  • V~POTL~... firelooker 2012/07/11 17:45:55
    V~POTL~PWCM~JLA
    +1
    Yes, and this time they got caught. This looks like a part of Obama's hidden agenda for gun control. Another piece of the puzzle is the UN treaty. And then there this little gem of UN overreach: The Global Poverty Act. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    Part of the Global Poverty Act is gun control. Guess who tried and failed to transfer sovereignty to the UN back in 2007?

    S.2433
    Latest Title: Global Poverty Act of 2007
    Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack [IL] (introduced 12/7/2007) Cosponsors (30)
    Related Bills: H.R.1302
    Latest Major Action: 4/24/2008 Placed on Senate Legislative Calendar under General Orders. Calendar No. 718.
    Senate Reports: 110-331

    The Global Poverty Act is very interesting legislation. It's one of the few things Obama did in the Senate, other than voting "present".
  • 4570GOVT V~POTL~... 2012/08/17 19:30:01
    4570GOVT
    +2
    The report confirmed that American ICE agent Jaime Zapata was killed with a weapon smuggled through the Operation “Fast & Furious” program.

    But that’s not all the report uncovered.

    Information was revealed that Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer, who is one of Eric Holder’s right-hand men at the Justice Department, told Holder about the “Fast & Furious”-related programs in an August 19, 2009 memo.

    Of course, as I have previously written, Holder has on a number of occasions said under oath that he has no knowledge of “Fast & Furious” until well into 2010.

    With all the focus on this specific operation and Eric Holder, I would be remiss if I didn't mention that since day one, the Obama administration has been looking for a way to restrict our Second Amendment rights.

    “Fast & Furious” was concocted to be a public relations ploy intended to convince the American people that Congress had to pass new gun restrictions and the UN “Small Arms Treaty” through the U.S. Senate.
  • Cal 2012/07/10 20:25:11
    Holder is lying: gun-walking started on his watch.
    Cal
    +4
    The Blame Bush argument holds exactly 0% credibility with America anymore. No we don't believe it.
  • Mr Bob 2012/07/10 19:34:54
    Holder is lying: gun-walking started on his watch.
    Mr Bob
    +4
    Of course he's going to blame Bush. He learned that from his sugar daddy, Oblahblah.
  • Pm 2012/07/10 19:08:30
    Undecided
    Pm
    +2
    Two separate programs. Gun walking wasnt started under Bush. It's a older tactic.
  • ETpro 2012/07/10 18:27:22
    Holder is telling the truth: gun-walking started with Bush.
    ETpro
    +1
    The righties just deny it by pointing to the fact that the ATF changed the name of the operation after Obama was elected. Never mind that if names make things what they claim then North Korea is a democracy with a republican form of government, because they call themselves the Peoples Democratic Republic of North Korea.

    What something actually DOES; in this case, gun walking; is what makes it what it is. And yes, gun walking started way back in 2005.
  • teigan ETpro 2012/07/10 23:57:48
    teigan
    +4
    Wide receiver started in 2006 and ended in 2007. Fast and Furious is it's own program.
  • 4570GOVT ETpro 2012/08/17 19:31:02
    4570GOVT
    +1
    .

    Information was revealed that Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer, who is one of Eric Holder’s right-hand men at the Justice Department, told Holder about the “Fast & Furious”-related programs in an August 19, 2009 memo.

    Of course, as I have previously written, Holder has on a number of occasions said under oath that he has no knowledge of “Fast & Furious” until well into 2010.

    With all the focus on this specific operation and Eric Holder, I would be remiss if I didn't mention that since day one, the Obama administration has been looking for a way to restrict our Second Amendment rights.

    “Fast & Furious” was concocted to be a public relations ploy intended to convince the American people that Congress had to pass new gun restrictions and the UN “Small Arms Treaty” through the U.S. Senate.
  • Undecided
    ☆The Rock☆ * AFCL* The Sheriff!!
    I am sure curruption riddled Bush adminstration as well!!
  • none 2012/07/10 17:59:38
    Holder is lying: gun-walking started on his watch.
    none
    +6
    Bush had a plan and it was a smart plan, electronic trackers on the weapons, the cooperation of the Mexican government and the plan was scrapped when some of the trackers weren't working right. Obama had no trackers and no cooperation with Mexico, just a stupid ill conceived plan that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of Mexicans and the death of Border Guard Brian Terry.
  • pamela 2012/07/10 16:34:30
    Holder is lying: gun-walking started on his watch.
    pamela
    +5
    Just like Obama he is, lying through his teeth. And when all else fails, Blame Bush ??!!!!!! This man is a communist and and sits on the Obama administration. This happened on the Obama watch and it will never fail, that when all else fails, in the election year for the democrats, blame the previous president and administration. This will continue folks until d-day ( election day ), so get a grip folks, it will be bumpy ride, because these democrats are running blind, because this administration is the extreme end of corruption. After all look who heads it and also look within. They are the ones taking down America.
  • mwg0735 2012/07/10 16:12:06
  • kevracer 2012/07/10 16:07:40
    Holder is telling the truth: gun-walking started with Bush.
    kevracer
    of course it did, but Obama gets the blame
  • Kane Fernau 2012/07/10 16:06:19
    Holder is lying: gun-walking started on his watch.
    Kane Fernau
    +5
    The Obama regime was trying to destroy our rights to protect ourselves,
  • 4570GOVT Kane Fe... 2012/08/17 19:31:50
    4570GOVT
    +1
    With all the focus on this specific operation and Eric Holder, I would be remiss if I didn't mention that since day one, the Obama administration has been looking for a way to restrict our Second Amendment rights.

    “Fast & Furious” was concocted to be a public relations ploy intended to convince the American people that Congress had to pass new gun restrictions and the UN “Small Arms Treaty” through the U.S. Senate.
  • Kane Fe... 4570GOVT 2012/08/17 20:24:05
    Kane Fernau
    +1
    Very true, now they obstruct justice and are perjurers.
  • Diane Spraggs Yates 2012/07/10 16:05:10
    Undecided
    Diane Spraggs Yates
    +2
    But the murder of agent Brian Terry during a December 2010 shootout in Arizona near the Mexican border.This is under Obama watch !!!!!
  • cmdrbnd007 2012/07/10 15:56:51
    Holder is lying: gun-walking started on his watch.
    cmdrbnd007
    +5
    It began and then ended under Bush. Holder and company picked it up again and ran with it on their own. However, where the Bush Administration saw that it wasn't going to work out and cancelled it. The Obama administration resurrected it and the blame falls all on them.
  • Risk 2012/07/10 14:38:30
    Holder is lying: gun-walking started on his watch.
    Risk

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